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aurangazeb
by ananth nipani on Feb 16, 2007 02:20 PM  Permalink  | Hide replies

History is past. Let us bother about the present and the future. History is full of such anectodes. We only have to learn from them and not harbour illwill and hatred against other religions. For India to be united, we shall respect all other religions. Only they will respect our religion. Pl let us leave it at that. We have enough of such controversies.

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RE:aurangazeb
by lokesh mehta on Feb 16, 2007 02:40 PM  Permalink
Equally it is an opportunity to erase wrong doings of Auranzeb and other muslim empreors on this country

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That would be tough
by arindam mukherjee on Feb 16, 2007 02:19 PM  Permalink  | Hide replies

nicely written. thoughtful insights. but two things, if i may add...
an incredible number of indians, across religions are unaware, ignorant, indifferent to the past. whatever number are, are heavily influenced by shades of communalism. they see things the way a few people want them to see. the starting dates back to the era of jwaharlal nehru, maybe even past that. it is a humonguous task to ensure communicating the 'right' message, where the difference between right n wrong often lies within a huge grey area. david frawley's findings of the fact that the aryans never invaded us, they are of INDIAN STOCK only, who migrated to the rest of the world is true. this finding dated back to early 20th century, while we have been kept ignorant about it. india didnt have to 'fight' for its independence, it was a natural process following de-colonization, post world war II, guided by USA n UN, but we are deliberately taught the 'greatness' of our pre-independant leaders. there was a time when the nation needed an image to instill confidence in the mass, but it seems that that habit has become an obsession now. n obsessions, like SRK in the movie DARR is semi-permanent.

two, islam as a religion is founded on contempt for other monotheistic or polytheistic religions. with sufism, n contemporary institutions like IRF, headed by Dr Zakir Naik, there are stray instances of endeavors to mellow down the hardline element in it, but the fact of the matter is, the fundamental change agents or leaders of the religion still dont examine islam under modern light. to do so is another humonguous task, for obvious 'human' reason.

with two such mammoth task at hand, where illusions about past presently roadblocks a conducive future its a near impossible task to promote fellow feeling or 'indian'ness, as some people like to use the word.

rgds,

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RE:That would be tough
by tejas gangane on Feb 16, 2007 03:04 PM  Permalink
Mr. Arindam
"India didn't have to 'fight' for its independence.It was a natural process following de-colonization,post world war II,guided by USA n UN,but we are deliberately taught the 'greatness' of our pre-independant leaders"
These comments of yours show that You are not very clear about History of the country.Few of our pre-independence leaders were really great & weh had to indeed fight for our independence.If you might have read Churchill's impassioned plea not to losse India & Dicky Mountbatten's expressions of thought on India when he was Governor General of India you would have realised how much do they rued loosing Indian Colony.

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The truth about Aurangzeb
by Sameer N on Feb 16, 2007 02:19 PM  Permalink  | Hide replies

Dear freind,

Dont put fuel because India is already started burning in other issues and dont tyr to ignite. lets think about future than it will be helpful to our country and our Indian people.

BYE
Sameer-NRI (Hubli Karnatak)

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RE:The truth about Aurangzeb
by karthikeyan chitraipandain on Feb 16, 2007 02:45 PM  Permalink
Do y dont muslims forget the babri masjid demolition..they still remember it by observing it as a black day every year..why we have to forget the past deeds then

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RE:RE:The truth about Aurangzeb
by syed mian on Feb 16, 2007 03:17 PM  Permalink
What to say about celebration of VIJAY DIWAS on same day-? Indeed you shouldn't forget and carry on the flame.

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RE:RE:RE:The truth about Aurangzeb
by Shashi Shekhar on Feb 16, 2007 03:20 PM  Permalink
Coz we levelled the deeds of Aurangjeb on that day... Thats what Vijay Diwas means...

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RE:RE:The truth about Aurangzeb
by ayaz ahmad on Feb 16, 2007 03:16 PM  Permalink
Dear Friend karthikeyan
Its People who are the follower of ISLAM. There is not written any Islamic book or somewhere to do so.
Recently In Pakistan also mosuqe was demolished for development.Why I am quating Pakistan here that every time others people that muslim means Pakistan.
My Question to the Audiance
1--> What is the parameter to measure Patriotism.
Being a muslim makes u traitor.
May be the follower are wrong . But Islam is very beutiful. Only Few people thinks that I am the true Muslim By observing Black day and other protest.

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Kudos to rediff
by Live Life on Feb 16, 2007 02:18 PM  Permalink 

I appreciate the efforts of rediff.com to bring out the true history of India with such knowledgeable articles. Kudos to rediff and Francois gautier!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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History, Aurangzeb and modern India
by Suvro Chatterjee on Feb 16, 2007 02:18 PM  Permalink 

I'd like to make five points. 1)It is indeed a sad and shameful fact that Indian scholars do very little real research (William Dalrymple, author of 'The Last Mughal', has complained in the same vein). 2) Many scholars, chiefly leftists, have indeed distorted and whitewashed history according to current political convenience (long ago a great historian, Sir Jadunath Sarkar, pointed out much that was bad about Aurangzeb and his rule; later 'scholars' have done their best to ridicule and forget him, and make people forget. 3) As Gautier rightly says, it is by facing up to all that was BOTH good and bad about our history that we can hope to make a better future. 4) I am glad to see that so many other message writers want, above all, that communal peace should prevail in this tormented land. I could not agree more. But, while history should NEVER be used to spread hatred and strife, forgetting and corrupting history can never help to bring people closer. 5) My experience says that decent folks, whether they are Hindus or Muslims, do not spread communal violence; it is cruel and vulgar opportunists who do that, and it makes no difference whether they are educated in 'correct' history or not!

