It is because of all these strictness guruvayur is what it is today. let us not interfere in these types of attacks on the temple. let us try to respect the sentiments of the tantris. if i remember correct longback similar issues were raised on our former prime minister mrs gandhi and she immly respected the sentiments. can our people raise slogan on churches and mosques or the golden temple for tht matter. some one pretended to be the spiritual leader viz dera baba and the whole punjab almost burnt for a couple of days. let us not go into the religios sentiments. kerala temple priests never give up their rights for the sake of money etc tamilnadu temples have given up everything and we hv found whisky bottles in temples in tamilnad.
RE:guruvayur temple
by diba on Jun 06, 2007 10:02 AM Permalink
Hindu dharma has survived so long becuase of its respect for all religion. this kind of behaviour of barring people of lower cast or from any other religion brings shame to my religion. Just explain me, what way any human being made of same blood and flesh is so impure that you need to perform purification. This is nothing but great insult to the humnakind, all of whom are creation of god.
RE:guruvayur temple
by anand padmarajan on Jun 06, 2007 10:09 AM Permalink
Give answer to the question posted, i have asked three questions , can i be answered from your end for the three questions
RE:guruvayur temple
by Ali Baba on Jun 06, 2007 09:50 AM Permalink
The truely religious of any religion understands your anguish. Yes we can see through the mist of politics; Vayalar Ravi is old grandfather he surely knew the ageold rules of the temple.
He went there knowingly obviosly he himself considers the place holy, then how come he got ideas on hindsight? Maybe he is trying to polarise voters... you never know these politicians
RE:RE:guruvayur temple
by on Jun 06, 2007 10:10 AM Permalink
VinayPrat..what reformation are you talking about? And why is Hinduism in question here? Is what happend in Guruvayur a rule of Hinduism?
You are demented like many other people here.
In every temple or every office, there are rules. And rules are followed. If someone sleeps in my office during work hrs, he is fired. Similarly in Guruvayur temple, if people from other religions enter, there is a procedure to be followed and the priests followed it. Thats it!
RE:guruvayur temple
by anand padmarajan on Jun 06, 2007 10:15 AM Permalink
Well Vinay, i have posed three basic questions for discussion. I think we can discuss about marx later..
Why are always Hindu Customs and traditions are not respected. There were some wrongs in our religion not everything. Hinduism is a living force and hence has lived upto "times". One basic question to all " Can i a Hindu enter a Mosque say Jama Masjid in delhi and be a part of the friday prayers. i am a person who believes that God is one. Will the father of any church will do the "Ma mu lisa" for me because i believe christ is Krishna... Why are there separate Personal Laws in our nation when we can have one Law for all Indians" If these questions can get a positive answer without any other condition attached, i would say not just Hindus even India is moving forward.
There are lots of elements trying to separate Hindus%u2026 This being the case we must not fight between us%u2026 Other wise the whole lot of Indian culture will be lost The site below shows a classic black-propaganda done by a Christian missionary against Brahmins
Well if the tantris and the pujaris are rule bound then they must never have heard nor shall hear the devotional songs rendered by yesudas as he is a non-hindu. Do they check the clothes which they wear, the food that they eat where all made by pure hindus. Well what about the animals or birds that stray into the temple premises? R they also categorised religionwise ?Well I too am a hindu but believe that god transcends all this abstract boundaries.
RE:Guruvayur Rules
by Sreekanth Nemani on Jun 06, 2007 09:55 AM Permalink
please read the interview completely! They are have to do this if they come to know about it! obviously if they donot know about it then they cannot do it!
It is the very first thing he said in the interview. In this case since the priest personally knew about Ravi he ordered it. If he didn't knw then he is not rule bound!
RE:Guruvayur Rules
by Ali Baba on Jun 06, 2007 09:54 AM Permalink
In case you are a Hindu you must have self esteem to refrain from irresponsible comments. In case you are not a Hindu,then it is plain improper on your part to criticise.
