Christians who try to enter Hindu temples should be beaten with shoes. They are just followign instructions from American churches to defile Hindu temples.
If Christians love Hindu gods so much, maybe they can install statue of Krishna next to Christ in a church.
These presumptiuons have an evil effect on hinbdu society. Becoz of such presumptions it becomes difficult to arrange matrimony within the hindu community. Therefore, what happens in many mixed marriages involving hindu is that child is brought up as a non-hindu (to avoid such problems). We should give Mr,. Ravi pluadits for having brought up his son, grandson etc as a hindu.
As far as I known, Mr. Vayalar Ravi's entire family practises Christianity. I really doubt whether he brought up his son and grandson as Hindus.
If Mr. Vayalar Ravi were a devoted Hindu, he wouldn't have done what he did and this controversy would not have started. Even if he is hurt by the PUNYAHAM ceremony, why should he make such a big issue out of it? There are many other issues.
I sincerely believe he is just playing politics. This is my very SINCERE assessment. I mean it. It all depends on what you SINCERELY think about Mr. Vayalar Ravi.
RE:Dheeraj
by Anand Iyer on Jun 06, 2007 03:58 PM Permalink
If xtians want to visit temples as a political stunt for hindu votes- I think yes what u say is right.
i am an atheist but I respect the norms and practices of all religions. kerala temples have long been different from the rest of the country...no trousers, shirts, slippers, ladies in only sarees, etc. thats a culture being handed down since ages and lets not attempt to dilute it. ravi krishna knew very well that there will be a cleansing ceremony after his child's ceremony....and by making an issue of it, he is just trying to flog an old horse, in this case, tradition. Non muslims are not allowed in mosque's ; is anyone crying their heart out to allow non moslems to enter them? This is a non issue; guruvayur will and always keep the tradition..if you dont like it, try another temple.
RE:let hindus follow thier concepts
by Anand Iyer on Jun 06, 2007 03:33 PM Permalink
Why r u jealous of yesudas? U also sing praises of Lord Krishna and prosper.
RE:let hindus follow thier concepts
by abdul rahim on Jun 06, 2007 03:36 PM Permalink
Thats a good one ,I apriciate it..!!!But i dont want to hurt u ...!!!Sorry..!!
RE:let hindus follow thier concepts
by Anand Iyer on Jun 06, 2007 03:37 PM Permalink
My intention was to point out that achieving anything takes efforts. Criticising is easy.
RE:RE:let hindus follow thier concepts
by Anand Iyer on Jun 06, 2007 04:16 PM Permalink
www.faithfreedom.org -Yeah! That freedom comes from verse no.63 of Chapter No.18 of Bhagvad Gita in which Lord Krishna says:"Reflect fully on my revealtions and then act as u please". He forbids humanityblindly believe even divine revealations. May be u might want to display this on your site.
RE:temple has to folow inherited rules
by Anand Iyer on Jun 06, 2007 03:31 PM Permalink
Should rules be enforced based on facts or based on presumptions? Should they be enforced fairly or arbitrarily?
"The problem was with Ravikrishna, who is the son of a Christian mother and thus presumed to be a non-Hindu.
As per the prescribed rites of the temple, we are supposed to carry out a punyaham when we know that a non-Hindu has entered the temple...."
Enforcement of rules is one thing. Arbitrariness should not be there. The tanthri equates "presumption of a fact" with "knowledge of a fact". That is the real and immediate problem. He is taking decisions based on assumptions and presumptions.
RE:The issue is arbitrariness of a particular individual
by Sriram Vangal on Jun 06, 2007 03:16 PM Permalink
No Anand, he is very clear. He concedes, many non hindus visit the temple everyday. But it goes un noticed. But when it comes to the notice of the tantri, he has to take purification steps. As an Iyer, I am sure you will have a bath, when u hear some relative has expored. You have to do it only when it comes to your knowledge. Any way, why should Ravikrishna visit the temple, when punyaham was performed after his marriage? It is only to try and gain some political milage
RE:The issue is arbitrariness of a particular individual
by Anand Iyer on Jun 06, 2007 03:20 PM Permalink
"As an Iyer, I am sure you will have a bath, when u hear some relative has expored." TRUE. But I wont presume that my relative has died and based oin such presumption take a bath.
