RE:root of all evil in India
by Sabarish Sasidharan on Apr 07, 2007 07:20 PM Permalink
The problem is not with the religion but with how people understand and practise it.
The end of caste system in our society is something that we have miserably failed to do in 60 years of independence. Lowest of the low castes are still treated less than a human being by the upper castes. Most of the educated elite, whatever caste they are from; and I believe the interviewer is one of them, has very little time or patience to find out the reality. They would rather look thru these issues from their urban tinted windows. Since the end has not been achieved by the means so far adopted, it is not surprising that radically new ideas are required. By English, Chandra Bhan Prasad, surely means education, for, education has become synonymous with English. Even among the educated, one who can speak English fluently and one who cannot do so are totally in different spectrums of opportunities available and later, career upward mobility prospects. Certainly, Chandra Bhan Prasad, will find it more judicious to advocate for education and English education as the means. This is certainly not a new phenomenon though only now people have begun to realise that educating the Indian masses will solve many problems.
You seem to raise certain questions for the sake of raising questions. The questions pertaining to Lalu, Jaya and Sania...
How can you compare those with the ordinary ones like me? I strongly feel that Chandra has reasons. Coming back to your point... the former two politicians are rogues, who looted the wealth of the state and the public, who are the accusseds in the house of justice. With the money power and Power-power they do get done what they want. As long as the innocent ordinaries are there... they will survive! Your approach in the interview dicourages the dispaire. Why didn't you interview Chandra in Hindi and publish it in Hindi? I know people like you will have excellent alibi!
If discrimination against Dalits is one extreme, to invoke English language as a goddess and arguing against the mother tongue is another. Whenever comparisons are made, why do we mention only Brahmins as the wrong-doers? Is it because they never raise their voice against this? Aren't there other forward classes?? The other flaw is the attitude to encourage negative thinking. I am sure many will agree, whatever the field, with sincere efforts and perseverence, he could excel and succeed, irrespective of caste/creed/ religion/nationality. The hidden truth is that the threat of any discontinuation of this long-extended reservation policy keep these arguments surfacing often.
RE:Flaws in Mindsets
by Sabarish Sasidharan on Apr 07, 2007 07:23 PM Permalink
Exactly, arguing against mother tongue is real stupidity. In that case, it can be argued that the word 'Indian' itself carries a legacy of Indianness and hence should be rechristened to something else. The land in which we live also carries a legacy of the past and hence may be we should all abandon India so that we don't get reminded of our casteist past. Its all stupidity.
RE:Flaws in Mindsets
by Ram Sharma on May 29, 2007 04:47 PM Permalink
dear ramani
as regards atrocity on dalits in tn, it is not done by brahmins, but by thevars & vanniyars. brahmins in general r not cruel, but many people, specially those from south, blame brahmins for all problems as taught by evr naicker (periar).
I AM POSTING MY COMMENT MADE FOR THE SECOND PART LOW QUALITY OF NET DEBATES = OVER DOMINANCE OF BRAHMIN '' CYBER COOLIES''? by Ekalavyan on Mar 13, 2007 10:45 AM | Hide replies
Thinking netizens are over worried about the low quality of internet dabates based on vital issues. Upper caste " Cyber coolies" have no sense of history, no time sense and social sense, lacks human values and dignity.They are conceited and selfish to the core.Their money is mixed with arrogance. Their overwhelming presence in the debates vitiate the atmosphere. Lower caste presence is negligible. In a "Brahminocracy" it cannot be otherwise. In this situation nation is doomed. any wayout? Please
This fellow is talking somehting which does not make sense. Language does not come from scriptures though scriptures may develope to help because India is a religious conutry. Languages develop from time to time with the help of native people. Then, they become part of literature, art etc. Caste is always based on the professions not the birth. I think people should learn theories well. In western world, there is CLASS system where in east it is caste system. The people have been exploited and deprived not for their caste or class but due to their illiteracy, non-education and lack of hardwork. It is universal truth that Literates are the respected not in their places but everywhere. Illiteracy is a big problem for so-called downtrodden as they may be uppercaste or any caste. These so called activist should make get efforts to remove illitercay not just leanrning English if they are really interested in their welfare.
