People from lower castes are not unintelligent. They are as capable intellectually as their upper class brethren. The entire approach to the emancipation of lower classes via reservations is inherently flawed, and in my personal opinion, an insult to people from lower classes. India nurtures dreams of becoming a global super power, yet we fail to provide decent primary and secondary education to all citizens of the nation free or nearly free of cost. We nurture dreams of becoming a global superpower but we cannot abolish child labour. Abolish child labour, make education free and compulsory up to a certain age, and provide financial help to students from poor financial backgrounds so that they wont be deprived of education due to a lack of funds. Oh, and please, none of those excuses of people always filing low income tax returns and then claiming financial aid in colleges. That's another department we, as a nation, could use some serious work in. People should be taxed for what they earn that should not be allowed to weasel out of paying it. If all of these steps are sincerely executed, we will not only maintain a tradition of rewarding merit in academic circles, but also help eradicate the negative effects of the caste system by providing educational opportunities to students from lower classes.
Of course, this entire argument is based on the assumption that reservation quotas exist to sincerely facilitate in the emancipation of lower classes in India. This is an assumption I greatly doubt.
Mr.Seshan asks "if the number of seats is adequate for everybody, where is the question of reservation hurting anybody?" That exactly is the problem. Seats are too few and aspirants are too many.
RE:'Reservation is a storm in a teacup'
by RANJAN NAGAPILLAI on Jan 24, 2007 07:16 PM Permalink
TN is a classic example of reservation . The credit goes to MGR who increased the reservation to shield against the notorious DMK and simultaneously allowed self financing engg colleges to be opened left and right. The result reservation is no more an issue and every one gets access, and if you are smart and good you do get a job in the emerging IT market.
So long as there are enough seats ther is no problem of reservation
what Mr.Seshan says is true. imagine 69% reservation in private sector. All private companies will run away from India and nobody will dare invest in a country where govt unnecessarily indulges in company's affairs to carry on with their agenda of vote bank. they will just say 'why should i run my business with my money for someone to get vote in elections'
Reservation -no politician has a clear idea about it.All they want is Vote to contine in the power.Shame on us..... Please dont divide the people in several classes .There is only one religion and caste-INDIAN 1)Strike out the religion ,caste columns in all the forms. 2)Invest more in education sector-not alone in primary schools.Higher education field ,more is required 3)Only Scholarships are required for students. No reservation required in admission process. 4)No reservation for Creamy layer people....These are the ones who corrupt this society . 5)Its shame on Manmohan who carved the best economic policy for this great Country cant find a solution on it
RE:Historical Blunders continues
by pradeep kumar on Jan 25, 2007 12:15 PM Permalink
Glad to see the only comment so far that address the root cause. Lack of educational facilities. I may be wrong, but I believe only about 15% (possibly from a Rediff article) of the school going population in India has access to higher education. One more thing about the nation's ambition to become a "knowledge power". To sustain the long term growth (western long term-25 years and beyond, not Indian long term 5-10 years).Indian should increase the quality of its existing colleges and universities and establish more IISc's (yes, not just IITs). India in such an unfortunate state that for every scientific instrument, heavy machinery and other technologies India has to look west or to Japan.
Lesson: Invest heavily on education, primary as well as higher education. Establish more universities like IISc to carry out fundamental research.
I think removing reservation is not the best idea.. Well there are other couple of measure which can be applied 1. If a person has taken a reservation, and he is in a good position then his/her children should not be allowed to take the benefits of reservation. 2. But depending on the family earning, he can be given the scholorship. or 1.Make a free education in india. I know, india is not capable of spending so much of money for free education. but lets say, if we do like this. 1.Make education free for everyone. 2.Give them study loan 3.Make them pay after the complete there study 4.Take 30-40 % for Income tax from individual as a education tax.
Because as a parents they spend nearly 40-50% of there earning in there children education.
The reason, why Iam saying this is because, Iam one of them who taken the reservation, If there was no reservation, I could have been working as waiter or riding some autorikshaw, But right now Iam working as a manager for software company, I will make sure that my children will not use reservation...
