Mr Kafir Ahmed seems to suggest that we humans are perfect enough to decide what is good for us and what is bad for us!! If this had been true then why would any law or constitution formulated by humans in any part of the world have to have amendment upon amendment to make corrections to plug loopholes??? Who knows more about any machine better than the one who has designed and created it in the first place? The best guide can thus be given by the one who has made that machine/appliance. Anyone else would surely be inept & inadequate to in that task. Time and tide has proven that the world has been created by THE ONLY ONE CREATOR. It has also been proven and reprted NOT BY MUSLIMS BUT BY NON-MUSLIM SCHOLARS THAT THE QUR'AN IS A WORD OF GOD. Hence it is only suitable to say that the best constitution for the entire world is The Qur'an & the best way to the ART OF LIVING is ISLAM because it is the guidance from THE ONLY ONE CREATOR TO HIS BEST CREATION I.E. HUMANS WHICH HE HAS CREATED FROM A SINGLE PAIR & then increased then in numbers & divided them into multiple tribes so that they could recognise each other (AND NOT DESPISE OR BELITTLE EACH OTHER ON THE BASIS OF CASTE OR COLOUR OR RICHES). The lone criterion in the eyes of ALLAH to judge people is "Taqwa" God conciousness Noone is superior to another on the basis of colour, race or anything else-This was clarified by the Prophet Muhammad PBUH in his farewell sermon. The prophet of Islam has been prophesised in the sciptu
RE:COME TO ISLAM {TOTAL SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF ONE CREATOR}
by Sarath Chandra on Jun 05, 2007 08:03 AM Permalink
So if you think humans are not good enough to decide what is good for us and what is bad us, I think we are not good enough to decide whether quran is an authentic word of god or not? And whether there is only one creator or some 100 creators? or for that matter anything else you said in your post.
RE:COME TO ISLAM {TOTAL SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF ONE CREATOR}
by Vasim Modak on Jun 05, 2007 08:09 AM Permalink
If there had been more than one creator of this earth then it would surely be chaotic. Use logic dear brother and think that if anything has to be created by more than one creator it implies automatically that none of those creators are PERFECT it can only be possible to have such a FANTABULUOS creation or rather hordes of creations if the CREATOR itself is PERFECT
RE:RE:COME TO ISLAM {TOTAL SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF ONE CREATOR}
by Sarath Chandra on Jun 05, 2007 08:13 AM Permalink
Vasim, I don't think after you said that humans are not capable of deciding what is good and bad for them, you should expect me (a human) or even you (a human obviously) to apply logic consistently. We are just not capable of that according to you. I don't think so. But you seem to.
RE:RE:RE:COME TO ISLAM {TOTAL SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF ONE CREATOR}
by Vasim Modak on Jun 05, 2007 08:27 AM Permalink
Please do not misunderstand me when I say that humans are incapable of deciding what is good or what is bad ...This goodnesss or otherwise is regarding the general principles of the way of life.. eg if you have a washing machine at your home would you go ahead and just switch it on immediately or would you not first go to the user's manual to read what are the special precautions you need to take for operating that machine? would you not teach yourslef about what to do and what not to do with that machine How much soap for how many clothes. Whats the max capacity load that it can take ...would you know of it beforehand without the guidance manual or some instructions form the manufacturer? Humans are also such sofisticated and complex machines who HAVE TO HAVE GUIDANCE FROM ITS CREATOR AND THATS POSSIBLE ONLY THROUGH A GUIDANCE WHICH IS FROM his Creator alone
RE:COME TO ISLAM {TOTAL SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF ONE CREATOR}
by Sarath Chandra on Jun 05, 2007 08:37 AM Permalink
I got the washing manual guidance from another human being. And I do create a few things myself in my speciality. We are all capable of creating things (many million times more complicated things than a washing machine) without the guidance of God. Those things have flaws when first created, but they keep improving not due to some guidance from God, but to make our lives more comfortable. We humans strive for betterment everyday. Similarly, I think we can create our own code of conduct. It may have flaws, but we can keep improving it and correcting the mistakes in it without any guidance from God. I am sure we can do a good job with pride and we can take care of ourselves without guidance.
