the tone of the article sound like the author is sympathetic to the Talibans! with words like 'well-motivated,charismatic, successfully maintained morale?' is this covert supprt for these extremists or just providing readers with information?
Dear Ibrahim, one of the pillars of your faith is that u have to belive that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger. U have to believe in both Allah as well as Muhammad. Believing in either Allah or Muhammad is not sufficient. WHY????
becoz from Allah-u get "A"(i.e.akar) from Muhammad-u get ma(makar shabd in sanskrit) and u(ukar shabd in Sanskrit). So only when u believe in both, u get A(akar sahbd from Allah), u(Ukar shabd from Muhammad) amd M(Makar shabd fromMuhammad). All this adds upto AuM=OM(hinduism).
See from another angle.Three mandatory concepts of Islam are : Allah Ummah(all believers equal irrespective of whether rich and poor-that is why u have joint namaaz, joint afsting, zakat and Haj) Muhammad
AUM(A from Allah, U from Ummah and M from Muhammad)=OM(hinduism)
Write "Om" in Devanagiri. Hold it against the mirror and u get 786 (in Deavnagiri)
Allama Iqbal said: "Merr-i-Arab(chief of Arabs) ko thandee hawa Aiyee Jahaan se Wohi mera watan hai Wohi mera watan hai(i.e India)"
RE:Ibrahim brother read this.
by Anand Iyer on May 18, 2007 10:46 AM Permalink
So, it is clear that all muslims believe in Om and that God is nothing but Om as mentioned in Gita.
RE:RE:Ibrahim brother read this.
by Anand Iyer on May 18, 2007 10:53 AM Permalink
So, I have a shortcut in hinduism to all that u belive and utter in your kalima-just say Om. I have a short and direct route.
We find that actions done by hindus associated with VHP gets media coverage.At the same time, the hindus opposing VHP also gets equal coverage. That is why no one accuses hindus of terrorism. Fingers are pointed only at VHP. But I observe that only extremist Jehadis get media coverage. There is a vibrant liberal opinion emerging amongst muslims. These liberals question Islam. They question the Quran. They critically subject Islam to analysis. Some of these people even quit the faith becoz they disagree. Others remain within the faith and demand reforms. The rediff correspondents should take some trouble to search the web. They will come across lot of liberalist muslim opinion and also opinions of ex-muslims. Giving coverage to these opinions will ensure that all muslims are not tarred with the same brush. A lot of hate messages posted agianst muslims will then cease and this world will becomae a sane place. Give more publicity to liberals than terrorists and Imams issuing fatwas on Sania Mirza.
RE:Rediff-give coverage to muslim reformers also
by Pritish Nagaraj on May 17, 2007 08:57 PM Permalink
Well this quote --- "by Anand Iyer on May 16, 2007 11:45 AM it is open for a hindu to accept parts of scriptures which he finds reaonable and reject the rest. Is a muslim allowed to do likewise in case of Quran???? If so, Ibrahim, quote Sura and AYAT. " This quote by you Mr Iyer, it's totally your personal view, dont speak on behalf of the Vedas, that's I'm sorry to say, is very Idiotic of you !!, english meaning for Idiot is that you do not understand, so no offense meant !! Well in the context of what you interpreted let me clear how it is, if you pickup a verse which makes sense to you and 'reject the rest', its shallowness of your intelligence!!
Well the 'rest' which is not making 'sense' to you only means that you have to 'GROW UP' to comprehend them, and not 'reject' them,... sorry I'm kinda of laughing, coz lot of your posts sounded like u r learned and suddenly this !! .. easy :)
RE:Rediff-give coverage to muslim reformers also
by Anand Iyer on May 17, 2007 09:16 PM Permalink
Dear Pritish.
Whatever I see is backed by scriptural injunctions. Please read chapter no.18, verse no.63 of Bhagavad Geeta. The Lord clearly says: "Deeply ponder over what I have revealed unto u and then do as u please." (Vimrushaitadsheshena Yathaichasi tath kuru).
