An excellent comilation taken out by Rediff, which is always the first and contemporary in events. I wish the series could have been presented in ne lot. Vinod Tuli
Re: RE:this is crazy
by Rahul Gupta on Jun 08, 2009 10:46 AM Permalink
Mohammed not only was Tansen converted even you were converted. One of the converters put a Pistol in your Great Grand Pa's small black back hole and he converted and started chanting Allah hu Akbar.
RE:For Anurag Bhai.................. who seems to be eccentrically Caring to Women
by Anurag Gupta on May 15, 2007 07:19 PM Permalink
I can only say that you read my earlier two comments once again and think about their contents carefully. At some point, you may see merit in what I have said.
I do not think any further comments from me will help this discussion. Your views are likely to change if you get a chance to travel a lot, read a lot and meet a lot of people from different countries. It will also give you a chance to understand why most people think the way they do on these subjects.
Information 1: You know..... .Arabs/Muslims were rich before oil also... inshallah, they will be so.... after that also, if they the Islam properly.....
and no body knows what will replace oil.... and that thing can be found in Arab land..... because Muslims have faith on Allah......
And it is a non sense that Arabs will go to learn ITI, B.Tech., MBA unnecessarily when they have so much resources for a handful of people. what would you say if Millionairs leave stock market and go to do B.Tech or any job oriented course for making their livelihood.
Talk logical..... please
Information 2: You forget that Israel is not a country....... its a colony of US in Arab only set up in 1948. they say their brothers only kicked them from Europe... God knows what wrong they did.
Information 3: Read the book on 1857.... you will know how the whites were first butchered......then Brits retaliated..... one proof is the very name.... KHOONI DARWAZA.... in Delhi. You should William's above book........... if you dont beleive a Muslim.
and Regarding Women.......... Read my article......which follows.....
Some replys for........................ my...freinds....... On ISLAM AND CIVILISATION
by mohammed ahmed on May 14, 2007 05:24 PM Permalink | Hide replies
No body claims ISLAM brought Maths or science. and no religion does claim so. not Buddha also. Muslims preserved and improved upon all the good things and religional traditions of any civilisation. and eliminated only the evils things and customs.
improvements upon Roman/Indian sciences like alchemy, algebra, algorithm, ( the name al says it that it's arab), arab numerals, Unani medicines, Archetechture etc. Greats are Alkhearizmi, Aljaabir, Ibn Seina, Alberounie etc.
Literature: Rumi, Saadi, Arabian Nights, story of Laila Majnu, Alberounie, Ibn Batuta, Love poems of Haafiz, popularisation of Poetry, etc.
Philosophy : Ibn Rushd (Averos) Al-Gazali, etc. Rabindra Nath also was a pupil of Rumi and Haafiz's Mysticism and Poetry. His Father went to reclusion in a hillside for 2 yrs and did meditation and chanted the poems of Rumi and Haafiz, and reportedly got beatific vision and enlightemnt, in his words. it's just one example. many more like Kabir and Sai baba evry one knows. Iqbaal, who does not know. even the Critics use his couplets for their benefit.
One should know that West also acknowledges that East (Arabs/India/China etc) only brought enlightenment to West. (i am not talking about light from electricity or sun). Roger Becon, the only learned man of Europe before 16th cen, also got his education from Muslim Spain and later became a professor in newly found Oxford univ in 12th cen. Military art and science, not to mention, Because India had enough of Islamic militaries.
Muslims Worlds contribution is greatest in Modern World also. Because, 20th Modernity was totally dependent on oil. you will agree if you have some science and engg backgraound. And 2/3rd of used oil came from Muslims: arab, iran, libya, egypt, Brunie, Kazakhastaan, Uzbekistan, Ukrain, and many more.
actually, Dacoits attack the well off and rich people. Hence, Jews and communists are the dacoits. isnt it? BUT DACOITS ONE DAY WILL HAVE TO LEAVE.
RE:Some replys for........................ my...freinds....... On ISLAM AND CIVILISATION
by Anurag Gupta on May 14, 2007 10:28 PM Permalink
No offense, my friend, but there is no contribution to the modern civilization by the Muslims. Oil is a natural resource and not a Muslim contribution.
