People had very high hopes from this Mannu but he has dashed all of them. He talked of a systems failure during the harshad mehta days. He himself is holding the PM's post without even getting elected, again a case of systems failure. He would have signed a one-sided agreement with US long back but for Dr Kakodkar who actually saved us to some extent. This weak and pathetic PM does not want to answer any questions at all but wants to raise his legs. If he has the guts, let him release the agreement in public domain, ask the opinions of people like Dr Kalam and then hold a open public debate where he answers all the queestions. Only then he can get rid of the 'jaichand' factor which is now getting attached to him.
RE:A cunning but innocent looking man
by Ananth N on Jul 27, 2007 10:30 PM Permalink
AG, I agree with all your points... but what additional authority do you expect we give to Kalam...for god's sake, he was there as President for 5 years and was truthful to his post (being dummy) and could have raised hell a lot of questions given his experience. I would hate to receive a response that he did what he could or he could not do more being a president. that would be ridiculous. If that is true, then our country should have a debate calling a President the first citizen of our country.. just venting my frustration and nothing against you, AG
I am inexperienced comment on this , but there definitely is a lot of positive things about this 1)India becomes a friendly nation among the nuclear powers . An acceptance by US means , other super club members , france , britain etc will find it easy and explainable to have defense/civil technology deals with india.
2)Exposure to methodologies and processes adopted by advanced countries will help our labs to become truly global.A deal with US would help us brand our nuclear capabilities .So we can probably be the front runners in nuclear power development and sell those to countries like bangladesh and nepal or sri lanka or to even pakistan after all they were indians at one time. Like the russians selling gas . Since we have US validated processes, it would be easy to get approval from world polices including US,UN and all the other big boys.
3)India can counter China's military ambitions Whether we like it or not pakistan is not the place from where we have security and economical threats. China and India are the greatest nations in the world,both has a great history , massive human power. So in the global market these two cultures will lock their horns.Infact the clash would not just be economical or military. It would a clash of two civilizations. The next cold war would be between India and China. You cannot protect your home if you are not strong militarily, china could bring forth troubles by assisting pakistan so as to remove indias focus on economic
RE:Advantages that india have with this deal
by Peter Parker on Jul 27, 2007 09:54 AM Permalink
ok here are my answers 1. for enough money all these powers would have sold anything 2. methodologies bullocks. we have all the methodologies what we need is the raw material and that too temporarily 3. china is way ahead of us dude. they have enough money and more guts. We are saddled with weaklings such as MMS and Pawar that are poodles to the grand italian empress.
Personally this is nothing but a sellout. Why is this done, so that the next time they buy a reactor from GE they can get commissions. That is really the true game over here.
RE:Advantages that india have with this deal
by Praveen George on Jul 27, 2007 10:10 AM Permalink
Peter 1)You think India is too poor to pay for a few F16ns and China does not own anything better than Mig 21s? Pakistan is more or less a relic now those guys are really feeling royally pitiful of their own condition . So let us stop considering pakistan as our nemesis. Todays wars are fought on the global markets. You should be more worried if China buys up every share in some oil field in nigeria than some pakistani shouting destruction to india. The first is a serious threat to Indias energy security the second is a joke .
2)Well methodology does matter. Infact our technological slavery is due to lack of disciplined appraoch to everything from Politics to Science . China though they are not that different from indians in terms of smartness achieved great strides because of two things 1)Strong political will 2)Ability to transfer scientific research into sellable commodities
3)So what , we have to run 10 miles instead of 7 . We are doing good now .
RE:Advantages that india have with this deal
by Peter Parker on Jul 27, 2007 10:20 AM Permalink
sigh u dont get it do you? Why are we behind china in the rat race ? are they better ? Are they more qualified? The answers are no, its mainly because their leaders are thinking about china first knowing fully well that if china rises they rise to (after all they control china). Look at the textile market, they captured it in 2-3 years by spending $100 bn dollars. Now they are going after diamonds, software and you name it. they are building 100 IITs. In india we are not even able to get 10 IITs up and running smoothly. government is lacklustre and this prime minister, claiming credit for the first set of financial reforms even though he was a finance minister, is not able to implement the second carte of reforms either.
What this nuclear agreement is about is a low cost deal (low cost for kangress) but at a very high cost to the nation.
The nuclear bomb always was with india from the brave indira gandhi, who was the boldest of the prime ministers, india ever had, just think abt going for a nuc test at the time india was no more than another backward country from the third world, vajpayee took a step ahead and showed the world what we always had, the technology in place is that after the series of nuc test at vajpayees time the scientists had collected data, which they use to simulate the tests in super compueter environments, just as the US does, hence theres no need for india to go for expensive nuclezar tests, because we too are following the same simulation techniques !!
