Why are you glorifying this dead people? Aren't these the people who enslaved us, looted our resources? Aren't these the graves of the people who divided us, made us fight among ourselves, and also with their enemies elsewhere in the world? Aren't these the people who plundered and stole our wealth and resources. And, aren't these the graves of the people who, in the name of giving us the independence, gave us the problems that haunt us even now?
These people deserve to be forgotten, defaced and defiled from this place. Why are we even remembering them now?
Next thing rediff probably would do is send off Sheela Bhatt to talk to descendants of Gen. Dyer (if there are any) and show pictures of his grave.
If you really want to remember 1857, do so by telling me more about Jhansi Ki Rani. I bet scores of people don't even have a clue where in India Jhansi is. And here your showing me pictures of dead Brits' graves (who should have been dead to begin with) who killed thousand of my Countrymen. Bravo! Bravo!
RE:Why this glorification?
by Pradeep Ramakrishna on May 09, 2007 11:15 AM Permalink
Gagan, You will see the tombs of the dead british because they were the rulers at that time. The same can be said about the various tombs around delhi. They are reminding us who ruled us at that time. Coming to 1857, the movement failed because of the crude differences that exists in our society, which the british used against us. If the 1857 struggle had succeeded, it is difficult to imagine how we would have been today. Probably we would have been an islamic country. I feel that to keep us together, somebody should have brought everybody under one umbrella and it was possible only for the british. As I said elsewhere, if you want to remove these tombs, you should also start thinking of removing all the other tombs in our country(for eg Taj mahal). But is this the answer for the burning problems that face us today?
Great reply Pradeep. How true. Very few understand the India we have today won't have existed had it not been for events that led to our independence in 1947. A success in 1857 would have led to chaos and maybe we would still have been a region with hundreds for rulers fighting among themselves and most of India under islamic rule. Now India has a great opportunity to be a great nation of Hindu, Muslims, Sikhs and others living together. We should appreciate what we have today and we should built on the economic achievement of last 15 years to become a peaceful and developed country as early as we can.
RE:can
by karthik subramani on May 09, 2007 03:19 PM Permalink
Indian history books are biased. they only glorify only north indians. when Jhansi rani is glorified other queens like rani chennama of karnataka or rani mangamma of tamilnadu are ignored. all these north indian before pointing fingers on others, should learn about vellore mutiny which happened in 1803 in tamilnadu & sanyasin revolution happenned erstwhere in bengal. why doesn't the north indians learn abt these things. to say in short north indians were so cowardly dumb that they starting resisting only after 50 years when rest of india was already boiling. so shame of these northies
RE:can
by manoj kumar on May 09, 2007 03:51 PM Permalink
Mr Kkarthik, Dont compare vallore mutiny with 1857 ...Vellore mutiny was just a day fight and happened in one fort where as 1857 one lasted months and fought almost in full north India. So dont harp on anything ...Dont compare needle and sword. Yes even during 47 it was south India who was majorly invloved in Independence sturggle ...come on ..i accept you people( tamil) are supporting tamil elam liberation .
RE:RE:can
by James Rediff Moderator Khan on May 09, 2007 11:28 PM Permalink
You Guys are sick...is this a matter for contention?? we Indians were all united in the Freedom struggle..the point of only N.India participating in 1857 was...because of the poor communication systems back then and also the different Ruler prevailing in S.India (S.India was mostly under Nizams then)...N.India was the direct victim of the Enfield bullets of the British which expalins the sudden reaction of them...and before the struggle could reach the S.India, it was subsided by the British...so it was not N.India vs S.India..but India vs British..please dont insult our freedom fighters...by bringing regionalism into this... !!Jai Hind!!
RE:can
by Megellan myself on May 09, 2007 10:34 AM Permalink
I agree.. many northers scrificed.. and achieved what? Freedom was a scrap thrown to us by our British masters, becasue they could no longer afford us.
RE:can
by Prasad TS on May 09, 2007 02:30 PM Permalink
Alluri Sita Rama Raju (Andhra Pradesh), Veera Pandya in Tamil Nadu) are examples who laid down their lives in fighting white people. Don't bring North-South dispute not only in this but also in other issues as well. First you are an Indian, then only you're a Tamilian, Keralite or from Haryana.
By razing a cemetry, will we be able to change our history? Let it be. India is a country that shows respect for its vistors, what better can be than caring for their dead? Don't forget that the brits gave India our railways, unified the country and above all, English which is the sole reason why we have so much IT & ITES jobs.
As long as there would be people who will think they are superior to their fellow men and there would be people who will value their freedom more than their lives there shall be these monuments and tokens of their struggle. The Sepoy Mutiny or better known as the First Battle of Independence in India is another example of this struggle when one group of people decided that enough is enough and they need to get back their independence from the tyranny and oppression of a foreign ruler. What happened 150 years ago is the what lead to the independence of the country 90 years later. Today after 60 years of our independence young people are slowly forgetting the price paid the torture and oppression and struggled that our ancestors faced to give us what we are enjoying now. We need to remind them of their sacrifices and infuse patriotism in their blood.
