contd ... I exhort all self respecting Indians to reject with all your might that this draconian classification of men into sub human beings and hence refusal for them to even visit the shrine of the almighty was indeed laid down by Adi Sankara. I side with Shri Ravi when he says that this is Brahminical arrogance or its vestigial carryover from the mighty days of the old. In the guise of "laid down by Adi Sankara" can any nonsense be allowed? The heriditary system of priesthood should be questioned; its traditions are highly suspect and likely to be tainted with the unequal social systems prevelant during its perpetuation and the perpetration of such inhuman measures must be curtailed at any cost.
Secondly, he brings in an ISRO scientist to support his case. It is quite pathetic to see that this ISRO scientist, educated in institutions like RECs and IITs funded by Indian taxpayers, is also tied down by the tradition and its inhuman practises. What use is his education and knowledge of space and heavens if he is blind to what is happening around him and right here in our soil? The scientist should be stripped off his scientist post and his pension and other governmental payments must be stopped right forth if he is hand in glove with activities that go against the spirit of Indian constitution.
I support Shri Ravi in this crusade, for once he will find the communists - who were spineless on some of these issues in the days of EMS - will support him and he should tak
There are 3 parts to my message. It was reported for abuse and removed by the moderator when presented under the first part of this interview. I request the readers to verify and judge for themselves what is abusive in my message contents. Looks like some active zealots in the posters here who would not want the questions that I raised to be discussed here. It also appears that the moderator is one among them!
I am appalled by the contents of the reply given by the High Priest of Gurovayoor temple Raman Namboodiripad.
For one thing, he insists that the traditions of the temple and the rules of the temple as are laid down by Adi Sankara. I refuse to believe that Adi Sankara who said that the essence of Man and God are one and the same "Advaitha" would EVER have laid out this arbitrary rule of "Punyaaham". In effect, this "tradition" equates the mere presence of a human being to that of Vomit, Incontinence, Dogs piss and such items of material nature bringing back memories of a past where some castes were considered even beneath the level of sight and touch. I challenge the priest to produce any documentary evidence to support this. The same temple had until half a century back disallowed the so called lower castes from visiting it - was this again laid down by Adi Sankara? I exhort all self respecting Indians to reject with all your might that this draconian classification of men into sub human beings and hence refusal for them to even visit the shrine of the almi
There is no point in compairing Indian religions with Christinity and Islam and saying that since these religions discriminate, it's okay for Hindus to discriminate too. The Abhramic religions like Christinity and Islam come from a very narrow minded middle eastern mentality. These religions try to control every aspect of peoples lives and call the followers of other paths to Gods as their enemies. The Indian religions are much better though the Tanthris are in the same league as a padri and an imam, in terms of their lack of empathy for other religions.
If you don't want to fix something you put the responsibity on others. This is what the Tanthri is doing. The Tanthris hate lower caste Hindus (since the past 5000 years) so he says he cannot end discrimination and challanges the law to end it. He knows that the law and justice process in India is slow and flawed and hence he can continue with discrimination for a very long time. Everyday in India, the municipal corporations and corrupt politicians play this trick of putting the responsibility of fixing the system on someone else. British had a tradition of colonism, Americans had a tradition of slavery, terrorists have a tradition of murdering innocents, thieves have a tradition of stealing, does it make these evil practices right? I don't think so. If tradition encourages evil discrimination, it needs to be abolished. Like the Tanthris before him this Tanthris has put his caste supremacy intrests above the national intrests. He like Hinduism and his caste supremacy thousand times more than the love for India and justice and equality.
RE:Another interview posted
by Tinda on Jun 07, 2007 06:30 PM Permalink
These people have a deliberate strategy to rile Hindus. Rediff has a strong support of the church. They will not allow this thing to settle down easily.
Their real aim is to get a law passed that would give missionaries the legal right to enter Hindu temples and proseltyse.
"ibn salam was appointed by jews themselves. His decision was obligatory on Mohammad PBUH too. His verdict was in accordance with torah , jewish sacred book.".
