My understanding is that a Tantri is not a regular priest of a temple ; He will do special poojas and rituals during festivals. Normally in other temples the Melsanthi is the regular priest. A Tantri will be so busy that he will not take note of who is entering the temple. It is the temple authorities who inform the Tantri about a Christian entering to the temple and such issues.
In future the Tantri can let the temple authorities decide who is Christian and Who is non Hindu. Tantri should seek get a written complaint from temple authorities that a christian has entered the temple and punyaha is needed
All caste related issues general public will put blame on Brahmins. So Brahmins must play diplomacy and avoid such controversies. The truth is now caste based discrimination is done not by Brahmins but by other communities (for inst the Gujjar-Meena problem) but still Brahmins are always blamed. Thats the general norm.
Brahmins don't give chance for others to blame you. Play wise. Time demands that
RE:Brahmins Avoid controversies
by Raman on Jun 15, 2007 07:29 PM Permalink
Ya ya try to blame others for listening to Brahmins and follow them..Dont try to divert the blames on Non Brahmins,all they did was just to follow what ever nonsense that Brahmins started and yes they should be blamed for Timidity and Naivity but no Non Brahmin carries as much hatred and prejudice like Brahmins do,look at the posting of some higher caste guy insulting Shudras here,do u think Brahmins got no reason to be blamed?
RE:Brahmins Avoid controversies
by Raman on Jun 15, 2007 09:18 PM Permalink
We dont need to understand anything,no Braminical rule is needed,first u understand,everyone is equal and should be treated with the same respect,no one should be restricted doing only certain jobs,so quit this nonsense preaching and stop confusing people The lower caste didnt rise up because they were Psyched out and made to beleive they are not worth doing greater deeds,i am a Non Brahmin and live in USa last 9 yrs and till i was in India my fellow Brahmin friends whom i trusted always talked in a way that would put self doubt and demoralise anyone,its not possible for people to just realise good and bad in a instance.it takes time depending on the individual All Epics and Puranas are ridiculous but how many realise it,most of them even after realising it still beleive it out of fear...its all mind games played earlier,not anymore people are awake,only thing is Non Brahmins should unite and big goodbye to Rituals and pray without fancy offerings,rituals and Brahminical methods,no need to believe any Epic or purana,and dont tell mejust because Christians bullshit with stories we should follow our own mythology NONSENSE..
RE:Brahmins Avoid controversies
by ashok leyland on Jun 16, 2007 08:59 PM Permalink
You are a very confused person. Having lived in the US for so long I assume you have acquired some information about the people there. The Native Americans were massacred, their wealth, land and taken away, Africans imported to be slaves, different Asian and European communities that have immigrated with different religions and there is still no such nonsense when it comes to religious ceremonies of politicians going first, nor have I heard that the White Christian Americans should be punished for the hatred shown towards people they enslaved! From when Man attributed divine powers to Divinities and Gods & then proceeded to invoke himself as God's representative on earth, religion has been used to exploit and manipulate people, exactly as you preach and are still doing. What the Brahmins did to the lower classes was fruit of ignorance. What the modern US highpriest Bush is doing,is not in God's name but of the US self-elected superpower. Both for gain- Power & Wealth. That being said, why not foster an Indian spirit that unites & not divides? Force politics to deal with and render all Indians equal. Keep religion out of it. I for one am all for any caste member being a priest AS LONG AS HE OR SHE (see women can't be excluded) IS WELL READ IN THE HOLY scriptures, vedas, puranas etc; Religion definitely must progress as society, but this will happen only if people like you change the tit-for-tat mentality i.e revenge.
how can the shudras be allowed entry in hindu temples....it is against the very basic tenant of vedas ... shudras are born from the feet of brahma and their very shadow needs to be avoided as it can pollute a dvijya varna... govt cant make laws which usurp the authority of vedas... all dvijya hindus should unite and oppose this law as it is against our religion... these low castes will tomorrow start demanding our daughters for marriage if this continues... kalyug aa gya hai
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RE:put lower caste in their place
by Harjeet Singh on Jun 14, 2007 07:53 PM Permalink
look raman..i am a devout hindu and follow the instructions of my religion very clearly...shudras are made to serve the dvijya varnas....over thousands of years these religious dictats have exsisted...i will not stop following my religion just becaucse u dont like it...this way hinduism in its purest form will vanish...
