RE:Thank you Guys! I have to be out for 3-4 hours to do weekend grocery! catch you after that/
by chaitanya kumar on Mar 18, 2007 07:12 AM Permalink
Rajneesh, though considered irrelevant to the topic, it's a very good post that is about a speech given by Abdul Kalam in Hyderabad that you hae posted. I liked this part:
"There are millions of such achievements but our media is only obsessed in the bad news and failures and disasters. I was in Tel Aviv once and I was reading the Israeli newspaper. It was the day after a lot of attacks and bombardments and deaths had taken place. The Hamas had struck. But the front page of the newspaper had the picture of a Jewish gentleman who in five years had transformed his desert into an orchid and a granary. It was this inspiring picture that everyone woke up to. The gory details of killings, bombardments, deaths, were inside in the newspaper, buried among other news."
RE:RE:Thank you Guys! I have to be out for 3-4 hours to do weekend grocery! catch you after that/
by chaitanya kumar on Mar 18, 2007 07:15 AM Permalink
unfortunate that some guy reported your post for abuse. I could post it again but i think it will be reported the same way. Good posting anyway.
Why reporters were barred by the police? Is this some kind of coverup? Definitely under UPA rule CBI is least credible and WB police is the main culprit in whole episode, now what kind of investigations these two will do?
I would be happy if a group of 5 or 10 judges would have gone to Nandigram instead of CBI team. Remote control of CBI is at Sonia. She will definitely not like to see RED eye of communists. She can go on few more Nandigram operation or Noida child murder. She has to be chairperson of USA, she knows. If UPA is blows up, how will she -)
Yes, very good suggestion. I hope, all opposition parties and HR activists come together and create a kind of central place where people can give suggestions on these.
A fund be raised to get to the bottom of Nandigram
RE:RE:Can we know?
by hiral joshi on Mar 18, 2007 03:07 AM Permalink
With UPA anything is possible. Remember Justice Banerjee? These LF-Congress combine can wreck moral havoc on society. They can buy judges too.
I have read all Bengali and English press on Nandigram.
My understanding are:
Police did NOT directly stopped/attacked reporters.
When CPIM cadres stopped/attacked reporters, Police kept mum. Even though many reporters complanied to Police Office (some of them IPS rank)- they said , we are busy in doing other things.
But police is now in deep trouble. Because their role in killing poor people, women, school going children, minorities are getting exposed.
CBI has asked for details of force deployment.
CBI is asking for tallying people thro; ration card/voter card to find out how many people died/ lost.
RE:RE:Can we know?
by hiral joshi on Mar 18, 2007 03:08 AM Permalink
Thanks for info. One more thing, I dont understand by "people lost", either they are killed or not injured, apart from that is anybody kidnapped too?
If if CBI is seen to be putting water on Nandigram, Congress will have to pay a very high political cost. CONGRESS SUPPORTERS WHO ARE SICK WITH CPIM ARE JOINING TRINAMUL ENMASS.
I heard that villages after villages, now Trinamul and Cong supporters have joined hand.
That will spell doom for CPIM. Because if opposition is united, they will be more challenged.
In India SEZ (special economic zone) should be put back in black hole.
There are lot of population in each village. To make a SEZ you need at least 6-7 villages which is practically not a good idea since it has a population. If just flat rate is given, is not way to rehabilate people who loose them home/shelter and fertile land.
It is always better if very unpopulated and undeveloped area is undertaken (of course with proper rehabilitation of the existing people), then two things will be served at least. (1) undeveloped area would be developed. (2) people of the region will not become begger (or slave servant) forcefully by the state govt. In that case Govt. should always think of a place like Purulia (WB) or similar place.
Very true. I am from Budwan and travelled between Burdwan and Calcutta 1000s of times in life which pass thro Singur and neighboring areas (Kamarkundu rail Station in Chord line).
Singur is one of the most fertile area in whole of India.
But Buddha has forced those people out from their homes and gifted this precious land to Tatas.
Why can;t Tata build the same factory in Bankura, Purulia, Midnapore - where we have tons of unfertile land?
