Gawd, Indians are naive. ISI and by proxy the Islamic establishment in Pakistan, is a state within a state. It does not hesitate to go after its own (Pakistani) leaders/citizens when it sees that they are not working for the strategic goals of the Islamic Ummah. Since their defeat at the hands of a Kafir (Hindu/Sikh) Indian army in 1971, every ISI operation has been directed towards achieving a efficient Jihad worldwide with specific focus on Kafir India.
Initially, the US, like a ignorant fool supported the ISI hoping that it will be a pawn against Communist USSR. Later the Americans and the rest of the world realized the true nature of Islam and the blunder they commited by helping ISI become a monster.
The question of trusting ISI does not arise. India trusting ISI is like Prithviraj Chauhan trusting Mohammad Ghori....AGAIN.
RE:RE:trust??? Trust ISI
by Darshak Shah on Feb 21, 2007 04:00 AM Permalink
Ali: I apologize on behalf of those who just speak a different language everytime something wrong happens. You know that they are not like that otherwise. To Rishi, Hagu and others: we should learn one thing from muslim even if u call them pro paki or whatever. if there is a problem in any country with muslim they treat them as their brothers and what we do???? we can't treat an India as brother than what we expect from them??? I am an Indian and believe Hindu-Jain religion. Even when i went to one Hindu organization, they mentioned that Buddhism and Jainism were kinda attack on Hinduism??? I was totally shocked. Its in our mind that for now we want muslim to go away and than what?? it won't stop there bcs we never feel that v r one. Rather when u see in US they have accomodated everyone and respect it, i can say much better than what we do. I do extend my friendship and brotherhood to any Indian irrespective of their religion and country. Thats the way to progress. Vandemataram!!
RE:RE:RE:trust??? Trust ISI
by atindra shukla on Feb 21, 2007 04:54 AM Permalink
Can you specify which Hindu organisation has told you that Buddhism and Jainism are attack on Hinduism? dont fool people arround.
RE:RE:RE:RE:trust??? Trust ISI
by Darshak Shah on Feb 21, 2007 02:12 PM Permalink
First ask and wait for reply be4 saying 'don't fool ppl around'. it was said at one 'swadhyay' kendra.
RE:RE:RE:RE:trust??? Trust ISI
by animesh kumar on Feb 21, 2007 07:46 AM Permalink
Ashok the great was the first Buddhist to attack on Hindus. he replaced all the Vishnu temple idols by idols of Buddha and killed most of the protestors.
Now the communist historians argue that temple was a Buddhist tradition and hindus copied it.
Shukla jee, jaagiye. Hindus have been cheated by buddhists, jains, islams, greeks, huns, shaks, and all.
There is a Buddhist Ramayan which says that Rama and Sita had an incestuous relation. If that isn't an attack, what is?
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:trust??? Trust ISI
by atindra shukla on Feb 21, 2007 05:33 AM Permalink
I dont think Ashok has attacked any Hindu temple. By the way Bhagawan Buddh is a Hindu God and as per Bhagvat he is incarnation of lord vishnu so there is no difference in Buddhism and Hinduism other than some rituals and traditions. The people who are willing to create a rift between Hindus and Buddhs are propagating those Buddhist Ramayan etc, actually no ancient Buddhist ramayan exist. In Ancient time many Kings were following Buddhist philosophy of life and never attacked Hindu temples and vice versa. Dont expose your ignorance as a Hindutva.
RE:RE:RE:trust??? Trust ISI
by rising star on Feb 21, 2007 04:27 AM Permalink
your msg is nice but such feel-good approach only fools the real issues.
Did Hindu organizations ask you to convert? Now visit a muslim org and come back with results.
Such nice feelings and messages work in a rational environment but not with irrationals - look at your role model USA what they did in Iraq/Afghanistan - didn't they catch the bull by its horns. Are you apologising on US behalf also?
Yes, vandematram (and search one muslim that says so)
RE:RE:RE:RE:trust??? Trust ISI
by Rasna Arora on Feb 21, 2007 07:47 AM Permalink
:) one muslim who says vandemataran hmm...ever heard of the album 'Vandemataram' by A R Rahman? anger never cured hatred and anger actually blinds man from logical thinking... anyone willing to kill in the name of religion whether they be hindu/muslim/sikhs/christians or anything else - have lost any sense of logical reasoning or tolerance and lost the right to being looked at fairly. before being a good sikh/muslim/hindu etc I'd rather be a good human being and if religion has come to the point that it justifies 'driving out' a particular race or sect from 'your' or 'my' country-thank you very much But I'd much rather be an Atheist!
be reasonable and calm in time of turmoil and don't lose who you really are... at least not if you have a kind heart n a good soul...