RE:RE:put lower caste in their place
by Raman on Jun 14, 2007 08:58 PM Permalink
im sure u talk like this only in message boards because no one can do anything to u,go talk like this in ur work place or where u live,then see what happens.
ur a hypocrite and its a disgrace to even argue with u.do u follow everything that ur religion says,ur religion and all religions are created by people to suppress others and enjoy the exploitation..people like u wrote all these discriminating nonsense called vedas,religion,epics etc...only a fool will follow it word by word and serve the upper caste..a shudra is born to serve u?wow what a concept..
what about a shatriya,is he also there to protect u when a poor shoodra attacks u for ur atrocies?
RE:RE:put lower caste in their place
by Harjeet singh on Jun 14, 2007 07:57 PM Permalink
none of them was shudra...and even if some shudras have achieved some thing in their lifetime it doesnt mean that all shudras have become pure...also why should we disobey the dictats of our religion based upon our decision rather than what sages and gods themselves have written in our books/vedas
RE:RE:put lower caste in their place
by SIVA SHUNMUGAM on Jun 15, 2007 02:22 PM Permalink
hey fool, understand you idots have denied chances to others and that is why they have not developed. Now, every body is getting their own chances and coming up. Don't talk rubbish like veda, shudra. For a day to day life, we have to depend each other. Try to think, atleast hereafter.
RE:put lower caste in their place
by Rational Indian on Jun 14, 2007 01:16 PM Permalink
Harjeet, u serioulsy need education. U r neither educated in modern constitutional values nor in hindu scriptures.
That trash which u quote is from Manu Smriti which has no authority. See what Bhagvad Gita said to be the words of Lord himself says:
"I am alike to all.None is hated by me nor dear to me."[9:29]
Chaturvarnya maya shrushta guna karma vibhagaso(i.e. Four varnas r based on qualities and deeds. Gita talks of "classes" and not birth-based castes like Manusmriti)
Further read Chapter 18. It is very clear that all four varnas including shudras have the right to learn and chant vedas. For Brahmins, learning vedas is compulsory. It is Manusmriti which barred shudras from reciting Vedas.
For knowledge about shudras read "Who were the shudras" by Dr. Ambedkar-an excellent analytical book available on net.
RE:put lower caste in their place
by ashok leyland on Jun 16, 2007 09:25 PM Permalink
Who said this? People with power to manipulate and enslave for power & wealth. In this day and age of scientific reason how can you believe such nonsense? I suppose you will next say that Adam was created from mud and Eve from his rib! Which century are you living in?Are you literate or a formally educated ignoramus who doesn't think for himself, after wasting money on school? If daughters are anything like you I think even Brahmin youths should keep away! Besides these ridiculous beliefs written by ignorant men, what else do you do as per the vedas and shastras? Are you pious, do you worship without thought of gain? Is your life pure and sinless? Come off it! You are the same human being as any other man on the road with blood running through your veins, some petty and some lofty emotions in your brains and capable of satisfying your appetite with food. Did you know that we evolved from the apes? Do you realize the story of Hanuman could refer to a human species that looked like apes and not to the fairy tale of Rama who was a narrow minded macho with no respect for women, least of all for his wife? Try reading the Ramayana from an objective point of view. Try thinking for yourself instead of swallowing what someone with 0.05 percent knowledge of what we know today wrote, thinking himself closer to God because he was the only one literate. You pollute yourself with such demeaning thoughts. Humans are capable of bettering themselves using reason & logic, you claim to be a
RE:RE:put lower caste in their place
by ashok leyland on Jun 16, 2007 09:26 PM Permalink
continued from above...
You pollute yourself with such demeaning thoughts. Humans are capable of bettering themselves using reason & logic, you claim to be a devout Hindu, then try to analyze your thinking, look around you at the facts. The brain is a funny organ. It can make you mean and cunning or it can create uplifting ideas that enlighten the arts, science and humanities. Religion too can grow with us or remain locked in the past where the mediocre want it to be so they can still rule. What do you prefer?
I remember the story of Kanakadasa who was denied %u201Cdarshan%u201D of lord in udupi temple. Legend says that, kanakadasa went to behind the temple and meditated on lord, and diety turned around, and the walls cracked apart so kanakadas could have darshan. Our abhinava kanakadasa %u201CRavikrishna%u201D was not denied darshan, and a punyaham is a very normal process in a temple. I am not talking about temples outside Kerala. I am with the priest, may be he does not have the authority to deny the darshan to a believer, but certainly he has authority to do a little small, simple ritual called, punyaham in his temple, as per his belief which holds strongly, which he gained in all his life.