Every religion has rituals which may look funny to non believers
RE:Guruvayur Rules
by Dheeraj Akula on Jun 06, 2007 09:53 AM Permalink
If you believe that God transcends all abstract boundaries, then you need not visit a temple. You can worship God anywhere, he is everywhere.
RE:Guruvayur Rules
by diba on Jun 06, 2007 10:05 AM Permalink
I would like to know, which scripture has prescribed such action. I would like to have the page number and the name of the scripture. Being a brahmin, I must know this, so that I can check, who is entering my office, where I have a small idol of Lord Krishna. I must also know the full ritual, so that I can purify my office, every time my forign colaborator comes to visit me.
RE:Guruvayur Rules
by jijo baby on Jun 06, 2007 09:55 AM Permalink
I know this is one of the very unfortunate incedent...after reading this interview what i can understand is no one is sure what Adi Shankaran actually might have conveyed as there is no written rules available...Tantris have liberty to mend these rules...So I believe they have done is and still trying to enforce it...
This is not an issue with Hindus alone...I have seen this even in muslims...some of the very pious muslim people dont eat non-veg from non-muslim restaurants...understandably because of hallal thing...but i have seen people not driking water from a non-muslim people...
yesterday somebody was saying some one wasnt allowed into the chruch in russia cuz she wasnt a chirstian...
so this crap exists in every religion...and you dont need liberlisation to thing this is unfair...all you need is a lil commom sense...
When the purification ceremony is being done on a daily basis,why is Ravi & others like him kicking up a row? I dare Ravi,Sudhakaran & like minded people to visit a Mosque or a Gurudwara & have them change the laws there to suit their visit.There are certain traditions to be followed in every religion. Can any Hindu cite an incident when the female members of his family participate in any religious function during her Menstrual Periods?
RE:Tantri is Right
by diba on Jun 06, 2007 10:07 AM Permalink
If any religion does that, that is equally bad. I am proud to be a hindu, becuase it gives me so much freedom and does not differentiate amonng human beigns.
I really agree with Tantri that he has done only the ritual. Actually Mr.Ravi and Mr. Ravi Krishnan know the rituals of Guruvayoor temple, then why they create this news type of problems. Only thing is that Mrs.Ravi could have formally converted to Hindu religion.
The same Adi Shankara who supposedly made the rules at Guruvayur, made a statement having a profound meaning = "Bramha Satya, Jagat mithya, Jivo Brahmaiva napara", "Aham Brahmasmi".
If you deeply understand the meaning of these statements, you will realise that there is no need to visit any temple, church, masjid, gurudwara and any other temple. What are these temples any way? A means of asking gullible public to pay for receiving some UNKNOWN blessings of QUESTIONABLE GOD.
People should just stop going to any temple - be it the Tirupati, or the Jyotirlings or the Devi temples. GOD is not so cheap that it will get swayed by offerings of earthly human. What can you offer in any case to the ALMIGHTY who has created all and who is also residing in you.
Temples have converted GOD into a business to earn money and Power. These are just like a market place, a subji mandi.
RE:What is GOD?
by Ganapathy Janrdhanan on Jun 06, 2007 11:14 AM Permalink
Hi Gururaj, Your experience in temples seems to be very demoralising.Temples,masjids,churces,gurudwaras are for meditating and enjoying peace of mind.Now peace of mind differes from people to people.Your experience need not be the same for others.If you cannot achieve the peace of mind in temple as you rightly pointed out do not go there.But if you have a headache do not cut off the head to solve the problem.You must go deep to cure it.Ultimately it is you, and you alone who, can attain moksha and therefore, should train yourself not to get entangled in the worldly matters including temple administration etc.Therefore,when you go to temple go within yourself and see GOD in you.If you can do this you need not go to the temple.But every one would not have achieved your level.Hence a visit to temple is required to keep in touch with HIM.HE IS AWARE OF ALL ACTIVITIES IN TEMPLE AND EVERY WHERE.
