1.) Percentage population of Brahmins in India 3% 2.) IIT Madras, out of 427 faculty members (teaching staff) only two faculty members belong to the Dalit community. 3.) This means that instead of 22.5% of positions being allotted to Dalits only 0.4% reservation is being given. If the proper process of reservation is followed there should be 96 Dalit faculty members 4) 400 facualty members are Brahmins 5) IIT - JEE paper for Dalits are colored differnetly even the answer sheets are of different colored differently, Why do you need to distinguish at this leve if merit is the ranking on the list a mere roll number , could sort the dalit list later ? 6) TInthe Year 2001 537 students were selected to join B.Tech in IIT Madras. Of these 503 students belong to the general category and only 34 students belong to the Dalit community. Instead of 22.5% reservation eligible to Dalits only 6.3% is being filled up. If reservation is properly implemented there should be 121 Dalit students in B.Tech course. 7) Dalit students selected for the B.Tech are continuously harassed & they are wantonly failed in courses by Brahmin faculty. This is facilitated because student's caste is mentioned in the roll call given to Faculty members. Very few Dalit students are allowed to complete their B.Tech degree and many discontinue. Dalit students are entirely denied admissions to other programs like M.Tech, M.S. & Ph.D. 7) HOw many Phd's came from Dalit , Is it because of a community can be so intellectually defunct , If so Why ? 8) In the Department of Mathematics, IIT Madras, till 1998 no Dalit student had been selected for the Ph.D. program. Despite appearing twice for interview a Dalit student Mr.S.R.Kannan was not selected. For selecting him Dr. (Mrs.) Vasantha Kandasamy, an Associate Professor of the Department had to appeal to various social justice forums to see that he was selected. Till date he is yet to be allotted an office room in the Mathematics Department 10) Dr. Vasantha fought for the Dalit scholar, so she is harassed in all possible ways. She was selected as Associate Professor in 1996, but she is denied her right salary. Despite being a highly qualified mathematician having published over 350 research papers in journals & conferences, she is discriminated because she is espousing the cause of Dalit education. She has guided 11 students for their doctoral program - Ph.D. 12)
Many OBCs feel that people who post against reservations are against the upliftment of OBCs. That is not true. I can take an oath on this. There are people like me who genuinely believe that reservation will hurt the OBCs. Will my son study if I tell him I will get him admission without studying. I want my son to learn. Not just get a degree. If I give money to a beggar, I will be doing him dis-service since he will remain a beggar. People talk about reservation. Howcome no one talks about pulling the OBCs up so that they can compete and even beat the so-called upper castes?
I am Neither Brahmin Nor OBC. I am a Maratha, Open category. Grandparents were petty farmers. Yet we are 6 engineers (including me and first cousins). All on merit. I have written several posts on this issue. I do not wish to repeat. The key points that I made are that social justice should be done to everyone. All backward classes (social and economic) should be given free schooling and financial assitance for higher education.
But now I make a new point and that is the definition of OBC. Let us say that OBCs get admission in IITs and IIMs. However who exactly will enter these insitutions ? Let us find out.
The OBCs cover a wide range from caste standpoint and even wider range of economic standpoint. eg Both the Sonar (Gold Smith) and Lohar (Iron Smith) are considered OBCs. The Sonar are close to Brahmins in rituals and economic status. The Lohars are on the other end of the spectrum. The Sonars have economic clout and can even beat Brahmins in competitive exams. Guess who is getting in to IIT/IIM ? Sonar or Lohar even if the reservation is 90% ?
The Lohar is asking for reservation. Does he know who he will compete with ? Had the Sonar been removed from the OBC list, the Lohar had a good chance of getting in even if the reservation is 20% !
However if the reservation was based on economic criteria, the Lohar would have got admission due to his poor economic status. Plus no one would complain since kids in higher economic cetegory will pay donations to get admission! Once the Lohar's community improves, it will automatically get removed from the quota list making way for other deprived communities.
So dear OBC brothers and sisters, instead of just asking for a % in reservation, try to increase the chances of deserving OBC candidates.
