i have studied in aligarh muslim university with indian muslims for many years and have a single pakistani fresher in my office in london and my immediate neighbour is a pakistani. Unless one stays in fool's world, one can feel the worst image of pakistanis among all nationalities in UK. After the pakistanis were found involved in 7/7 attacks, indians were particularly affected as people thought every indian was a paki. Many times, white people vacated seat next to me and sat on other seats in train.
That said, I found that pakis were more progressive and accommodating than I had imagined (by no means liberal though) - better on relative scale of expectations yet not normally civilized.
As for what the world thinks of muslims and islam, no surprises there, check out debate on BBC:
RE:what goes comes around - condolensces to all those affected
by rising star on Feb 21, 2007 06:25 AM Permalink
don't worry as soon as they come to know that the asian is hindu/sikh, people become very friendly. This is because indians are highly educated and give best results, check this out:
Whereas pakis are least educated and engaged in manual/labour occupations (most barbours are pakis e.g.).
In the entire world and UK, there is no racial abusing term based on a country's name except PAKI. A whole people of pakistan are looked down upon by being called a fuc**ing 'PAKI'.
ISI and by proxy the Islamic establishment in Pakistan, is a state within a state. It does not hesitate to go after its own (Pakistani) leaders/citizens when it sees that they are not working for the strategic goals of the Islamic Ummah. Since their defeat at the hands of a Kafir (Hindu/Sikh) Indian army in 1971, every ISI operation has been directed towards achieving a efficient Jihad worldwide with specific focus on Kafir India.
Initially, the US, like a ignorant fool supported the ISI hoping that it will be a pawn against Communist USSR. Later the Americans and the rest of the world realized the true nature of Islam and the blunder they commited by helping ISI become a monster.
The question of trusting ISI does not arise.
India trusting ISI is like Prithviraj Chauhan trusting Mohammad Ghori....AGAIN.
RE:RE:Good Pakis died
by Perv Sharma on Feb 21, 2007 02:25 PM Permalink
mistaken you are
There were so many hindus in the train visiting relatives and this is the reason for the blast and not that there were muslims on a large scale in the train. Jehadis are not foolish like Hindus.
RE:India should be a HIndu Country
by Rocky Kapoor on Feb 21, 2007 02:37 AM Permalink
great! I support you. In fact I like the idea of secular country and every one equal but when muslims do support pakistan openly, at this point I feel that the idea of MK Gandhi has failed.
RE:Origin of Terrorism
by Observer Observer on Feb 21, 2007 06:18 AM Permalink
We will listen to you, but only after you select a better name. You are disrespecting rediff and this discussion forum by using that filthy name of yours.
RE:Funny Part
by Vaibhav Pradhan on Feb 21, 2007 04:02 AM Permalink
Try to understand my friend. If RAW briefs ISI on this they can fine tune their strategy next time based on feedback of this time! Thats why our PM has instituted that joint mechanism to fight terror with PAK. Its like having victim and culprit on the jury.....BIG JOKE MAN.
1. Ban all religious extreamist groups and ban religious political parties from elections. 2. Take out PM post and make it President type rule where people will directly elect the president. 3. Ban regional parties from National election. We had enough from these laloos, yadavs with minority wote bank 4. Declare musharaf as a dectator not a elected president of pak. 5. Put musharaf in most wanted list for his role in kargil war. 6. Severe all ties with Pakistan util democratic elections take place. 7. Rename India with Bharat or Hindustan. ( nothing to do with religion. It is based on its glorious 5000 years of culuture and history). 8. Hunt and nab those who hijacked IA flight and dawood and memon who are responsible for bombay blasts. Go across borders like israel. 9. Go and get LTTE prabakar to indian court for killing exIndian PM. 10. Kick Bangladesh back so that it stops supporting terrorists in assam and other north east. 11. Give fitting reply to Bangla rifles for killing our BSF. 12. Make sure bangladesh knows its history and respect India and knows it place. 13. Take out 370 artical and declare J&K as another normal state. 14. Declare Loc as a International border. 15. Adopt common civil code and 16, Supress ruthlessly any religious terrorism like Gill & beanth singh did in punjab.