Muslim oil fields were discovered and harnessed by western technology and by westerners alone. It is the western technology that provide the riches to the Muslims in some countries. It is a pity that inspite of raining wealth for 50 years none of these countries have managed to develop a diversified technological base with skilled manpower.
Jews are living in the most barren piece of land in the world with almost no natural resources. Take an airtip over Israel and you will find that they have made an oasis in the desert. Compare and contrast it against its Muslim neighbors. They did get support from the west but they worked excruciatingly hard.
Oil will not last for long. 3 decades or maybe 6 decades. By that time the world would have moved to other sources of energy like solar, nuclear or hydrogen based fuel cells. At that point, all the western firms will leave the Arab world. What will happen to the Muslims with no petro dollars, with unskilled manpower, without technological base, with corrupt rulers and medieval governance systems?
who converted Yousuf Youhana and many like him in todays time.
But which Pakistani or Muslim is behind conversion to Christianity and Buddhism.
Last week only, Lakhs of Tribals did
officially register themselves as Buddhists under Dalai Lama.
Man, Evil has to go one day. Be it Brits or
Brahmins or Stalins or Chengis or Timoor.
IT IS NEVER FOR FORCEFUL CONVERSIONS OR INNOCENT KILLINGS.
Otherwise%u2026. Islam never would have prevailed all over the world and people never would embrace it at least in these days.
Islam actually always talks in terms of Evil vs Pious, Satanic vs. Sacred, Just vs Unjust and Peace vs Violence in every aspect of the SELF, SYSTEM and SURROUNDING.
And because, these terms are more SPIRITUAL than material/psychological, it derives the GUIDELINES from DIVINE sources like PROPHETS/PREISTS and divine book of KORAN. This is the ONLY book which is PRESERVED inside millions of hearts/minds, as it was at its origin. So, no distortion is Ensured by the Practice of Memorisation.
No Muslim king went to Kerala/Srilanka.... but think how Islam reached there... and in fact muslims are 30% in population. Same is the case for Indonesia and Malayshya.... where 40 crore muslims live.
which aurangzeb went to Indonasia/Malaysia Kerala/SriLanka......etc..????????
who converted Jaipal Yogi/Cat-Stevens/ Yusuf Yuhana/Kamala Das/ AR-Rahman/ ClassusClayMd.Ali?????????????????
People embraced Islam to get the following GIFTS:
1.NAMAZ- best way of prayer, chanting, excercise, yoga, meditation,
Social Mingling: all in ONE.
2.ROZA- best way of fasting, cleansing, practicing patience,
discipline, unity- all in ONE.
3.ZAKAT- best way of charity, tax, gifts, insurance, investment-all in
ONE (Allah saves the giver from accidents, diseases, ill-fate etc)
4. HAJJ %u2013 best form of pilgrimage %u2013 Signifying One Humanity %u2013 Universal Brotherhood
5. Circumcision- best practice after birth to have basic cleanliness always.
6. Earth-burial of deads- best environmental freindly DISPOSAL with DIGNITY.
RE:Some replys for........................ my...freinds....... ON ISLAM AND CONVERSION
by Anurag Gupta on May 14, 2007 10:55 PM Permalink
If Islam is such a great religion, why Muslim societies are so bloody? ALmost everywhere, Muslims are out to get their pound of flesh. They spend enormous energy crying hoarse on the unfair treatment being meted out to them. But almost no effort is made to install democratic governments in their own societies, have peace with other communities including various Muslim sects and rid themselves of social evils like polygamy and ill treatment of women and children.
The only rallying cry that Muslims have been left with is that they were the ones to usher in the western renaissance and Islam introduced a fairer treatment towards others. But what is the status now? Stop chanting the past and come into the present.
Why most Muslim countries are so corrupt? Why women and children are at lower in social hierarchy in these societies? Why so much bloodshed among Muslims?
Other societies have been opressed too throughout the history but not one resorted to this kind of violence. Inspite of their violent methods Muslims are not succeeding but only driving themselves deeper into misery.
