I always find chinese (chinkis in general), too conservative. You just cant have a free talk with these guys.... They r perfect a*s*ol**
Now, Why cant they just free tibet and allow them to live in peace ? Tibet and Taiwan r no threat to these guys. These guys r making their lives horrible...
The only good thing about chinese is that they talk less and keep their mouth shut..
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by Dipak Bose on Jun 23, 2007 02:31 PM Permalink
Go to Pakistan and offer your job to Mussalmans.
China had captured Tawang, Walong and Bomdila in 1962 war. They had reached upto Tezpur. Had US then not sent their arms help and naval support to India, China would well be in Assam too. After the american support to India, they had withdrawn from Tawang. Now they re-claim it again. They are aggressive. They will keep claiming small parts of India now and then. Our congress lead spineless government is capable of giving them even calcutta and tell the public that nothing is happening in Bengal! When China had occupied Tibet which was a buffer state till then, Nehru had told junta that the land was useless where not even a grass blade could grow. And really, neither China or Pakistan has to take pains to claim our land. Congressmen, under their rule of more than 50 years have so far and will themselves disintegrate the country in the name of castes and religions (to create their vote banks)and hand it over to foreigners as they have no indigenous leaders left who can survive without the name 'Gandhi'.
RE:China's claim on Tawang
by the blogman on Jun 23, 2007 02:16 PM Permalink
mr. deshpande, get yr facts rite. the US never sent any crap. the pressure was frm the russian T 64 tanks on the sino-russian border. the chinese didnt want two fronts to open up at two diametrically opposite ends.
RE:China's claim on Tawang
by Dipak Bose on Jun 23, 2007 02:44 PM Permalink
USA has sent nothing in 1962, you are talking rubbish. The Prime Minister of UK Harold Macmillan said bluntly to India to give up Kashmir first before expecting any help from the West. Kennedy had tried but could not get any support from the Congress and the Senate to send any miliary help to India. China attacked India on the same day USA had made naval blockade around Cuba and the war between USA and USSR was imminent. However, as soon as the problem was resolved, The Soviet Union had criticized China in Pravda on 7th November 1962 and was ready to send all helps to India. Knowing that USSR will not help China as it did in Korea in 1950 China had no choice but to withdraw as it could not sustain a prolonged war. At that time China has no friend because USSR had cut off all links with China in 1960 after China had closed down all Soviet consulates in China. However, Israel and France became the suppliers of all weapons and technology to China since 1962. India could have got Soviet aircrafts before the Chinese invasion as the contracts were ready, but Morarji Desai refused to sanction money for it. Morarji Desai also refused to give money for the army, so that army could not get proper cloths or food for the soldiers. Then he blamed Krishna Menon for not doing enough. Morarji Desai was a CIA agent. Know your friends and enemies. USA never did anything for us.
RE:China's claim on Tawang
by s deshpande on Jun 24, 2007 02:16 AM Permalink
Hi there Blogman and Deepak Bose, Friends, I dunno how old you both are. But I am old enough to have seen that war and still remember every day of it vividly. United States did send an aircraft carrier.China knew it and hence withdrew its troops from Tawang. If your generation does not believe in what I say, perhaps you will believe in 'Wikipedia'. Please go through this link to know the facts htt//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino_Indian_War#Ceasefire Not only that, they had sent aircraft loaded with the then modern weaponry as Indian army had only 303 guns at that time to fight with. Our defence workshops were manufacturing household utensils at that time because Nehru felt and maintained that India would not need any weaponry as it had no enemies and that China was India's 'Bhai'. And when China did attack India, Nehru wept that 'China stabbeed him in the back'! After the China war, India started manufacturing real defence equipment in those workshops.
RE:China's claim on Tawang
by the blogman on Jun 27, 2007 05:41 PM Permalink
dear mr deshpande, if u r relying on wikipedia, u need to refer elsewhere. this site is a free-for-all. any1 can write any crap & claim their views to be true.