RE:leader with guts
by Polisetty Ravishankar on Feb 21, 2007 01:38 AM Permalink
Can i get your mail id? mine is sairavishankar_9@rediffmail.com ... i totally ..... i mean totally agree with you Dr. Ravishaankar
RE:leader with guts
by pratibha rao on Feb 21, 2007 04:24 AM Permalink
you are absolutely correct on those issues ,implementation of which is highly unlikely given the political scenario, which ultimately boils down to one thing nothing changes , one can only hope that things would change for the better, if not all atleast somethings.
RE:leader with guts
by prasad bw on Feb 21, 2007 02:38 AM Permalink
Raju, Well said,What ever you mentioned that would be fine,We need to eliminate local parties as well religious parties and most importent is Communists,these parties are playing major role in indian politics.We should fallow as like as american,they have only two parties .We need to implemnt unicode.Hence our country became one of most powerfull country in the world.We need president Abdul kalam,who is the right person to justice the position and should not allow amitabh as comming president.
RE:leader with guts
by atindra shukla on Feb 21, 2007 01:05 AM Permalink
Very well said. I would like to agree with each and every point you mentioned.
RE:RE:leader with guts
by Polisetty Ravishankar on Feb 21, 2007 01:55 AM Permalink
Hi atindra! my mail Id is - sairavishankar_9@rediffmail.com coming to India on 23rd and may be we can meet and act and not just talk. i really mean it..
RE:leader with guts
by kumar saurabh on Feb 21, 2007 01:19 AM Permalink
These are exactly the points a leader of a country should be focussing rather than busy saving his seat and coalition.
RE:RE:leader with guts
by kumar saurabh on Feb 21, 2007 01:56 AM Permalink
If this is RSS agenda then what is the agenda that is followed in pakistan where rules like blasphemy are there where non muslims are put to sword in the name of violating islam.May be u can do well to look in ur own house rather than throwing stones at other house.
RE:leader with guts
by Narayan Bharadwaj on Feb 21, 2007 03:37 AM Permalink
Boy - You should be the President of India or something. Free advice on the foreign policy of the country! How do you guys come out with such 'path-breaking' thoughts?
RE:RE:leader with guts
by Polisetty Ravishankar on Feb 21, 2007 04:32 AM Permalink
If such path breaking thought were not invoked by great leaders like Swami vivekananda, bhagath singh and others we would have still sulked in slavery dear Mr. Bharadwaj.
RE:RE:leader with guts
by lovely purohit on Feb 21, 2007 03:53 AM Permalink
India is officialy named Bharat already.. but alas nobody uses it.. as it was given to us by the england. Also .. all the points above stated are no easy to do .. it will create lot of condemnation as our is a democratic society. Not easy to run govt afterall. isnit?
How stupid?? That's what we can expect from Indian investigating team. If they cannot solve the case they easily blame Pak based militants. If Pak based militants were to be involved they would blow up train from pakistan that is coming back to india so that they can maximum indians. why would they blow-up this train to kill their own citizens?? what a cruel joke. It's just like the Malegaon case in which they blamed SIMI and pak militants killing their own muslim brother...what cruel joke...they don't even bother to raid RSS, VHP or shiv sena cells to see for the clue. This shows how indian govt can go as low as this to blame each and everything to pak based militants without any logic. It's well known fact that RSS/VHP/Shivsena/Bajrang dal are not happy with the ongoing peace process with india, but still Indian police is not even suspecting these organization if not raid on their cells. This 3rd time that the terrorist attach occured on muslim targets (delhi jama masjid, Malegaon, now this train) but still pak based militants have been blamed. What else u can expect when Indian police, intelligence is filled with Hindu fundamentalist sympathisers. God save India.