What about the un-named Indians tied to british canons and blow to pieces ? I hope taking care of the cemetry is not going to earn Robert X an OBE from the Queen.
while many people in our country dont have the houses to live, why is the govt. trying to keep this cemetry alive!? Lakhs of indian people died during and after the 1857 struggle, i wonder if there is even one museum in their memory, equal to the size of this cemetry!
RE:Angrez chale gaye, kabre yahin chhod gaye!
by Warrior on May 09, 2007 09:43 AM Permalink
Well said umesh...your views are Gandhian type. this type of thoughts should be seeded in our younger generation so there raises a mankind with no violence.
RE:Angrez chale gaye, kabre yahin chhod gaye!
by sanjay tal on May 09, 2007 09:54 AM Permalink
Whats wrong with umesh scaria & Warrior, cant they read or are they british. They is ignorant of the fact that the grave was of british and british soldiers. Why would he want to take his siblings to show the british dead. (i can understand if it was the grave of indians who opposed the british)
RE:Angrez chale gaye, kabre yahin chhod gaye!
by umesh scaria k on May 09, 2007 10:16 AM Permalink
For the same reason you will take your kids to show tajmahal...again a tomb! History...we have a rich heritage of glorious past,struggle,heritage...etc...If we are to call ourself a great civilization...we need to keep our memories alive...be it good or bad!
RE:Angrez chale gaye, kabre yahin chhod gaye!
by Pradeep Ramakrishna on May 09, 2007 10:52 AM Permalink
Umesh, you are absolutely right. Do we go ahead and demolish Taj Mahal since the structure under taj was infact a shiva temple - Tejo mahalaya. Lets accept the fact that our country, was plundered, battered and beaten, people killed, convereted for the past 1000 years. It is only because the british formed a colony that we are today united as a country. The burning problems today are not because of the british. It is because of the division that exists within ourselves. Only if we forget the past and move on, can our country really prosper.
RE:Angrez chale gaye, kabre yahin chhod gaye!
by Vijay Raghavan on May 09, 2007 10:10 AM Permalink
It is becuase of the British, a person from North India like you and a person like myself from South are proudly call ourselves as Indians.
the 1857 Uprising and Mutiny was a good. But, it was also good in the perspective of India, that movement had failed. Had it been a sucessful, sure India would have gone back to the Moghul Rulers and your generations would have either forcely converted to Islam or Killed or you would have found your women in the Mussalman's herom as sexual slaves.
In addition, to that between 1857-1947, the British had developed the Indian Infrastructure like anything. Like our Railways, Judiciary and the revenue systems and Our Parlimentry Democracy etc., Without their rule India would have gone to digs.
so, Kinldy go thru the facts before being so emotinal.
RE:Angrez chale gaye, kabre yahin chhod gaye!
by Anoop Katiyar on May 13, 2007 07:46 AM Permalink
Mr Raghavan, It is not because of British, that a person like me and you call ourselves Indian.Its because Iron Man Sardar Vallabh Bhai Patel! He is the responsible for creating India out of hundreds of "Riyasats". And if you still feel british are, go read the history and formation of India. As far as Moghul Rulers are concerned, yes some of them did atrocities, but its because people and indian kings of small 'riyasats' weren't united under a single flag.And that was also the sole reason of Moghul entering India. About addition in infrastructure, i dont think rail engines were invented before british raj. I dont think if there had been any other ruler, we would not have present railways. Judiciary existed in India from the ancient times, even at the grassroot levels, today we call panchayat. Revenue system also existed since ancient times, otherwise how would have Kings got all the money if their is no source of income.Parliament and Democracy - how much power did parliament and people elected through democratic means had at the time of britishers? If it was so, then there was no need of freedom. And Finally, i'm not a emotional guy as you are! I dont agree with everything i hear and read.. rationalism do exist in me!
RE:Angrez chale gaye, kabre yahin chhod gaye!
by Signs on May 09, 2007 10:38 AM Permalink
Vijay, You are right, Whatever the bad things British done to India, still this was the greatest help. British formed all small small independent countries together to make India. India still have a good relation with British and this is not the case with other ex-colonies of British. So these all part of indian heritage and leave it for future generation also.
In case of land for poor there are more bigger places like lands holded by the ex-Kings of small countries like Gwalior and new-Kings like politicians.
RE:[object]
by arun dudani on May 09, 2007 03:05 PM Permalink
More than British, it were the Muslim invaders like Babar who plundered our country, temples, raped women, forced conversions and committed other atrocities. Before British, Hindus were slaves of Muslims in their own country. Comparatively British took much less, killed very few and were much more civilised and humane.