RE:SEZ Concept
by hiral joshi on Mar 18, 2007 02:40 AM Permalink
Dear friend there is a lot of surplus, uncultivable barren land. Which can for sure be utilized for SEZ but one needs planning for that. If a party blocks development in a state for 27 years and suddenly starts brainless and heartless industrialization, incidents like Nandigram-singur will happen. First of all LF has to shed double standards about economic policies, then they should make a conducive enviornment in state by educating and informing people about benefits of SEZ or industrialization. Forcible land grabbing is not acceptable.
RE:RE:RE:SEZ Concept
by hiral joshi on Mar 18, 2007 02:58 AM Permalink
I am not countering you. I am stating that SEZ are being formed elsewhere in India too. Look in Gujarat I know many farmers who got couple of crore rupees when GIDC (Gujarart Industrial Development corporation sites)were set in Zaghadia (Narmada Dist.). Due to Gangeatic planes WB has very fertile land and hence is good for farming, why cant govt create a special SEZ for agro-products and bio-tech farming? Why are they so keen to get Car companies there? SEZ policy has to be people friendly region to region. Being very poorly developed WB has large potential to grow but without planning and taking people in to confidence no development is possible.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:SEZ Concept
by dineshchandra mallick on Mar 18, 2007 09:36 AM Permalink
THE EARLIER CM ERODED ENGLISH RETARDED EDUCATION FROM BACKWARD/COMMON/MAJOR PEOPLE OF BENGALJYOTI BASU DID NOT SPARE LAND FOR NAVODAYA VIDYALYA. BUDDHADEB BHATTACHARYA TRIED TO REALISTIC GROWTH OF BENGAL INTHE NAME OF SEZ(HE SHOULD HAVE LEARN IT FROM PROFESSOR YUNUS/ AMARTYASEN/DR AMBEDKAR WRITTINGS AND WRITINGS BEFORE BEING CM OF A STATE.PEOPLE OF BENGAL WILL GIVE A LESSON IN NEXT ELECTION.A BLOOSY CM DESERVE HANG TO DEATH.THE BIDDHA IS SYMBOL OF PEACE AND PRESENT BUDDHADEB BHATTACHARYA IS TERRISM OF MISUSE OF POWER.IMMEDIATE ACTION IS TO SHUNT OUT FROM POWER. HE IS HAVING NO QUALITY TO REMAIN IN PWER. IT IS MY URGE TO THE PEOPLE OF BENGAL VOTE FOR A PARTY WHO WANT TO SERVE THE PEOPLE.
You raised a good points. But like Gujrat that basic idea or knowledge Communists (CPM) never had or never take any good idea from good/knowledgeble people.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:SEZ Concept
by hiral joshi on Mar 18, 2007 03:13 AM Permalink
Commonly it is wellknown that WB people are educated and knowledgable. I know communists have done horrible brainwashing for years but I guess people has to find solution for this problem.
Leftist historians rejected their life time achievements. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Nandigram_was_more_shocking_than_Jallianwala/articleshow/1774467.cms
Hiral Joshi asked : WHY CPIM/GOVT IS BUYING LAND IN WB(, WHILE PRIVATE PARTIES ARE DIRECTLY BUYING LAND FROM PEOPLE IN REST OF INDIA.)
Its an excellent Question.
Reasons are:
1. Local Bodies (manned by CPIM) buy these huge lands from farmer at throw away price. Then they use land which were acquired for setting up Industry for real-estate purpose by selling it.
In the process, they make hue money which is then used to keep large cadre base happy, keep them in good humor.
2. Take the example of Haldia. If you travel from Mecheda to Haldia thro' National highway, after Nandakumar, you will see large tracks of land acquired by different local bodies from farmer. ALL OF THEM ARE FERTILE LAND.
But no industry came up on those land. Instead those were used to set up housing complex, hotels, extertainment center - as a real estate.
CPIM leaders made 100s of crore from these real estate. Because of corruption, they sell they lands at fraction of actual price, and get rest of money as bribe.
Please note, farmers got a fraction of the price local bodies are selling these to real estate developers.
RE:Hiral Joshi asked : WHY CPIM/GOVT IS BUYING LAND IN WB, WHILE PRIVATE PARTIES ARE DIRECTLY BUYING LAND FROM PEOPLE IN REST OF INDIA
by Bhaskar Chattopadhyay on Mar 18, 2007 02:27 AM Permalink
Even large tracks of land forcefully taken over from poor farmers around Calcutta (near Eastern metropolitan Bypass) also saw same thing.
