Dear Anand & Santhosh, It had a Great time in knowing things from this morning.. The things that I have learnt from Anand is "To Talk like Honey" and Santhosh you are little Naughty like Me.. Any way dont take it personally, sometimes we cross the limits. We will meet this Message Board Often... and exchange thoughts .. In right Perspective.. Time to go and Sleep.. See you Guys...
RE:THATS ALL FOLKS
by USN Kashyap on May 17, 2007 05:37 AM Permalink
Well. Ibrahim. I too tried reading translation of the K by the "Prime Minister" of Hyderabadi Nizam (I mean, translation of K by a blood red royal M). It is very confusing with many contradictory statements. I was even taken aback that God approves of slavery, slave trade etc., in the chapter on Spoils where during war Moslems can enslave non-moslems and even sell the saleable amongst them in slave markets for procuring more horses, swords etc., and also retain nubile ones for one's own enjoyment. It talks of the earth being flat and the sun everyday taking a dip in a muddy spring when it sets and wakes up the following day refreshed. It is not your mistake that you hold things which we all know as untruth as truth and very dear to your heart. In your opinion the rest of the world (I mean, the non-moslem one) might be equally "ignorant". Let it be so. Let us wallow in our own respective "ignorances". Is it going to make any difference to the way we have sunrise, sunset, moonrise, moonset, rain, shine, cold and wind?
RE:THATS ALL FOLKS
by Anand Iyer on May 17, 2007 08:36 PM Permalink
Santosh and all others interested to read the Quran(English translation) may visit http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
Why does not God send a Prophet once and for all and send the perfect knowledge ??
Tell me are you the same since your Birth...
1) First you WEAR LANGOT 2) Next wear a Trouser 3) Now you wear Shirt & Pant..
You are the same Man, but your requirments have changed as you grow...
Similarly the Evolution of World has different Stages, there are many Communities and Many Countries.. In different Time Period, whenever there is a depreciation in TRUTH, God sends HIS Messengers to Re-Vitalize... These Messengers are called Prophets, they are sent in all Parts of the World to tell the TRUTH.. But one other thing is Updation, we need to constantly Update... The JEWS never accepted JESUS as a Prophet.. The CHRISTIANS never accepted MOHAMMED as a Prophet... They stayed without Updations, which is not right...It is wise to know what GOD had told in the latest genuine updation.. A man cannot grow tall after the age of 25 similarly the updation has also stopeed after the revealation of Koran.. YOu are not going to Loose anything, just by reading Koran with a Positive Mind, but all of you are keen to find errors.. God is not at Loss, only you are the Loser,, when you have not Updated...
RE:FOR ANAND
by Anand Iyer on May 16, 2007 08:00 PM Permalink
In fact, Ibrahim, only 6 months ago , I developed interest in religious Scriptures. I had read the Quran (three English translations with a positive mind). But experience was not good to be honest.
RE:FOR ANAND
by Anand Iyer on May 16, 2007 08:04 PM Permalink
U havenot read the full Quran. Don't merely memorize it. Read a translation in English or some other language u know. U will also find lot of things which no logical person like u can agree with or digest.
RE:FOR ANAND
by Ibrahim Sheik on May 16, 2007 08:10 PM Permalink
Dear Anandji, Please read the SURAS with Context, that is under what situation and background the Surah is offered to Human Beings.. Infact Koran is a small book and there are 10 big volumes of explanation for Koran... Please dont browse on a grass root level, understand the Context.. That will eliminate your Mis-conceptions..
RE:FOR ANAND
by Ibrahim Sheik on May 16, 2007 08:03 PM Permalink
Where do you Find contradictions, even I am reading all the Scriptures Bible, Vedas and Koran.. I dont find anything deviant... If you have any specific points in Koran.. Please do Post.. I will read and discuss with scholars.. and let you Know...
RE:RE:FOR ANAND
by Anand Iyer on May 16, 2007 08:05 PM Permalink
Right Ibrahim, I have got my several queries noted. It will take time for me to put them together. May be by Saturday, I should be able to post many if not all of them.
RE:RE:RE:FOR ANAND
by Anand Iyer on May 16, 2007 08:08 PM Permalink
In any case, u havenot replied to my today's query satisfactory. U correctly said u r not a Maulana to have everything memorised. So study caarefully and see if u can convincingly reply today's query. Good Night.