Some of the British actively helped Congress in freedom struggle and played instrumental role in activating humane laws, by and large left us to practice our own religion, setup industries, spread modern education, no discrimination in Government jobs and so on.
Can you tell the same about our Muslim rulers? British ruled us for 200-300 years but Muslims brutally opressed us for close to 600 years.
I would say that British essentially did unite India, gave us good infrastructure, modern education system and most importantly, freed us from Muslim rulers.
It was not best of the periods for India, but not the worse either. Better their graves than Muslim soldiers who were much more cruel.
RE:Angrez chale gaye, kabre yahin chhod gaye!
by umesh scaria k on May 09, 2007 09:30 AM Permalink
Leave the dead alone man !...they do no harm to you. By the way, you could take your kids to this place and say...son, here began the Struggle for Indian Independence!...and there lie the men who opposed it. Hope and pray that you will be able to show all these places to your kids and they to their kids. Else our younger generation will forget the meaning and value of Independence.
RE:Angrez chale gaye, kabre yahin chhod gaye!
by Injun Abhi on May 09, 2007 09:45 AM Permalink
Absolutely right Umesh. We cannot ignore our history, destroying such pieces of history would be nothing short of propaganda. Can we tear off pages of our history books which talks of our colonial past just because we do not like it? Remember that Raja Ram Mohan Roy's grave is lovingly maintained in the UK.
RE:Angrez chale gaye, kabre yahin chhod gaye!
by Gagan on May 09, 2007 10:34 AM Permalink
Umesh, thanks for preaching that I should be showing to my children, the tombs of the dead British, who over a period of 2-3 centuries looted and plundered the resources and the wealth of this great Nation, killed thousands and thousands of people, and worst of all, left behind burning problems which haunt and affect us even now. Well done! We need more people like you, the psuedos, with shallow thinking as deep as the sole of your shoes. Well done! Keep it up!
If I want to show my kids who opposed our Independence struggle, i will take the worlds map and point out UK. I don't have to preserve such signs of dead Brits to teach my kids about Independence struggle. What perverse thinking and ideology you have! Shame on you!
You remind me of our Prime-Moron Manmohan who told Brit press on his last visit there that British rule was good for India because it organized and united the india as a country.
RE:Angrez chale gaye, kabre yahin chhod gaye!
by inderjeet dandona on May 09, 2007 09:28 AM Permalink
You are absolutely correct, i completely support you. Why the hell cemetry for the britishers who ruled and spoiled india. And on top of it, if we visit their country they consider us as from a inferior race... what the hell! there should not be any cemetries and this place should be donated to the poor and needy people.
RE:RE:Angrez chale gaye, kabre yahin chhod gaye!
by Devanshu Jatana on May 09, 2007 09:40 AM Permalink
I agree with you you completely.. Well Said. Devanshu
RE:RE:Angrez chale gaye, kabre yahin chhod gaye!
by arun dudani on May 09, 2007 02:42 PM Permalink
Inderjeet,
Have you ever visited UK? I don't think so. I am here in UK and have never felt any sort of discrimination (and no looking down on us). Yes, there are exceptions anywhere but I would say that such instances here are exteremely rare (and zero compared to divisions and discriminations in India).
I am not gloryfying the Raj era, certainly British committed many atrocities and British are not at all proud of it (they are rather ashamed of their past).
Comparatively, Muslim rulers committed more atrocities, should we go on to exacting revenge from them? This would never stop mate.
That cemetry, those British soldiers are an important past of history, reminders to us of an era. It should be conserved for that reason.
Re: RE:RE:Angrez chale gaye, kabre yahin chhod gaye!
by Guest on Aug 31, 2009 03:37 AM Permalink
Having read through all these threads, I was saddened to hear of such extreme anger for something that took place so long ago.Clearly, we should not forget these events as it is part of Indian & British history, be it right or wrong.I have just had a wonderful trip around India along with my family including 2 children aged 9&10 & I explained in detail the circumstances surrounding the British rule and the consequences that followed.They now firmly believe that it was wrong and that is undeniably the case.I met nothing but kindness and humility when we visited India and these threads uncover some deep hatred which I was not aware was festering below. We must remember that during these times,people joined the British army as work was so hard to find and consequently followed orders from senior officers in the course of duty.This does not mean they enjoyed doing what they had to do to avoid being shot themselves.The decision makers were perhaps the people to lay the blame on and the cemetery at St Johns does not just house those people. I work with many Indian people in England and I even worked for an Indian software company for a couple of years and have made many good friends in the past.I have treasured their friendship and shared knowledge and discussed memories of my previous trip to India and hopefully made them most welcome in my country. I have visited my relatives WW1 grave in Belgium and sad as I am about his death,I would not condone desecrating German graves.