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Its all rubbish-A clear act of poring patrol in to the Hindu Muslim Unity in India
by irshad ahmed on Feb 16, 2007 02:15 PM  Permalink  | Hide replies

Its world known that India is the land of Unity and people here are united by hearts irrespective of caste and religion, but the people who dont want this are free to write what ever they want, e. g. this article.
If really they [the Moghals] were so cruel then why didnt they beheaded all hindus despite of being in the empire for more than 800 long years?
Who was there to stop them? like what is going on in gujrat these days.

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RE:Its all rubbish-A clear act of poring patrol in to the Hindu Muslim Unity in India
by arindam mukherjee on Feb 16, 2007 02:41 PM  Permalink
not required to bring in the element of gujrat or one single babri mosque in everything. other wise statisticians would jump on the number of assets destroyed across both sides - n that would be really really uncomfortable.

see, the chief reasons why forcible conversion of islam stopped in india are like this

during 9th & 10th century, muslim biz men across malabar coasts started coming n settling in the country. people got converted voluntarily during those days, because of social reasons & also becoz hinduism follows a series of confusing tributaries which is frustrating for a common man.

two, when babur finally settled, there were a lot of muslims already converted, so even though he showed some active interest, the passion died after his death. humayun was not very active either. finally akbar put an end to the forcible conversions.

the articles dont talk about all moghuls being cruel, it merely talks about the attrocities of ONE of them.

the point is not to close your eyes everytime someone criticizes; more so, if that somebody is a foreigner. the point is tryin to understand the undeerlying logic. we are supposed to be educated, tech savvy, remember?

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RE:Its all rubbish-A clear act of poring patrol in to the Hindu Muslim Unity in India
by chinnu raju on Feb 16, 2007 02:33 PM  Permalink
i dont know why people constantly abuse gujrat?? what is happening there now??i stay there & people appreciate the good progress.Why do you forget that once a riot begins, both sides are losers.. no one is winner.
Moreover, the reason behind riots were few aurangzebs of godhra

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RE:Its all rubbish-A clear act of poring patrol in to the Hindu Muslim Unity in India
by madan j on Feb 16, 2007 02:23 PM  Permalink
what abt godhra?

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RE:Its all rubbish-A clear act of poring patrol in to the Hindu Muslim Unity in India
by madan j on Feb 16, 2007 02:20 PM  Permalink
what do u mean? all hindus...? if the kill all the hindus thenm they will rule? what did u say like gujarath ? do u eman that alll musilms in gujarat has been murderd? dont u have brain? think once b4 saying some thing..........

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RE:Its all rubbish-A clear act of poring patrol in to the Hindu Muslim Unity in India
by srinivas kulkarni on Feb 16, 2007 02:27 PM  Permalink
You are not only ignorant but unwilling to face the truth. Modi is no saint but Aurangazeb was totally evil. Forget beheading Hindus, he went and imprisoned his father, killed his brother. If any person can do that then he must be totally evil.

Hindus were protected at that time because of one Great Man named Shivaji who was not only brave but he also was a kind hearted gentleman who respected all religions.

Not all Mughals were bad. Infact the majority were patriots. For example Bahadur Shah Zafar the last Mughal who lost his life fighting the British.
Equally great were Emperors like Akbar, Shah Jahan in whose reign India was known as the Golden Bird.

So my friend read your school history lessons before commenting.


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RE:Its all rubbish-A clear act of poring patrol in to the Hindu Muslim Unity in India
by Alokmay Behera on Feb 16, 2007 03:03 PM  Permalink
I have often read Indian muslims raising fingers at Gujarat incident. But have an introspection, what lead to such a genocide. Its all started from Godhra. Who started them?
No sane Indian supports the genocide. Dont you think Kashmiri muslims are facing even worse. Did you ever think about them? Stop raising fingers at Hindus becuase you know and everyone knows you are even worser than us. India is a nation of mullti-culture , multi-religion, multi-language. We are proud of our nation. You just imagine a country like Pakistan which boasts of being islamic cannot live peaceful with just one religion. There is always a bloody fight between Sunni and shia's. They dont even hesitate to destroy each other's masjids. DO you ever see such fights among Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Sikhs or ... in India? So stop crying over that incident over and over again.