RE:We need not test our nuclear bombs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Peter Parker on Jul 27, 2007 09:16 AM Permalink
abhe daakhan ke, ek test se kya hota hai. Tereko kya sundari milli thi ek test se, jo tu shanpati karilaya hai ?
RE:We need not test our nuclear bombs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by sam kr on Jul 27, 2007 10:29 AM Permalink
Mr.Peter , you speak like a modern day illetrate, you should yourself admit that, you dont know a bit of science, i suppose !! have you ever heard of simulation, its a bit high level for people like you , you go and watch Aap Ka surror , its movie for small brains like you !!!!!!!!!!!!!
RE:We need not test our nuclear bombs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Peter Parker on Jul 27, 2007 10:34 AM Permalink
itna scientific hai tho ameriki logon ne kyon ek hazar tests kiyen? Ek hazar tests karne ke bad woh aur sabko bol rahen hai ki tests mat karon. Auron ko ullu bana rahen hain yeh log. Aur agar mereko sundari milti to mein bhi test nahin karta.
RE:We need not test our nuclear bombs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by sam kr on Jul 27, 2007 10:44 AM Permalink
The time america was testing the technology was not in shape to confidently, go ahead with such techniques but with the time it has got better, anyway we indians can do better than them !! for more read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pokhran-II#The_Test_Team
RE:RE:We need not test our nuclear bombs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Peter Parker on Jul 27, 2007 10:50 AM Permalink
woh toh kisi dakhan ne likha hoga. Uske upar kaun bharosa karenga. Agar hamera pas dam hai to test karke batao. Sharmane ki kya bat hai? Mere khyal se kafi sare logon ne bataya hai ki ek test fail hua tha. So use dubara test 100 bar karon aur eske bad jahan chahe apni ungli dabana
RE:We need not test our nuclear bombs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by sam kr on Jul 27, 2007 10:57 AM Permalink
Hey , you may be correct, but you see the message that we wanted to give the world through the tests, we have already given that 'India shouldnt be just taken for granted' , the best example is the nuclear deal .
RE:We need not test our nuclear bombs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Peter Parker on Jul 27, 2007 11:00 AM Permalink
message be damned.. what we want is 100% confidence in our jewels. right now we dont have that confidence and nor does our target(S)
All the reports are circular. What are the answers for these questions? 1. Will we get technology, unrestricted import of technology and equipment, free availability of fuel for civilian/power applications? 2. Are we allowed to continue with our nuclear defense programme, unhindered and unmonitored? Can we stockpile nuclear warheads? 3. Who will process the main fuel and spent fuel for civil and defense applications? 4. What restrictions will be put on foreign investment in those industries whose equipment/products/services have duel use?
RE:What is the deal?
by Peter Parker on Jul 27, 2007 09:20 AM Permalink
good questions.. and the answer is probably no since the government is not ready to disclose what they signed. Standard delhi policy is claim victory for a while, then before the document has to be public they will slowly release the bad news. These people have given up something, what they are not willing to say. From the public pronouncements its very clear that Manmohan jaichand singh is not willing to test any more nukes.
RE:What is the deal?
by Santhosh on Jul 27, 2007 09:48 AM Permalink
Purna, The question of reports being circular does not arise. That's because the report is not out yet. The Government has not released it. What's doing the rounds is, as usual, rumours or presumptions, if you will. From the "coolness" of our eminently learned PM in this meeting, it is clear that the agreement is favourable to us. Also, as the opposition(which raises a cry at the slightest possible chance) is not raising any issue, it is certain that the agreement is "made for us". Your questions are very relevant but only when the details of the agreement are released, they can be answered.
RE:What is the deal?
by RR on Jul 27, 2007 10:42 AM Permalink
Dont worry, your questions will be sooner or later answered by our great Aaj Tak channel whose reporters might be on the prowl. Anyday they might come up with the breaking news "exclusive" with a copy of handful of papers and highlighted lines.
RE:What is the deal?
by purna on Jul 27, 2007 08:46 PM Permalink
I was referring to the rediff posting; not the agreement with US.
1.He (PM)is well aware of the fact that opposition parties, whether they hate it or love it, have to live with it.
2. In both meetings, PMO officials have told politicians that the 123 agreement doesn't mention India's right to nuclear test. Since the 123 agreement is silent on the future test it's not binding on India, argue the negotiators.
UScan take any action it deems fit under the circumstances, if India does a test.