RE:China's claim on Tawang
by s deshpande on Jun 27, 2007 07:51 PM Permalink
Hi blogman, I rely on myself as I have witnessed that war period from the first to the last day. I do not blame you for not relying on the facts I have given. I thought, PERHAPS you may believe in wikipedia, if not in me. So I referred it to you. If you think, that everything in the world including the wikipedia is unreliable, I cannot argue with you. I have nothing except my word to give in support of the information I have given because I KNOW that what I said are facts. I must tell you that it was a headline in almost all Indian newspapers when an American aircraft carrier was sent to help us. And only then the chinese started withdrawing. I have personally read those news. Of course, I have no reason to disbelieve you about Russian T64 tanks having pressurized the chinese. It may be one of the factors, but may not be the only one. However, I do not remember to have read such a news then about T 64 tanks; but I am confident about the information I have given. Air forces were not used in that war by both the sides. And the air support offered by the USA made the difference & only then and the chinese withdrew.India-US relations were not that bad then. They deteriorated after Kennedy.
RE:China's claim on Tawang
by the blogman on Jun 28, 2007 03:33 PM Permalink
dear mr. deshpande, i must say you have an extremely polite way of disagreeing with others' views & i respect that very much. specifically wrt the wikipedia entry that you are referring, i have to say that its credibility is questionable due to the following facts: 1) the fact about wikipedia being a free-for-all. i do rely on this site for a lot of useful info, but i always make it point to do reference checks on them, especially critical aspects of an article. FYI, wikipedia itself contains a statement in this context which says that the chinese retreated after claiming what they thought was their land occupied by india. they cud hv advanced, but they chose not to based on diplomatic considerations. 2) i hv no reason to disbelieve your statement that the US sent an aircraft carrier at the said time. but the contention that the purpose was to pressurise teh chinese is a little hard to digest. the US had sent their carrier in 1971 as well. people perceive to this day that it was to pressurise india in their stand-off versus pakistan. but the perception has a corollary too - the action may have been to pressurise pakistan frm doing anything stupid. can any1 vouch for or against either of these viewpoints ? 3) the media of that time may not have been any different frm wat it is today. a couple of papers may have presented both sides of the view - the carrier being there to pressurise china / india. relying on perceptions which are multi-dimensional is questionable. 4) in
RE:China's claim on Tawang
by s deshpande on Jun 29, 2007 03:11 AM Permalink
Dear Blogman, If you desire, you may please refer to www.ngsw.org/coldwar/missileframes.html. On this site, you will actually get the de-classified tapes of Kennedy talking. (donated to a US university after de-classification.) I shall not quote words but there is a date and the time at which Kennedy discussed this war with Indian Ambassador to US as "one anti communist with another anti communist" accusing Russia of just sitting and not helping India in the then ongoing Sino-Indian war.This is a casette of 71 minutes and they are now selling it for $6/-.You may also refer to www.tibet.ca/en/wtnarchive/2005/8/25_2.htmlof World Tibet news published by Canada Tibet Committee. There is another very interesting site www.centurychina.com/plaboard/uploads/1962war.htm and gives a summary of "India's China War" by Neville Maxwell.It completely gives how Nehru abandoned his policy of Non alignment to beg military support from the US & how US quickly flew first supplies from West Germany which began "landing in India 5 days later". The decision to accept US offer of aid was taken in a cabinet meeting on 29 th October,62. So Blogman, as per your advise to me in your 1st letter to get my facts right, I have done so & I find my facts correct. You said "US never sent any crap" is also not correct. Nehru begged and they sent. I would now request you to kindly let me have at least some website which confirms your information of pressure by T64 tanks at the time of that war. Regards.
RE:China's claim on Tawang
by Manoj on Jun 29, 2007 05:54 PM Permalink
Hi, History is always a view from one side. I visited China once for a s/w project and had a talk with some of my colleagues there. They say we, India attacked china first and china retaliated. In India we believe the other ways. Both sides may have proof. Then look at other sources, say US. But US/Britain are famous for writing *History* to their advantage. Since English became the world language they have an edge in propaganda also. I really doubt china is worried abt a strong India. They are more worried that by playing on China phobia, US may make India their base. And they know that India is week and can bend to US ( as seen several times) demands. I personally feel India should worry more abt US/Western leadership on world than China. If China becomes all powerfull (it is now sevaral times powerful than India, as anybody knows) then again u have the complete West against them, so India should not worry much. But if China is contained as West wants it, then u will have more Iraqs/Iran in the world in this and next centuary.