So called hindu believer, ravikrisha, so called devotee of Krishna, must also believe the words spoken by very Krishna,
sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami ma sucah Bg 18-66
TRANSLATION Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.
When Krishna himself says to abandon all religions and castes, why we self proclaimed hindus, within hindus, brahmanas, kshatriya, with in that noth Indian, south Indian, with in that vaishnava, shaiva, are doing this petty squabbling on religion and beliefs?
I must say that, moment one says I am hindu, Brahmin, kshatriya and so on, that moment he is disqualified. Well.. atleast as per krishna!
RE:hindus!!
by Raman on Jun 14, 2007 02:00 AM Permalink
Well where was Krishna when Karna was humiliated by his beloved Pandavas that lead to him joining Duryodana? All Epics and Mythologies are the root cause of this Caste system,one idiot tells Brahmin was born from Brahmas Forehead,we all know where we are born from. Epics cant be taken into consideration because of the fantasy stories attached to them. Practical solution is bring strong laws against discrimination based on caste and remove caste at all
RE:hindus!!
by Raman on Jun 14, 2007 08:47 PM Permalink
Nonsense if Karna was a coward then why did they not allow to compete,why did Indra go beg for his Kavacha Kundala,why did Kunti ask her sons to be spared by him and beg for him not to send the Nagastra more than once? Karna was not a coward(assuming the Epics stories as it is),it was pure discrimination from the Egoistic Pandavas,who were cowards,why did Yudhistra do when he ran away from Karnas attacks?Why did Krishna protect Arjuna from Karna? Beema humiliated Karna by asking him his birth and telling him he cant compete with Arjuna,it is u who should read the Mahabarahta,it seems u dont know anything from it.
RE:Only way is for Non Brahmins to Unite
by Raman on Jun 13, 2007 11:18 PM Permalink
this all started only after Periyar,otherwise they all would openly treat us like Dirt,like not entering their areas where they live,not allowing us in Temples,till this date in Corporate sectors I know they discriminate, thank goodness lot of Learned people like me live Abroad otherwise our families would%u2019ve never been exposed to a culture that%u2019s free of their ills. Blind faiths and low self esteem is all that has come out of their Religious teachings%u2026too much dependence of Fate,Astrology,Gods etc were ruining our lives until Rationalist came%u2026its time that all Non Brahmins act united from now on and try to put an end(as its not easy)to their acts%u2026%u2026 Schools, Colleges, Work anywhere u take, they always dominate without merit and just because they are Physically weaker they have hardly been threatened because most Non Brahmins used to protect them thinking they will be accepted among them,I had some relatives who used to do that,but all it did to them was lose their self esteem and belief that Brahmins are superior%u2026they never let others grow..
Consciously and subconsciously Brahmins believe they are the best and others are Idiots,that%u2019s why they would give preference to their caste to others in job or school or anywhere,I ve known Brahmin guys who haven%u2019t accomplished even half of what I did still feel that things come to us by Luck whereas if they get it that means they deserve it.. Its really ingrained in their system to think that way,ive lived in USA for 10 yrs now an
RE:Only way is for Non Brahmins to Unite
by sassivasv on Jun 14, 2007 07:19 PM Permalink
re:raman
now a days we have only two cast i.e rich amd poor cast .u forget ur cast when u talk to a rich fellow from any cast,u never dare to perform marriage of ur ur son/adughter to a poor from the same cast.relegion is a way of life u choose a relegion which u chose better rather than criticise others relegion.THOSE WHO CRIRISICED VEDAS HAVE LED MISERABLE LIFE.TURMERIC HAS BEEN USED IN OUR SOCIETY AS FOR MANY CENTURIES. BUT WE ACCEPT ITS ANTISCEPTIC CHARCTERSTICS IF USA ANNOUNCES AN DGETS THE PATENTS.BE BALANCED ALL EOPLE R NOT ALIKE DONT COME TO NASTY CONCLUSIONS..
RE:RE:Only way is for Non Brahmins to Unite
by Raman on Jun 14, 2007 08:50 PM Permalink
Seems that ur just afraid of the thought of Non Brahmins uniting,if that happens Brahmins will never survive a day,cause u cant be non discriminative even for a minute...arrogance is in ur blood
RE:Only way is for Non Brahmins to Unite
by Raman on Jun 14, 2007 08:49 PM Permalink
Ya when u get sick,what do u do?Do u go to a Doctor or read vedas and apply Turmeric to cure urself. People who believed Vedas also led miserable lives,what about ur Sankaracharya he reads vedas everyday and spent 4 months in jail..what about all Brahmins who have been using Alopathy(Western medicines)for all these decades? Why dont they chant a mantra when they are sick,why do they run to doctors?