So, reservation has its benefits if used properly otherwise its a mess in a already messed up country like us... Regards Mahesh
RE:decrease reservation
by Subramanian Padmanaban on Jan 24, 2007 06:28 PM Permalink
haha. so u accept that u r incompetant and working for a job for which you are not fit for. this is what is happening due to reservation. the crutch of reservation is doing more damage to productivity of the country than good. imagine a person who is fit only to drive autorickshaw or pull a rickshaw working as a bank manager. what will be the productivity of that bank?
RE:RE:decrease reservation
by Mahesh Krishnan on Jan 24, 2007 06:41 PM Permalink
I was incompetent, but because of reservation, I have reached a position, from where i can compete with people like you, who don't understand anything ...but have a big mouth like yours..
If you wanna compete with people of lower caste, then try to be one among them, face what they are facing...then compete and let us see, how competetive you are...
RE:RE:RE:decrease reservation
by Subramanian Padmanaban on Jan 25, 2007 10:01 PM Permalink
I dont need your direction to show that I am competitive. I have already proven that I am competetive and I am working in much higher position than most of my school mates who got into engineering thru reservation. If u want to compete with us u try to throw away the crutch of reservation. Yes I am proud that u will not allow your children to use reservation but r u going to throw away an engineering or medical seat if your children has got them thru reservation or will a poor candidate from Open category is going to get that seat if you prevent your children from using reservation. The seat will be left empty. that is the reality in IIT and IIMs today. Most of the seats that are not used for reserved categories are just left empty and the capable candidates whose dream was to become an engineer or doctor is being put to task only for the sake of vote bank.
RE:RE:RE:RE:decrease reservation
by Mahesh Krishnan on Jan 26, 2007 03:22 PM Permalink
Hi Mr Padmanban I am not giving you any direction, and FYI, Iam also working in much higher position compare to my FC counterparts, FYI Iam not working in India, Iam working for one of the top gloabl company in europe, these people did not asked my caste before taking me, they just saw whether my capabilities and hired me, but why do you think people with lower caste are not competative.
They to want to become doctors or engineers, but when they are struggling to earn bread for 2 times a day, how can they think of becoming a doctors and engineers, if govt does not support them.
Please treat us with some respect, we too deserve respect like everybody else.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:decrease reservation
by santan g on Jan 28, 2007 02:51 PM Permalink
No body is saying lower castes are inferior! Where did any one say that? If the people from a few castes keep asking for reservation to get in to professional colleges, even after scoring 35% marks,what should one make of this? There are two castes.those meritorious and who depend on hard work and brains and those of rubbish castes who depend on caste certificate for survival. Since there is a mention of western countries having not asked your caste, and given you a job on merit alone, I am asking you, why should caste based reservation be there in India? Why can not the Indians all be one??? The arguement goes on and on.Till it comes to the same crappy end.We need reservation because your ( read forward castes) great grand fathers suppresed my great great grand father (read backward castes) and so we need reservation! The other point is who is religiously going to the government and declaring themselves to be backward and asking for a caste certificate?? The government is not issuing a certificate to say some one is from forward caste.But the same govt is issuing a certificate that some people belonging to some castes are backward.If this is not backward inferiro mentality then what is? There 7000 and odd castes and 4-5 castes are not in the backward list! What is the meaning of this? Do not go begging to the government for a caste certificate and automatically you become forward caste.Get the caste name deleted from the govt list. The assumption that all the forward castes are rich is stupid and even stupider is the assumption that all backward castes are poor.There is mentally froward acstes and mentally backward castes.period.
I am impressed with your thoughts taht you dont want ur children to use reservation...but tell me if thye dont get good job during their struggling time and they want to use the reservation to get a good job what you will do that time? becasue as a person everyone wants to get a good job no matter how that comes.... At the same time i really admire your thoguhts and the way u think.....
RE:RE:decrease reservation
by Mahesh Krishnan on Jan 24, 2007 06:53 PM Permalink
Mr Anil Yes you are right, because everyone wants there children to be happy and successful, But as you said, there are chances that I may allow them to use reservation, But at the same time I really hate myself if i do that..
So, why should I'll be given a chance to do that.. Iam succesful now, I will become more succesful in future, if there is something from where i can remove my status as SC. let me know, I will do it right now, because I got the benefits of reservation because of SC caste, But I lost more important person in my life because of that.