RE:FOR ANAND
by Pritish Nagaraj on May 17, 2007 08:57 AM Permalink
Just wondering !! - dint see any change in all three stages - all three are trying to cover up the gross body. Well to just summarize, human has exactly 4 1 needs Eating, Sleeping Mating, Defending ... additionally He has Spiritual consciousness ! through which the man is one step ahead of animal species.
RE:FOR ANAND
by Knight Knight on May 17, 2007 03:33 AM Permalink
it doesn't matter how great you portray Islam to be but the fact is that a man is known by his deeds and Muslims have proved themselves to be cold blooded, barbaric murderers and rapist.
Please sir we don't need updation since we all know what happened after last prophet arrived unleashed a wave of killers on whole planet in the name of God whom only he can see.
RE:FOR ANAND
by Ibrahim Sheik on May 17, 2007 07:38 PM Permalink
I dont need a recognition from you, if you understand the TRUTH only you are benefitted not me and not ALLAH... Wait and see...
RE:FOR ANAND
by Anand Iyer on May 18, 2007 10:40 AM Permalink
Dear Ibrahim, one of the pillars of your faith is that u have to belive that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger. U have to believe in both Allah as well as Muhammad. Believing in either Allah or Muhammad is not sufficient. WHY????
becoz from Allah-u get "A"(i.e.akar) from Muhammad-u get ma(makar shabd in sanskrit) and u(ukar shabd in Sanskrit). So only when u believe in both, u get A(akar sahbd from Allah), u(Ukar shabd from Muhammad) amd M(Makar shabd fromMuhammad). All this adds upto AuM=OM(hinduism).
See from another angle.Three mandatory concepts of Islam are : Allah Ummah(all believers equal irrespective of whether rich and poor-that is why u have joint namaaz, joint afsting, zakat and Haj) Muhammad
AUM(A from Allah, U from Ummah and M from Muhammad)=OM(hinduism)
Write "Om" in Devanagiri. Hold it against the mirror and u get 786 (in Deavnagiri)
Allama Iqbal said: "Merr-i-Arab(chief of Arabs) ko thandee hawa Aiyee Jahaan se Wohi mera watan hai Wohi mera watan hai(i.e India)"
RE:FOR ANAND
by Iyer on May 17, 2007 06:23 AM Permalink
You are right Knight. People will judge you based on your deeds. Koran might have excellent teachings. What is the use if its not followed by Muslims? Muslims refuse to think and happy to be backward. Yes, Islam is a backward religion. What is there to get updated? Its you Muslims should get updated instead of living in Stone Age.
RE:FOR ANAND
by Anand Iyer on May 17, 2007 11:01 AM Permalink
Well said Knight Knight. Muslims or for that matter any community will be judged by their actions. That is exactly what "Towelians", a very progressive group of Pakistani youngsters also say in their blog. Unfortunately, media does not gives coverage to such progressive elements.
Dear Anand Islam is indeed a UNIVERSAL RELIGION for all Human Beings...
1) Before answering to your question, answer mine, if Hinduism is a Universal Religion, why no Avatar is born outside India ??? All your 330 Million Gods, Born, Lived and Died in India.. Do you mean to say that Hinduism is limited to the Borders of India ?? If it is true then why Vishnu is called Jagannath....
2) Now the Direct answer, it is clearly mentioned in the Koran that, there are Prophets send for all Civilizations to tell the Message of One God to every corner of the Globe..
3) Muslim Priests beleive that there are 1,42,000 Prophets till date send to various parts of the World for telling the Message to People..
4) Some Schools of Islam beleive that Shri Ram, Krishna are the Prophets of One God.. and they put forward the Truth, but People like you have Misinterpreted Vedas and started beleiving in the Creations and Forgeting about the Creator..
Hope it answers, if you have more doubts let us debate, I am fully loaded to deleiver...
RE:ATTENTION ANAND...
by Ibrahim Sheik on May 16, 2007 07:36 PM Permalink
Dear Santhosh, Dont confuse between a Creator and His Creations... According to the Vedas, the God is One and He has no Form....
Read the Vedas
It is mentioned in Bhagavad Gita He who knows Me as the unborn, as the beginning-less, as the Supreme Lord of all the worlds. (Bhagwad Geeta 10:3)
YAJURVEDA Vedas are the most sacred amongst all the Hindu Scriptures. There are principally 4 Vedas: Rig Ved, Yajur Ved, Sam Ved, and Atharva Ved.
i. Yajurveda Chapter 32, Verse 3
It is mentioned in Yajurveda na tasya pratima asti There is no image of Him
RE:RE:RE:ATTENTION ANAND...
by Knight Knight on May 17, 2007 03:23 AM Permalink
You idiot it doesn't matter who is right because those who have written these books or believe in it doesn't kill each other to prove their point.
