Unless US realise the folly in their act, there can be no real progress; and this will not happen soon.It may take 2 years or more, patience is a virtue.
Indian legal system can not be compromised just to conform to Hyde Act. Let us tell the US leadership a poilte thank you and hope for better luck next time.
RE:tension nahin lene kaa
by dull roots on Jul 19, 2007 07:57 AM Permalink
The deal break will inevitably lead to stalling of strategic cooperation and may be a sharp dip in share market. The pressures for compromise the deal would be quite high, it is virtually impossible that our soft but TOUGH PM will ever relent. India indeed is in safe hands.
RE:RE:tension nahin lene kaa
by dull roots on Jul 19, 2007 08:44 AM Permalink
The last leg will also break soon! Next time let us open our education sector to US and West, so that they trust us more.
The US signed treaties like the NPT and the like only to stem the growth of missile technologies in other nations...
US has scientifically advanced to a stage that it does not want others to share and hence it becomes imperative for the US to monitor other nations' nucleur/missile developments...
and hence the idea of deals and treaties...
a clever plot in which the people of India would be led to believe that there is going to be transfer of knowledge/energy from the US to India (in whatever means that may be)... while the ulterior motive is only to spy on us...
RE:US treaties
by gatzzz on Jul 18, 2007 04:22 PM Permalink
This isnt about spying and the 123 agreement is not another 007 movie. The 123 agreement is to relax some sactions US has imposed on India and to allow India to have their fair share in world market to purchase nuclear technology and fuels for peaceful purposes like energy.
There are benefits for both parties. For India its to suffice the huge energy appetite and for US it is to survive their economy.
India along with China and Japan hold a lot of dollars in their iron chests. If it is diluted little bit then US economy will crash. Secondly India is becoming a major player in the world both economically and geo-politically. Having India as their ally will benefit US in the long run. China is a country that they cannot trust. Every American knows that they will have a war with China one day.
So its in the mutual interest of both countries that the 123 agreement has kicked off. Its only the minute details on which both parties are worried about. One of them being the transperancy of purchased fuel being used for energy generation and second one being spent fuel usage. US is scared that India will use the spent fuel for developing nuclear weapons. The agreement started with India being required to sign NPT but thats under the table now. Its not a pre-requisite anymore.
Countries like France and Russia are also supporting the agreement because its not a compulsion for India to purchase fuel from US alone. We can buy fuel or technology either from Russia or France.
RE:RE:US treaties
by Sesh on Jul 18, 2007 05:08 PM Permalink
US has earlier withdrawn from its agreement to supply energy to Tarapur plant... remember that...
India has still not tapped its resources to the maximum thus the energy deficit...
US deal will come with strings attached and they will not hesitate to pull the strings when needed...
We had earlier bought fuel from France, China and now from Russia... Signing more deals would not help our minds... rather uncorrupted knowledge will
RE:RE:RE:US treaties
by gatzzz on Jul 18, 2007 08:11 PM Permalink
I hope you have to know why US backed out of Tarapur plant? Its because of increased insecurity of a possible Nuclear testing.
"India has still not tapped its resources to maximum thus the energy deficit"
True!!! But the deal is not just to enrich energy needs for the energy crippled country. India could use its nuclear weapons status as a lever to push for a multipolar world system as well as for global restraints on the development of WMD's. Or it could use its status as an instrument to help perpetuate an order based on the production of insecurity and violence in which it eventually hoped to be accommodated as a junior partner. But thats not a country on the outlook to become a major player in the world wants to become.
Just imagine how could US blithely walk away from 40 years of non-proliferation policy? Its just that there is a tectonic shift that is taking place in the bilateral relationship as a result of increasing fears in U.S. business and strategic circles about China. Giving India anything less, or insisting that it cap or scrap its nuclear weapons, is seen by Washington's neo-conservatives as tantamount to strengthening China in the emerging balance of power in Asia.
India is taking this to its own advantage and fullfilling energy needs is just one reason among many outlined in the 123 agreement.
US needs balance of power in Asia to counter China and India needs its borders secured and dont want to be beside an upcoming superpower.
RE:US treaties
by Balu Durai on Jul 21, 2007 01:20 AM Permalink
Yes. Good input. kudos. There is no permanent friend or enemy in politics. Our interests are important in the longer term.
US has managed to attract a vast knowledge base and hence its supremacy... its ability to acknowledge the learned is its greatest asset.
India on the other had is corrupt and is engaged in retribution of the dark ages' phenomena...
This is the attitude which has led to the brain drain and the resulting disaster in India... It is time that we, as Indians, recognise this potential danger and strive for knowledge... for uncorrupted knowledge is the true power that can enable us to lead a safe life...
This Indo US deal is a classic example of our weakening system... let us all learn from this and correct the anomalies...
1. The meritorious should be awarded due recognition.
2. Corruption should be severely punishable
3. Educational Institutions should not be made to carry on trading of "knowledge"
4. No reservations based on any "damn excuses"
Let us correct our education system which is the most important issue and the others would automatically fall in place...
is there a working thorium reactor ? in that case the deal with america or NPT need not be signed. the so called thorium reactor will be produced after 30 years (which wont work just like arjun tank or tejas fighter) and by that time ther wont be any energy for power.
the very few projects that work - brahmos & isro rockets are done with close russian collaboration.
so know the limitations of the local science establishment (the best scientist from india are in america), thats imperative.