RE:how stupid
by mpncn mpn on Feb 21, 2007 06:17 PM Permalink
Hi Narmi, I do not agree with your points- Its not a new thing that muslims kills muslims themselves...they just dont care about who will be suffering from the terrorist activities like this...The terrosist leaders have agenda to do some thing against India , they just look at the targets...not at the consequences..whether it kills muslims or pakis or indians..they just dont care about it. Thats why we Indians ask the Muslims to stop any kind of support to Muslim terrorists.....so far they have mostly targeted Hindus only, so you muslims were not so bothered and now atleaset you should bother it since they have started targeting anything against this great country...irrespective whether it will kill Hindus or muslims or christians... So think and act now to stop terrorism..... stop injecting hatred towards kafirs in madrasas, stop injecting hardcore islamism into the young children and try to bring them up as an Indian rather than only Muslim---- think broader and above from the religion...or the kuran.... Take only teh good things from that book, forget the saying ' attack others or kill others if they do criticism of Islam '
RE:how stupid
by Om on Feb 21, 2007 01:00 AM Permalink
are u a fool? pak-based terrorist outfits have been killing kashmiri muslims for more than 15 years now. so don't give the bull that muslim terrorists won't kill fellow muslim bretheren.
as for this blast, pak-based terrorists can go to any extent as they are the lowest form of human beings. they will even kill their own to trigger suspicision and hatred in the minds ot their people towards another country.
RE:RE:how stupid
by narmi deys on Feb 21, 2007 01:42 AM Permalink
So, u guys are saying there are no RSS sympathisers in indian police & intelligence?? again this looks like big joke for me... When I can find so many people taking so much time for exclusive islam/muslim bashing in this forum, then obviously there must be at least 90% of the police & intelligence would be RSS sympathisers. I don't understand why guys are comaparing iraq/afghanistan to indian problems. iraq/afghanistan mess was created by US not by Indians or pakitanis. HOw can't even how stupid your arguments are?
RE:how stupid
by mpncn mpn on Feb 21, 2007 06:17 PM Permalink
Hi Narmi, I do not agree with your points- Its not a new thing that muslims kills muslims themselves...they just dont care about who will be suffering from the terrorist activities like this...The terrosist leaders have agenda to do some thing against India , they just look at the targets...not at the consequences..whether it kills muslims or pakis or indians..they just dont care about it. Thats why we Indians ask the Muslims to stop any kind of support to Muslim terrorists.....so far they have mostly targeted Hindus only, so you muslims were not so bothered and now atleaset you should bother it since they have started targeting anything against this great country...irrespective whether it will kill Hindus or muslims or christians... So think and act now to stop terrorism..... stop injecting hatred towards kafirs in madrasas, stop injecting hardcore islamism into the young children and try to bring them up as an Indian rather than only Muslim---- think broader and above from the religion...or the kuran.... Take only teh good things from that book, forget the saying ' attack others or kill others if they do criticism of Islam '
RE:how stupid
by sahi on Feb 21, 2007 01:28 AM Permalink
who do you think is killing iraqis in suicide bombing? There too muslims are killing muslims. It's written in quran that it is ok to kill muslims if it furthers the cause of islam. What world are you living in?
RE:how stupid
by ravi.k on Feb 21, 2007 01:09 AM Permalink
that is because intlgnce officers are not idiots like you !!! Hope your queries are solved !!!
RE:how stupid
by atindra shukla on Feb 21, 2007 01:01 AM Permalink
Pak militants have habit of killing their own citizens, dont get irritated. Is RSS/VHP going in Iraq, and Northern area of Pakistan to kill people? Dont make fool of yourself. Your country's nefarious designs are exposed.