Clearly he says that even divine revealations should not be bilndly believed and acted upon. What this means? It is a kind of wonderful theology.I call it rationalist theology. 1.God has created reason. 2.If God did not want man to exercise reason and blindly believe his revelations, then he would not have given him reason. 3.God cannot go against his own laws. He is bound by them. If he says blindly believe me, he is violating his own laws. 4.Therefore, free human will supercedes divine revealation. If by applying my resaon, I find something illogical in divine scriptures, I can reject them. 5.Read Bhagvad Gita from cover to cover. The relation between God and Man is decribed as "Piteava Putasya Sakheva sakhyuhu Priyapriyarhasi deva na sodum". Arjuna asks the Lord to forgive him as a father would forgive his son, as a friend would forgive another and lovers would forgive each other. Krishna himself calls Arjuan his dear friend. 6. Geeta as a theology rejects the concept that man is slave of God and man has been born to worship him. SO ALL MEN ARE FREE AND NOT SLAVES OF EVEN GOD. IF HE HAD TO BE GOD'S SLAVE, GOD WOULD NOT HAVE GIVEN HIM "REASON".
I was shocked out of my senses when I read Gita the first time with English translation (Gorakhpur Press). I cannot cover more here. This Gita was the inspiration of Einstein and Oppenheimer. We hindus confined Gita to Puja room and implemented Manu Smriti and taht is why we were plundered and beaten by invaders. I feel set free from bondage of ignorance by reading it.
RE:Rediff-give coverage to muslim reformers also
by Lakshmanan Ramaswamy on May 17, 2007 09:22 PM Permalink
Chapter 18 Verse 63 "Having reflected well over what is said, then you may do what you like" The question is have you reflected well enough? or Is your reflection superficial?
RE:RE:Rediff-give coverage to muslim reformers also
by Pritish Nagaraj on May 17, 2007 09:33 PM Permalink
Ofcourse dear, I said exactly that, "Ponder over..." and "Ponder over..." and repatedly "Ponder over...", until you understand and do not simply reject since you cannot reason them at this moment of your consciousness, you might be in need of further enlightenment to understand it, Well Krsna never said simply accept anything!! Bhakti not based on firm foundation of knowledge is vulnerable. Ofcourse He also said one last thing !! ..."Sarva Dharmaan Parityajya Mama ekam Sharanam Vraja, Aham Tvam Sarva Papebhyo Mokhshaishyami Mashucha", that was because after all the preaching by the Supreme Lord, Arjuna kept saying I'm still not convinced, remember Arjuna was not an ordinary mortal, he was a Jnyana Sambhuta, he was Veda Parangatha, Even at that state of knoweldge he said - I'm not at peace !! that's why the above quote from the Lord !. Which means to say that, dont waste your time in all the knowledge stuff since they all lead to Me, so simply take the path of Bhakthi Yoga, meaning simply surrender yourself to the Lord with complete Faith in only Him and nothing Else!!, ofcourse He never has mentioned it as an Obligation, it is upto the individual!, ofcourse He has mentioned what you will get if you follow a particular Path !, and everything will lead to Him ! as all the rivers merge into the great Ocean !! hope that Clarifies !!
RE:Rediff-give coverage to muslim reformers also
by Anand Iyer on May 18, 2007 10:13 AM Permalink
No. U and Lakshmanan Sir have both misunderstood me. Rather, i have not made myself clear. I am an advocate of neither blind rejection nor of blind acceptance. That exactly is the theme of verse no. 63 of Chapter 18.
If u study Gita, the rationalist content (climaxed by verse no.63) in it is a shocker becz it is supposed to be a religious book. Read the concepts of Yagna in it . Read the concept of austerities in it. Read the things about personality development that a person should achieve in order to undertake his duties (prescribed actions) with a disciplined mind(sthitha pragnya). Read all that it has to say on himan psychology -how anger is caused, how desires r aroused. Read what it has to say on SPIRITUAL and RITUAL. It says Ritualism is not necessarily Spiritualism- a thing that inspired later authorities of all hues-theosophists as well as rationalists.
Also note what it says about action. It shows that the action has a controllable component and an uncontrollable one. The controllable part is performing what u have to with a disciplined mind. HERE WE R THROUGH WITH THE RATIONAL COMPONENT WHICH IS ALMOST 80% with which even atheists will have not much to quarrel about. Now how to deal with the uncontrollable part-the results or fruits of action. If your mind dwells on them, then it kills u. So, surrender completely yourself to him in this matter as he asid or find your own way to handle that if u think u r smart enough.
