Why not have a law that allow all Shias to enter sunni mosques, all blacks to enter churches of whites, all catholics to enter protestant churches, all dalit christians to enter "Brahmin" churches ....
In fact make a law that makes it legal for infidels and pagans to enter heaven of Islam and Christianity.
Why pagans and infidels are denied entry into heavens of Muslim and Christian faiths? They have 100 percent reservation only in their hell.
RE:RE:RE:1
by Akash Malhotra on Jun 07, 2007 12:37 AM Permalink
Dada forget about Mosques, just try to visit Krishna temple in Gujrat , Jamnagar which is near Jamnagar railway station.
Tell the temple prist that you are a bong and eat Non Veg. I am sure you will be kicked so hard that you will end up at the railway station.
haha..true. Hindus will never agree religiously with its finer points.
That's why Savarkar, a visionary, thought about Hindutva. Its one step above that, hinduness, similar culture, following many similar custom.
Gujaratis and Bengalis eating habit may be different (due to geography), there is much commonality between them in terms of rituals, traditions from birth to death.
RE:1
by Bala Saaheb on Jun 07, 2007 12:52 AM Permalink
What you are saying bong ... bongi huh Savarkar was a rationalist and not a Hindu, he told to eat meat, its okay to kill cows for eating ... do you agree with that bongi bhaskar???
RE:1
by Akash Malhotra on Jun 07, 2007 12:58 AM Permalink
I think you have very little knowledge about hinduism, It is not bengalis who eat non-veg many hindus eat non-veg and majority of rishimunis used to eat Meat and mainly beef. Food habits are not a criteria based on which a person should be allowed or disallowed in temples.
Bring a law to allow everyone in temples? What will happen if a dozen evangelists form a group and enter Tirupati and start distributing missionary literature? It is already happening in Tirupati.
This whole episode has been engineered by the church to get missionaries the legal right to enter temples and proselytise.
RE:s
by dtr on Jun 07, 2007 12:43 AM Permalink
You mean,
People will change after reading the missionary literature ?
would you still claim, Hinduism is fundamentally powerful?
Religions were supposed to be helping humans. You have to understand you religion first, then follow it. Blindly following anything, makes you a fool.
It is better to understand every religion and then accept one, that suites you.
What is the point in following a religion your ancestors following. Each and every human is so different from one another. Humans cannot even remotely preceive the difference.
RE:Ayodhya's proposed Ram temple's first brick was put by a Dalit!
by Bala Saaheb on Jun 07, 2007 12:20 AM Permalink
So, Dalits are the heroes of this century, they are the most eligible people in India to be the priests of all the temples.
All the Hindus should wake up and appoint them as the priests of all the temples.
RE:Ayodhya's proposed Ram temple's first brick was put by a Dalit!
by Inadvertently Human on Jun 07, 2007 12:22 AM Permalink
Yes. We shall do that. Provided this happens first:
1. No meat eating
2. No gambling
3. No sex outside marriage
4. No alchohol
5. No Smoking
6. Knowledgeable in Vedic chants and prayer
7. Three showers a day
8. Three prayers a day
9. Strick adherence to Vedas and Shastras
10. Observe all Hindu rituals and perform Penance.
Any so-called hero dalits willing to live this life?
RE:Ayodhya's proposed Ram temple's first brick was put by a Dalit!
by Inadvertently Human on Jun 07, 2007 12:40 AM Permalink
Then they are not Brahmins. I am sorry to say this but thats how it is. Bengali brahmins are the worst! They preach and turn aroung and eat fish. Such hyprocrites.
In my view, South Indian Brahmins are the most rigid followerd to Adi Shankara and great Vaishnavas like Madhwacharya and Ramanuja.
How the heck can u cook liquor inside Temple? No wonder Christians and Muslims make fun of us.
We need to implement a UCC first for ourselves.
How can you kill a life that doesnt belong to u and consume it? HOw can u call urself a Brahmana?
RE:Ayodhya's proposed Ram temple's first brick was put by a Dalit!
by Akshay Bhatt on Jun 07, 2007 02:56 AM Permalink
Stop this crap about non-veg? I am a veggie btw, but think rationally. Hinduism is the only religion in which you have the freedom of choice. You have a choice of God(in any form) in which you want to have your faith in.
Btw, if you think that Bengali Brahmins(I am from gujarat) are not brahmins, than what do you make of the Aghoris? who worship Shiva?
RE:RE:Ayodhya's proposed Ram temple's first brick was put by a Dalit!
by Bhaskar Chattopadhyay on Jun 07, 2007 12:51 AM Permalink
Hindus will never agree religiously with its finer points.
That's why Savarkar, a visionary, thought about Hindutva. Its one step above that, hinduness, similar culture, following many similar custom.