I have a problem with this line of argument. Prophet is asid to be Apostle of God. If something was wrong with Torah, he ought to have overruled it and pointed the right waty to mankind that surrendered people should not be killed.
"Rather than waiting to gain more maturity, you have decided to become an activist.
Internet gives you anonymosity, that means learned among you will not have a chance to guide you.
You rely heavily on third grade shallow websites, whose only purpose is to twist facts to abuse muslims, quran and Islam.
these fact may not allow you to swallow any truth, if it goes agianst your preformed opinion".
These words of yours stimulate my thinking and I will certainly reflect on it if this is the case with me. But instead of using adjectives like shallow ec. why not give facts to disprove them wrong? Why dont u debate in these sites so visitors will get your views also???
regarding those websites which twist facts to abuse muslims. I do not rate them more than third grade, not becoz they are agisnst muslims, but becoz of the dishonest ways they twist the facts
there are many muslims who counter their arguement. and those people who visit those sites for the purpose of aquiring some knowledge realise the disparity. However those people who visit the sites in search of 'masala' to set score with muslim bloggers pay attention selectively to those items which go against them.
RE:RE:Abdul Hameed
by Anand Iyer on Jun 07, 2007 07:01 PM Permalink
Mnay muslims who counter arguments do not ahve knowledge of scriptures. They parrot merely all arguments told to them. study scriptures and demolish their logic brick by brick with facts.
RE:stone gods
by Surendra Akkaraju on Jun 07, 2007 05:39 PM Permalink
Catholics fight protestants and needless to say there are many sects in Christianity. There are many a forms of Islam too. Sunnis and Shias are at logger-heads. Is religion the problem? Mr.Joseph, it is not religion that needs to be blamed but the individuals who are ignorant to understand one. I can answer each of your questions, but does it change your way of thinking? Make humanity your religion. Stop blaming and start thinking
RE:stone gods
by Barbarik on Jun 07, 2007 06:00 PM Permalink
well done dheeraj. shabash mere sher. tumne chhe ke chhe ball maidan ke bahar maar diye.
a predominantly christian country like usa does not have a woman / black president / chief of army staff. whereas a hindu dominated country like india has had a woman prime minister, muslim presidents, muslim cricket captains and parsi army chief of staff. the very fact that other religion people can write such stuff against hindus while living in india shows how tolerant and liberal hindus are. imagine if a hinduy had written against christianity in italy or against islam in saudi arabia - his hands would have been chopped off. So who is more civilised? these muslims and christians or we hindus? of course it is we hindus who are civilised. when a christian girl marries a hindu boy, she is never compelled to convert to hinduism. Whereas when a hindu girl marries a christian boy she has to convert to christianity. We hindus who have a great dharma of sanatana dharma and a rich civilisation / culture existing more than 5000 years need learn culture from people who were barbarians just about 1500 years and continue to be barbarians even after becoming christians or muslims. VANDE MATARAM.
You wrote, "when a christian girl marries a hindu boy, she is never compelled to convert to hinduism". You are right! She is never compelled, but this eternal virgin compels her husband to convert.
In my neighbour's family, husband is a Brahmin and wife is a Christian. The family practises Christianity. Their children are Christians. It is always Hindus who need to convert to these stupid, shit religions.
Among our stupid friends, we have a Hindu family, which converted into Christianity more than 20 years back. But, some of their relatives are still Hindus (fortunately). A stupid Hindu boy among the Hindu relatives fell in love with a daughter of our Christian friends. Now, this Christian family is insisting that they will give their virgin daughter in marriage, only if the stupid Hindu boy too converts to Christianity and gets saved saved by the blood of Jesus.
RE:RE:Rationalist -see this.
by Barbarik on Jun 07, 2007 06:06 PM Permalink
You are again absolutely right Dheeraj. No point in arguing with morons. Whenever hindu kings [like rajputs] used to go out on expeditions they used to take their wives with utmost caution and luxury in paalkis - so that their women are comfortable and if enemy attacks then they would be safe. Whereas when muslims used to go out on expeditions, they wud always made women folk "walk" in front so that if the enemy attacks, then the women would die first. Wah kya mardaangi hai. Please remember that manhood is not proved by producing 25 children from 5 wives. A true man is one who becomes a shield and protects the womenfolk in his house (mother, wife daughter).