The great point that he has made in verse no.63 is missed by all. He challenges humanity to see if they have any better way. Becoz he is so sure of the logicality of what he has advised that he knows that humanity will wander all they want and everywhere they want but ultimately they will have to come to his way.
It is these features that has made Gita the inspiration of Great scientists and intellectuals like Einstein, Oppenheimer, Adolus Huxley, R.W. Emerson etc.
If U read Gita and implement it, that is sufficient. If u learn all other scriptures but don't read Gita, one is still nowhere.
IN OTHER WORDS A GOOD RELIGIOUS SCRIPTURE=ONE THAT COMMENDS TO REASON PLUS RECOMMENDATORY. GITA SATISFIES THESE.
A BAD SCRIPTURE=CANNOT STAND TO REASOM PLUS MANDATORY. It is time that we get rid of our national pastime on Pakistan-bashing and see the rationalist trends emerging there and alsewhere (Iran/bangladesh etc.) and what views they have towards a particular scripture which is mandatory and claimed to be perfect. They ask why a perfect thing should be mandatory and blindly accepted? If it is perfect, should it not appeal to reason and logic? Search the net and u will find these views.
RE:RE:Rediff-give coverage to muslim reformers also
by Pritish Nagaraj on May 18, 2007 08:13 PM Permalink
Yes Mr Iyer, very well said on that, totally agree, you are right, you did not express yourself in your words, now I do understand
RE:Rediff-give coverage to muslim reformers also
by Anand Iyer on May 18, 2007 08:25 PM Permalink
Nice of u Pritish to respond and encourage me in my pursuit of truth and knowledge. I would refer u to slokas nos.42-44 of Chapter 2 of the Bhagvad Gita. There Lord Krishna tells humanity to Beware of those who use flowery speech, quoting the Vedas all the time and asking u to do this ritual and that ritual and saying that u will attain heavens.
Such verses open up the mind like anything.
Read any books on economics-It will tell u that India's rural poor consisting of farmers spend a lot on religious ceremonies-beyond their financial capacity even borrowing at hefty rates from moneylenders. Just see what kind of possibilities do these vereses open up to solve the rural indebtedness problems of our farmers.
RE:Rediff-give coverage to muslim reformers also
by Pritish Nagaraj on May 18, 2007 09:10 PM Permalink
pleased to see u on the persuit of knowledge, out of my experience, just one word of advice, always be humble like a blade of grass when u r imbibing the Word of the Lord, since they are non different than the Lord Himself !!, It is spiritual knowledge, It is Revealed by Lord, and not Earned by the mortal, hence the humility is very much required! All the very best, may the Most Beautiful Lord who enjoys eating the peels of banana served by his cowherd friends in Bliss,.... bless you.
Well my dear Ibrahim, I'm pleased abt whatever you know of the Vedas. Your quote saying God has no form is True, however the fact that He has Form is also true. Well without quoting any facts, simply by common sense of the word ALMIGHTY - meaning ABSOLUTE is ALL aspects, how can we mortals with out speculative mind which is full of ignorance and illusion limit Him to being formless !!
OK, now coming to the facts, Yes one should not believe in anything unless not proven on the basis of Shaastra/scriptures. Just the way you quoted the Veda on Supreme Lord being formless I can quote the Vedas which mention the Form of the Lord. Tell me would you take it ?? . Ok just one simple fact on the Veda, there is only One Veda, which is Perfect knowledge which was never born, and hence will never seize to exist !, and this Absulute knoweldge was described in four Parts by Shri Krishna Dwaipayana Vyas, for the understanding of the mortals, since it was known that the as the Yugas progress the human being will become more and more Spiritually Impotent. And even after scripting these, he did not feel the Bliss, and hence was suggested by his Guru - Shri Narada Muni, to write on the Pastimes of the Lord. Thus he scripted Shrimad Bhagawatam, and which is based totally on different Forms of the Lord, and at the end of Shrimad Bhagawatam, Shri Vyas says, - this is the jist of all the Vedas !!.
I still owe you the verses from the Vedas on the Form of Lord, if you are interested though!!