Gujaratis and Bengalis eating habit may be different (due to geography), there is much commonality between them in terms of rituals, traditions from birth to death.
RE:RE:RE:Ayodhya's proposed Ram temple's first brick was put by a Dalit!
by Bhaskar Chattopadhyay on Jun 07, 2007 12:52 AM Permalink
>>HOw can u call urself a Brahmana?
I DONOT believe in Caste by birth. My surname may be Chattopadhyay, but I don;t kep my "sacred thread", because I am NOT fit to be a Brahmin. It has to be earned, not passed by family.
Non-heriditory caste is the ONLY way out for Hindus.
You can not expect to run a caste system to get someone a Govt job in the reserved category.For the same reason you can not blame the caste system as the dalits entry into the temple has been banned. To me both the things are terrible shocking to humanity.Our Govt. must abolish the caste system to treat everyone in a similiar manner-let that be in the job or in the temple. Do you agree?
RE:It is a mess!
by Radhakrishnan V on Jun 07, 2007 12:22 AM Permalink
Caste system is not going to be abolished in near future. Bcos, that mints vote.
Religion is abused more than used. If reservations can be based on caste/religion ( though it says it is aimed at socially oppressed ) anything is possible with a "religion" tag.
If government thinks that the devaswoms are to be under govt control, please do not stop there bring all mosques, churches etc under its purview. Dont have minority ediucational institutions, bring all of them under the state.
No political party in India has the guts to fiddle with beliefs other than Hinduism and that is the sad part.
Bring temples under the Govt, you can stop all these non sense of not allowing a non Hindu inside the temple Try to bring churches under Govt control and see how much money they are sitting on. (foreign funds to convert)
Try to bring all mosques under the govt control and see that some of them not only teaches Islam , but also extremism ( with all due respect to beleivers of true ISlam )
RE:Forget
by Inadvertently Human on Jun 07, 2007 12:07 AM Permalink
BS! May be because they need a shower not because of their caste. You think there are secutoiry guards outside temples chceking everyones Caste ID?
Where do we find jacka&&es like u?
Dalits or for that matter, any person who has not bathed or who does not wear clean clothes can be forbidden inside the Temple.
The problem with u guys is that you are ready to jump to conclusions without sparing a moment to think.
RE:Forget
by Tinda on Jun 07, 2007 12:22 AM Permalink
Dalit christians are not allowed in churches either. They have their own separate graveyards, away from the "Brahmin" christians.
RE:Forget
by Inadvertently Human on Jun 07, 2007 12:33 AM Permalink
Dude. Stop using the word Brahmin in a derogotary sense. Brahmin means enlightment, pure, clean, knowlege, faith, control, desireless, compassion etc.
Are you reading missionary accounts? Dalits are not onky welcome to Hindu temples, they are now becoming priests and being taught on Priesthood in many schools run by VHP and Kahchi Sankaracharya amongst others.
RE:What if I want to go to Haj
by Bala Saaheb on Jun 07, 2007 12:29 AM Permalink
Bhaskar are you a pseudo Hindu, eager to visit for Hajj, so what if they do not allow Hindus. Hindus are better-off in temples.
RE:What if I want to go to Haj
by Bala Saaheb on Jun 06, 2007 11:52 PM Permalink
What if a non-Hindu wants to be a priest of a temple without getting converted, can become Priest of a temple??? The person will be very pure at heart, is that okay???
RE:What if I want to go to Haj
by Bala Saaheb on Jun 07, 2007 12:05 AM Permalink
Many Dargahs in India are run and are under the care of the Hindus. So we Hindus in turn should appoint some Mullah in our temples. It will be a good for a change. The world will be a better place to live. How about that???
RE:What if I want to go to Haj
by Inadvertently Human on Jun 07, 2007 12:14 AM Permalink
Hahahahahahahahahaha..............
I am trying to imagine a person wearing lungi and a white hat chating "Om Ganapathye Namah...Om Vishnave Namah...."
Dude...what the heck are u talking about. Let Muslims stay where they are, lets stay where we are. Let us not cross boundries, let us remain freinds with differences, let us not try to associate into each other personal or family business, let us not resort to violence.
Let us work to build Indian economically stronger and politically stabler.
Instead please dont come up with these crappy ideas.
RE:What if I want to go to Haj
by Radhakrishnan V on Jun 07, 2007 12:25 AM Permalink
yes..when the state steps in and say all are equal and no religious tag is going to give you an advantage when it comes to access, education, livelihood etc.