I will be more happy to remove myself from SC status, but how can i do that????
Don't worry I will make sure my children will not use it...they will be succesful without using the reservation..
RE:RE:RE:decrease reservation
by on Jan 24, 2007 11:27 PM Permalink
Hey i like this attitude of Mahesh.To be honest my father di the same and me and my bro didnt get reservation and we are proud of it ,we fought in the general merit class and making it .But sadly no one in my family which is way affluent than most in my community has never embraced this notion of no reservation for their kids !! and all of them are looking for that handout ..which i feel is disgusting .Most disgusting factor is lots of creamy layer people are hoarding their well entrenched position in scoiet and getting the benefits of reservation
RE:RE:RE:decrease reservation
by MP Raju on Jan 29, 2007 05:51 PM Permalink
Hi Mahesh,
Could you please tell me how can I remove myself from the "Forward Caste" status even though my entire household and all close relatives were slightly better than beggers. I was not pampered by anyone.I had to fight severly for scholarship. And when I learned hard and got a moderately good ranking in my engineering entrance (I don't claim I had great ranking, but far better than some of my friends who had all fortunes), I was bypassed because of my "Forward Caste" label.. Tell me how can I remove the "Forward Caste" status?.. The number of members in my so called caste is very less and economically very weak, so we don't have that kind of political support for including us in the backward community list.. What can we do??
RE:RE:RE:RE:decrease reservation
by Mahesh Krishnan on Jan 30, 2007 07:31 PM Permalink
Sorry buddy, I can't help you much in this case, but don't be so desperate to get into backward caste, because you may get benefits of caste based reservation but you will end up loossing more valuable in life, so don't go for it. But if you really wanna snatch the benefits meant your underprivileged friends, then you don't have to work much, It easy because I know many people who belong to forward caste and claim the benefits meant for backward communities, Let me know, if you are interested to snatch the benefits from underprivilege one's.
Life is hard buddy for me and you too,cause we both have different ways to looks things..
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:decrease reservation
by op suman on Feb 02, 2007 04:28 PM Permalink
Dear, no one can change their castes, merely pious wishing will not do . You are higher & lower caste by birth. The Hindu law giver "RISHI MANU" has given the beautiful gifts to all Hindus "The Caste System" !!. It may sound to you very absurd in this century, but this is starkest reality of today. Anti- Reservationist higher castes fan must organise movements to uproot the casteism from the society if you want really reservation to go, after all MANU was your benefactor !
I belong to so called reserved class working professionally for 10 years. I can see that reserved candidates are more effective than others. Especially ladies members, other ladies have lot of stuff other than work to do in offices like makeup, chit-chat, etc. Since the reserved woman either don't know how to do other things at work, or other people donot involve them not because they are reserved but are from lower caste. CASTEISM STILL EXISTS and thats the reason all opposition is all about.
RE:Reserved candidates more effective in work...
by Subramanian Padmanaban on Jan 25, 2007 10:06 PM Permalink
do not generalize your statement. May be your surrounding is like that. but in general it is not like that.
We all want that deprived class should be brought up so that they can compete and contribute shoulder to shoulder for the development of country..Unfortunately reservation is the only discovered tool (by politicians for obvious reasons). I suggest let reservation be there but top class and free education for deprived class from primary level should be the Govt. responsibilty. We have to generate self confidance among these classes. Finally we should aim for eliminating classes and make only one class, that is INDIAN or HUMAN.. But this will not suit to politicians...Sorry
RE:reservation
by Subramanian Padmanaban on Jan 24, 2007 06:30 PM Permalink
that is the problem. it is general category and not general caste. that is why government is not giving reservation on this.
RE:RE:reservation
by girish bhat on Jan 24, 2007 07:40 PM Permalink
u r fit to b in this UPA govt. u seem to know all. Also not surprising to see where u come from!
RE:RE:RE:reservation
by Subramanian Padmanaban on Jan 25, 2007 10:09 PM Permalink
sorry i am not worried about politics, but iam a victim of reservation and a person who has faught up in my life all the way. politicss is exactly opposite pole for me.