There are 4 categories of OBCs: 1. OBCs genuinely needing support from society. We need to provide for their schooling, guidance and financial assitance for higher education. 2. OBCs who got admission on merit and are proud of it. They need to encourage others in doing the same. They should be future leaders! 3. OBCs who mis-used the quota system inspite of their good economic status and feel guilty. Dont repeat the mistake. Dont let your children mis-use it. Give other OBCs a chance. 4. OBCs who just want to get it free without any guilt. They cannot survive in a competitive environment. They will work in Government jobs with dusty files and waste their lives in government job culture. What do they know about MNCs, Programming, Project Management, International experience. They are like frogs in the Pond.
Only OBCs can solve their own problem. Others tring convincing them only causes more hatred. Infact it irritates me when people from the so-called upper caste pass derogatory comments against the OBCs who are asking for reservation. They make matters worse. If you cant debate logically, just shut up.
This doesnt have to be a fight between OBCs and non-OBCs. This should be a discussion about how genuine OBCs/SC/ST can be pulled up so that they can compete with the rest.
How How How ? Let us discuss how we can achieve this. Can we have more schools ? Provide financial assistance. How do we review that genuine OBCs are getting the benifits that they are fighting for. We need to improve our strategy so that more and more people from the so called OBC community can compete with the rest. Let us keep a target to achieve this within 3 generations.
Now regarding the caste system. Because of job opportunities, younger generation is already going out of city, state and country. They will mingle with the opposite sex and inter-caste marriages are inevitable. Few of my cousins have married Brahmins and OBCs. I dont mind if my son/daughter marries anyone as long as that person has not misused the quota system. How can I allow my child to marry someone who is not competent ? Would an OBC father allow his daughter to marry a Brahmin who is a drunkard and uneducated just because he is a Brahmin ? If we are fair in our expectations, inter-caste marriages will help eliminate this problem and reservation will be a non-issue.
RE:OBC upliftment
by a a on May 11, 2007 12:19 AM Permalink
You have raised good points however , after 60 years of independence we still cant wait and figure out aperfect system to start off. what is needed is to let the current reservation go and figure out a new list of who is OBC and who is not , but putting procedural roadblocks to delay the implementation of a well intentioned social justice passed by the will of the people by the judiciary and preventing admission for the whole academeic year is unacceptable . Clearly the judiciary with an oer dominant brahmin representation looks biased . This will defintely be a litmus test for the judiciary . If the judiciary lets the admission continue provisionalyy for 1 or 2 year and order a correct nationwide survey that will be justice.
Please do not discuss caste here, because OBC means "Other Backword Classes". Even poor among the upper caste can be OBC. Those political parties who want to divide the country on the basis of caste can not claim to be "secular". As per constitution there is no doubt about the reservation for SC & ST. I think SC STs should strongly oppose the OBC reservation, because it will dilute the cause of SC/ST and zeoperdise the whole issue of resrvation. As far as torture, descrimination, opression on the basis of caste is concerned, it was the SCs who suffered the most in the hands of the upper caste as well as other backward caste. STs require reservation to bring them into the main stream.
RE:OBC = Other Backword Classes
by Sai Puducode on May 09, 2007 11:17 PM Permalink
Ban Congress goondas from India. This congress government created the monster called Pakistan based on religion. They undertook the study or census of the Armed Forces so that they wanted to create a Muslim regiment in Armed forces. They backed out when people expressed their outrage & the top military brass pointed out the danger inherent in this political game of inflicting a fatal blow on the only coherent nationalistic institution in the country now. They loot Hindu temples & pay Muslims to visit Mecca & Christians to visit Rome. They have imposed a Jessiya tax on Hindus visiting Rishikesh, Kedarnath etc. Then they wanted higher %age of seats for Muslims in private companies, IITs & IIMs. For now, Supreme Court has put a temporary brake on that adventure. Congress bas**ards have divided the country on religious & caste lines all along & now Rahul is accusing others of this is like%u201D the pot calling the kettle black%u201D. Rahul should know that his mother Sonia, Arjun Singh, Mukherjee, PM, are all anti-Hindu. Support BJP/VHP/RSS if you want to survive as a free citizen in a free country
Don%u2019t miss this news as a payback for minoritym of Congress goondas. The Jamia Milia University on Friday found a way of expressing its gratitude towards Human Resource Development Minister Arjun Singh when it named a road in its campus and a centre for distance learning after him. The Arjun Singh(SOB) Centre for Distance and Open Learning was inaugurated by University Grants Commission Chairman S K Thorat this evening. Earlier in the day, the road leading to Mujeeb Bagh Teachers' Housing Complex in the varsity, also named after the minister, was opened. The road, named Shahrah-I-Arjun Singh, was inaugurated by M Rais Khan, president of the Jamia Teachers' Association. The University's Vice Chancellor Mushir-ul-Hasan justified the naming of the road and the centre after the minister, saying, "It is our Executive Council's unanimous decision. "No HRD Minister has taken so much interest in Jamia's development as he has." Jamia had "full freedom to take its decisions", Hasan told journalists, adding they should have no problem with this. "Arjun Singh is the only HRD minister to give us special grants for infrastructure development. Hence the road was named after him," Khan said.