Purohit Sharma Ethnicity and talents of Brahmins and Dalits are almost the same. Environment decides so many things. Adopting English as their mother tongue will definitely save Dalits. They will have confidence. Caste Hindus will also start respecting Dalits as they speaking the language of their former masters
Now what will happen if all Dalits are treated well and not hindered from taking up any profession?
The Dalit activist will lose his daily bread. There is nothing to fight for. But then, will he take on some other "worthy" cause?
Of course not! He will do what he is good at. He will fight for the Dalits even if they are doing pretty fine. If they do not have problems, he will create some for them.
What is hindering Dalits from coming up and opening up India as the great country that she is?
- The answer is: Dalit activists and politicians.
Dalits and OBCs and other castes should throw these rogue activists out of their jobs and get India working.
Its pity that Rogues like Chandra Bhan get media space to write about their silly theories.
If dalits are down trodden some where, its perhaps because of idiots like this Chandra Bhan, talking nonsense.
What prevents you from learning good English and also learning several beautiful languages in India?
RE:Who is a Dalit Activist?
by Ekalavyan on Mar 12, 2007 05:46 PM Permalink
If at all there is an Indian revolution, it will be led by dalits, Because they are the most revolutionary segment in Indian society, becuse they are least Hinduised.
Fools,. idiots, lumpens cannot understand the significance of Dalit movement.
RE:RE:RE:Who is a Dalit Activist?
by Ekalavyan on Mar 18, 2007 07:12 AM Permalink
Brahmanism is our enemy No:one. It has to be burrried alive!!! Then rest is easy.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Who is a Dalit Activist?
by natraj tanjore on Mar 22, 2007 05:12 PM Permalink
And the same babasaheb conveniently embraced buddhism and left you guys in the lurch! For your information, he had developed a snob value with his intellect and position and never really cared for the real poor dalits! Tell me frankly how many well to do dalits are caring for their poor dalit relatives / friends! Also while everyone blames a brahmin, what about the other section of the society? Are they embracing them with open arms? The fact of the matter is as every individual moves up the economy chain, he wants to be in that strata or above it, he cares least for the people below his economic strata, whether he is a brahmin, or otherwise!
RE:Who is a Dalit Activist?
by Subrahmshu Bhattacharya on Mar 25, 2007 08:15 PM Permalink
What prevents the maid who come to your house (and works as a maid in other houses for 12 hours a day and earns a total Rs 1800/- a month from all the houses) from sending her child (or children) to a school to earn English education my friend Anand? She may not be a Dalit, for if she is, she may not be even allowed to work in some of the houses. Answer this question before you ask narrow minded questions like the one above.
DESPERATE 85% of people in India are desperate "working slaves" in an informal economy and their lives oscillate between fear and frustration.
EVEN MORE DESPERATE The remaining are always in search of "collusion" mostly in the form of caste to enhance their wealth.
SOLUTION A nationwide credible "minimum" income guaranteed system for every one whether they work or not will bring in "dignity" instead of desperation for the working poor and "inheritance taxes" will stimulate "compassion" instead of collusion.
Such system will prevent all socioeconomic issues in India viz farmer suicides, dowry deaths, child labor, fear, frustration, corruption, bribery, prostitution, terrorism etc.
In USA,UK,Germany,Portugal, Brazil, Belgium etc this system is implemented. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaranteed_minimum_income#Examples_of_implementation http://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/Inheritance_taxes
I often see people blogging about contribution of Britishers and Mr. Bhan is no different. But have a look at following:
(a) Indian Literacy rate was more than that of England at the end of 18 th century and result was there to see when they left the country.
Their Contribution - Destruction of Indian Education System. All the knowledge known to human beings till 18 th century was being taught in the country.
(b) Railway was by product of industrialisation and many princely states laid railways in their provinces. Britishers of course can be called first by putting up few kms. That too by taking up indian resourses and giving it back on loan to us for laying railway.