As of now, except for the PM and his negotiators, the deal is still and "Unclear Deal". So it is too premature for the PM to take satsifaction. Further more, it will be futile to believe that the US will support India if at anytime it feels that its own interests are at stake.
The best way for any Govt to make it an inclusive negotiation for such important subjects, is to include all the major parties in the negotiations. Remember, Mr.Narasimha Rao as PM had deputed Mr. Vajpayee to the UN. But, in the set up that is in place now, the ruling combine views the oppostion as enemies.
Credibility of the Indian Express is much much more than Rediff!
Sheela Bhat appears more and more a Congress Honcho.
Here is a analysis of the same news by the Indian Express.
http://www.indianexpress.com/story/207127.html
The tone, sources said, was set when before the UPA briefing for the BJP began, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh walked out of his official residence at the RCR complex to welcome former prime minister Atal Behari Vajpayee with the words: I have completed what you began.
He was referring to Vajpayee's efforts to end India's nuclear apartheid by offering the separation of civilian and nuclear reactors as early as 2002.
This was one of the rare occasions when the ruling UPA combine has reached out to the main Opposition party. Prominent among those who attended the briefing were Jaswant Singh, Yashwant Sinha, Rajnath Singh, Arun Shourie and former National Security Advisor Brajesh Mishra. Opposition leader L K Advani did not attend as he was en route to Singapore.
This is the true jaichand. Shameless, having sold the nations security down the tube to his anglo - saxon / italian masters. He lifts his feet confident that his dastardly act cannot be reversed. he doesnt realize that his political career is over and he will be dumped by his italian empress as soon as the news is spread across the land that he has sold the nations security.
RE:RE:Manmohan Jaichand Singh....
by my message on Jul 27, 2007 08:44 AM Permalink
Or when the Italian empress's daughter or son is ready to take over!!!!!!
Credibility of the Indian Express is much much more than Rediff!
Sheela Bhat appears more and more a Congress Honcho.
Here is a some analysis of the same news by the Indian Express.
http://www.indianexpress.com/story/207127.html
The tone, sources said, was set when before the UPA briefing for the BJP began, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh walked out of his official residence at the RCR complex to welcome former prime minister Atal Behari Vajpayee with the words: %u201CI have completed what you began.%u201D
He was referring to Vajpayee%u2019s efforts to end India%u2019s nuclear apartheid by offering the separation of civilian and nuclear reactors as early as 2002.
This was one of the rare occasions when the ruling UPA combine has reached out to the main Opposition party. Prominent among those who attended the briefing were Jaswant Singh, Yashwant Sinha, Rajnath Singh, Arun Shourie and former National Security Advisor Brajesh Mishra. Opposition leader L K Advani did not attend as he was en route to Singapore.
RE:Party Time
by Huzaifa Najmi on Jul 27, 2007 09:06 AM Permalink
Well I suppose Dr. Manmmoham Singh had a separate meeting with you and appraised you of the nuclear deal. Afterall you may be the only one who can understand the complicated deal and figure out , that the nations security was sold. Wish talented people like you were part of the negotiating process.
RE:Party Time
by Vineit on Jul 27, 2007 09:21 AM Permalink
You People will always blindly support any deeds of the congress people. remember Mr Singh is a Congress PM, a slave of an Italian Lady, what good they can do for the country.
I have always been against any partnership between India and USA ,because India is very vulnerable and is going to get hurt in the long run. US is too cunning for Indians and their leaders who still have the watermarks of British Raj.
RE:RE:Party Time
by Praveen George on Jul 27, 2007 09:49 AM Permalink
When our grand fathers were the slaves of british then none of your favorite leaders or their fathers thought 'Hindus were ruled by british' so let us fight.Instead the secular people thought we are denied our right to live free.
Why do you have to accuse Dr Manmohan Singh as the slave of an Italian Lady. If you dont' like Sonia that is fine. Don't tell crap about Dr Manmohan.Don't look at who does good , instead of first asking whether he is BJP, Muslim League, Communist or Congress , say cheers.Give any one who bring forth some good deed credit to that.
RE:Party Time
by Praveen George on Jul 27, 2007 08:55 AM Permalink
Well you know the price that Dr Manmohan got for selling the nations security right? Why don't you announce that as well . Man learn to say cheers when good things are done and to say booh when bad things are done ..
RE:Party Time
by Jehan Mir on Jul 27, 2007 10:33 AM Permalink
I think he got a lot more than US was willing to give. That is an accomplishment even though US desperately wants to penetrate India and had to acquiesce .
The US Congress still has to approve.
As the saying goes ," Its not over till the fat lady sings"
