Rediff,please don't delete my dialogue with brother vimal bhasin. That would not be serve the cause of freedom of expression which we all need so badly.
People start an argument, then when they cannot sustain it, they report it for abuse. R the moderators at rediff jokers who cannot see thru some narrow minded people's slave mentality. Please explain why my messages r reported for abuse and accepted by rediff. Consider the entire texts of exchanges between the two of us and decide. Let the world see the strong Indian arguments and the cowardice shown by Jehan Mir. If rediff cannot stand pro Indian comments, which incidentally are true and based on facts, why at all does it have a discussion board.
Its shame that people just think with their selfish ideology. No religion teaches u hatred, its humans who bring/remove hatred amongst humans. Before being a Hindu, Muslim or any other religion first become human. Its just too much stupidity being delivered through such open message boards. I partially agree with u Jehan, but you have to accept one thing, that one of the face / main reason of terrorism is extremism. "Do this, donot do that". With the time changing, like other religions, Islam needs to learn adoptive behaviour. Its not like people are not changing, my best friend, who is a Muslim and a well literate individual is best example of modern Islam. But, even he doesnt oppose extremism to the extent he should. If you want answer to terrorism, it needs to come from Muslims, other religion people will only play blame game. Well, I can write a book on all this, but who is caring to read. Keep it up guys, keep on watering hatred. (Just show me at least 1 example in the whole history of whole world, where people were happy hating each other.)
RE:Be a good human first before belonging to a religion
by ASHOK on Jul 17, 2007 07:21 AM Permalink
Jehan Mir
7/11 event in Mumbai Suburban trains was not a suicide bombing act ( Your so called Extremism in defense). It was cold blooded murder trail, in which so many innocents were killed.
Also do not interpret things the way you like. US is using the policy of Reward as well as stick. Aid is for needy and stick is for hardliners who do not want other religions to survive and preach hatred against them.
US is finally on the right track. US should fire everyone on the think tank if they have one.
British put Chinese on Opium to dampen Chinese spirit. Prosperity and equality in daily life of average people has greater and longer lasting euphoric effect than opium and takes the pursuit of people off from other illusionary remedies.
Suicide bombings are a symptom of extreme despondency,despair and depression,where one feels that all doors are shut around him and there is nothing to live for . The only way out there is to kill oneself and others around him in a final act as a service to improve the lives of those left behind.
RE:Finally
by vimal bhasin on Jul 17, 2007 12:04 AM Permalink
Why do u always want money from others. America, china, uk, saudi.Begging is not a noble profession.
Its their doing. Its USA and UK who is in Afghanistan and put a gun on Mussaraf's head to fight against Afghan people ,with whom Pakistanis had no prior qurrel, causing worst kind of terrorism,instability and chaos on Pakistani soil.
USA could seal the Afghan/Pakistani border from Afghanistan side without involving Pakistan because USA / UK did not want to commit their forces and take up the casaulties. They rather have their men drink and watch porno movies inside secure military basis at night instead of watching the border. This was left to 80,000 Pakistani forces posted on the Pakistani / Afghan border.
Pakistan had to put up with influx of millions of Afghan refugees ,providing food and other community services on daily basis for years.
RE:Finally
by vimal bhasin on Jul 17, 2007 01:11 AM Permalink
Wrong again. Pak was close to Afghan leadership only during Taliban regime. Otherwise, Afghans have always hated Pakis despite mjority Pashtoon population. Afghans always had trading links with India since ages.Who created Taliban in the name of religion against Russia & asked for money frm US? Strategic depth...? After 9/11 u- turn, (in national interest ofcourse), who asked for money & got billions of$ to prop its economy,who became non NATO ally. Accept it,Pak foreign policy has only been to promote its strategic location & to allow others to use it in exchange for money, arms. This is begging or prostitution. Use me & pay. Whether US or China 2day. For what did Pak give part of Kashmir to China? Why is China developing Gwadar port? Action on Lal Masjid only when Chinese were attacked? U say US used gun on Musharraf's head then one, why did he listen.Two, why is he not fully delivering on Osama & Taliban & finish of the ordeal? Buddy, He is riding 2 horses & we all know what the consequences will be. But,U will not accept it 2day. U will say christian US ruined muslim Pak & seek money from Saudi & muslim world.In fact even now he is asking for more money to act. US is intelligent. It knows it can pay Pak & get the dirty work done like I pay my employees & expect them to work. They think I live a lavish life and they slog.
Now those people will be feeded with that money and after digestion they use it for purchasing guns for terrorism against America. eg:bangladesh which betrayed India
RE:www,faithfreedom.com
by vimal bhasin on Jul 16, 2007 11:44 PM Permalink
Well you cannot argue against the comments posted on Faithfreedom.com as their arguments seem convincing. It could be hit & run bcos of the danger involved to the writers. Hit&run is incidentally tactics adopted by muslim terrorists 2day. The writers of the website also are muslims as can be judged from vidoes on the site as a non muslim is not allowed in mosque. The terror 2day can be partly credited to bigger terror against muslims as you want to prove. It is a question of the egg first or the hen. But muslim history is full of violence of the kind mentioned in the site &u cannot simply deny it.It is a fact. Muslim religion was spread with Qoran in one hand & sword in the other.The big question is every religion has ve& -ve but there is discussion which helps to reform it. Muslims never allow discussion & are ready to fight for their religion bcos they are trained that way. So everywhere u have muslim settlement, there r fights. As regards who is intelligent, it is a matter of choice. some may find Osama intelligent others may think he is a coward to hide in a hole. But, If u criticise others, be prepared to be criticised too. Do not have double standards. Preach to others only if u r willing to also open ur eyes & listen. Above all have the guts to call a spade what it is.