These days, many temples may have become "business" centers, as you said.
But, you are wrong when you say that a temple is constructed to collect offerings from people. Why do you people make such irresponsible statements? If you can't see anything more than "offerings", money and business at a temple, please don't visit a temple. Please don't spread your false ideas everywhere. Already, religions have enough problems.
RE:What is GOD?
by S. RAMACHANDRAN on Jun 06, 2007 09:37 AM Permalink
I 100% agree with the views. Look deeper into thyself and you will see both the Temple and the God
RE:What is GOD?
by sujeesh areekara on Jun 06, 2007 09:48 AM Permalink
Excellent...My friends are enlightened...Temples are a means to reach your goal..there is absolutely no need to depend on them or conduct poojas there...For those who are short of time and knowledge.. it is the easiest means.
RE:What is GOD?
by jaydeep dalwadi on Jun 06, 2007 09:30 AM Permalink
You are correct in your early part of your post. But not in you lower part of you post.
Aham brahmasmi is correct. But only he who is purna can say this not every person on the face of this earth.
Use words properly, words are saviour and words are killer as well.
Now coming to you point of temples being places where you pay to get blessings.
I guess you had some nightmare visiting such type of place. Temple is meant for those whole are deeply in worldly affairs and are not able to completely disconnect from the day to day life. Its a place where you are supposed to do dhyana on God. That is why we placed idols of those who attained sumpremity or who were born sumpreme. This place is for meditating.
You don't need to pay to get bless. You need to love God to get blessed. And love for God happens to lucky ones or who initiate there own self on the path of meditation on bramha. Yes this is possible. Passing through the difficulties which come in way of the sadhak as parikshas you attain a state where you receive the showers of ultimate blessing of the bramha.
Now talking about temples. Temples have not converted God in business. But the people running those temples are not spiritual but yearning of earning they livelyhood. Does this mean that temples are corrupt places? NO they are not.
Lots of saints in our history who have taken birth in every part of India have been very frequent visitors of temples. At that time the priests were pure. In todays world
RE:RE:What is GOD?
by Gururaj Vaidya on Jun 06, 2007 09:48 AM Permalink
The Point was, why should the Ravi and Ravikrishna make such a fuss about going to a temple in the first place? If you are so liberated as to marry a Christian (Nothing wrong in that), then why bother to go to a Hindu place of worship? If you have shown that you dont believe in the Hindu faith, then why make a fuss about taking your son, born out of an act of faith defiance, to seek blessings again to a temple of the same faith. Is it not being hypocratic?
RE:What is GOD?
by Gururaj Vaidya on Jun 06, 2007 09:43 AM Permalink
Surely a Temple is inanimate. What I meant was certainly the people running the show. GOD doesnt need any money or anything else for that matter.
I suppose what you are referring to as "receive the showers of ultimate blessing of the bramha" is the self realisation process. For that you do not need to visit a temple. And looking at the state of various temples ( I have been to many ) I would like to know where you can meditate. Take Tirupati. You cant even stand in front of the deity but for a brief moment. One is better off to be in nature, away from the maddening crowd and away from a temple. Looking at the mad rush to seek GOD and his blessings as is seen in Hindu temples, I am sure GOD also will get fed up and run away from the temple.
RE:RE:What is GOD?
by Shankar Shinde on Jun 06, 2007 10:31 AM Permalink
Dear Gururaj, I support your views 100%. But everybody do not born with deep faith in god. To develop that faith he need to follow some rituals like pooja and visiting temples. As said by lord krishna, very few are curious to know god. So though it is not necessary to visit temple for everyone, for common people it is one of the means to develop faith and love for god. Even great saints like Gyaneshwara who called the body itself as a temple, they advised common people to do wari(pilgrimage). I hope u got my point...
if a temple like sabarimala considers that human ity and faith is more than a religion, why dont the people at guruvayoor understand this basic principle? whats their logic of not allowing non hindus to the temple
But, why should non-Hindus be allowed into a Hindu temple at all? What is the logic in allowing non-Hindus into a Hindu temple?