RE:The issue is arbitrariness of a particular individual
by Sriram Vangal on Jun 06, 2007 03:22 PM Permalink
But it is a fact that Ravikrishna, son of a non hindu has visited the temple. He came to know of it from press reports and ordered punyaham. I don't find any anomaliy in that.
RE:The issue is arbitrariness of a particular individual
by Anand Iyer on Jun 06, 2007 03:25 PM Permalink
Who is the press to decide people's faith? He should have given Ravikrishna an opportunity to submit affidavit or for example swear sloemnly in front of the Lord that he is a hindu.
RE:The issue is arbitrariness of a particular individual
by prathibh on Jun 07, 2007 05:55 AM Permalink
@Senthil Gounder,
No Mr.Gaunder, religion is not acquired by birth. There is, and cannot be, any biological proof for that. It does not come thru your genes. You adopt your religion from your parents or someone else, at some stage in life. Sometimes the process is gradual and mostly involuntary. Sometimes it is a sudden decision, voluntary.
It is savarkar who held the view that Brahminism (which he mistakenly and deliberately equated to Hinduism)was biologically acquired. At the root of such views lies not merely ignorance, but the despicable evil of racism.
RE:The issue is arbitrariness of a particular individual
by Senthil Gounder on Jun 06, 2007 03:52 PM Permalink
Anand, Unlike other religions, hinduism is a culture that we acquire by birth. Just as we cannot suddenly change our motherhood, the same as with the religion.
In that case, Ravi's birth is considered for determining his faith.
Why are you so adamant on supporting Ravi.. Ravi should accept the fact that his son would not be discriminated because he is born to a hindu mother.. ie his hindu wife..
Since the rituals are prescribed by Adi shankara itself, the tantri is right & clear in his point.
Please understand the diff b/w christianity & hinduism.. Guruvayur is one part of larger hinduism, and it has its own tradition.
RE:RE:The issue is arbitrariness of a particular individual
by Sriram Vangal on Jun 06, 2007 03:31 PM Permalink
Anand, Ravikrishna got married at Guruvayoor, and a punyaham was done later for the same reason. My question is why should he go there again? The tantri is following the tradition after seeing photos of Ravi doing the ritual.
RE:The issue is arbitrariness of a particular individual
by Surya K on Jun 06, 2007 04:01 PM Permalink
Stop fighting,
keep it in that some of the caste groups are matrilinear till very late. The Temple till follows the same tradition. As this chaps mother is Christian (She has not converted her religion nor changed her name) and hence ha has to follow the Tradition.
RE:The issue is arbitrariness of a particular individual
by Dheeraj Akula on Jun 06, 2007 03:24 PM Permalink
It all depends on whether you consider Mr. Ravi Krishna to be a Christian or a Hindu.
I believe he is a Christian, because his mother is Christian.
Irrespective of what we believe, it is important what the temple believes. As per the religious rules there, the children inherit the religion of their mother, not father.
Finally, there is enough information there, that the family practises Christianity. Mr. Vayalar Ravi tried to cover it up in his interview yesterday, by saying that their family if "progressive and secular". Please read his interview published in Rediff yesterday.
RE:The issue is arbitrariness of a particular individual
by Sriram Vangal on Jun 06, 2007 03:26 PM Permalink
No Dheeraj. Ravi is an Ezhava, who are patriarchial as against Thiyyas of north Kerala, they are Matriarchial. Any way, knowing fully well what will follow, why should he go there? And cry later that he has been insulted.
RE:The issue is arbitrariness of a particular individual
by Dheeraj Akula on Jun 06, 2007 03:57 PM Permalink
OK, irrespective of whether they are patriarchal or matriarchal, it is a fact their family practises Christianity. In the interview published in Rediff yesterday, Mr. Vayalar Ravi tried to cover it up saying that they have "freedom at home" and their family is "progressive and secullar" (these are his words).
RE:The issue is arbitrariness of a particular individual
by Sriram Vangal on Jun 06, 2007 04:00 PM Permalink
As per Congress dictionery, Scecular = Anti Hindu or por minority. Ravi is a hardcore congress man. He did the ritual there only to rake up a contraversy and not for his devotion to god.
RE:RE:The issue is arbitrariness of a particular individual
by Dheeraj Akula on Jun 06, 2007 04:02 PM Permalink
Further, forget what the law says and whether their caste is patriarchal or matriarchal. To the extent that one of his parents is a Christian, he is not a Hindu.