RE:China's claim on Tawang
by marigold on Jun 23, 2007 08:19 AM Permalink
Can you tell me why the BJP did not fire a single bullet towards Pakistan when the parliament was attacked? What message was it trying to give the Pakistanis by mobilizing the army and the quietly withdrawing ? In a way Pakistan has been better than India because even after so many lost wars they kept making their military stronger and we have come to a point where we cannot afford any war with Pakistan. While Pakistan keeps on demanding Kashmir inspite of the losses it suffered, India never had to guts to ask China for the occupoied lands because that one loss to China has instilled deep fear in the hearts of Indian army. The Indian army is yet to recover from the humiliating defeat suffered at the hands of Chinese.
RE:China's claim on Tawang
by s deshpande on Jun 23, 2007 09:08 AM Permalink
Hi marigold, I agree with you there. At that time, NDA government had the chance to teach a lesson of life to Pakistan, which they wasted. But we have not given them 55 years like congress. In just 5 years of tenor, perhaps they did not want a big war. But that is no excuse.
RE:China's claim on Tawang
by on Jun 23, 2007 10:28 PM Permalink
china if they wanted, could have entered india. Maybe taken whole of north india. Even today, in a man to man fight indians will get defeated by chinese easily. Just look at olympics and decide. India/pakisthan/afganisthan/bangladesh/ are the weakest ppl. They can only boast. But when it when it comes to real thing, they are lazy. Compare with china, korea, japan. Theese ppl just shut up and work hard and produce results. Learn from them. Dont even think of a war with any east asian countries. If you want fight a war, take on bangladesh, pakisthan, srilanka, afganistahn, iran, iraq. We will then know the best among the worst. heheha
RE:China's claim on Tawang
by s deshpande on Jun 29, 2007 10:27 PM Permalink
Hi Manoj, Chinese are not saints as you think they are. So as not to repeat them, I request you to read all my letters from this correspondence. I have sited examples of how the chinese say one thing and do exactly opposite. I have also referred to a few of their deeds against India which they performed on purpose. I agree with you that there is an entire different version of the war from the chinese point of view and it is justified to a very limited extent too. But that does not in any way make the chinese any different than the world thinks they are! They occupied Tibet, They claim Formosa as their own land, They claim Arunachal Pradesh as their own, They claim Sikkim, They have already occupied Aksai Chin, They have claimed some land from the Russian side too. They are no good. Their contention that India attacked first is also not true. As per Nehru's 'Forward Policy' we only tried to reply by creating a border post in front of each one they created IN OUR LAND, which they keep claiming as theirs! Irrespective of the fact that westerners make the history suitable to them, there is no doubt that the chinese would not have withdrawn had the U.S. not sent the military aid to India, including an aircraft carrier as per Nehru's request. At that time, Russia did not help India in any way.
RE:China's claim on Tawang
by the blogman on Jun 30, 2007 02:51 PM Permalink
mr. deshpande, it was kind of you to have given me references. your reliance on wikipedia was an aberration compared with wat u hv given in yr latest post. & i wudnt b surprised if yr final post led to a feeling of self-congratulation. but, following is my response that you may like to chew on. i do not hv any flippant links or posts to validate my statement that the russian t 64s were indeed responsible for china's withdrawal. the only reference i hv is my father's official diary. for obvious reasons, i cant divulge his details, but just FYI he was a senior military officer in the MoD who had access to info which yr bombastic press of that time did not. believing or not is yr prerogative, but i stand by my statement that the US did not send any crap at that time. yr statement that russia sat & watched the drama unfold is speculative & highly derogatory of an ally that stood by india in a time of crisis. if someday, my dad decides to "declassify" his diary, u & other unenlightened souls in this subject can have a field day.