RE:RE:RE:Rationalist -see this.
by Vas on Jun 07, 2007 06:18 PM Permalink
Well, the muslims paraded their woman first in the battle field, because it was their practice to kidnap/rape women of other commnities and captured kingdoms for sexual gratification. Hence, they considered their own women as dispensible commodities that can be transacted, traded, abused, and replaced easily. Look at how Saudi Arabian society is.
RE:Rationalist -see this.
by SHAHRUKH NIZAMI on Jun 07, 2007 05:16 PM Permalink
So you mean In Gita its written that you must take DNA test for proving who is your father?? LOL. You cant understand simple logic.
RE:RE:Rationalist -see this.
by Anand Iyer on Jun 07, 2007 05:23 PM Permalink
U see. In hindu traditions, the wise say things only when asked. No question in this regard was asked by Arjuna and therefore no answer given.
But why DNA tests r not mentioned in Quran which is claimed as a divine revealation?
RE:RE:RE:Rationalist -see this.
by SHAHRUKH NIZAMI on Jun 09, 2007 12:23 PM Permalink
Quran doesn't permit more than one husband to a woman, like Draupadi having 5. so its no question of having DNA test to know who is the father. Its a headace of draupadi to take her childs DNA test and know who is the father.
RE:Rationalist -see this.
by RATIONALIST on Jun 07, 2007 05:13 PM Permalink
What about at the time of Mahabharat had occured, can you do DNA tests to Draupadi. If Draupadi had children and which one belonged to whom let us know??? It would be an enlightening chapter that will be disclosed.????
RE:Rationalist -see this.
by Anand Iyer on Jun 07, 2007 05:16 PM Permalink
Hi. Quran is said to be revealed by Allah. Why Allah did not reveal in Quran that the DNA tests r possible????
Mahabharata (except Gita) is not divine Revealataion. Nobody claims so.
RE:RE:Rationalist -see this.
by RATIONALIST on Jun 07, 2007 05:20 PM Permalink
The message or Koran and Allah is only for the Sane people, not revealed for the animals
Insane and mad people need psychic treatment, not the teachings of any holy book.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Rationalist -see this.
by Vas on Jun 07, 2007 06:04 PM Permalink
"Rationalist"
The more YOU talk, the more you convince others that muslims are useless in debating, because they lack the cognitive ability to reason, analyse and discuss. They simply rant and rage, way their swords about and hurl abuses. The whole world(except the muslim world) has this opinion and image of the muslims (as people who CANNOT reason becasue they lack the intellectual ability to do so). And what you are doing is fitting that stereotype very well. Thanks for making the job of putting down islam easy for the rest of us.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Rationalist -see this.
by RATIONALIST on Jun 07, 2007 05:31 PM Permalink
ha ha ha, you lost the debate and reported it by yourself abuse. great. Mr. Anand, may be you are anand (happy) now.????
RE:RE:RE:Rationalist -see this.
by SHAHRUKH NIZAMI on Jun 09, 2007 12:41 PM Permalink
Because Quran doesn't permit more than one husband to one woman. so there is no need to have DNA test to know who is the father. but Draupadi has that situation to know who is the father?????
RE:RE:Rationalist -see this.
by SHAHRUKH NIZAMI on Jun 09, 2007 12:38 PM Permalink
Because Quran doesnt permit more than one husband to one woman. so there is no need to have DNA test to know who is the father. but Draupadi has that situation to know who is the father.
RE:RE:Rationalist -see this.
by JGN on Jun 07, 2007 05:49 PM Permalink
Mr. Anand, even Bhagvad Gita is not considered as Devine Revealation. Gita is in fact the advice given by Lord Krishna to Arjun to carryout his duties irrespective of personal emotions for the sake of saving Dharma. Unlike those who believe in "one book" for Hindus nothing is sacoscrant and nobody will attack another (irrespective of Religion) telling that our book says so. That is the basic difference between semetic religions and hinduism.