People who hate Hinduism, people who believe that Islam and Christianity are better than Hinduism converted into other religions. Their hearts are full of hatred for Hinduism. Now, why do you want to visit a Hindu temple? Why do you want to look at a "stone"? Why do you want to look at "animal gods"? Why should non-Hindus be allowed into a Hindu temple?
RE:Is god biased?
by sujeesh areekara on Jun 06, 2007 09:52 AM Permalink
You have nailed the coffin.It is not Hinduism alone which dictates the practises of the temle but the tradition of each temple.Each temple is set on a certain tradition which is followed for ages.
RE:Is god biased?
by Pradeep Kumar on Jun 06, 2007 09:18 AM Permalink
Can we look from the perspective of rituals and practises followed in certain temples. And these rituals and practises makes these temples more holier for the beleivers :-)
Think of so many of Buddist , Taosist , Shintoist , mosques... where other belief or religion people are not allowed to enter. Are they being discriminative? or just because we are ignorant of their belief and practises deem them discriminative and say god is biased !!!
Is God Biased ? for an aetist , this query would sound imminent , but for a beleiver , it sounds insulting .. so where do we stand on this?
RE:Is god biased?
by Narad on Jun 06, 2007 09:42 AM Permalink
I fully agree with you. Actually I am an Atheist but I feel it is non of my business to argue with believers because it is sick ego trip to preach others
RE:Is god biased?
by prasad jahagirdar on Jun 06, 2007 09:43 AM Permalink
Ya i totally agree with the views.The Hindus are always being targetted for their holy beliefs.Noone intervenes the other religions including Islam who prohibit other religion people from entering their places. Hindus are prosecuted for their tolerence.But i will advise all respect your traditions and be a real Hindu. Prasad J.
RE:READERS YOUR COMMENTS PLEASE
by sujeesh areekara on Jun 06, 2007 09:31 AM Permalink
Dear friend, Thanks for the posting.Hinduism is a strict religion with several do's and dont's and that is the exact reason why people like you great grand fathers swithced over to Islam.Nobody forces you to be a Hindu but the temples have thier own governing rules and those who want to pray at these temples should abide by them.For ex. a woman during menstual cycle is forbidden from enterind a temple...Is there any way of checking on this ?Only if it is known then it is a sin...get it !Men are not allowed to wear shirts inside the temple.. those who are shy of showing their chests need not enter...is that discrimination ? women are not allowed angapradistanam.. is that discrimination? Vylar ravi can choose to follow the customs of Hiduism if he chooses... even otherwise nobody is going to throw him out of Hinduism... but being a seasoned politician ...taking up such matters for self gains .is an insult to other Hindus like me who are proud of the great religion .For that matter howmany mosques allow women inside ? will you call that discrimination ?Let us live in harmony following our beliefs which I feel is the essence of life and the true meaning of secularism.
RE:RE:READERS YOUR COMMENTS PLEASE
by sundarapandian natrajan on Jun 06, 2007 10:18 AM Permalink
I really appreciate your comments and totally agree with you. Hinduism is not only a religious, its a tradition of lifestyle, what we leave to generations after generations. Religious with protected freedom to its followers, it leads for democracy and secularism...
RE:READERS YOUR COMMENTS PLEASE
by Seven Maniacs on Jun 06, 2007 09:04 AM Permalink
my friend. Let's not mix religions here. Islam is good for you. Hinduism has certain code of conduct, please don't interfere. I am not saying this because you are a muslim, but the fact that your understanding/interpretation may not be in sync with the context in which all this is practised. You think the explanation is unsatisfactory. I think it makes simple sense. If you have the slighest of doubt, you perform the cleansing pooja. Nothing to do with a person/people, but for the general benefit of public