Secondly, their family practises Christianity. It is a fact. They promote Christianity and they help organizations propagating Christianity. These are well-known facts.
Finally, this is not the first time Mr. Vayalar Ravi is involved in such controversies. It is his hobby.
RE:RE:The issue is arbitrariness of a particular individual
by Anand Iyer on Jun 06, 2007 03:27 PM Permalink
Dheeraj-These presumptiuons have an evil effect on hinbdu society. Becoz of such presumptions it becomes difficult to arrange matrimony within the hindu community. Therefore, what happens in many mixed marriages involving hindu is that child is brought up as a non-hindu (to avoid such problems). We should give Mr,. Ravi pluadits for having brought up his son, grandson etc as a hindu.
The entire money comming to all temples is donated by hindhu devotees.whereas the funds of temples are under govt control and used for all. Even take an ex, the Tirupati Balaji temple gives funds to Padmavati University,Swims hospital and so many other schools and colleges. But these are governed by govt and govt appoints sevaral christians as head of these scools/university.show atleast even one single org of xstians/muslims which gets funds only from its followers buts spends for all. Even the funds came to tsunami victims, the xstian missionaries has asked the victims to convert to xistiansim to give it to them.
muslims cry for all reasons that happens across world but never say any single word against the violence in kashmir.Thats the true colour and patriotism of theses minorities for India.
shame on these ppl who still cry on hindhus.shame on congress for nurturishing these poisonous snakes.
RE:Show one christian /muslim org which does for all
by Surya K on Jun 06, 2007 03:41 PM Permalink
Kishore,
Please keep it in mind that the Padmavathi Mahila University has a Xtian Vice Chancellor named Veena Noble Dass responsible for all the contraversies in the University Campus. She is the one who allowed Christian Missionaries in the University Campus and allow them to convert Hindus to Christianity. She is the one who stopped the daily rituals for the Goddess Padmavathi at the University.
Please also keep in mind that Tirumala Tirupathi Devasthanam has christian and muslim employees. There is a reservation policy for SC/ST's there and most of them are converts.
RE:Show one christian /muslim org which does for all
by Dheeraj Akula on Jun 06, 2007 04:30 PM Permalink
I wonder why my message was permanently removed. It was totally non-abusive and it explains the way Christians are propagating Christianity near Hindu temples. I had merely written the facts and it was totally non-abusive. Why was it removed? I think it is the Christains moderator's shift now. Welcome to work, Christian moderator!
RE:Show one christian /muslim org which does for all
by Akram on Jun 06, 2007 03:31 PM Permalink
i never came across any Kashmiri pandits who claims that their neighbor muslims are reasons for their situation.
and to my knowledge the CM's of J&K were involved in tackling the militancy not encouraging it as Modi did in Gujarat.
there are two types of humanbeing one talks sweet and never do any action. Other dont talk but do actions. So condeming by mouth is not necessary it is the action required and it is done by muslim CM's of the state.
RE:Show one christian /muslim org which does for all
by ashish wali on Jun 06, 2007 04:25 PM Permalink
Dear Akram - See the freedom Muslims are enjoying in a Hindu majority country.Does minorities enjoy same rights in muslim dominated countries?Absolutely no....the country where Islam dominates numerically the religion is imposed on minorities.Hindus treat minorites like brothers but the other way round is not same.....look at kashmir all Pandits were forced to flee
RE:Show one christian /muslim org which does for all
by Akram on Jun 06, 2007 04:53 PM Permalink
it will be blunt if i agree i am not having freedom, i have all freedom to practice and follow faith of my choice.
yes hindus enjoy freedom in forward looking countries like Malaysia, UAE, OMAN,to name few. If it is not so there should not be any temples in these countires
i have got helped by many hindu friends in many ways, except very few everyone treat muslims respectievely.
there are some culprits in both religions want to create trouble for narrow benefits.
i have kashmiri relatives in Baramulla, they never involved in attacking pandits it was the goons of pakistan. who could do anything for their survival
Mr. Ravi went to Guruvayoor, knowing fully well what is to follow. My question is simple. Why should he go there when he knew very well that his visit will be followed by PUNYAHAM? I will not go to a place where I am iltreated. So the purpose of Ravi's visit is not to pray, but to raise a stink to further his electoral prospects in this 'SECULAR' country. In fact, all temples should do PUNYAHAM, whenever any politician, especially from the secular brigade visits. They leave behind a stench that envolopes the whole country.