It is the Muslims who kill non-muslims to prove their point, need 28 books to understand a single book Quran.
RE:ATTENTION ANAND...
by Anand Iyer on May 16, 2007 07:39 PM Permalink
1.About the fourth point-let mme have details. quite an intersting point u have told me. 2.Your first point has no meaning. It can be equally asked why Muhammad and all Caliphs of Islam were born only in Arabia and not other parts of the world. The Indian religious books do not contain any verses like the ones in Quran which I pointed out today morning. In fact vedas say "Sarve janakha sukhino bhavantu" and "vasudaiva kutumbakam". U can see that recently Us State senate satrted with Rig Veda prayers. That is sufficient to speak about universalism of hindu religion. 3)Regarding second and third points-tell me why does not God send a Prophet once and for all and send the perfect knowledge which is true for all times to come? Why he keeps on sending so many Prophets? Now why does he need to take "the revealation to a Prophet" route instaed of better foolproof methods? In fact, this Prophet concept is a political concept. Both Moses and Muhammad used it for political purposes. See what Anwar Sheikh writes in www.Islam-watch.org Learn to read viewpoints contrary to your own and evaluate them. God has also given u reasoning. Use it.
If u carefully go through all scriptures of all religions, u will find lot of things which indicate that they r not Divine Revealations. So the best approch is that everyone take good things from all scriptures, implement them and be done with it. Don't quarrel among one another that mine is the perfect religion. See websites http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/www.skepticsannotatedquran.com. Now all religious books r coming under scanner of rationalists. Visit also www.mukto-mona.com Study these contrary opinions.
RE:ATTENTION ANAND...
by Knight Knight on May 17, 2007 03:10 AM Permalink
There was time when accross the world human used to roam around as tribes fighting for their survival with mother nature and wondering is there anyone who controls them and eveything else. They wondered who has created them or all the other things on planet. Then they started worshipping anything or everything which they thought affected their lives. They became Pagans.
Now, a gentleman named "Jesus" was born and he got confused with praying to so many gods and declared himself as Son of a solo universal God and asked his followers to spread the good news.
Now, another gentleman born in a pagan family and named Mohammad was born. He also like Jesus was born in a world where freedom to pactice religion of ones choice existed.
He heard the good news and wanted some modification because of the Arabic(i.e. Barbaric) culture he grew up in. When he tried to spread his own version of good news(like christians), he was ridiculed and might have been kicked in the ass.
So he thought that lets spread it Arab way and one fine day said that Angel Gabriel has told him to spread Islam with a Sword meaning who so ever doesn't believe in his story should be killed, his wives and children be taken as slaves as it is legitimate according to God.
And so started the Religion of Islam, spread by killers,perverts and daciots because they saw a very good oppurtunity to loot people because Islam gave them the liberty to fullfil all of their criminal apetite.
These people have wreacked havoc everywhere they went and still are shameless enough to say that their religion stands for peace and try to find faults in other religion.
RE:RE:ATTENTION ANAND...
by Ibrahim Sheik on May 16, 2007 07:36 PM Permalink
Loaded with TRUTH which is bitter for Hypocrites and Sweet for the Beleivers...
RE:ATTENTION ANAND...
by Ibrahim Sheik on May 16, 2007 07:53 PM Permalink
Laugh My dear, I am not De-motivated... I am just Propogating the TRUTH.. I am just doing my Duty...
RE:ATTENTION ANAND...
by USN Kashyap on May 17, 2007 06:26 PM Permalink
Ibrahim, what you believe-in is Loaded with blood and gore, rape and plunder, of course, spread over 14 centuries, ever since it was born. Sands of arabia it was born-in, sands of arabia it would be burried in-to. In the meantime the price that the presentday Mo's will be paying for the sins of their ancestors would be terrible, terrible indeed. You are a totally brainwashed moron like any of those suicide bombers of 911. You are convinced that you would be rewarded with 72 virgins and 20 young boys in your jannat when you die in the cause of 'slam. You have been drugged totally. There appears to be pleasure in your world of make-believe, in your world of hallucination, like being in a voodoo trance. All your life your ears have been dinned with the message of MNO being God and EFG is His despatchrider. You guys are sickening even when you serve the cause of being a specimen of what one should not ever be. God knows how many more innocent humanbeings you will be killing and how many it would take to satiate your hunger for killing the innocents.