RE:www,faithfreedom.com
by Jehan Mir on Jul 17, 2007 12:09 AM Permalink
Regarding your egg and hen analogy.Please consider the following facts for cause and effect.
Have Muslims invaded any non muslim country in the past 200 years or was there any terrorism committed by Muslims before the issues of Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan erupted?
RE:www,faithfreedom.com
by xyz abcs on Jul 17, 2007 12:35 AM Permalink
and Jehan, u cannot deny the fact that islam was spread by the sword..all the invaders of india forced millions to convert..dont take only the last 200 years into account..using ur analogy, USA is awesome because they didnt do anything stupid for the past 20 minutes
RE:RE:www,faithfreedom.com
by Jehan Mir on Jul 17, 2007 01:28 AM Permalink
Spreading Islam was only collateral ( pyar,ke side effects ) and an excuse to greed of Invaders to plunder,loot,massacre in India.
They converted Indians to Islam and married with Hindu Maharajas for political and military alliances and to protect their own interests and kingdoms.
It was as much of a subterfuge,as USA first attacking Iraq for WMD ,then after failing to find it,tried to justify it on grounds of freeing Iraqi people .
USA has sure freed Iraqis of their homes,family members and body parts. ( America ke side effects )
RE:RE:RE:www,faithfreedom.com
by vimal bhasin on Jul 17, 2007 01:40 AM Permalink
Ha Ha Ha. My dear friend, r u Javed Mir the pak columnist who is currently in US
RE:RE:www,faithfreedom.com
by vimal bhasin on Jul 17, 2007 12:35 AM Permalink
My dear friend, consider 1600 yrs of muslim history. Chances r womenfolk amongst ur forefathers would have been raped, murdered or kept as harams & theylater converted to muslim religion as they could not escape &there was no option left.I am sorry for saying this but if u r prudent u will realise it. How did muslim religion spread in India & its part that is now Pakistan.Parsis from Persian Iran r still settled in India, Christian Syria, Egypt,Africa. Check history of any region honestly. U will get only one answer. Even, the crisis of Kashmir,Palestine, Iraq & Afghanistan are political crisis. Muslims have given it a religious colour. Christians attacking muslims.Repeating the lie 100 times they now believe it 2 b truth & wrongly think it is cause. Before all this, u had saudi & iran politics - Shia Sunni fights which r now temporary on back burner. Politics has been & will continue till man lives. But muslims give it religious colour everytime & then there r calls for Jihad. When Britishers ruled India, noHindu then said that christians have attacked Hindus. All religions r good & a way 2 God.They came in different eras to solve problems of people in that era.Unfortunately, there have been more killings in this world in the name of religion than anything else.Injustices have always been part of the world.But to label this as attack on religion is what people object to. 2day muslims r killing muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan (Shia sunni)all in the name of religion.
RE:www,faithfreedom.com
by xyz abcs on Jul 17, 2007 12:30 AM Permalink
LOL ..dude muslims had invaded india for 500 years before the brits came.but one thing good is that u are one guy who doesnt believe in dogma and that is a big hurdle crossed..dogma can never be good for any religion..and whom do u refer to when u say "dumb god"..Allah and God are one and the same, so i was wondering whether u mean to say that Allah is dumb
RE:www,faithfreedom.com
by Jehan Mir on Jul 17, 2007 01:17 AM Permalink
Muhammad (PBUH) would be an inteligent human being ,if it is to be believed that he was not sent by God,and dumb god would be the god envisioned by other dogmas which make absolutely no sense whatsoever.
RE:RE:www,faithfreedom.com
by vimal bhasin on Jul 17, 2007 01:49 AM Permalink
That is ur belief. To rest of the world, Mohammad makes no sense. So, it is best not criticise. All religions have strong points and negatives. If Hindu religion has survived more than 10000 years, there must be strength init which u donot understand. If Christians worship jesus even today, there must have been miracles that you are unaware of. If god or Allah wanted only one religion to survive, it would have been a fact long ago. But all religions are surviving & growing. They are like a circle whose all radii meet in the centre. Spread love. Ego is the cause of every problem. When u say ur religion is only right then u create a problem. My religion is as good as urs. But it is a personal matter. I do not get it into business or my dealings with other. This is where muslims falter and suffer.
The Bush Administration had planned the big, regional war that might start with Afghanistan & Iraq, and that has two real aims:
[1] to secure oil, and
[2] to reconstruct the Arab world at gunpoint with compliant puppet regimes that are yet somehow "democratic."
This reconstruction will prove impossible. As we expected an increase in guerrilla warfare, or what will be called terrorism. Armed with modern weapons and technology, the fears have come true. But one thing is certain: the attempted reconstruction of the Middle East by a hated foreign imperial invader will bring it. And this is the danger that George W. Bush's wars have brought on the humanity.
They will not bring prosperity, but great insecurity.