Thats what they wanted the hindus to look about themselves. The hindus see it. These are all sick ideas. What is the fault of politicians if so many people are trained in these arguments ?
Anyone who refuses to accept that those folks belongong to the 'backward castes - low caste and the outcastes, have been subjected to outright oppression, descrimination and marginalization for millenia should have their heads examined. Having said that, not all people belonging to the 'backward' classes or castes are marginalized and backward - many are doing quite well, even holding top govt posts. Surely those belonging to this 'creamy layer' are not the marginalized people that quotas are meant to help? Yet the self-serving Commie Cong hypocrites, for purely political expediency (read votebanks) are against the exclusion of this well-off 'creamy layer' from the quota regime. Why? Everyone with a speck of dirt for brains knows why - because the Cong-Left are corrupt beyond redeem. They talk of the aam aadmi, but their actions shows that they are for really the rich and influential - anyone who can win them votes. That's why they have so many criminals in their rank, from Ministers to MPs to plain ole partymen. And these carrion have the unmitigated gall to point their fingers at others - talk of the pot calling the kettle black. Hypocrites! And anytime the courts rule against their nefarious activities to subvert the constitution, it's called 'encroachment' by the judiciary. It's no secret that these very same 'secularists' are most adept at getting around such trivial things as the constitution -they only have to pass a law to legitimize their criminal actions - the SC is only pointing out they too have to abide by the constitution - they may make laws but they are not above the law.
RE:They didn't encroah the 'reserved' area
by biz Narayan on May 09, 2007 10:59 AM Permalink
This millienia argument is fraud, it is based on some outdated theoritical studies. Never 3% people subject 97% people to anything for so long.
However of this millienia of fighting/oprresion is so tempting to be accepted today, it is okay that they have reservation.
Any argument stops at caste system. You speak about inequalities between man and woman with a muslim he points out caste system and the discussion stops. Caste system has been abused time and again. What was a pure classification of profession that contributes to the society has now become a hierarchical one and then there is this history, which our politicians are using it to their advantage. When it comes to education instead of all these complications I suggest only general category. People regardless of caste if qualified can get the seats. People who cannot afford the education can get the same with partial or total assistance from the goverment....end of story. By the way, that's how a lot of Indians get their degree in US., financial assitance in the name of research assitantships etc. If indeed government is worried about backward "classes" they should introduce programs to bring them to the mainstream within a fixed time frame (any product must have a date of expiry). However, forced inception of incompetencies into our schools of knowledge is definetely not the best way to achieve that. And then there is this talk of our elected representatives not getting a free run over the judiciary. Many of these elected representatives go ahead with their vested interests with some superficial assistance from the beauracracy. It is quite obvious they get frustrated when they are lectured from people who are competent to argue.
Somnath Chatterjee...in the name of development has totally cut down all trees, shrubs & destroyed wetlands in RABINDRANATH TAGORE'S SANTINIKETAN.....A person who can ATTACK THE IDEALS OF R. TAGORE HAS NO RESPECT FOR JUDICIARY...WHAT MORE CAN YOU EXPECT ?
