In this hour of tragedy, death and mourning..let us all set aside our differences and beliefs and stand united.
Those killed were hindus and muslims and sikhs and indians and pakistanis and security personell and common passengers...but above all THEY WERE ALL HUMANS..SOMEONE'S SON, SOMEONE'S BROTHER, SOMEONE'S FATHER, SOMEONE'S MOTHER, SOMEONE'S CHILDREN, A DEAR FRIEND...
Lets not disrespect their deaths by getting into petite dog fights over nonsense..PLEASE!!
MAY GOD(BHAGWAN/ ALLAH/ CHRIST OR WHATEVER U CALL HIM) GIVE THE BEREAVED FAMILIES, STRENGHT TO GET OVER THIS TRAGEDY; OUR CONDOLENCES TO THE INJURED AND THE FAMILIES OF THOSE WHO DIED IN THIS UNFORTUNATE AND SENSELESS TRAGEDY...
RE:Lets show a united front...
by atindra shukla on Feb 20, 2007 07:04 AM Permalink
To whom you want to show that? Terrorists? They dont care, seriously!!!. They don care. They are going to target all with equality. What will united front achieve?
RE:RE:Lets show a united front...
by Historian on Feb 20, 2007 08:44 AM Permalink
No offence..but if someone in ur family died in a car accident...would you appreciate if people started taunting that ur father or cousin or uncle used to drive very rashly on roads and slagging ur family down instead???
All I trying to say is that it is a job of a few mindless individuals who misuse the religion. It is wrong to typecast them and slag every individual down for it..our politicians are the cause of death for millions of Indians every year because of their corrupt practices, many of them are hindus. Does it mean that you will slag urself down as well now???
RE:RE:RE:Lets show a united front...
by atindra shukla on Feb 20, 2007 10:06 AM Permalink
Wow you extra-interpreted my 3 lines message you should be with indian TV channels.
RE:RE:RE:Lets show a united front...
by deepak deshpande on Feb 20, 2007 09:18 AM Permalink
Dear Historian, You are blind to reality. It is not a few mindless individuals but well organised wide spread net work of terrorists, funded and encouraged by Paki govt , and inspired by the fanaticism ingrained in Koran that is causing the havoc not only in India but all over the world. Chechnya, Palestine, Indonesia, Spain, London and even Budhist Thailand have all suffering due to this Islamic ideology. Donot be naive.Read The Koran to understand the fanaticism in it. Even well educated Muslims are terrorists. Donot indulge in wishful thinking and turn blind eye to reality-- Deepak Deshpande
This incident makes it abundantly clear that nobody in Pakistan is in complete charge of the fundamentalists. However much I detest Musharaf, it seems illogical that he would have allowed this exactly while hectic back door diplomacy over Kashmir is going on. The implication from this is much more ghastly even in the optimistic scenario wherin there is a Musharaf-Manmohan accord on Kashmir. The terrorist attacks WILL continue even if Musharaf wants to stop them.
RE:Dogs of war
by atindra shukla on Feb 20, 2007 07:25 AM Permalink
This incident in no way harming Mushrraf or peace process which he brags about. This incident is to show whole world that Pakistan is also at receiving end in terms of terrorism and India has more terror groups than Pak to carry out such attacks. It seems Pak/Mushrraf are getting success in this game plan of getting international sympathy.
Many good meaning Hindus and Sikhs come here and seem to profess the humanist qualities in their attempt to search for reason for the unreasonable (case in point, the Jihadi).
Most acts of terrorism that continue beyond a generation or two (unlike Haiti, Ncaragua or other class struggle based violence) are guided by very strong ethnic or religious motivation.
The problem is when Pseudo-secularist people start with a premise that all acts of terror are indicative of a larger social deficiency, they totally overlook the strong influence of bigoted and ABSOLUTIST (thats the operative word) belief systems like Islam.
The result is that inspite of their good intentions (Like MK Gandhi's) to promote a humanist approach, good meaning Hindus/Sikhs you are the first victims of self delusion.