RE:RE:COME TO ISLAM {TOTAL SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF ONE CREATOR}
by Vasim Modak on Jun 05, 2007 08:10 AM Permalink
Thus it is not at all possible to have multiple creators of this universe!
RE:RE:COME TO ISLAM {TOTAL SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF ONE CREATOR}
by Vasim Modak on Jun 05, 2007 08:20 AM Permalink
The question as to whether the Qur'an is really the word of GOD?? Well I can prove it to you from a scientific point of view that it cannot be from anyone else than GOD. It is the ONLY BOOK ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH WHICH HAS NOT CHANGED A SINGLE DOT OR ALPHABET IN IT. It has remained safe from any interpolation or additions in the last more than 1400 years or so. It was revealed to a people who were IDIOTS AND BARABARIC to say the least and transformed them to being amongst the most advanced people of their times. It contains in it signs from the field of science- Astronomy,geology, hydrology,& water cycle, embryology, botany, zoology, etc None of these signs contradict with ANY CONCEPT OF PROVEN MODERN SCIENCE.
RE:COME TO ISLAM {TOTAL SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF ONE CREATOR}
by Sarath Chandra on Jun 05, 2007 08:23 AM Permalink
Still, we are humans and we are not capable of deciding whether this is true or not, according to your first post. Human's logic is imperfect, they cannot make right decisions, so humans cannot decide whether what you said is right or wrong. This follows from your belief. I obviously don't think so.
RE:COME TO ISLAM {TOTAL SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF ONE CREATOR}
by Sriram Vangal on Jun 05, 2007 08:26 AM Permalink
And the same thing that keeps its followers barbaric even to day. Any idea, needs constant debate and evolution should be an ongoing process. A stgnant pool of water breeds oly deseases. It is the flowing river, that sustains life.
RE:COME TO ISLAM {TOTAL SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF ONE CREATOR}
by sharp head on Jun 05, 2007 08:36 AM Permalink
what is islam man kill khafirs rape khafirs women loot khafirs property like this several wrong statements are there. you belive in them and you want whole world to belive that. No religion has seen god or no messenger has seen god. every one claims as respresentative of god and what he tolf is perfect and all others are bad and wrong. If we apply common sense we can know what is told by your religion is not correct
RE:COME TO ISLAM {TOTAL SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF ONE CREATOR}
by Vasim Modak on Jun 05, 2007 08:48 AM Permalink
Do you think Mr Sharp head that it is in Islam that it is told to kill Kaafirs? No it is a verse in the qur'an which is always taken out of context by Islam-bashers. The verse in the qur'an which speaks about the killing of unbelievers is about the treaty of Mecca which was broken by the ignorant tribes of mecca and then they were given an ultimatum to come back to the rteraty or face war...In war the muslims were ordered to kill these people if they were found ...BUT DEAR BROTHER WHY DONT YOU GO ON TO THE NEXT VERSE OF THE QUR'AN AND SEE WHAT THAT SAYS?It says if these people want peace give them peace and ACCOMPANY THEM TO A PLACE OF SAFETY AND SECURITY FOR THEM (Qur'an Chapter Tauba Verses1-8) Now come on Brothers sharp head and shriram Did KRISHNA NOT URGE Arjun to go ahead and fight his cousins? did that mean that all hindus should kill his cousins??? No it was a fight between right and wrong. I would be wrong to say anything of this sort about Krishna's advice to Arjun when he felt like dying unarmed on the battlefield rather than fighting his own cousins..THAT WOULD BE OUT OF CONNTEXT ON MY PART & A grave sin if I were to say such a thing....Similarly Try to understand what the Qur'an and the Prophet's teachings say..NOT WHAT A FEW MUSLIMS DO
RE:COME TO ISLAM {TOTAL SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF ONE CREATOR}
by sreekanth agneswaran on Jun 05, 2007 08:43 AM Permalink
Very, very true, Sriram... And Vasim, whoever gave you this idea that Sanatan Dharma preaches multiple creators of the universe??? Get a hang of Sanatan Dharma first... thus, get a life.