RE:look at it clearly, have indian scientists delivered...no.
by inkypinky on Jul 18, 2007 02:24 PM Permalink
all the best meritorious scientists from india are already left and working for USA, few mediocre ones remaining behind and eating up government salary and making big claims.
indian scientists prefer to work for america, only those whose visa has been rejected remain behind
TWO INDIANS HAVE WON NOBEL PRIZE FOR USA (KHORANA, CHANDRASEKHAR) WHILE ONLY ONE HAS WON NOBEL PRIZE FOR INDIA (C.V.RAMAN) AND THAT TOO IN 1930 BEFORE INDEPENDENCE.
SHOWS CLEARLY INDIAN SCIENTISTS PREFER TO WORK FOR AMERICA
RE:look at it clearly, have indian scientists delivered...no.
by Sesh on Jul 18, 2007 03:46 PM Permalink
inky... this is not the time to reflect back and accept us collaboration...
it is about our future and our defence capabilities... and our ability to build a strong nuclear programme...
in such a state, it is not beneficial in national interests to appease us... what benefits does india has from this programme..?? and why is us so desperate to end this talks favourable to us...
agreed indian system is corrupt and faltering.. but it does not imply that we compromise on our national security...
RE:look at it clearly, have indian scientists delivered...no.
by ratnesh srivastav on Jul 18, 2007 04:43 PM Permalink
inkypinky is american chamcha, Kadcha, Patila etc
RE:look at it clearly, have indian scientists delivered...no.
by gatzzz on Jul 18, 2007 03:51 PM Permalink
There isnt a working Thorium reactor. There is just one prototype and we are no where close to develop one indegeniously in near future. But energy needs for our country are growing rapidly. So the need for this 123 agreement.
Manmohan Singh clearly know the energy needs of our huge country. With economy going above 9%, we need energy very much. So there is definite need of already established uranium nuclear reactors. Moving further we have to develop plutonium and thorium based nuclear reactors to be self reliant.
It is sad that inspite of objections from the scientific community, the govt of india is going ahead on the deal and accepting the US terms. I am feeling sad that our country is being sold away to US.
look at it clearly, have indian scientists delivered...no.
is there a working thorium reactor ? in that case the deal with america or NPT need not be signed. the so called thorium reactor will be produced after 30 years (which wont work just like arjun tank or tejas fighter) and by that time ther wont be any energy for power.
the very few projects that work - brahmos & isro rockets are done with close russian collaboration.
so know the limitations of the local science establishment (the best scientist from india are in america), thats imperative
RE:So sad!
by Krishna on Jul 18, 2007 02:56 PM Permalink
i don't know abt thorium reactor and all that. what i feel is that we should not be controlled by US keeping this deal as a reason. We should have our freedom to decide what we should and what we should not. Just because some great scientists of US have done great things doesn't mean that we should sell our freedom to them. Don't mix these issues. So what if we are not scientifically advanced as US? do u mean that, just because we are not, we should be under their control? Think about it.
RE:So sad!
by Krishna on Jul 18, 2007 03:12 PM Permalink
did u read my message correctly? i request u to read it once again. if u still feel i have put my words that way, then i am sorry i did not mean that. what i said is that we are not as advanced as US and thats ok. But that doesn't mean that we should submit ourselves to them and dance to their tunes.
Whatever is going on between India and the USA regarding Nuclear deal must be clear to all citizens of India.What are the pros and cons of this deal It must be clear by giving a statement by central goverment so that Indians do not feel like cheated by the USA and their own people.However, we all know that soon or later India will require to deal with its huge energy consumtion but that does not mean we sould compromise at cost of freedom of our own people. As I have been following with news related to this deal but I just got to know the least coz only a small part of this outcome is being published and shown to media.Therefore, I personally do doubt on the way our goverment is dealing this deal.
PM says the nuke talks with US are on the last leg of negotiations. I hope they lose that faltering leg and crash out. This whole thing has become a big gimmick and a sick joke. Sick because we are made to believe that it is now or never, a race against time, etc., etc. Now or never for whom, Indians or Americans? A race against time for whom, India or Bush? As if India went knocking on US's door asking for this deal! Did we not go about our nuke business without America or it's cronies poking their nose in our affairs all these years? In the first place who tried to isolate India and abrogate and dishonor all tie ups 33 years ago? Was it not the Americans who mindlessly cried wolf? Then why all this fake bonhomie now as if the Yankees have found their long lost brother?
I sincerely hope that the ongoing talks fail completely, uncompromisingly! It now seems that is the only way India's national interests will remain safeguarded! This one-sided deal is a total give-away jeopradising India's nuclear independence completely.
LET ONE AND ALL OF US PRAY FOR THE BREAKDOWN OF THE TALKS UNCOMPROMISINGLY!!
RE:Hopefully faltering leg!
by Rajkumar on Jul 18, 2007 02:29 PM Permalink
YES India should force US to amend Hyde Act and then restart negotiations. It should also be passed by Indian Parliament before signing final deal. Nuke testing is major issue which is not being heard in news now which is shocking.