RE:RE:Rationalist -see this.
by SHAHRUKH NIZAMI on Jun 09, 2007 12:36 PM Permalink
Because Quran doesnt permit more than one husband to one woman. so there is no need to have DNA test to know who is the father. but Draupadi has that situation to know who is the father.
RE:RE:Rationalist -see this.
by Anand Iyer on Jun 07, 2007 05:26 PM Permalink
Even if one man has 4 wives what is gurantee taht he is father of all? Conclusive evidence can only be DNA test.
RE:RE:RE:Rationalist -see this.
by SHAHRUKH NIZAMI on Jun 07, 2007 05:34 PM Permalink
so you believe in conclusive DNA test? SO POOR RAM... In his time there was no DNA test thats why he cant prove to people that sita was untouched. And hope Mr. Anand Lyer your whole family has did DNA test for proving who is the father. LOL..
RE:RE:RE:RE:Rationalist -see this.
by Anand Iyer on Jun 07, 2007 05:40 PM Permalink
Good . In a debate the amount of personal abuses one receives from an opponent is the index of how helpless the opponent is against arguments.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Rationalist -see this.
by SHAHRUKH NIZAMI on Jun 07, 2007 05:45 PM Permalink
Sorry if i hurt you personally my intension was not to hurt you but I wanted you to be practical by puting you personally in that situation and then think it.
RE:RE:RE:Rationalist -see this.
by Gazanfar Z Azmi on Jun 07, 2007 10:40 PM Permalink
Anand , I think you have a doubt if you realt father fathered you...
If you bother to read the Mahabharata, you would know that Draupadi followed a strict schedule to be fair to all her husbands - so the issue of paternity of her children was not in question!
RE:Is Abdul hameed rediff moderator?
by Anand Iyer on Jun 07, 2007 05:37 PM Permalink
Moderator participating in debate is like umpire fielding a shot hit by batsman.
U guys make life difficult for reformist hindus. Strictly speaking u guys have no business to expect entry in hindu temples. Hindus r not allowed in Mecca . This is stritly hindus' internal matter. By posting u guys r diverting energies of eformist hindus like myself, Dheeraj and Bhaskar. U guys abuse hinduism without justification. So we r also constrained to tell u what u guys do. So leave this forum for us hindus. We will debate pros and cons and determine the course of action to be taken.
RE:Dear muslims and Xtians
by George Abraham on Jun 07, 2007 05:14 PM Permalink
If you guys stick to the topic then we don't want to interfere. But while discussing you are spitting venom against other religions.
RE:RE:Dear muslims and Xtians
by Anand Iyer on Jun 07, 2007 05:20 PM Permalink
Things spun out of control only when u guys came on Board. I was debating Dheearaj and others. See my posts. I told them what others do we neednot necessarily imitate. We should do good things regardless of what others do. U Xtians and muslims made debate go out of control.
RE:Dear muslims and Xtians
by George Abraham on Jun 07, 2007 05:35 PM Permalink
Read the following messages posted earlier in the day. Why is that a fashion to insult Hindus, or act against Hindu interests. by sai ganesh on Jun 06, 2007 08:16 PM | Hide replies
Why dont people criticize or talk about Islam, they are afraid of Islam because Muslims will kill them if they talk bad about them.
Fine ! Great Idea by anand padmarajan on Jun 06, 2007 07:59 PM | Hide replies
Why only a law that says everyone can enter the temple. Why not a law which says any one can enter any place of worship.. so i can enter a MOSQUE and CHURCH and there should be no discrimination for any who enters any place of worship
Don't you all think this is being "SECULAR?"
Popes and Priests the Same - Autocratic by Bala Saaheb on Jun 06, 2007 08:21 PM | Hide replies
Quotes from the Priest (Pope)
"We are supposed to be in a paternal relationship -- pithrusthanam, the position of father (pope)" funds for haj and christian missionaries by vinoth chandrasekar on Jun 06, 2007 08:46 PM | Hide replies i forgot to touch andhra, the idiotic YSR, he is a christian, he uses tiupathi money for HAJ and missionaries. every where in india, imams and fathers get salary where hindu priest gets hardly 200 or 300 which is nothing, for haj and jerusalem yatras govt gives money , not for temples...