RE:RE:COME TO ISLAM {TOTAL SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF ONE CREATOR}
by Vasim Modak on Jun 05, 2007 08:55 AM Permalink
Yes Mr Shrikanth Thats what I am saying lets come to what are the commonalities between our religions from our sciptures The Vedas say 1)EKKAM IVIDVITYAM 2)NACHASHYA KASHIJ JANITA NA JANIPAH 3)aNDHYATMAM PRAVISHYANTEI YA SAMBHOOTE UPAASANEI 4)eKKAM BAMHAM DWITIYA NAASTE NIHNA NAASTE KINCHAN The same principles are enshrined in the Qur'an in the Chapter IKHLAAS of the Qur'an which says that he is allah one and only he is the absolute the eternal. He does not beget nor is he begotten there is none of his likeness he is free of all wants (Needs) SO WHERE IS THE DIFFERENCE OF OPINION IN THE CONCEPT OF GOD BETWEEN US?
RE:RE:COME TO ISLAM {TOTAL SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF ONE CREATOR}
by Vasim Modak on Jun 05, 2007 08:30 AM Permalink
Mr Sriram what makes you feel that it is Islam which makes it followers BARBARIC? please do not make any statements without qualifying them with good proof
RE:COME TO ISLAM {TOTAL SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF ONE CREATOR}
by Vasim Modak on Jun 05, 2007 08:32 AM Permalink
RE:RE:RE:COME TO ISLAM {TOTAL SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF ONE CREATOR} by Vasim Modak on Jun 05, 2007 08:27 AM Please do not misunderstand me when I say that humans are incapable of deciding what is good or what is bad ...This goodnesss or otherwise is regarding the general principles of the way of life.. eg if you have a washing machine at your home would you go ahead and just switch it on immediately or would you not first go to the user's manual to read what are the special precautions you need to take for operating that machine? would you not teach yourslef about what to do and what not to do with that machine How much soap for how many clothes. Whats the max capacity load that it can take ...would you know of it beforehand without the guidance manual or some instructions form the manufacturer? Humans are also such sofisticated and complex machines who HAVE TO HAVE GUIDANCE FROM ITS CREATOR AND THATS POSSIBLE ONLY THROUGH A GUIDANCE WHICH IS FROM his Creator alone
RE:COME TO ISLAM {TOTAL SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF ONE CREATOR}
by Sriram Vangal on Jun 05, 2007 08:35 AM Permalink
All the killings of innocents, punishimg the VIctim in a rape case -- there r numorous. First introspect. As you said, Islam was a very great idea 1400 years ago. But how relevent is it today, where ppl of different faiths have to live together?
Mr. Ravi deserves what he has got. He is living with/under most condemned views (e.g. garaha-dasha ) of dark ages.
Simple. You do not like it, boycott it. I understand this temple is run the govt. In that case govt can put up with all these nonsenses (purification etc).
If this is purely a brahminical arrogance what would it be when Ravi's wife commented that had she brought up their children in the christian way her husband's community would have cut them to pieces?
RE:Brahminical arrogance?
by Sampath S on Jun 05, 2007 09:18 AM Permalink
She is also blaming the hindus and her husband's relatives in the bargain. What a docile dutiful daughter in law?
The moderator is going to block me for some days as he has done in the past. The guy just doesn't stand dissent.
Anyways i just want to draw th attention to few things
1)The story is #1 on the front page. Yeah sure does deserve all this attention.One could ask if rediff is so socially inclined what was it doing during the "horrors" being committed at bangalore by xian priests and pastors. For dissentors, google the story and you would see whati am saying. 2)Xians have been the ones voicing their angst. Why not so many muslims? 3)Never once has any xian said that conversion by allurement is bad. They raise questions on "forced conversions" which were aptly answered but not once they said anything against the conversion.These people support it whole heartedly. They are just waiting for critical mass to be attained and then they would unleash their horrors as history has proven
I am no radical but then i am leaning towards right as the secularism is no longer an answer for a place where the meaning and purpose is served selectively. I dont want hindus to be persecuted in their own land. Yes India is hindu land period. 3% xians cant call it xian land nor can 17% muslims call it theirs. It is ours and you better learn to respect that
RE:Okay here is the fact
by DDBhaumik on Jun 05, 2007 08:09 AM Permalink
"3% xians can't call it xian land nor can 17% muslims call it theirs. It is ours and you better learn to respect that.."