RE:RE:Only way is for Non Brahmins to Unite
by Raman on Jun 13, 2007 11:19 PM Permalink
and before I came here I used to bear that attitude cause ur used to it whereas I want everyone including all Non Brahmin brothers in India to realize the importance to be united and lead a good life..Its our right to be ambitious,go for whatever we feel like we are good enough,try to be the best and not second best or not at all try(which is what they want)No one is perfect but that doesn%u2019t mean a guy who is 10% bad is equal to a guy who is 80% bad and Brahmins are worse, they r so hateful of us that its sick to know someone can hate someone just because he doesn%u2019t have that White Belt across his chest%u2026
RE:Only way is for Non Brahmins to Unite
by SIVA SHUNMUGAM on Jun 15, 2007 02:27 PM Permalink
Excellent man, that is what great Periyar told. We Dravidans are 100 Crores in India, they are only 3 Crores (aryans), but so far they are only enjoying everything by dividing us. We should stand unity and send them away from India.
RE:Only way is for Non Brahmins to Unite
by Raman on Jun 15, 2007 07:27 PM Permalink
Yes,thats what i mean,after all these people are following a system that doesnt even belong to us in the first place,i am very very proud to be a Dravidian and i am neither afraid nor believe in any of the Nonsense that Brahmins started and follow,including Epcis,Puranas,Mantras,Tantras etc...i have lived a good and successful life and so can anyone,we dont have to depend on them or respect them,i am from a Non Brahmin family who are always against the Brahminical Culture,but people who do believe in all these Shastras and Puranas and Vedic Astrology end up being slaves(without even realising)to the Brahmins. Its called the fear of the unknown,but despite being lived in USA for over 35 yrs most of my relatives are still afraid of the rituals and perform them out of fear,i think we need 1000s of Periyars,Brahmins still dominate because of the Timidity of Dravidians and also other than Tamil Nadu not many states in India even care about eradicating Discrimination based on caste cause they still believe in the fantasy epics and they dont realise that all religions are nothing but hate politics and lies. Like how Periyar said Vengayam... I hate this low self esteem the religion does to people.Like oh man is nothing in front of GOD but still end up enjoying the inventions of man and feast on it. These Brahmins dont follow a word out of their own teachings,only Non Brahmins fall into that trap.Brahmins are always power crazy and materialistic which they say is bad Blah Blah...
RE:RE:Only way is for Non Brahmins to Unite
by siva raj on Jun 22, 2007 06:18 PM Permalink
Can u point out howmany brahmins havepower crazy ? all politicians now days are non brahmins and crooked ones and they need brahmin as their slave? Brahmins lost all their welath in kerala in a sudden morning after that only kerala become worst because of no poor feeding and no dharmas taken place ? without knowing the history don'twrite blah blah.... ok keep mum
Every tradition has to be respected including the one followed by Guruvayur Temple. Kerala is the only place where I find temples have only Hindu's as the criteria to enter, go to all the other temples you have different dharshans for the HAVEs and HAVE NOTs - Every temple outside Kerala makes money by dividing people in the name of Special Dharshan Queue / Rs 500 queue etc. Several times a day the general queue is stopped in Tirupathi for permitting special visitors ? In Kerala Temples / Guruvayur Temple I have not seen such things. There is also a dress code that are religiously followed in Kerala Temples, if cleansing the temple is the tradition then let the same be followed. Mr Vayalar Ravi is politicizing the issue by mixing Christianity and Ezhava communities temple entries. Let him take the courage of nationalizing all the temples/churches/masques of this country to remove this so called problem.
RE:Tredition to be respected
by siva raj on Jun 22, 2007 06:21 PM Permalink
it is good statment we have to welcome the qoute "Mr Vayalar Ravi is politicizing the issue by mixing Christianity and Ezhava communities temple entries. Let him take the courage of nationalizing all the temples/churches/masques of this country to remove this so called problem." have any one agree to this ?
ravi shud remember that the brahminical arrogance he is talking about is necessary to keep casteist politician canines like him & others from his community from wiping brahmins totally from the phase of kerala. although initially i believed this incident shud not have happened, now am glad this wretched soul & his family got what they deserved.
RE:Ravi - The Brahmin Basher
by Raman on Jun 13, 2007 10:44 PM Permalink
Wow u really r a greatguy arent u,need 1000 periyars to teach lessons to u Brahmins...Our country will never be peaceful till this caste system is eradicated,all Bs just get out of India go live in ur own place somewhere...