Fortunately, most ineffective pseudo secularists will not be of much damage, but people at leadership level like Gandhi and his type can lead a helpless population to absolute disasters (like the Hindus of Noakhali in sept 1946)
So get real and be a realist. (read the entire Quran). See for yourself what we all (including the poor Muslim) are dealing with.
AND IF YOU ARE A TRUE HUMANIST, HELP THE MUSLIMS COME OUT OF ISLAM.
RE:Islam and the self deluding humanists
by Vikas on Feb 20, 2007 08:07 AM Permalink
Its beyond point debating with such nut cases as yourself with half cooked knowldege and crap interpretations
RE:RE:Islam and the self deluding humanists
by rishi on Feb 20, 2007 08:21 AM Permalink
try it still..you will be surprised how cooked my knowledge is...better even do your own research...
RE:Islam and the self deluding humanists
by Common Man on Feb 20, 2007 10:47 AM Permalink
Thank you for the message. You have done your homework well. I myself have done some studies on Islam. I have read portions of Koran too. You are absolutely right.
Apart from absolutism, exclusivism of Islam is also another big problem. Either you are a devout Muslim or you are a Kafir. It treats people like binary values - true or false, nothing in between. Christianity is also to some extent exlcusivist. The path shown by Jesus is the ONLY right path!
The scriptures of almost all major religions - including Hinduism - are dogmatic and draconian in nature. Read Manu Smriti and you will feel ashamed of being a Hindu. The point is not whether a particular religion is liberal or otherwise. The point is whether the adherents of a particular religion can reinvent and reform their religion. The point is whether their society and culture can come out of the vice like grip of the religion and grow beyond that. That is the real test.
Both Hindus and Christians have reformed and grown beyond the narrow bounds - as defined in the scriptures - of their respective religions. Muslims need to repeat that thing. But the basic problem is that Islam, by definition, does not allow any change. It is immutable, unchangeable. Talk about change you become a Kafir - a heretic.
You have very correctly pointed out that the Muslims need to be saved from Islam.
RE:Islam and the self deluding humanists
by Zubair on Feb 20, 2007 08:28 AM Permalink
People like rishi, dont waste opportunity to inject their venom. Th etopic is blast/fire in the train, resulting many deaths & this fellow is taking his own course, with nothing on his head other than some ideas. Lets be practical & feel pain for those who died & try to stand together to fight such elements.
Any how....I know rishi cant be sit properly after having my views, now let me talk in his language..with apology from others. For Rishi Only. You seems to be a member of RSS or allies. I think RSS is behind the blast in the train, like they were in Godhra. They dont care to kill hindus even to spread hatred towards mulsim or even other religon. Like wise 9/11....USA blamed Osama for blast but still his name didnt appeared in FBI most wanted list for trade centre blast. It is RSS behind the blasts, they have learned from godhra fire in the train, there fore they have used the similar device this time, totally new for security agencies. This device was meant to spread fire, RSS & party knew this fact like any other people. Still it is not proved who was behind Godhra & iam sure it will never be proved for Samjhota express case too.
RE:RE:Islam and the self deluding humanists
by rishi on Feb 20, 2007 08:36 AM Permalink
Zubair Ahmed: Dont throw ur Quranic ideals on me and judge me using the hateful standards of Islam. take it easy.
RE:RE:RE:Islam and the self deluding humanists
by Zubair on Feb 20, 2007 09:06 AM Permalink
I will be wasting my time if i say something to you. As religon doesnt need your say/suggestion, it is complete in all regards & respect, however its up to people to read half, nothing or full & come out with their intelligent opinions. If you say, you dont require "hateful standards of islam", altough i dont agree with you t all but can you give the lovable standards of rishi?? am not asking the standards of other religon coz i know you also ignorant in that.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Islam and the self deluding humanists
by rishi on Feb 20, 2007 09:09 AM Permalink
Dear Zubair: Well..thats your choice my friend...go in peace...as a Muslim (pardon me if you are not one), you know very well what I am talking about.