RE:RE:RE:trust??? Trust ISI
by rishi on Feb 21, 2007 08:06 AM Permalink
Darshak: Jainism and Buddhism are as much a part of Hinduism as Shaiva or Shakta or Sikh are. If you are really a Jain then you should know this...we are one
RE:RE:RE:RE:trust??? Trust ISI
by Anand K N on Feb 21, 2007 12:32 PM Permalink
Atindra Shukla, I have read all your posts and congratulate you for being a staunch Hindu. But I am sorry to say that your knowledge on Ashok is incorrect. Buddhism as we know today is a benevolant religion. It was not the case during Ashoka's period. But for Adi Shankara, hinduism would have been in shambles. HE indeed revived hinduism in his short life. Coming to Budda as an avatar and Hindu God is a more recent addition. Hindu temples have been attacked by buddhists in the past. I agree in todays context we have to unite with the buddhists, jains and sikhs as these are Indic religions and offshoots of hinduism. But this does not change the history. Please dont get angry instead do some research on this topic. Inclusion of Buddha in the Vishnu avatars is the greatness of Hinduism. Look how we have monopolised on Shirdi Sai baba!
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by atindra shukla on Feb 21, 2007 08:14 AM Permalink
I think he is communist and hence more dangerous than even terrorists.
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by Rocky Kapoor on Feb 22, 2007 05:12 AM Permalink
Darshak bhai,
please understand. I deeply believe that Jain, Sikh & Buddhist are my brothers and We all are one. I can go to any place of worship of any of the above religion with my full faith and do not feel stranger. Now if one of the millions of jain (or few) tells me that they are not my brothers but enemies, I WILL NOT HOLD ALL JAINS AT FAULT. Some are fool, but still all other JAINS are my brothers. Do not let few fools break our unity.
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by Perv Sharma on Feb 21, 2007 04:33 AM Permalink
Very True But how many indian hindus know that Kashmiri hindus have been kicked out of kashmir and are refugees in a so called hindu majority country. How many hindus donate or try to help these hindus? None. Because hindus only worry about their own. If their neighbour's house is on fire they continue to sleep, if only their house start burning then they run around. Despite hinduism being oldest peaceful religion the hindus haven't learned to help their own brothers. It's time they learnt from Christainity and Islam.
RE:RE:RE:RE:trust??? Trust ISI
by Joel Satheesh on Feb 21, 2007 09:06 AM Permalink
So Perv Sharma's suggestion is to make the rest of India like Kashmir where we kill and bomb muslims. What a scholarly idea to develop India.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:trust??? Trust ISI
by Perv Sharma on Feb 21, 2007 01:04 PM Permalink
Joel you misunderstand your self. In kashmir nowdays the bombs are thrown only at Indian army against forceful occupation of Muslim Land. There are hardly any hindus behing that they need to kill any more.
RE:RE:RE:trust??? Trust ISI
by mehtaab khan on Feb 21, 2007 06:37 AM Permalink
kya baat boli tumne, dil khush kardiya apne, aap jaise achhce lagoon ki dono taraf bohut zaroorat hai
RE:RE:trust??? Trust ISI
by rishi on Feb 21, 2007 05:36 AM Permalink
ali... to the the ISI and the Jihadi establishment. You (inspite of being a Muslim) are a Kafir too.
You should read the speeches of Yahya Khan during the '71 war
RE:trust??? Trust ISI
by atindra shukla on Feb 21, 2007 10:30 AM Permalink
They bit dust (I mean snow) during kargil war too, their latest mis-adventure. Kargil war was joint venture of Pak army, ISI, and international terrorist organisations. They failed miserably. But ever since Mushrraf came to power in Pakistan all the terrorist attacks became more sophisticated and stratgically polished. which shows how much interaction is there between a Pak military genral and terrorists organisations.
RE:RE:trust??? Trust ISI
by Perv Sharma on Feb 21, 2007 06:54 AM Permalink
Sorry mate India didn't win kargil war please check the details. Indians begged America to ask pakistan to withdraw. A date was given by America (so called mediators) when they didn't withdraw India again begged America. Only then America put pressure on Pak to withdraw. Remember, Pak doesn't do any thing on its own its PAK America
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by atindra shukla on Feb 21, 2007 07:23 AM Permalink
Where are these facts available? Or you cooked yourself? Have you read a book of retired ISI agent or what?