FARMERS GOT A FRACTION OF MONEY AS LAND PRICE. BUT THE SAME LAND WERE SOLD AT PREMIUM TO PRIVATE BUILDERS.
Its a well known fact which is exposed by Bengali newspapers, even by those who support Buddha's Singur/Nandigram disaster.
RE:Hiral Joshi asked : WHY CPIM/GOVT IS BUYING LAND IN WB, WHILE PRIVATE PARTIES ARE DIRECTLY BUYING LAND FROM PEOPLE IN REST OF INDIA
by Rajesh Nair on Mar 18, 2007 09:49 AM Permalink
this must be part of maxian teaching, right?
RE:Hiral Joshi asked : WHY CPIM/GOVT IS BUYING LAND IN WB, WHILE PRIVATE PARTIES ARE DIRECTLY BUYING LAND FROM PEOPLE IN REST OF INDIA
by Bhaskar Chattopadhyay on Mar 18, 2007 02:30 AM Permalink
That's why everybody (including CPIM cardholder The Hindu Editor N Ram, VP Singh , Lalu Prasad........and virtually everybody from Advani to Modi) ASKED WEST BENGAL GOVT NOT TO BUY LAND FROM FARMERS.
INDUSTRIALISTS SHOULD BE BUYING LAND FROM FARMERS DIRECTLY.
GOVT/PARTY HAS NO ROLE TO PLAY IN IT< EXCEPT HELPING BOTH PARTIES MEET.
But CPIM.Dbuddha are not doing these, because THEY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE MONEY FROM THESE DEALS.
RE:RE:Hiral Joshi asked : WHY CPIM/GOVT IS BUYING LAND IN WB, WHILE PRIVATE PARTIES ARE DIRECTLY BUYING LAND FROM PEOPLE IN REST OF INDIA
by Uttamkumar on Mar 18, 2007 02:41 AM Permalink
NOT only that, that is the way they (CPM) reserve and collect money for many MILLION CADRES who are paid monthly of bimonthly and also lead "Nandigram", "keshpur" like operation.
RE:RE:RE:Hiral Joshi asked : WHY CPIM/GOVT IS BUYING LAND IN WB, WHILE PRIVATE PARTIES ARE DIRECTLY BUYING LAND FROM PEOPLE IN REST OF INDIA
by Bhaskar Chattopadhyay on Mar 18, 2007 02:52 AM Permalink
Yes kind of protection money extorted by Underworld.
But let me tell you: Most people give CPIM money NOT BECAUSE THEY SUPPORT CPIM & ITS CAUSE. THEY JUST WANT TO BUY PEACE.
TAKING PUNGA WITH CPIM MAY COST YOU YOUR LIFE. CREATE PROBLEM IN YOUR JOB. OR BUSINESS.
Lets wait for the CBI probe to finish and see what comes out.The firing is not definitely proper, but the villagers or outsiders/insiders were also not doing Gandhigiri, If the police or CPIM cadres can walk in without resistance why will they fire. Don't give the crap that they wanted to do some target practice with their new guns. Nandigram is a law and order situation and need to be dealt with. If the state is wrong it needs to be responsible for it, if the people are wrong they need to be responsible for it.
RE:Wait for the probe
by hiral joshi on Mar 18, 2007 02:15 AM Permalink
Why would cpim cadre will walk? are they buying land? Are they agents to those companies? You seem to be insider, so please enlighten us.
RE:RE:Wait for the probe
by Kasyap on Mar 18, 2007 02:22 AM Permalink
Thye were driven out of their home.. this happens in villages always, sometimes TMC people are driven out, sometimes CPM.. They fight for getting back to their home. You don't need to be an insider to know this, this is newspaper item and very common in villages.
RE:RE:RE:Wait for the probe
by hiral joshi on Mar 18, 2007 02:43 AM Permalink
Its worse than Bihar in WB, how you people are dealing with these goons of both the parties?