According to a recent report by the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) up to 50 million girls and women are missing from India' s population as a result of systematic gender discrimination in India. In most countries in the world, there are approximately 105 female births for every 100 males. In India, there are less than 93 women for every 100 men in the population. The accepted reason for such a disparity is the practice of female infanticide in India, prompted by the existence of a dowry system which requires the family to pay out a great deal of money when a female child is married. For a poor family, the birth of a girl child can signal the beginning of financial ruin and extreme hardship.
However this anti-female bias is by no means limited to poor families. Much of the discrimination is to do with cultural beliefs and social norms. These norms themselves must be challenged if this practice is to stop.
Diagnostic teams with ultrasound scanners which detect the sex of a child advertise with catchlines such as spend 600 rupees now and save 50,000 rupees later.
The implication is that by avoiding a girl, a family will avoid paying a large dowry on the marriage of her daughter. According to UNICEF, the problem is getting worse as scientific methods of detecting the sex of a baby and of performing abortions are improving.
These methods are becoming increasing available in rural areas of India, fuelling fears that the trend towards the abortion of female foetuses is on the increase
RE:INFANTICIDE
by Anand Iyer on May 17, 2007 11:38 AM Permalink
Dear Ibrahim, please show me any Hindu scripture in which female foeticide has been permitted. Thie Hindu scriptures only ask hindus to beget a son so that his family line can be continued. No hindu scripture ever sacnctions female foeticide.In fact, amrrying off a daughter is said to confer merits(punya) of performing big Yagnyas.
This female foeticide is clearly a recent phenomenon. Without modern technology, it is impossible to know whether foetus is male of female. Such technology was unavailable in ancient times. So, this is abuse of modern technology. The motivation is clearly economic-as u yourself point out."The implication is that by avoiding a girl, a family will avoid paying a large dowry on the marriage of her daughter". There r hindu and even muslim families who have restricted themseves to ine daughter only and did not go in for a scond child.
It is a societal evil having nothing to do with religion.
RE:RE:Rediff moderators. Note Ibrahim's statement.
by Ibrahim Sheik on May 16, 2007 06:43 PM Permalink
I can See your Panic While Replying and I know Telepathy...
RE:RE:RE:Rediff moderators. Note Ibrahim's statement.
by Santosh Ramkrishnan on May 16, 2007 06:46 PM Permalink
DONT TELL ME THAT YOU HAVE PUT YOUR FINGER IN YOUR MOUTH INSTEAD OF NOSE
RE:RE:Rediff moderators. Note Ibrahim's statement.
by USN Kashyap on May 17, 2007 06:41 PM Permalink
"Panic" is onething which the Hindu is unaware of. He is not scared of death. He welcomes death as a form of birth. Ever since 'slam entered the shores of india some 10 centuries back, it is one of continuing struggle against the civilization of the barbaric for the locals against the imported. Continents were drowned in your message of terror, but India stood its ground. Even in 1947 when the country was partitioned on religious lines, 'slamic population was only 15percent. Generation after generation of hindus sacrified their lives in saving humanity in this part of the world from tyranny and slavery so much so when your last emperor bahadurshah zafar died he did not even get two yards of land in this ancestral empire of his. He lies transported in burma. "Na kisi ke ankh ka noor hoon..." is his pathetic prayer before he died. The wages of sin (of his ancestors) was indeed terrible and he paid that whether he liked it or not or whatever his belief promised him or not. The wages for the rest of the followers of barbarism is just round the corner. 911 is just the beginning.... Panic must be your eternal companion
RE:Rediff moderators. Note Ibrahim's statement.
by Gharpure, Ravindra S on May 16, 2007 07:14 PM Permalink
Can someone enlighten me as to how does this discussion relate to the news article !!
RE:Rediff moderators. Note Ibrahim's statement.
by Ibrahim Sheik on May 16, 2007 07:27 PM Permalink
Ravindra JOIN the PARTY, WE are debating since the Morning.. And Anand and Santhosh, are blinking to handle me...