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by Perv Sharma on Feb 21, 2007 06:28 PM Permalink
Please read Washington Accord signed by Paki PM. Washington forced PAki Pm to sign i.e withdraw the attackers from indian land.
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by Perv Sharma on Feb 21, 2007 06:25 PM Permalink
For your knowledge - please washington accord signed by pak pm in america on July 4. In the first place is kargil a part of india. if so, how come despite so much army the pakis managed to grab kargil. U acknowledge that attackers conquered kargil bunkers belonging to indian army. Where was indian army sleeping ( in your house). Did they drive the last attacker away. Please open your eyes read the facts. Indian politicians celebrated victory of what. How could 500 fighters caputure your land from one of the world's largest army. Don't be ashamed - it's not the first time - indian peace keeping force was kicked out of Sri Lanka by LTTE kids.
Just dig out newspapers of that period and a learned person like you will reach the conclusion. Or search the net for that period stories. If you find one story which says indian army or rather indian army papers saying they threw the attackers please email me on pervinder_s@yahoo.com. I would be very happy to receive them. I followed that war regularly. The indian prime was told that the attackers would withdraw within
RE:RE:trust??? Trust ISI
by Krishnendu Bhattacharyya on Feb 21, 2007 06:06 AM Permalink
Do you really believe that will solve every problem? After perishing all non-hindus will here be piece? How many hindus are with you? You then start finding the differences within hindus. If you are a bengali, you may not like a tamil. Being a brahmin you hate harijans. If you are rich - you fear the hungry poors. I am shocked, not only reading most of these messages. Who will kill the hatreds within yourselves?
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by Perv Sharma on Feb 21, 2007 09:56 AM Permalink
Krisnendu so the remaining hindus should become muslims because as per muslims only their religion preached peace etc. Then should u become Sunni or Shia. If you become Shia - a sunni will kill u - if u become sunni then shia will kill u. In hinduism atleast they don't kill irrespective of your so called caste.
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by Krishnendu Bhattacharyya on Feb 21, 2007 11:47 AM Permalink
Forget about shia-sunni-bengali-tamil-hindu-buddhisht, its only "us" and "they"!!! Ask your own self you will find lot of issues to make such differences. Finally, how many people select their religion? Most of them are born follower of any particular religion. Even they may not follow it as expected...
RE:RE:trust??? Trust ISI
by rishi on Feb 21, 2007 02:44 AM Permalink
hey paikhana H logical thoughts...by hey choose a cleaner id yaar.. (i understand bengali)
if u r a NRI contact me rishi_khujur@rediffmail.com
In the entire world and UK, there is no racial abusing term based on a country's name except PAKI. A whole people of pakistan are looked down upon by being called a fuc**ing 'PAKI'.
Indians, on the other hand have risen in esteem like neverbefore - the richest man of UK is an indian and indians are most educated people:
"The highest proportion of people with degrees or higher educational qualifications were in the .....Chinese and Indian groups...The lowest proportion of people with higher level qualifications were in the Bangladeshi and Pakistani groups"
RE:Better India is a Hindu India
by Perv Sharma on Feb 21, 2007 04:42 AM Permalink
Sorry buddy Please read Indian history because india was never peaceful even before 800 A.D.
Hindus fought amongst themselves, the kings of that time are known to have aligned themselves with outsiders - first around 323 B.C. Alexander the great was helped by a hindu king to fight King Porus and right upto muslim invasion it has continued. Even today it's the same story - around 3 lac plus Kashmiri hindus have been kicked out of kashmir by muslims but none of the hindus are there to help them cos it's not their other hindus problem.
RE:Better India is a Hindu India
by mehtaab khan on Feb 21, 2007 04:06 AM Permalink
rai paikhana hagu, tujhe paikhana nahin ata kya sandasa mein jo yahan akar gandigi nikal raha hai apne ass hole se.
RE:14% of India's population must not be alienated
by mpncn mpn on Feb 21, 2007 06:47 PM Permalink
Dear Singh,
We Indians or Hidus have never done anything at the fisrt to kill Muslims. You take any incidents where these two communities are involved.