RE:RE:RE:Islam and the self deluding humanists
by Ranga Krishnan on Feb 20, 2007 10:36 AM Permalink
Hello Zubir, You are absolutely wrong. Can you cite a few instances where Hidus are fighting among themselves in the name of religion? For a True Hindu, Nation first and Religion second. No Hindu will ever forced to die in the name of religion. It is highly idiotic if some one says he will die for the sack of religion. If one by one all die then where will be that religion? May be in text books and museum
Even after thousands of years of colonial rule and foreign invasion by Arabs and Christians Hinduism is intact and spared all over the world. I am sure that what was predicted by our ancestors are the story of the day. This century will lead lot of conflicts between Christians and Muslims, which is already open in many parts of the world and in some cases between Muslims and Muslims and by the end of the century only Two countries %u2013 India And China %u2013 Non Christian and Non Muslim-will remain as super power.
Don%u2019t talk about RSS or VHP. History speaks about Muslim Rulers. For the sack of power father killing son and son killing father and brother killing brother are quite common among the Muslim rulers. The poor kids of your Prophet Mohamed also not an exception.
Now in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Palatine, Indonesia and last but not the least J&K Bomb blasts are the daily news. Who are the perpetrators and who are the victims? All are Muslims.More number of Muslims died in Iraq and Afghanistan in Bomb blasts than by US bombings.
Who invaded Kwait and killed innocent Muslims? Who are victims of Iran and Iraq war? Who killed them? So Killing and dying is the history of the followers of Islam but not the followers of Hinduism.
RE:RE:RE:Islam and the self deluding humanists
by Neeraj Kumar on Feb 20, 2007 10:29 AM Permalink
I have FINAL SOLUTION to Terrorism. Convert All Indian Subcontinent Muslims to Hinduism (Who were once all Hindus) and there will no Terrorism, i write this word.
All the muslims should be checked while allowing them to board on trains or busses as we dont know where the snake is and this should be done until terrorism is minimized in india
RE:all muslims should be checked thouroughly
by atindra shukla on Feb 20, 2007 05:18 AM Permalink
To do this is highly communal in a (pseudo)secular country like us. Countries like USA and UK are doing it and USA is successful after 11/9 against these Jehadi elements.
RE:RE:all muslims should be checked thouroughly
by Rajiv on Feb 20, 2007 05:42 AM Permalink
let the Hindus die, we cannot hurt feelings of our Muslim brethern.Rather than thinking of terorism, we should concentrate on pardoning Mohd Afzal & think of ways of awarding him,maybe be Bharat Ratna
RE:RE:all muslims should be checked thouroughly
by raj thakur on Feb 20, 2007 07:56 AM Permalink
All these bloody politicians should be captured and put in tihar jail for rest of their lives..All old junk brains are responsible for these type of activities. Where are those intelligent brains who had worked hard and passed IAS exams?They are made to work under their ass.Lets this nation be once again be ruled by the British..and let true leaders like Bhagat singh emerge...
"Allah tero naam Ishwar Tero naam sab ko sammati de Bhagwan"................... Lets all be humans first,then Indians and then Hindu or Muslims a tragedy has befallen us instead of bemoaning and condemning this heinious act of terror we are fighting like insolent idiots,that is why terror wins and humanity looses we are all caught up in our cobwebs......all religion started to purge the grime prevelant in the day and today as self proclaimed spokesperson we are doing just the contradictory spreading the filth.........please abstain from it all religions are good and better still is the fact that we have a rational mind and lets put that to better use,in this world of the 21'st century lets put aside the talks of the stone age,as a hindu i condemn in the strongst of words the distardly acts of VHP,Bajrang Dal and i want my educated(in the rel sense of the word) Musilm friends to do the same against the Ulamah and the besotted Mullahs so that peace can rule the world and Humanity prevails in this beautiful nation of ours
RE:Come together in this hour of grief
by Rajiv on Feb 20, 2007 05:46 AM Permalink
dear frien,do u have any idea which religion is spreading terrorism thru'out the world & has words like "kill those who dont believe in our God"?B4 writing anything,just go & read that book.Any idea of what is "converting Darul-harab" to "Darul Islam" all about?