VOTE FOR BJP - TRINAMUL IN THE PANCHAYAT 2008 ELECTIONS.....RAJNATHJI - ASK MAMTADI TO GIVE MORE SEATS TO THE BJP
RE:Somnath Chatterjee has DESTROYED SANTINIKETAN
by Sai Puducode on May 09, 2007 11:17 PM Permalink
Ban Congress goondas from India. This congress government created the monster called Pakistan based on religion. They undertook the study or census of the Armed Forces so that they wanted to create a Muslim regiment in Armed forces. They backed out when people expressed their outrage & the top military brass pointed out the danger inherent in this political game of inflicting a fatal blow on the only coherent nationalistic institution in the country now. They loot Hindu temples & pay Muslims to visit Mecca & Christians to visit Rome. They have imposed a Jessiya tax on Hindus visiting Rishikesh, Kedarnath etc. Then they wanted higher %age of seats for Muslims in private companies, IITs & IIMs. For now, Supreme Court has put a temporary brake on that adventure. Congress bas**ards have divided the country on religious & caste lines all along & now Rahul is accusing others of this is like%u201D the pot calling the kettle black%u201D. Rahul should know that his mother Sonia, Arjun Singh, Mukherjee, PM, are all anti-Hindu. Support BJP/VHP/RSS if you want to survive as a free citizen in a free country
Don%u2019t miss this news as a payback for minoritym of Congress goondas. The Jamia Milia University on Friday found a way of expressing its gratitude towards Human Resource Development Minister Arjun Singh when it named a road in its campus and a centre for distance learning after him. The Arjun Singh(SOB) Centre for Distance and Open Learning was inaugurated by University Grants Commission Chairman S K Thorat this evening. Earlier in the day, the road leading to Mujeeb Bagh Teachers' Housing Complex in the varsity, also named after the minister, was opened. The road, named Shahrah-I-Arjun Singh, was inaugurated by M Rais Khan, president of the Jamia Teachers' Association. The University's Vice Chancellor Mushir-ul-Hasan justified the naming of the road and the centre after the minister, saying, "It is our Executive Council's unanimous decision. "No HRD Minister has taken so much interest in Jamia's development as he has." Jamia had "full freedom to take its decisions", Hasan told journalists, adding they should have no problem with this. "Arjun Singh is the only HRD minister to give us special grants for infrastructure development. Hence the road was named after him," Khan said.
Not only in this case, in many other cases it has been seen that the MPs dont know anything! How will they vote then? Every party member is briefed by the party leader.That means what is taken as granted is not the TRUTH! This mockery is going on since the first day . Sri Arvind Lavakare has clearly pointed out this aspect! It is upto so called university educated men to SWALLOW IT before choosing a man or a party!
Very nice Mr. Prem Kumar, except the current form of reservation is nothing like what you are saying. A person asking for reserved quota seat is NEVER asked where he/she is from (which remote village) or how much do they earn. That PROVES that the next door rich OBC ends up profiting from these reservations, not the truly oppressed in the remote villages.
Yes, my heart says I will treat everybody as my equal. However if I am deprived again and again of what I deserve simply because of my caste and on the basis of someone else's caste, is that policy really eradicating caste divisions or enhancing it? Sure, I feel for all those oppressed and support reservations based on economy. But all of us SEE who really gets profited by reservation. And the author has a point, you simply cannot make policies based on data that is 70 years old, carried out under British rule!
I'm all for eliminating castes feeling. Are you? It seems you only have hatred for those who oppose reservation and don't really want to understand why they oppose it. Eliminating reservation will not eliminate caste feelings, but maintaining useless politically motivated reservations will not eliminate it either!!
RE:Let's talk about reality if you really want to
by a a on May 11, 2007 12:22 AM Permalink
When you say you are for eliminating caste . DO you support if aperson who puts an ad for his daughter in the paper whihc says Nrahmin girl seeking brahmin boy can be imprisoned for two years ?
Hm.. I did not think so .. Caste is here and it will remain until caste becomes socialy irrelevant when the backward sections are uplifted
RE:RE:Let's talk about reality if you really want to
by Prem Kumar on May 09, 2007 08:34 AM Permalink
Dear Amit,
Point is Simple. You say current system is not working and creamy layer gets it - Agreed! As I mentioned before, I am all for eliminating creamy layer and bringing economically backward OC as well into reservation.
Make ths system work, not scrap it. Democracy doesn't work in India because politicians are cheating so will you suggest scraping democracy and allow some authoritarian rule? We should fight to make the system work, not simple give up.
You agreed that you have the hate because someone is taking away your position. Is it only because creamy layer does? Will you be alright when you loose your seat to a poor villager?
We have to sacrifice for the social justice to prevail in India - I have. I belonged to so-called FC and I cudn get in with merit however I am still supporting it because I have seen with my own eyes how reservation helps.
I have no Hate for anti-reservation folks but only trying to make them understand just like how my friend made me understand the real issues.
I congratulate that you are all up for eliminating castes. I am already doing my small bit!