RE:RE:how stupid
by mohammed shafeeq on Feb 21, 2007 01:25 AM Permalink
Rss VHP shivsena or Bajrang dal cant go Iraq because they are tigers only in india.That to because of the help of police, media and the government otherwise how do you think they would have subjugated the downtrodden from thousands of years.IF you think what they do in communal riots is not terrorism that shows the mentality and double standards of people .People or government should always think about the welfare of the country irrespective of religion or caste
RE:RE:RE:how stupid
by mohammed adil on Feb 21, 2007 01:42 AM Permalink
hey shafeeq, dont discuss any topic with these people. its a bunch of hindu jokers who feel happy after abusing the muslims.There are lots of Hindu who dont feel this way.So relax .These people are good leaders on paper.let them be.
RE:RE:RE:RE:how stupid
by atindra shukla on Feb 21, 2007 01:50 AM Permalink
We are no leaders, we are common man who are pained by years of terrorism and appeasement of particular community in the name of secularism.
RE:RE:RE:RE:how stupid
by navratan bafna on Feb 21, 2007 02:52 AM Permalink
dear frined behaving like gunda and doing something riots is different then planning and excecuting a bomb blast. all leaders in shiv sena, bajrang dal , VHP are more concern in politics than spreading hinduism. thats why these organization are just vocal rather than militants.
RE:RE:RE:how stupid
by atindra shukla on Feb 21, 2007 04:06 AM Permalink
They dont want to go anywhere. They are not involved in riots either. So your arguements are invalid. Try to clean up the mess of your homegrown terrorists first. If you are so keen to the welfare of country irrespective of caste and religion are you ready to common civil code?
RE:RE:RE:how stupid
by Razor on Feb 21, 2007 01:39 AM Permalink
Why dont you go to Iraq and take your other million odd no gooders with you? Please do that.
RE:how stupid
by kumar saurabh on Feb 21, 2007 03:44 AM Permalink
May be this guy can check out with the real facts around the world regarding muslims.U call any incident in the world where a terror act has taken place and not a muslim is involved !There is no denying the fact that rss/vhp/bajrang dal have been involved and part of many communal riots but never they been involved in any sabotage or terrorist acts against the state or citizens in general.I am sure this guy can check for himself the hard facts regarding the muslim society rather than blaming the indian intelligence officials.Its interesting that they don't seem to care as much when non muslims are put to sword but get agitated so quickly when their asses are put on burner.May be a bit of retrospection can help them to reform their society and bring them out of the lumbers of social evils like terrorism and stop sympathising with any muslim in any part of the globe just bcoj of his religion.
RE:RE:how stupid
by atindra shukla on Feb 21, 2007 01:25 AM Permalink
Dont challenge this guy otherwise he will tell 9/11 was work of RSS/VHP. He lives in fools' paradise on earth called Pakistan.
RE:how stupid
by Razor on Feb 21, 2007 01:37 AM Permalink
Dont they have good libraries or schools in Pakistan? Poor souls yaar, this explains why you find very few white collars from pakistan overseas. Most of them are Blue collared doing donkey jobs that require no brains ! Pakistan should ask UN for helping them set up some good educational/ Learning institutions so that fools like narmi deys or whatever he is called prevent making fool of themselves !!
RE:RE:how stupid
by narmi deys on Feb 21, 2007 01:47 AM Permalink
your saying this bcoz u have never spoken a pakistani or as a matter fact, I even doubt whether you have any good friendship (or even u have met any muslim in your life) with your own indian muslim. So, u cannot speak anything other than hate against muslims.
RE:RE:RE:how stupid
by rising star on Feb 21, 2007 02:25 AM Permalink
i have studied in aligarh muslim university with indian muslims for many years and have a single pakistani fresher in my office in london and my immediate neighbour is a pakistani. Unless one stays in fool's world, one can feel the worst image of pakistanis among all nationalities in UK. After the pakistanis were found involved in 7/7 attacks, indians were particularly affected as people thought every indian was a paki. Many times, white people vacated seat next to me and sat on other seats in train.
That said, I found that pakis were more progressive and accommodating than I had imagined (by no means liberal though) - better on relative scale of expectations yet not normally civilized though.