"by Raman on Jun 13, 2007 01:11 AM Then first remove the caste from ur name,what is that Iyer after your name Anand,is that a post that u earned,u say as per Geetha there is no caste,why dont u start it with urself unless ur a hypocrite Moreover u believe in Bagavad Geetha right?If udo that then ur also like those Christian Preachers,Bagavad Geetha is full of Contradictions and Gimmicks and Fantasy stories...read the Book geethaiyin Marupakkam and try to answer it.. U cant even leave ur caste out in a simple forum like this and u talk about liberating the minds of our fellow countrymen...
Maybe the Christian Missionaries think ur having superiro complex with ur IYER IYENGAR attitudes.
Iyers and Iyengars are the prime reason for Blidn beliefes in our country. Vaasthu Shastra Astrology Prayers Homams all with no backing of results and no guaranteed outputs... U Iyers feast on the fear of unknowns of Non Brahmins."
In fact, if u study the history of religions, all religions r political tools to suppress others.
RE:RE:RAMAN-100% CORRECT
by siva raj on Jun 22, 2007 06:26 PM Permalink
then y u r arguing for RAvi? he can go to the church with you on USA or any place u wish? without out put y u r caring others intrest do ur duty
RE:RAMAN-100% CORRECT
by Raman on Jun 14, 2007 12:42 AM Permalink
U wrote all religions r political tools to suppress others.
Well that is exactly my point,not just that,all Epics and Stupid Mythologies are fake,exaggaration of some story that might have happened Tell this to ur Brahmin Relatives,friends and family,they are the one who need to know this more than anyone else. Ask them to go preach to all Hindus this and correct the wrongs they did over the years Other religions what can we do,if they try to convert us and bullshit then we should ask them to do the same...but i think to get into stupidity ourselves and say ya we do this because they are doing is like that Monkey story of Hats...
No Religion No caste and everyone treated based on their deeds is the best way to lead a good life...dont know when that is going to happen...but we should try... But Brahmins are never going to give up the Mythologies and Epics,cause they make a living out of it,most of them still do....
RE:RAMAN-100% CORRECT
by Jas Sand on Jun 13, 2007 10:34 AM Permalink
Heethayin Marupakkam .. what a Joke! Even a third rated Crappy bok makes more sense than that lolz :))
RE:RAMAN-100% CORRECT
by Raman on Jun 13, 2007 08:52 PM Permalink
Ofcours for idiots like u who are going to believe in all fanatasies of Epics like one arrow turning into Rain and Fire and all nonsense that Book by Veeramani is going to look Crappy,its showing the true colors of people like u who want to Monopolise,Braiwash and exploit people by spreading hatred using Religion. ur a fanatic and ur never going to accept the truth.
RE:RE:RAMAN-100% CORRECT
by ashok leyland on Jun 16, 2007 09:36 PM Permalink
Use your brains, the arrow turning into rain and fire could be the description by a person with no science knowledge of a firecracker or gun. Science was highly developed thousands of years ago, highly knowledgeable persons inhabited Bharath and these have died out and their stories with them. What has been handed down by word of mouth is obviously distorted through the centuries and if you accept what is written literally is appears foolish, but if you apply a little brains to the issue, you will see a remarkable similarity with the so called hitech inventions that today's scientists are in the process of "inventing".
RE:RAMAN-100% CORRECT
by Anand Iyer on Jun 13, 2007 11:21 AM Permalink
Jas Sand. I am yet to read that book. Instaed of just calling it a Joke!-please point out what u find bad in it. This will help. Regards.
RE:RE:RAMAN-100% CORRECT
by Raman on Jun 13, 2007 08:53 PM Permalink
By the way when r u going to take that Iyer out of ur name and also will u live up to ur word that u will act on it,will u take it out officially or just on talks?
by ratnajayant gudavally on Jun 12, 2007 09:00 PM Anand, why don't you allot time to promote a universal thought process. You seem to possess the requisites to work on a practical solution to promote UNIVERSALITY OF HUMANS. Thanks
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RE:THIS IS RELIGIOUS ARROGANCE !.....CONVERT INTO HUMANITY ! by Raman on Jun 13, 2007 01:13 AM First of all let Mr Anand remove the IYER from his name and in his mind,Iyers and their Poonools should be banned,its a symbol of discrimination and superiority in their minds..
GGOD SUGGESTIONS GUYS. I WILL ACT ON THEM. NICE TO MEET GUYS LIKE U.