RE:RE:RE:RE:Wait for the probe
by Uttamkumar on Mar 18, 2007 02:54 AM Permalink
Out of last 32 years 27 years West Bengal is always WORSE than Bihar. It just running by the cadre based totalitarian group. If opponents develops, CPM cadres kill few of them in dark. So opposition stop. People cannot anything because Cadres know Police for them and Govt is of course shelter them from all criminal and barbaric act.
RE:RE:Wait for the probe
by Kasyap on Mar 18, 2007 02:14 AM Permalink
Nandigram is a law and order situation. There is no land grabbing there, the plan is scrapped. SEZ is not going to happen there.. this has been categorically stated. Deal with salim is a general one, it doesn't have any specific land mentioned in it. The state is responsible to give viable land, not nandigram. Choice of Nandigram was made for its proximity to Haldia. Your other two points are fine, hope the govt will work on that. But there are technical problems with investors getting land directly on large scale, All state govt helps investors with land, WB is not gujarat or AP or MH that investors will come and invest without very good sops, govt need to intervene and fix some price mechanism which is okay for the investors
RE:RE:RE:Wait for the probe
by hiral joshi on Mar 18, 2007 02:18 AM Permalink
That has been categorically stated only after masacre and debacle by govt. Why WB cant be Like Gujarat or Maharashtra? who is responsible for that? Arent those who are ruling now? for 27 years why didnt they plan industrialisation in a proper manner? Now time has come that people wont vote with out development suddenly leftists woke up and started grabbing land for industrialisation?
RE:RE:Wait for the probe
by sree on Mar 18, 2007 02:04 AM Permalink
Looks like Bhaskar is laying the groundwork for damage control.. he is virtually admitting that the violence was engineered by the criminals...
the only reason that the police were not killed is because they were wearing protective vests. Killing young police officers and making widows of their wives simply because you do not like govt policy is unacceptable.
maybe mr. bhaskar does not have policement in his family but some of us do.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Wait for the probe
by Kasyap on Mar 18, 2007 02:19 AM Permalink
Yes thats the dichotomy.. we want growth like China and not ready to take the hardship. Indians are used to gettting goodies without the pain, we are expecting that will happen forever. Intellectuals count very little, they give statements, withdraw them and again issue them..they are good at it. Delhi intellectuals who were fighting for Singur are quite now, they have realized.Same will happen tho this nandigram intelellectuals soon.
RE:RE:RE:Wait for the probe
by Uttamkumar on Mar 18, 2007 02:11 AM Permalink
Sree, taking your word of "policement" in the family, I must say, after wearing the police-dress, so called police "REMOVE" their "HUMAN SKIN" and replace with some brutal animal's.
RE:Wait for the probe
by abby Das on Mar 27, 2007 05:40 PM Permalink
sree I have one point to say.Even if policement wore protective vests,there would have been some signs of bullets brushing on these vests.But nothing could be found on any one of the police man.
Would you answer me how this could happen when the villegers also fired back at the police?
Premature death of Sardar Patel and Shyama Prasad's killing in Kashmir Jail (by conspiracy of Nehru and Sheikh Abdulla) changed Indian History.
EVERY INDIAN IS THANKFUL TO SP MUKHERJEE WITHOUT WHOM WE WOULD HAVE NEEDED A SEPARATE PERMIT TO VISIT JAMMU & KASHMIR TODAY. HE MADE SURE THAT IS ABOLISHED BY HIS LIFE.
If he were alive for another 20-30 years (He was killed at an early age of 52) , history of India and most surely of West Bengal would have been different.
CPI/CPIM would not have been able to fill out the vaccum so easily with decaying Congress.
RE:Two premature death (Sardar Patel and SP Mukherjee) changed Indian History.
by Kasyap on Mar 18, 2007 02:31 AM Permalink
The first two section is true absolutely. Death of Sardar Patel was a monumental loss for India.. India would have been different if he were there. Same with Shyama Prasad. Maybe the other sections are also correct, but in any case Mamata or congress is not the solution for WB. CPIM is the best possible devil/govt/rule you can have in WB like it or not.
RE:RE:Two premature death (Sardar Patel and SP Mukherjee) changed Indian History.
by hiral joshi on Mar 18, 2007 02:45 AM Permalink
Have you visited outside WB? Just see how Navin Patnaik is ruling his state. See how Gujarat progressing. LF is worst possible option for ruling any state in India.