RE:Rediff moderators. Note Ibrahim's statement.
by Santosh Vasthari on May 17, 2007 11:58 AM Permalink
Hello Ibrahim, Anand and Santosh,
I am surprised at the way you guys are discussing religion. None of you have no idea what religion is. Religion is something that was brought into effect to make sure people lived like humans and animals. Humans have been endowed with a brain which works not just for food and sex. It goes beyond that but the most important remains the above two. Religion was brought in an age when there was no information. There were some intellects who for their own selsish needs and some for the good of the people introduced this thing called religion. Has anyone thought why there are no more religions coming into existence in the last 100-150 years. Because there is a lot of contact between people and some have accepted the others and others have sought to denigrate the others. Grow up guys religion is to keep people together and not to divide them. Religious beliefs have been based on the existing information and situations.
2) Have got courage and Determination to bring up 6 Children.. But you guys perceive Children as a Burden...
3) Our lives are in Danger, but still Happy..
The only difference, is Hindus perceive this Earthly Life as every thing.. which is not true.. But a Muslim is very well aware of the Fact that this Earthly Life is just like a Journey, it will finish when the Destination comes... Be OPTIMISTIC guys, learn from us...
RE:Dont be Pessimistic
by Ibrahim Sheik on May 16, 2007 06:29 PM Permalink
You dont Multiply Bcoz you dont have CONFIDENCE to Bring up Children...Pessimistic...
RE:Dont be Pessimistic
by Ibrahim Sheik on May 16, 2007 06:37 PM Permalink
Nobody is asking you Money for Maintaining 6 Children, Nor you are going to donate Money.. Then why are you Worried....
RE:Dont be Pessimistic
by Anand Iyer on May 16, 2007 06:33 PM Permalink
Santosh. Just a while ago, u called Ibrahim a "devil". Now see he has hionestly accepted something that other muslims -no I am sorry our secular politicians and Rediff Modeartors keep denying.
RE:Dont be Pessimistic
by Anand Iyer on May 16, 2007 07:15 PM Permalink
Not only huindus preceive Earthly life as everything. Read Mirza Ghalib the famous poet: "Jannat ki hakikat to ham jaaante his hai lekin dil behalane ke liye Ghalib ye khayal accha hai." Therefore, Ghalib attaches importance to earthly life. Who has seen afterlife? We r there for a short time,. In this short time practice pure thoughts, wors and deeds. make yourself happy. make others happy. This earth will be a jannat(heaven).
RE:AN APPEAL TO ALL FREINDS
by Ibrahim Sheik on May 16, 2007 06:23 PM Permalink
If you dont know ANSWERS means Pack the Bags and go Home.... And if you ready stay here, we will debate for 10 days....I am ready, are you...
RE:AN APPEAL TO ALL FREINDS
by Ibrahim Sheik on May 16, 2007 06:29 PM Permalink
Dont you know English, I have answered all of your quesions.. Are you really laughing,, I know that there are ANTS IN YOUR PANTS....
U have been posting since morning. But u still have not been able to refute the point I made in the morning. I have quouted three verses from Quran to support what I say. U have not quoted a single verse to support your view point. First go home. Study the Quran thoroughly. First give me Solid facts to disprove my point made in morning,. Then I will discuss further religion with u.
RE:Dear Ibrahim
by Ibrahim Sheik on May 16, 2007 06:20 PM Permalink
Dear Anand You are reading my Posts since the Morning and Dont have answers to my Questions.. Even If I quote VEDAS you are not ready to listen... Only God can save you Child
RE:Dear Ibrahim
by Anand Iyer on May 16, 2007 06:59 PM Permalink
Your questions r all divergent from the maion point. Whether Arabic Quran was meant for Arabs or for the whole world???? First u clear this point with solid facts. We can debate vedas also. No problem. But first things first. Clear what is pending under your consideartion. Take time-no problem.
RE:Dear Ibrahim
by Ibrahim Sheik on May 16, 2007 07:14 PM Permalink
1) Before answering to your question, answer mine, if Hinduism is a Universal Religion, why no Avatar is born outside India ??? All your 330 Million Gods, Born, Lived and Died in India.. Do you mean to say that Hinduism is limited to the Borders of India ?? If it is true then why Vishnu is called Jagannath....
2) Now the Direct answer, it is clearly mentioned in the Koran that, there are Prophets send for all Civilizations to tell the Message of One God to every corner of the Globe..
3) Muslim Priests beleive that there are 1,42,000 Prophets till date send to various parts of the World for telling the Message to People..
4) Some Schools of Islam beleive that Shri Ram, Krishna are the Prophets of One God.. and they put forward the Truth, but People like you have Misinterpreted Vedas and started beleiving in the Creations and Forgeting about the Creator..
Hope it answers, if you have more doubts let us debate, I am fully loaded to deleiver...