RE:RE:Come together in this hour of grief
by Vikas on Feb 20, 2007 05:55 AM Permalink
Hi Rajiv; Iam not as illiterate or ignorant as i might seem to be tell me has the policy "an eye for an eye" ever worked,look into the annals of the history and tell me,Lets talk about Haiti,Nicaragua,Palestine,Iraq,Afganistan,Salvador,Rawanda,Sri Lanka,Zimbabwe, secondly iam not opposed to strong and stern action against the terrorist hang them by all means but dont paint the non-guilty by the same brush just because u r a muslim doesn't mean u r a terrorist its that mindset iam opposed to,hope u understand and let peace reign otherwise through these venomous attacks we will distance the other community and make things more difficult for India as a whole
RE:RE:RE:RE:Come together in this hour of grief
by Vikas on Feb 20, 2007 06:31 AM Permalink
Rishi i might sound ignorant but u r too ignorant to ever espouse any sane thinking,Haiti Nicaragua,Equador were all creations of tension(economic and social in this case) and what we now know as Muslim fundamentalism has been fanned by the USA ,it created the Baath Party in the Iraq to countercheck Iran,what it did in Sudan is not hidden to anyone............In Afganistan after getting rid of the USSR it just deserted them left them to die in their without any infrastructure or support and handed the powers to fundamentalist so that they have a central organisation through which US can spread its propoganda So treading in your lines since the US Forgein polices have gaps lets call them all miscreants and Incinerate them??? Thankfully 'aware' & 'pseudo-intellectual' like u too have not much of a role to play otherwise God Help this Nation!!!!!
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Come together in this hour of grief
by rishi on Feb 20, 2007 07:58 AM Permalink
Baath Party was less relatively less Jihadist and more Arab Nationalism. Iran was the more Jihadist until 1992 when Saddam fell back on the time tested Quran to get popular support.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Come together in this hour of grief
by rishi on Feb 20, 2007 08:00 AM Permalink
the previous message was meant for Vikas and his pseudo secular ilk.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Come together in this hour of grief
by atindra shukla on Feb 20, 2007 07:09 AM Permalink
What about pre-Baath party fundamentalism? Dont exhibit ignorance by going deep in history.
RE:RE:Come together in this hour of grief
by Vikas on Feb 20, 2007 06:38 AM Permalink
I dont need any symapthy of anyone and i never thought that i commented on u saying anything about Muslims...........and what u r trying to communicate here is beyond my comprehension if some of ur best friends are muslim then u have double standards befriending jihadis or if they are good then what iam saying should have an element of truth in it right???
RE:RE:RE:Come together in this hour of grief
by on Feb 20, 2007 08:13 AM Permalink
I say, "There's a Terrorist in every soul." If you don't beleive me, then try to recall these lines when you start an argument with a stranger which turns into a brawl and then into a fight and ultimately you want to hit that person intending to cause hurt, pain or even death. "Anger is momentary madness." So tell me which of you is not mad, momentarily though?
RE:RE:Come together in this hour of grief
by Vikas on Feb 20, 2007 09:40 AM Permalink
Sir,Iam not stupid to condemn VHP to show sympathy to the deceased passengers please look into the real perspective which is we don't need such organisations to tell us what to do as a Hindu and what not to do and i expect the same from our Muslim Brethrens(Read the part about the Mullahs and Ulamahs) so that we can have a lasting peace and iam not pseduo secular or am being cynical.
RE:Come together in this hour of grief
by rishi on Feb 20, 2007 05:38 AM Permalink
try reading the Quran... u will stop singing allah tero naam and ishwar tero naam...and oly sing allah tero naam...
Quran is the problme man...if u really care about humanism, get rid of Islam ...Muslims will automatically become humans..
RE:RE:Come together in this hour of grief
by Vikas on Feb 20, 2007 05:49 AM Permalink
Rishi,I have read bits of it and i have read Manu Smriti too which abounds of misplaced faith iam a devout Hindu and i believe in our Argumentative history i belive in the upnishads/Gita and the sufi traditions lets refrain from attacking any religion, iam based out of India and i can tell u out of experience that true Democracy exists in India our democracy,relatively young in age is mature to have put the matters of caste,creed,religion,race aside, look at USA,France some of the oldest democracies tell me how many of the head of States have come from the minority??? today the three most important posts accorded by the Constitution is occupied by members of the minority( President,Prime Minister and Chief Justice) please be proud of the fact and lets continue in the same vein through these acts Terrorists are trying to divide us force us into being narrow minded,peverts lets reinforce our faith in Humanity and quell all the anti national forces as Hindus and more importantly as Indians we have always been broad minded why the confusion now???