As for what the world thinks of muslims and islam, no surprises there, check this out:
RE:RE:RE:how stupid
by Razor on Feb 21, 2007 04:42 AM Permalink
You Pakistanis are always ill informed about happenings. The fact that you guys are alleging Indians of causing the blast itself tells it what quality of news and information is available in pakistan. As far as hate against Muslims is concerned, its only against dumb idiots like you and other Muslims whose only motto in life is to raise all teh hue and cry against non muslims. How many of you muslims have gone out and educated your fellow brothers about birth control and giving quality life to their kids? How many of you have asked your fellow brothers to have their daughters educated so they can stand on their feet? None !! If you are concerned about your fellow brothers, go and educate and work for their social upliftment rather than positing stupid comments like these. Rest all will fall into place. !!
RE:how stupid
by Guru HM on Feb 21, 2007 03:33 AM Permalink
Not really...U need to read some of spy stories...MI5/6, KGB double agents staged attacks against their own nationals to prove to their masters in opposite groups to build confidence in them...It could even be done by ISI. So that they can also place some of Indian..Hindu outfits under US sanctions....Makes sense...???
first of all my condolonces for the bereaved families.second of all terrorism helps no religion or nation.
ok lets face it together. both India and Pakistan has suffered a human tragedy now. pakistan has started feeling the same pain which India endured al these years. lets not blame each other. lets India use this opportunity to point to Pakistan the inhuman ness of terrorism in wat ever pretext.
im sure Pakistan general public are closer to reality now.
lets work together to stamp out the evil of religious terrorism.
if Pak misses the opportunity now, they will b self engulfed by the fire of mindless terrorism
RE:last chance
by atindra shukla on Feb 21, 2007 12:54 AM Permalink
I dont think we need idealism or pretend to be statesman. Pakistan based militants have done it deliberately this henious crime and their govt will not harm them even though. India has repeatedly urged Pak to dismantle terror camps, to handover terrorists and criminals wanted by India but they never shown any willingness. Same as mis-adventure of Kargil these blasts must be known to ISI and Pak army and if I am not mistaken to Musharraf also.
RE:RE:Is it back to mud slinging again?
by Samrat Bose on Feb 21, 2007 07:43 AM Permalink
Please try to understand what I meant by 'game' before responding...sometimes words are used outwith their usual meaning.
RE:RE:Is it back to mud slinging again?
by Samrat Bose on Feb 21, 2007 10:13 AM Permalink
Please try to understand what I meant by 'game' before responding...sometimes words are used outwith their usual meaning.
RE:Is it back to mud slinging again?
by Vaibhav Pradhan on Feb 21, 2007 01:27 AM Permalink
Game doesn't go on like this. India goes on loosing like this. This is happening for last 1000 years. When Indian so called intellectuals and secularists can say that Pakistan is a "victim" of terrorism then what can we say?
Act like US and this problem will be solved once and for all.....at least try. Not trying is crime failuer is not....
RE:RE:Is it back to mud slinging again?
by rebel on Feb 21, 2007 09:39 AM Permalink
Vaibhav you sound like George Bush, the biggest fool on earth. Your knowledge on world issues is dismal. Spare us these foolish thoughts of yours.
RE:RE:RE:Is it back to mud slinging again?
by Polisetty Ravishankar on Feb 21, 2007 04:37 AM Permalink
rebel! what r u rebelling on? lets start with simple questions on GK & IQ. OK?
RE:RE:Is it back to mud slinging again?
by Polisetty Ravishankar on Feb 21, 2007 04:26 AM Permalink
sorry for the correction ..... its not 1000 yrs ... its been 3000 years since when it was happenning this way and anyone and everyone who happenned to pass by India ruled it and killed our people and abused our mothers, sisters..... please mail me and we can actually plan to make things better and realize at least some of the points which our raju (above) has enlisted - sairavishankar_9@rediffmail.com