IF YOU ARE POWERFUL, IF YOU MAKE BLOODIES OF THE WARS, IF YOU CAN INVADE OTHER PEOPLE AND THEIR COUNTRIES (THEN BLAME THEM FOR BEING CASTISTS AND BACKWARD ETC TO JUSTIFY THE UNHOLY DISHONEST OCCUPATION ) WITH MODERN WARFARE AND UTMOST CRUELTY....YOU ARE THE BEST PEOPLE ON EARTH. THOSE WHO LOST THE WARS, ARE BAD PEOPLE AND THEY HAVE MANY DEFECTS...LOL, WHAT A GREAT CULTURE
Surva - if you eat meat, smoke, drink, dont take three showers a day, dont learn Vedas, dont chant the holy name of the Lord you are by default a shudra.
All these whites and mid-easterners are shudras. 99% of Indians are shudras. You and I are shudra!
Why dont u stop complaining and start following Brahminism? You wont. You just want to keep complaining thats it. See this shows u r clearly a shudra becauyse of ur ignorance, impurity and darkness.
Is blue is blue in color why do u complain the person who tell u it is blue?
Let me see how u answer this question.
Why dont u change your lifestlyle? Stop drinking, smoking, associating with women outside marriage, take 3 baths every days, pray three times a day, stop meat eating and stop gambling?
You can then become a Brahmana. If the priest follows these, then he is a Brahmana and what he did is absolutely right.
Let me see if u can give me a good explanaation without your "pseudo-secular" and "rational" angle.
RE:To Surya
by Surya on Jun 06, 2007 11:49 PM Permalink
Inadvertently Human
What makes you think that only Brahmana are "not drinking smoking,associating with women outside marriage,take 3 baths every days, pray three times a day, stop meat eating and stop gambling" There are lot many other who dont do what you say and there are lot many Brahmana who do that.
I want to follow Brahminism but there is a lot of problem with my biological background for the current brahmins.Who base their superiority only on biological descent which i think is anethma to human dignity.
RE:To Surya
by Inadvertently Human on Jun 06, 2007 11:57 PM Permalink
Why do u want to listen to humans? Just ignore them. Who are they to judge who they are. I am Brahmin by birth but I will be one to raise an objection if the Tantri had cleaned the temple premises for the entry of a person based on birth or caste.
The issue is not casteism. The issue is religion.
I have no business in a mosque so why do I need to go there? If u want to go to the temple then follow the temple rules.
As far as ur point is concerend, you dont need people to tell u who u r! You can quietly and pecaefully do your job and the Lord will take care of everything.
RE:To Surya
by dtr on Jun 07, 2007 12:18 AM Permalink
I know brahmins who don't take bath and smells like hell even from a mile away. Even if they take bath, they are only interested in pouring some water into their bodies, not really interested in cleaning it. There are good ones too. The point is, Brahminism didn't come from a particular group's life style. It was invented by some people (probably outsiders), who wanted to control the society. They claim, they are supposed to gain and teach knowledge. Who are they going to teach and for what? If people from other castes listen to their teachings and accept them, do they 'really' become brahmins? theoretically, they should. Or they cannot really 'grasp' what brahmins teach them, or not smart enough? You should become brahmin, only if you live like one, not if you are born into one.
RE:To Surya
by Inadvertently Human on Jun 07, 2007 12:36 AM Permalink
Yes you are correct. If u listen to a real Brahmins and follow Brahminism, you become a Brahmin as stated in Baghavad Gita "Chatur Varnam Maya Srishtam Guna Karma Vibhagasah" (Chapter 4).
Most children born to brahmins fathers are polluted with current Indian system so they cannot be classified as brahmins.
Instead of absuing Brahmins may be u can listen to what they are trying to imply and perhaps follow it.
Remember, Brahmin is a title of a person not just a name of communities.
RE:To Surya
by Ali on Jun 06, 2007 11:55 PM Permalink
Hey Inadvertently Human!
Nice Views, impressive I must say, taking current issue. As the saying goes "practice what you preach".
I am not a Hindu and will not follow Hinduism in future also, but what this person says looks very practical. I am following the discussions of this issue on this board since a few days and this person's views are something to be taken into account. Sorry, if it looks like interference in matter relating to Hinduism.
RE:RE:To Surya
by Inadvertently Human on Jun 07, 2007 12:03 AM Permalink
Thanks Ali. I assume you are a Musalman. If all Muslims are open-minded and peaceful as u r, then there is no reasons for Hindutva orgs like RSS, VHP to exist.
I agree with the priests view point. Also I am in Favour of Non Hindus also allowed into the temple as long as they are ready to follow certain rules and restrictions that are followed while entering these temples. Not all temples are rigid but some are. In these temples Non Hindus should follow those rules and maintain cleanliness, decorum, partake Prasad without any prejudice. As long as they are ready to do that everyone from every walks of life can be allowed into the temple. I dont give a Damn if Christians or Muslims or Parsis follow suit as I myself will rarely visit these places of Worship. Reforming Hinduism has to be about reforming Hinduism and not about what Kuwait does or Saudi Arabia does.