We always preach and try to practise maximum tollerance towards muslim outrages against India as well as indians-Hindus-
But if muslims do consistant outrages, and activities which eveokes pride of Hindu or Indians we cant keep our hands in ass(what the so called f..ng secularists and vote band targeted politicians and the muslims want)
If u go back to old days...the hatred b/w these communities were not this much..as it is nowadays...because, the consistant abuse of Hindus and wastage of Indian tax collections by being spent for Muslims, the number of reservations, quotas, and support of political parties to muslims(with eye on teh votes only) have opened the eyes of each and every true Indians (Hindus)and thats y we are responding to it.
All over teh history, right from the times of kings...no Hindu king have ever tried to convert any muslim (including the Forcibly converted hindu converted muslims) to hindu....but u take any Muslim king who ruled this country...every body has used all their power to convert hindus to muslims and everybody has destryed temples or converted teh temples into mosques.
Tipu Sultan is being portraid as a freedom fighter....but the amount of destruction he did to teh culture and the temples and hindus...nobody knows other than my family.
My grand mother and father had told us the real stories ( not stories ...happened things) how Tipu has converted Hindus in Kerala during his military trip to this state from Mysore.
Who ever not ready to become muslim at the tip of sword were killed or raped and killed- All the temples which fell on their route were destroyed, or converted to mosques.
My grand father and Ma had to flee with my mum (child at that time) ..thank god ..The british attacked Mysore when Tipu was just nearing to our village...he had to go back to Mysore...and we were saved....
What my point is Islam can not tolerate anything...Islam dont teach ahimsa...and say to kill or destroy if any body talks against islam...and those who believe in many gods are considerd to be kafirs...what nuts...
Thats y Hiduism is great with much much tolerance and never ask any body to kill for nasty reasons...but mulims please do not test our patiency....If we out burst no bloody mullah be able to stop us....
we love peace, and we dont want to kil anybody, and we dont kill at the fisrt step...pls dont force us to take hard measures...
RE:14% of India's population must not be alienated
by atindra shukla on Feb 21, 2007 05:52 AM Permalink
Yes they must be pampered till they become 100% from 14%. They should be given special concessions, subsidies, special laws. Then only India will shine.
If we alienate and make 14% of our Muslim population as terrorists and call them 'pakistani' You can kiss your 'India shining' dreams goodbye.
Bunch of ignorant, pathetic, fanatical morons.
'Muslims kill Hindus therefore we need to kill them' 'Muslims are terrorists' 'Hindus will take revenge' 'Send them to Paki land' 'Ghazanvi attacked us, now its our turn to settle the score' ..... This is what you educated Indians have come to? This is what you have learned? And you call yourself progressive Indians?
RE:Making 14% of our population as 'terrorist'
by atindra shukla on Feb 21, 2007 05:58 AM Permalink
What is making them terrorists? Even after a separate country their thirst of blood is not ceased you want to advocate more concessions for them? You are fee to do it but I am sure not many will agree with you.
RE:Making 14% of our population as 'terrorist'
by rishi on Feb 21, 2007 03:32 AM Permalink
Singh ji: We prefer to be realist and progressive. Our progress (economic and social) will be of no avail if the physical manifestation of what we are is compromised by baser value systems like ISLAM.
You may want to visit Afghanistan, Takshshila, Dhaka and ofcourse Lyallpur :) to see for yourself what a disconnect between progress and pragmatism can lead to.
History has taught us that burying our head in sand (however progressive the sand is) does not protect us and our values.
You might want to read the Bhagavat Gita and study Sikh Gurus, Sri Guru Arjan Devji's and Teg Bahadurji's life to get a better understanding of what I am saying.
RE:Making 14% of our population as 'terrorist'
by Zubair Mehdi on Aug 26, 2007 12:37 AM Permalink
Muslims are peaceful people. You make your own mistake and provoke us knowing that muslims are the jihadi's and Jihad does not mean to fight with you it has lots of things and when we wake up with our faiths then no power on this earth will stop us except the one Bhrama up there. So, keep controlling your tongue and let us live with peace. We are peaceful people and do not like to fight but you people provoke us to do something which we never want to. HAVE YOU NOT NOTICED HOW BAD NARSHIMA RAO EATEN BY DOGS? It was curse of muslims on him. LEARN NOT TO LIVE LIKE NARSHIMA RAO OTHERWISE YOU WILL BE EATEN BY FEROTIOUS ANIMALS AFTER DEATH.