RE:RE:RE:Come together in this hour of grief
by rishi on Feb 20, 2007 05:55 AM Permalink
Vikas: I reject the Manu Smriti (a Smriti is time bound unlike a Shruti like the Vedas which is eternal) and any Hindu scripture that you or any other person finds to be offensive...AND STILL REMAIN A DEVOUT HINDU.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Come together in this hour of grief
by atindra shukla on Feb 20, 2007 06:00 AM Permalink
Its highly impossible to find a muslim like that may be Salman Rushdie?
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Come together in this hour of grief
by Vikas on Feb 20, 2007 06:09 AM Permalink
Its beside the point who agrees to what portion and what he chooses to disagree to the point iam trying to moot is that religion is not deciding economies or feeding people or creating jobs or educating nations............instead by protesting in the manned we are it will only increase the chasm and prevent growth, i don't think u want an India where there's more of theis violence there is more of this apathy, tell me why did the khalistan movement weaken, because with the advent of Green Revolution (in the late 70's and esp in the mid 80's) and subsequent Education,Indutrialisation and opening of mammoth agro Industries Punjab could answer terrorism by Economic prowess lets do the same now and reap the benifits or bear the brunt
RE:RE:Come together in this hour of grief
by Abdul Haleem on Feb 20, 2007 07:03 AM Permalink
How can one say that the incident which took place was because of muslims. there might be some political party behind this. so stop pointing fingers towards muslims and islam. Islam has nothing to do with it. and people like u are useless who are always ready for blaming there fello citizens. I hope you understand english.
RE:RE:RE:Come together in this hour of grief
by Ranga Krishnan on Feb 20, 2007 10:43 AM Permalink
Hello Abdul, Daily Bomb blast in Iraq, Afganistan and Pakistan. Who is behind these blasts. Tell me who are the victims.
RE:RE:RE:Come together in this hour of grief
by Vikas on Feb 20, 2007 07:08 AM Permalink
I beg your pardon,Mr.Haleem i do understand english but what i fail to understand is what exactly are you objecting at when in the world did i say Islam is responsible???I hope u know ur english.........
The thing happened is very bad, I dont understand what do these people get....But i get one question in my mind if it had to happen then why did it happen in India and not in Pakistan??????
RE:RE:India and Pakistan
by Rajiv on Feb 20, 2007 05:49 AM Permalink
simple solution,put bombs in Pakistani trains,markets,hijack their planes,kidnap their children. That is what they have done in Chechnya 7 Kashmir.Give them same medicine,they will be at our feet.
After reading all the messages that are here in this post, I feel that intellect and a sense of responsibility is what missing from all of us. Have we all forgotten that we are not Hindus, muslims, primarily we are humans and need to think like humans. We dont have to blame each other for what a chunk of people have done, we need to figure out the solution. Does any one of you out here know that the culprits of these blasts are Hindus or Muslims, Indians or Pakistanis or belong to someother country or religion. We all have lost our minds and simply blaming each other on our assumptions and notions. If we talk about terrorists they are neither Pakistanis nor Indians. They are again humans just insane. We are the sane one lets find out a way to put an end to it and not fighting against each other and helping these insane people fulfilling their goals. Wake up people, this is what they want. One against another..............my heart cries when I hear that I am a Hindu, and the other guy is a muslim and not living beings.
RE:RE:INTELLECT - Hindus & Muslims
by pooja pathak on Feb 21, 2007 03:14 AM Permalink
Muslims or Hindus are not terrorists. They are all of us. And my dear freind, u may think that this is a nonsense, becoz u may not want to understand. I have not advocated Afzal, he should be punished for wht he did? Let me guess- u are the one who again wants to play the blame game. I never meant to say who has done it. Nth time there have been hindus who have done heinous act, but may be that will be alrite with you as you want to advocate them. I want to say that rather than blaming all the muslims, lets try to eradicate the root. And definitely they are not muslims or hindus.