Do you think these messages are relevant to the topic. See someone attacks one's religion naturally one will try to express his views. That is what happened.
RE:Dear muslims and Xtians
by Anand Iyer on Jun 07, 2007 05:41 PM Permalink
Yeah! All these started coming in only when Xtians and muslims came on board.
RE:Dear muslims and Xtians
by Sarath Chandra on Jun 07, 2007 11:40 PM Permalink
Anand, you've been making some very good points of late. But I have an objection to the above message in particular.
It is ok to think that after those 4-5 guys who happen to be christians and muslims came, the debate degenerated. But I think it will be much better if we use their names and treat them as individuals than branding them as christians and muslims. We don't want all hindus to be branded bad just because some hindu somewhere commits a crime, do we?
RE:Dear muslims and Xtians
by rakarapu kumar on Jun 07, 2007 05:45 PM Permalink
Dear anand We are the followers of JESUS CHRIST and so we are CHRISTIANS and not Xtians as you mentioned.please think twice before making a statement
RE:Dear muslims and Xtians
by RATIONALIST on Jun 07, 2007 04:51 PM Permalink
Yes, I agree with you partially, Anand.
This the beauty of country like India. Unity in Diversity. Hindus should be in their temples, muslims in their mosques, and christians in their churches, but everyone should be united.
But the point is, if you examine the entire rediff board, the percentage of abuse to different religions is like this (simply check the 357 messages):
Abuse to Muslims: 70% Abuse to Hindus: 20% Abuse to Christians: 10%
So, if the abuse to any community stops, then there can be a rational and sane discussion.
All these discussion are leading to no where.
Just abuse, abuse and more abuse. I think people will now stay on the content of the topic and reply.
I have also an another recommendation:
The writer of the articles in rediff.com is writing statements, without any valid proofs. This is one way communication. He writes some sane or insane article and runs away.
The questions asked in the forum should be answerable by the Writer of the Article. Where is he? Why is he not coming into the scenario to reply to some valid questions posted by the rediff.com members.
RE:Dear muslims and Xtians
by Vas on Jun 07, 2007 06:09 PM Permalink
Its just not the Rediff readers that have criticisms against the muslims, but the whole world (except the muslim world of course), because the muslims, wherever they live, are seen as being unreasonable, difficult, intolerant of other religions, biased, aggressive, violent, and having no moral boundaries. I live in Europe and know how much the muslims are hated by everyone - people of all other religions, atheists, agnostics, and just about every other social group or community. How sad it must be, to belong to a community that everyone hates, fears and don't want anywhere near them! Aren't you muslims ashamed of yourselves, or are you proud to be the most hated group in the world?
RE:Dear muslims and Xtians
by Anand Iyer on Jun 07, 2007 05:00 PM Permalink
There r these so-called abuses to muslims and christains becoz they unjustifiable critise huindu religion without even quoting chapter and verse of hindu scriptures.
The issue here is not hindu religion but the action of a priest of a temple. So what business had muslims and xtians to interfere. If u see, most posts against muslims and xtians were actions which they do. What is abuse in pointing out facts. Is citing verses of Quran "abuse"against muslims?????
RE:Dear muslims and Xtians
by SHAHRUKH NIZAMI on Jun 07, 2007 05:02 PM Permalink
Anand I dont believe how can you say this.. you said Gita preaches all humankind is equal. then why you are against Muslims and Xtians?? LOL.
RE:RE:Dear muslims and Xtians
by Anand Iyer on Jun 07, 2007 05:18 PM Permalink
I am against all wrong things and criticise them .See my posts criticising the priests' actions. U non-hindus messed things up by mudslinging at hindu religion whereas issie was the action of a particular person.
So I had to respond by pointing out things in Xtianity and Islam.
RE:Dear muslims and Xtians
by SHAHRUKH NIZAMI on Jun 09, 2007 12:28 PM Permalink
clarify who are "ignorant evil people"? who belives in one god are ignorant aur who believes in stones, animals, etc.. etc.. things are ignorant?