(c) Brtishers left us with all princely states as master of their own destiny. It was Bismark of India... Sardar Ballabh Bhai Patel who united the country. Now dont say that emergence of such a leader was by product of British rule.
(d) People who say that India was never an united nation must go back to high school and read history again. What was it during Ashoka rule?
(d) India was first/second in world in terms of GDP till 15 th century and England was over 20. The scene reversed when they left after looting our country. India was out of 20 and they made it to top 5. No prizes for guessing how. No doubt they called India as jewel in the crown of empire. But donn worry we are way back to top 5 and Britain will be out of first 20 in next decade.
Hope to recieve some logical arguements if someone disagrees with my views/facts.
RE:British Contribution - Reality or Myth
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Mar 11, 2007 02:42 AM Permalink
I have to beg to differ with point (d) - India being united under Ashoka rule. South India (Karnataka, AP,TN and Kerala) were never ruled by any north Indian empire. Ashoka conquerred Afghanistan, but not the north east. So Ashoka's empire was completely different from what India is now.
b) Princely states were a small %age of India. Brits laid railways in the Bombay, Madras and calcutta presidencies. (Bombay presidency was today's gujrat, Maharashtra, MP), Madras Predidency was the 4 deccan states, Calcutta presidency included united Bengal, orissa, bihar). Delhi was in control of the rest of north India. 90% of India's rail network is british laid. Obviously by taking local resources - you expect them to ship labour and steel from England? Remember, we didnt invent the steam engine/locomotive. They did. We were stuck in the medeival period when they came, and that is what helped them rule India.
a) I strongly disagree with what you state regarding literacy rates. Can you prove that? The way I understand, only Brahmins and Kshatriyas had right to learn scripture. (Indian education system began and ended with scripture. We never had a tradition of secular education). A dalit would get killed if he tried to learn. The british made an open education system to anyone who wished to learn. They had their selfish motives (an army of clerks to administer the country) but they were the first to make education open to dalits. Dont deny them that. They began secular education in India (secular as in no God bullcrap in sciences. Question everything).
Further contributions include abolishing sati (along with Raja Rammohan Roy... he recommended, the british made it a law).
Of the Nobel Prize winners, Tagore, Raman, Chandrasekhar Subramaniam, Hargobind Khorana all had british education. Other eminent people like JC Bose were also products of the same system. Since Independence we havent had a single nobel prize winner who was completely educated in the Indian system. Speaks volumes, doesnt it?
Yes, they exploited India for their own benifit. But look whom they replaced... India is a democracy because of the British. They educated our freedom fighters with western values of secularism, which is why India is a secular democracy today (Nehru, gandhi, jinnah, gokhale, tilak et al). You have freedom of expression because of those values (though they selectively practised it when they ruled India).
RE:British Contribution - Reality or Myth
by Gundu on Mar 10, 2007 02:52 AM Permalink
Yes Britishers looted us because of our weakness, but they did give back some things which we are leveraging today to get world recognition in IT and technology via ENGLISH! Our hierarchical caste system (ascending order: dalit, vysya, kshatriya, brahmin), hierarchical color system (ascending order: south dark, north light, and Anglo white), and even hierarchical God system (ascending order: kula devatas, gram devatas, demi gods, gods, and paramatma). Unfortunately Dalits are screwed at the lowest level in all the classifications. The 300 million middle class Indians armed with English can make CEOs and Prime Ministers of English speaking countries visit Bangalore %u2013 where as in the same city Dalits are as usual cleaning toilets, living in slums. Believe me it is not the Britishers, it is not the corrupt Indian Politicians, it is the average MIDDLE CLASS Indian babu who is proficient in English whos is screwing Dalits! Unless the middle class accepts Dalits as one of them in the society, Dalits will get screwed forever and ever!!! But you see if Dalits learn English they will be part of this middle class that is cynosure of the world. This Bahn is really smart %u2013 he deservers to be a power politician in India. May be then the middle class will come their senses!!