There are so many religions world wide and hardly anyone is having issues like Muslims.
Clearly, there is something seriously wrong in your religion. It is for you to find out and let us know.
RE:Freinds................ We should take lesson from 1857 events.........
by imran khan on May 21, 2007 08:38 PM Permalink
Dear Sahim bhai, HATS OFF to ur statements, I m really impressed with the way u hav provided gr8 n true knowledge about Islam n Muslim history n contributions in India n worldwide.
Idiot n duffer people like Anurag Gupta will not realise or even dont want to know the truth so bhains ke aage been bajane se koi fayeda nahin.
Jab Indian Muslims Angrezon ki goliaan kha rahe the (in 1857) tab Mr Gupta type ke baniye ghar mein chhup ke baithe the.... thats fact It was always British VS Muslims never Briish VS Hindus, bcoz u need to hav gooda in ur pichhwara to fight people like Brits of 19th century.
RE:Freinds................ We should take lesson from 1857 events.........
by Anurag Gupta on May 14, 2007 11:02 PM Permalink
Indian struggle for independence was relatively bloodless. We did not go and commit mass murders that kill everyone: the agressors and the agressed.
People are fighting imperialism today much better than the Muslims. Look at countries like Venezuela.
It is time Muslims start using brains instead of other body organs to think.
How to read 1857 today and understand its bitter lessons of betrayal
by on May 12, 2007 01:12 PM Permalink | Hide replies
2007 is the 150 anniversary of India%u2019s First War of Independence and there is a flurry of activities on this issue. Several seminars and discussion panels are being organized and papers being presented on 1857, recorded as a turning point in Indian history. For most of the work being done on 1857, the underlying theme appears to be biased or limited in their scope and readings. Some, written by Eurocentric/British historians describe 1857 as a "Sepoy Mutiny" while those of the %u201CSwadeshi and feudal mindset%u201D tend to overplay the role of the feudal princely estates and "Rajwadas". Their heroes such as Jhansi ki Rani and Tatia Tope are often represented as front line heroes of 1857, such perceptions have been perpetuated by pop-history readings through sources such as "Amar Chitra Katha". Other wrong representations have been made by over playing the issue of greased cartridges, religion, caste and creed. The term, "National Rebellion" was used for the first time in the British Parliament debates where the attempts by the ruling parties to underplay the uprising as a simple "mutiny" were contested by the opposition parties, who wanted the rebellion to be put down with the severest possible means.
Though the exact events of 1857 are important to understand, it is even more important to contextualize 1857 in today's India. Right across different ruling class parties there has been a serious attempt to water down the relevance of the 1857 uprising, both in terms of its scope and relevance to our present times. The CPI (M) oriented camp of historians have even gone to absurd lengths to force down their own concepts of modern political thought by insisting that 1857 contained within it the idea of %u201CNation State%u201D. Nevertheless, all the ruling class parties seem to converge on one point that, 1857 was an anti imperialist struggle which was successfully concluded in the 1947 Independence of India.
In the first place: 1857 was definitely an anti-imperialist struggle, but its tasks have not been completed as yet and 1947 was only a formal Independence and India is still in the grip of neo-colonialism, its policies are still being dictated by the imperialist powers and its agents. These current economic, social and political policies can clearly find their roots in the brutal suppression of the 1857 and the rise to power a class of Indians who aided the British in ruling India till 1947 and continue to aid and assist foreign imperialist interests even today.
In the second place: 1857 was largest ever armed uprising in the British colonial empire, and the impact of the uprising was such that it shook the foundations of the empire.1857 was a peasant rebellion, the underlying cause was the increasing land settlement laws being introduced by the British. In earlier times, before the British implemented the idea of land settlement; land was an inalienable right and the zamindar, feudal lords and the king had only rights over revenue collection. By introducing the principle of "Eminent Domain" the British had in one stroke reversed centuries of security over land tenure granted to the peasant. The principle of "eminent domain" declares the "ownership" of all land to reside in the crown, thereby allowing the eviction of rightful owners from their land, with only the need to pay due compensation. The growing insecurity of the peasantry over the probable loss of land quickly engulfed the regions of North India and even bringing the sepoys into the fray. Since the sepoys employed by the British army were peasants, they could directly relate to the issue of growing insecurity over land rights and took up the cause for armed resistance.