RE:INTELLECT - Hindus & Muslims
by santosh Bhatta on Feb 20, 2007 07:41 AM Permalink
Govt of Pakistan should ask ISI and try to capture the culprits,pakistan Govt given the shelter of terrorist and now they will have to finish the terrorist,like govt of BANGLADESH now started to clear the terrorist camp and arresting the the group.so i feel that only Govt can change the situation none else,forget about the peace process general public/innocents pepoles are killing and next day forgetting everything.
RE:INTELLECT - Hindus & Muslims
by rishi on Feb 20, 2007 04:06 AM Permalink
Nice words Pooja... Wish the world was a honeymoon.
My heart bleeds with sadness to see good hearted but naive people who believe that burying their head in sand and praying "Ishwar allah ek hai...will solve all problems..
Your words reminds me of the Hindus of Noakhali (Bangladesh in Sept, 1946)..
Unfortuantely, 35,000 of them were forcibly converted to Islam (and married women raped and butchered) while they were trying to be "human beings".
I choose to be compassionate but learn from history at the same time.
RE:RE:INTELLECT - Hindus & Muslims
by Zubair on Feb 20, 2007 09:15 AM Permalink
And....and...wheel is turning back again...... Rishi went to 1946..... Iam goin further back, Aryans invaded india, blue eyed people...created cast system, occupied top places Brahmins, Schatriya & some of them become vaisha.....they have termed native indian as Shudra... It all started from there....do you want to learn mor eon the subject dear RISHI...crying about Noakhla 1946!!! 35000 people oh sorry, hindus. Dont you think what has hapend to Buddhists??? why the majority migrated from india despite gautambudha was an indian?? who forced the whole buddhist people to leave their country?? Do u have an account, how many of them were butchered here in india & by whom? Ofcourse, Not by So called JIHADI's.
RE:RE:RE:INTELLECT - Hindus & Muslims
by pooja pathak on Feb 21, 2007 05:47 AM Permalink
I agree with you Zubair. People have few examples to quote that muslims have done that but they forget what we have done. I am not supporting muslims for that matter but try to get to the root.
RE:RE:INTELLECT - Hindus & Muslims
by Rajiv on Feb 20, 2007 05:56 AM Permalink
Rishi,u r very communal,let the Hindus die,as they have,but lets not mince any word about Islamic terrorism.Forget Noakhali,Aligarh,partition.Dont forget that Noakhali happened becaust of Post Godhra riots.Cant understand? See,Akshardham & Jammu temple attack happened because of Post Godhra riots,otherwise Islamic militants were very secular. And yes partition happened because of ...Jinnah (lets overlook that Jinnah wa supported by entire Muslim community) And yes..partition happened because of Benaras Hindu University,use of word Hindu infuriated Muslim bretheren. Lets think of other expmanations also
RE:RE:RE:INTELLECT - Hindus & Muslims
by santhosh rai on Feb 20, 2007 06:09 AM Permalink
hi,
may be jinna was one of the poineers of partition, but i strongly feel he would have been a better PM for india than nehru who started the psudo secularism in a sadistcic way.
we thing we always are stronger than pak and we win eevry war. but in most of the cases we lost land.
It looks like followers of the Quran will not stop their propaganda even when such a sad terror act has happened which has killed and maimed dozens. (They keep coming under Hindu and Sikh names and try to cloud information exchange)
BBC as well has Pakistan's foreign office has put the blame squarely on Jihadi groups like lashkar-e-taiyyaba and Jaish-e Mohammed (both of which are copy-book followers of the Quran) and do not want General Musharraf to give in to India's and US pressure and control terrorism.
Unfortunately, the blindness of Jihad is such that they even dont hesitate to kill innocent Muslims for their cause. Its sad that Islam is so virulent that when they run out of Kafirs (Hindus and Sikhs) they start killing each other (Shias and Ahmedias).
After buthcering Sikhs (attention Mr R Singh), Sidhis and Hindu Bengalis after partition and Hindu Kashmiris in the 80's and 90's, jihadis are now busy killing anybody that come in their way of establishing absolute Ummah.