CPIM should thank BJP and its ideological guru Shyama Parasad Mukherjee for their 30 years rule in West Bengal.
If West Bengal were in Pakistan today, no wonder CPIM/CPI would have driven out by Mullahs, Islamists as seen in all 55 Islamic countries. NONE OF THESE ISLAMIC COUNTRIES HAVE ANY COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT THOUGH MOST OF THEM ARE PRETTY POOR.
RE:CPIM should thank BJP and its ideological guru Shyama Parasad Mukherjee for their 30 years rule in West Bengal.
by Kasyap on Mar 18, 2007 02:33 AM Permalink
what is your comment on Jamat fanning the trouble in WB? Anyway they never want any development or education.. more stupid and poor the people are its better for them.
RE:RE:CPIM should thank BJP and its ideological guru Shyama Parasad Mukherjee for their 30 years rule in West Bengal.
by Bhaskar Chattopadhyay on Mar 18, 2007 02:42 AM Permalink
Understand what is happening in Murshidabad and Malda.
CPIM is loosing those slowly, because Jamat and other fundamentalist groups are fanning fanaticism.
Hindus of those places will simply migrate to BJP, as its happening now.
SO CPIM WILL BE HISTORY AS THIS ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIS SPREADS.
Communists voted WITH MUSLIM LEAGUE SO BENGAL JOINS PAKISTAN.
Its people like Shyama Prasad Mukherjee (ideological father of BJP), NC Chatterjee (Father of present speaker Somnath Chatterjee) - top Hindu Mahasabha Leaders, West Bengal was curved out and joined India.
Publisher: Harvard University Press (October 15, 1999) Language: English ISBN-10: 0674076087 ISBN-13: 978-0674076082
Communism did kill, Courtois and his fellow historians demonstrate, with ruthless efficiency: 25 million in Russia during the Bolshevik and Stalinist eras, perhaps 65 million in China under the eyes of Mao Zedong, 2 million in Cambodia, millions more Africa, Eastern Europe, and Latin America--an astonishingly high toll of victims. This freely expressed penchant for homicide, Courtois maintains, was no accident, but an integral trait of a philosophy, and a practical politics, that promised to erase class distinctions by erasing classes and the living humans that populated them. Courtois and his contributors document Communism's crimes in numbing detail, moving from country to country, revolution to revolution. The figures they offer will likely provoke argument, if not among cliometricians then among the ideologically inclined. So, too, will Courtois's suggestion that those who hold Lenin, Trotsky, and Ho Chi Minh in anything other than contempt are dupes, witting or not, of a murderous school of thought--one that, while in retreat around the world, still has many adherents. A thought-provoking work of history and social criticism, The Black Book of Communism fully merits the broadest possible readership and discussion. --Gregory McNamee
RE:''The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression '' (by Harvard University Press) - 100 million killed by Communists in 20th Century
by Bhaskar Chattopadhyay on Mar 18, 2007 01:14 AM Permalink
So, no wonder, that CPIM will unleash cadres in and around Nandigram to deny press, HR activists to visit those unfortunate villages which became victim of Communist criminals.
RE:RE:''The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression '' (by Harvard University Press) - 100 million killed by Communists in 20th Century
by Power India on Mar 18, 2007 02:00 AM Permalink
So, what about the great democratic Amercia? Harward should search for that too
RE:RE:RE:''The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression '' (by Harvard University Press) - 100 million killed by Communists in 20th Century
by hiral joshi on Mar 18, 2007 02:20 AM Permalink
Why to involve america here. Anytime something happens with communists they drag America in the middle. America's actions dont give license to communistst to kill innocents.
RE:RE:RE:''The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression '' (by Harvard University Press) - 100 million killed by Communists in 20th Century
by Bhaskar Chattopadhyay on Mar 18, 2007 02:03 AM Permalink
The leftist worldwide have long discarded Stalin, Mao and detaste these Marxist terrorists.
RE:RE:RE:RE:''The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression '' (by Harvard University Press) - 100 million killed by Communists in 20th Century
by Uttamkumar on Mar 18, 2007 02:15 AM Permalink
"Power India" come with your name given by your mother.
In American Democracy people can never think of "Nandigram operation". And of course politics is not CADRE based.