RE:RE:China's claim on Tawang
by s deshpande on Jul 01, 2007 01:45 PM Permalink
Hi Blogmanjee, I had started to like you. But from your last letter to me, a respect has replaced that liking. I am now certain about your greatness because of the fact that you share some great military secrets with your dad; those which are not even shared by the President of America, Prime Minister of India nor any other person in the world for that matter except the great you and your dad! I fully agree now that even the de-classified tapes of the then US President, are meaningless against your dad's 'official' diary. The picture is clear in my mind. You got to be the son of the then Premiere Nikita Khruschev to have access to such secrets. But then, I keep musing, can the Russian Premiere be so irresponsible as to write those secrets in his official diary & then allow its access to his great son? Like u said, I AM congratulating myself-- not because the information I gave turned out to be absolutely correct, not because I could quote lots of websites confirming that, and absolutely not because you had to take support, like a child, of this legendary diary of your dad to prove your non existant point in absence of any website supporting you--, but to have met an important person who has favoured me with the privilege to become the third person to share this great secret; secret because nobody else, no newspapers, no books, no websites, seem to know about it! I realize now, the greatest personalities are those, who consider every other thing than their ego as 'crap'.
RE:China's claim on Tawang
by saif kashmiri on Jun 24, 2007 01:23 AM Permalink
u are right only after US intervened we could save AP.regarding russians they were supplying weapons to both india and china.to china weapons supplied were more effected than those supplied to india.there was a famous saying in soviet brass that china is our brother and india is our friend.also veteran communist leader EMS Namboodiripad pressed moscow to take a pronounced pro -china stand during sino-indian border conflict of 1962.
It was becoming apparent after Chinese ambassador's claim on Arunachal Pradesh just before Chinese premier's (or was it the president?) last visit to India that simple negotiations and discussions across the table is not going to solve this issue unless it is backed by military-economic strength and deft diplomatic maneuvering. Despite counterclaims, India has made some efforts in diplomatically containing China by joining with US, Japan and Australia. We also need to reach out to states contiguous to China such as Vietnam, Kampuchea, and Laos with more involvement in their economic development leading to our military presence there. I recall an article by K. Subramanyam some 20 years back about how China could easily get control of Burmese jungles in the north and threaten India's eastern states from South. Chinese have succeeded i doing something better. They already have a port in Burma and and another one at Gwadar in Pakistan. Chinese have made overtures to SAARC member in Indian Ocean for more engagement which India is finding difficult to counter. With India's missile capability and nuclear deterrence, it would be difficult for china to conduct a raw military operation like the one in 1962. However, they can force us down by encircling us, which we need to avoid and counter with our own encirclement of China.
RE:Tawang: Some Indian plain-speaking at last!
by s deshpande on Jun 28, 2007 06:31 AM Permalink
Chinese do such things on purpose. You may remember when Atal Bihari Bajpayee was our External Affairs Minister, he had visited China. When he was still in China, their army attacked our forward posts and hit our dozen bunkers. It was their way to show us that they do not give a damn to the fact that our EA minister was their guest. However, Indian army retaliated and demosished more than twenty chinese forward post bunkers. Long back, when Chou En Li, the Chinese premier visited India in Nehru's time, he was entertained as a guest even to the extent that Nehru accompanied him to our National Defence Academy at Khadakwasla, Pune and showed him how we trained our military officers! At that time, both chanted 'Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai'. Immediately afterwards in 1962, China attacked us. I am not surprised they claimed Tawang just before the visit of the present chinese president. They say one thing and do exactly opposite. They are better quarreling with us than being friendly because their being friendly means they actually hate us! Their history with us shows that they ARE backstabbers. I think George Fernandes was the greatest of our Defence Ministers so far. Because he openly said on TV that we are not concerned about Pakistan at all despite their gimmicks and that Pakistan will not remain if they try to use their nukes against India. He had further openly said that our nuclear weapon programme is mostly directed against China.
RE:Never trust the Chinese
by David Dak on Jun 27, 2007 10:53 AM Permalink
You are dreaming. Even USA could not defeat Chinese. Indian, do not think about it to fight Chinese. Your Indian are only big mouth. For the real fight, you are coward. Chinese always do what they say. If they say that Arunachal is their land, they will get it eventaully, no matter what your Indian think and say. That is your nightmare.