It was only after the initial success of the peasantry and the sepoys that the feudal estates such as Jhansi came into play, for most of the feudal estates, it was a struggle against the increasing strangle hold of the British and to retain their dominion and their alignment with the peasantry was taken after due thought and consideration. They assumed that the whole of British India would rebel successfully and after kicking the British out, they would continue to rule. These feudal estates did not enter the fight with any sense of any progressive values which would have led to the emancipation of the toiling peasantry.
In the third place and most the important point, is to be able to understand and place 1857 within the context of our current era. There is little point in us celebrating 1857, if it does not carry some relevance for us today. The most important lesson that we can get from readings on 1857 is the "institutionalization of traitors". Traitors have always been the part and parcel of history, be it Jai Chand or Mir Jaffer, but eventually they get relegated to a foot note of history. It is only after 1857, we can clearly find, that those who sided with the British in defeating the Indians were felicitated, given appointments in administration, business contracts, judiciary, land, zamindari, princely tutelages, %u201CRai Sahib Titles, provided secure residences (the concept of "civil lines" came up only after 1857). The lesson to be learnt is that it is this class of traitors, who first of all took sides with the British in defeating our people, also took over as the rulers of India in 1947 and continue to rule over us even today. We can even directly trace numerous families such as the Scindias and many other "Maharajas" who continue to rule India today. All such families who claim the title "Maharaja" were those who either continued to sit quietly on the sidelines during the war or they actively supported the British in quelling the rebellion and for that favour, were bestowed with numerous privileges by the British. Not one among these traitors of the feudal brigade have had the courage to speak up against their ancestors or retune the land and estates bestowed upon them by the British. It is their tacit support of the imperialist powers that have ensured their retention in the current political arena even today. It is this class and their obvious alignment towards propagating and protecting the interest of western economy and politics, which has ensured that agents of foreign capital such as World Bank continue to dominate the political and economic agendas of our country. It is this class of traitors who enabled the British to rule over India for the next 90 years till 1947 and then were left to rule as British colonial agents till today. It is these very same families who continue to rule as Shaheed Bhagat Singh called them, "The Black British" (Kaale Angrez).
If we see the economic, social and political policies of our current times we can see that they favour the developed and nations at the cost of the Indian polity. In each and every point of intervention, whether it is the support for multi national corporations to find India a point of cheap labor, or the development of SEZs (tax and customs duty free zones), or recent shameful statements by Man Mohan Singh in Oxford, where he praised colonial rule over India! Is our PM blind or illiterate that he does not know about the devastation of Indian business and economy by British colonialism? The problem is not in incorrect assessment of the ills of the colonial rules, the point to note is that this class of people have aligned themselves with the ruling class interests of the developed nations and not with the toiling Indians. Lets take a small case to explain: It is India's open door iron ore export policy which is enabling Mittals and TATAs to buy European steel mills. Since European mines are now almost depleted and will soon lead to a closure of the steel mills in Europe their mills are up for grabs. The terms of sale inset on the buyer showing a guaranteed supply of iron ore. So TATA and the Mittals have bought Corus and Arcelor, with the assurance given by the Indian government that they will be given captive mines for exporting ores in Orissa!! Great news, first the Europeans colonized us and raped us and our economy, now that their economy is facing a meltdown, here comes the native cavalry to their support. How are all these insane policies being implemented? Why must Delhi never be cleaned for its citizens, but more than 300000 slum dwellings be demolished for beautifying Delhi for the 2010 Common Wealth Games, it is a shame and a blot on the nation's people.
Traveling down U.P., Bihar, M.P., Haryana, A.P. and almost any other corner of India one has to only see the manner in which the policemen treat the "poorer natives" of this country, exactly as they did during the British Colonial era, the same goes for the administration and the Judiciary. It is quite common to see the police hanging working class people upside down and beating the soles of their feet, false encounters, custodial rape and deaths, false cases being framed.. These remnants of the Raj still continue and are being perpetuated by the same class of people who traditionally sided with the stronger side and oppressed the weak. An oppressive and arrogant administrative machinery acts as a very effective tool in suppression any form of dissent which directly affects their economic stakes and greed for more profits.