Is this guy out of his mind? Is he living in 20th century or in the Germany of the 1930s?India belongs to every individual Indian, irrespective of what religion/ caste/ class/ profession he belongs to..Remember brahmins are also only 3%, but does it mean India does not belong to them? It belongs to them, to us, to all who are Indians.. If you do not like it that way you are free to go and live elsewhere, friend.
People like HHH are trying their best to destroy Hinduism. What more to say?
RE:Okay here is the fact
by Kalai Selvan on Jun 05, 2007 08:05 AM Permalink
From time immemorial the RSS goons allege that christians are converting all and sundry but their population is seems to be just 3% for ages. How?
RE:RE:Okay here is the fact
by HHH on Jun 05, 2007 10:14 AM Permalink
What is wrong with you guys?I said 3% xians.When did i say 3% brahmins.Those poor souls are already extinct.Bhaumik, well said.I agree with your sentiments.But i personally domnt share those.I wish there are more people like you and less like me.But like i said i have seen xianity up close and personal.It is the filthiest religion.In fact it is nothing more than cult.Period
RE:Okay here is the fact
by Sam Karoti on Jun 05, 2007 08:03 AM Permalink
Conversion by allurement is not just bad. It is a crime.Jail the ones who forcibly convert whoever it is and from what ever religion.
RE:Okay here is the fact
by Black Stallion on Jun 05, 2007 08:00 AM Permalink
How can 3% bramins call india their land? India is the land of dalits and BC's. Bramins have no place here.
This is criminally ridiculous of Kerala priests to meet out such treatment to Mr Vayalar Ravis's family. In fact priests are to perform puja and take care of the temple. Who is Hindu and who is not is the matter decided by Hindus.
The preists must follow the dictats of masses not vice versa. We should agitate more fiercely than Gandhiji did during temple entry movement and teach these hypocrytes a strearn lesson. Sanjay Misra
We seem to thrive on controversies. Any incident can be used for mudslinging. All are losers unless we learn from the drama.
This incident happenned only because of the high profile of the people involved. The discussions that followed have raised much heat. Frankly, nobody has seen God or experienced the Almighty. I have met people totally irreligious and atheists, never missing an opportunity to help others. The religious ones are generally self centred, parochial, calculative and wear their faith on their sleeves. It is hypocricy at its worst. Every religion or caste is based on rituals passed down over centuries and are not dynamic. We can easily take potshots, especially if we do not belong to them. Vayalar Ravi should not use this incident to tarnish his faith and must respect the traditions. Despite his background, Ravi & family are having a comfortable life than even "upper caste people". They still proudly declare their caste and benefit from them.
We are prepared to fight and die over unseen Gods. I met a gentlemen who is highly religious telling me that he would prefer to go to hell as he can have company of people, who gave him much joy in this world, as compared to drab atmosphere in heaven, to put up pretences and live under a constant whip.
Let us take our life easy. Anyway we have no idea where we were before our birth and the whole thing can turn out to be meaningless and a joke, remembered by few and that too for the wrong reasons.
RE:Religion & Caste
by HHH on Jun 05, 2007 07:23 AM Permalink
Shiva, You talk sense.Absolutely agree. Hindus would agree with your posts but not the fanatic xians and muslims. They would impress that on hindus but not follow that themselves."Thy shalt not follow what thou preach"
TN has put this greedy creatures in place. Now Tirupati is ruled by there so called priests who have become brokers to the powerful. They have any respect for common man but look at their attitude towards Money bags. They have been beggars wnd will continue to be beggars.