It is only in reading 1857 and contextualizing it within the current ills that plague India, that we can clearly see that the roots of this oppressive and anti-people administration, development policies and continuing poverty, lie within our current ruling classes who learnt to fear the strong and oppress the weak in 1857. It is only then, will we be able to understand the struggles in Kalinganagar, Nandigram, Sigur, Barnala, Gurgaon, Amritar, Narmada basin, Pen Tehsil, Telangana, Bajhera Khurd, where the peasantry is still fighting to complete the unfinished tasks of the martyrs of 1857.
RE:How to read 1857 today and understand its bitter lessons of betrayal
by amit jaiswal on May 14, 2007 12:54 PM Permalink
gr8 observations, analysis and conclusion...but whats the solution? Nothing is impossible...come one come up with some sort of solution how to change these things....how to change the thinkings of ppl...how to reverse the flow...we can only give them answers by applying our mind...you r given mind to think about ths things...you r supposed to think hard of a solution...you r capable of thinking of practical solutions by using your mind....first of all you have to explore youself what you can do...your capabilities are unlimited...even one person's one thought can change the whole country even whole world...lots of examples of these are there in history..Gandhi, Vivekanand, Sai baba, kabir, mother Teresa, and lots of many names..not only hindus but lots of examples of any religious group. None was born great...they made themselves by using their minds...by thinking hard about everything we do in our life...come on get up....think hard about everything..think hard about everything you do the whole day...ask your self basic science questions....what, why, how? you will then know the solution...forget about others...think of yourselves only...first know your capabilities...i tell you....you r not less capable than vivekanand or gandhi or ne gr8 personality....they also have same organs in their body...the only difference was they were never afraid of using their mind...look around your environment, nature...think you trees r serving you, why rivers are flowing for you...why this nature helps you in every possible way....and why we dont c it..y we dont realize by playing with nature we r hurting ourselves...y dont we understand due to our short term physical comfort we cause discomfort to lots of poor ppl and ultimately in long run cause discomfort to ourselves...c for example...take our Ganga...she served human beings for so long time..drinking water was available in plenty...but due to our ignorance we lost that..and today we r buying drinking water Rs10 a lt.....we cut trees...nd now we r using ACs to keep the temp normal...nature was so supportive in past that none needed ne kinda physical devices to give us comfort...we took care of her and she took care of us...but now we didnt care...everyday we hurt her with our short term pleasure...but c her patience..she just keep on doing her work...she is supposed to serve and she still serves..she has no bad feeling, no thought of taking revenge..she goes on and on....but we dont c....because we have become blinds...we dont know ourselves...we c others and try to be like them...but dont want to know about our identity..we dont want to know about our existence...they told us that we are just build up with some cells and we accepted it...we never try to use our mind to think about anything...we only want to copy and paste...whats going on?...come on wake up...first know about yourself...then u will know...jahan unka dimag kaam karna band kar deta hai waha se hamara dimaag kaam karna shuru karta hai...feel it only by doing pranayam and yoga....do ths in correct way...then yooou will have som idea how to solve ths simple problem..only change in thinking required...nothing else is needed....everything will settle down itself...nature will take care of itself...it will just take time...and some change you...one more thing...pls whenever u se trees, sun or any part of nature ...thanx them by heart...say to them ..main un logo ki taraf se maafi mangta hoon jo aapko hurt karte hai..wo nadaan hai...unhe maaf kariye unki nadangi par..wo bachche hai..they dont know anything...main aapse request karta hoon...aap angry mat ho...aap hame comfort de...hum apne andar badlaw layenge...hum badalenge...hum har tarah se koshish karenge ki aap ko kasht na ho...hame bachche ki tarah samajh ke hamari anjaane me ki gayi galtiyo ko maaf kariye...hame shuddh hawa dijiye...hamme shudh paani dijiye...hame pavitra roshini dijiye...hame aage ka rasta dikhaiye.....for now itna hee.