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RE:Its all rubbish-A clear act of poring patrol in to the Hindu Muslim Unity in India
by Jarnail singh on Feb 16, 2007 02:38 PM  Permalink
irshad bhai dont cover up the mistakes of moghul rulers. if some of them were bad then their is no place of excuses. go by history not by your brilliant mind. the way you feel gujarat was bad same way we feel the 84 riots were too bad. then how we can justify the mistakes of aurangzeb. a true muslim cannot kill innocents. this is why guru nanak says "musalman mom dil hove, antar ki mal dil te dhove". you may not know darbar sahib amritsar golden temple ki neenv ek musalman fakir mian meer se rakhvayee gayi thi. but guru arjun dev ji who gave this honour to a muslim fakir was killed by jehaangir. it means sikh were not against muslim but against the fanatism. i appeal to you dont give a cover to mistakes. accept them only then we can go forward.

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Good Job
by Bharat on Feb 16, 2007 02:14 PM  Permalink 

Hi, Good job. keep it up.

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Auranzeb
by Vijaykumar Patil on Feb 16, 2007 02:14 PM  Permalink  | Hide replies

Only one King fought against Aurangzeb that was Great Shivaji Maharaj. I feel very Bad you people want Information tipu Sultan.Jyder Ali.But No People outside Maharashtra want information about Shivaji Maharaj.Please Read Books on Shivaji Maharaj and Repect him.


Jago Hindu

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For heaven's sake...
by Bharathi Masilamani on Feb 16, 2007 02:13 PM  Permalink  | Hide replies

guys..guys..for heaven's sake...we have sooo many other issues and other truly important history lessons that we need to learn and know about India. I am sure that this particular knowledge about a ruler's religious belief and deeds will do far more bad than good!!

I solemly hate when someone talks about attrocities of Muslims on Hindus or the vice versa. As many people have already commented, there are Hilters in every country, in every religiion in every walks of life!

If you talk about Aurangazeeb, what is your answer to the ruthless, senseless people who demolished Baber Mosque in Ayodhya, or what do think about Modi in Gujarat. These are as nasty rascals as Aurangazeeb or any body else.

All are filthy fundamentalist. Just like all religion preaching one God, there is only one evil in following any religion, and thats being a fundamentalist, extremist!

Indian history is fantastic, excellent and brilliant more than any other country perhaps. Plz, try make Indian's, the biggest secular nation, proud of our history, not divide the people with your filthy thoughts.

There is soo many things to think and learn about now. India needs to position itself as a global player in economic and political fronts. Plz think in those line and not in these petty issues.

All Indian's, irrespective of their religion, must be really really proud of our magnanimous history.

Jai Hind

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RE:For heaven's sake...
by Saurav Basu on Feb 16, 2007 03:13 PM  Permalink
How can you condone naming a religious place in the name of Babur, a barbarian in his own right.

And lady, dont mess around with history....Muslims destroyed 80,000 hindu temples in their 800 yrs rule....


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RE:For heaven's sake...
by Goutam Bhattacharjee on Feb 16, 2007 02:28 PM  Permalink
So, according to you, what is the most important task we Indians need to do now? What is the call of the hour? Tell us, we want to know.

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RE:For heaven's sake...
by vishal mishra on Feb 16, 2007 02:31 PM  Permalink
If u have people had any shame then u should had handed over ram janmabhoomi, krishna janmabhoomi and kashi vishwanath complex back to the hindus. but it was not done.
U people do not shed even a single tears for the 1000 of temple destroyed in BaNGLADESH AND PAKISTAN. Secularism doesn't mean minority appeasement.
Why kashmiri pandits were driven out of Kashmir just because they were hindus?
why Sabrtmati train burnt just because few Hindu were returning from pilgrimage?

Infact Sunni Islam has bred hatred all over the world and its main proponetn Dar ul uloom should be closed.

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RE:For heaven's sake...
by kartik deshpande on Feb 16, 2007 02:25 PM  Permalink
your point is well taken yet addressed by the author when he says,
"'OK, this is all true, Aurangzeb was indeed a monster, but why rake up the past, when we have tensions between Muslims and Hindus today?'

There are two reasons for this exhibition. The first is that no nation can move forward unless its children are taught to look squarely at their own history, the good and the bad, the evil and the pure. The French, for instance, have many dark periods in their history, more recently some of the deeds they did during colonisation in North Africa or how they collaborated with the Nazis during the Second World War and handed over French Jews who died in concentration camps (the French are only now coming to terms with it).

The argument that looking at one's history will pit a community against the other does not hold either: French Catholics and Protestants, who share a very similar religion, fought each other bitterly. Catholics brutally murdered thousands of Protestants in the 18th century; yet today they live peacefully next to each other. France fought three wars with Germany in the last 150 years, yet they are great friends today.

Let Hindus and Muslims then come to terms with what happened under Aurangzeb, because Muslims suffered as much as Hindus. It was not only Shah Jahan or Dara Shikoh who were murdered, but also the forefathers of today's Indian Muslims who have been converted at 90 per cent. Aurangzeb was the Hitler, the asura of medieval India."

we ahould be aware..


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RE:For heaven's sake...
by Sudhakar Rao on Feb 16, 2007 02:26 PM  Permalink
"magnanimous history"? How can the History (read above) be magnanimous and how can we be proud of it? It is MADE like that by 'Nehruvic historians'. Indian History was glorious until Muslims invaded us.

Dont be a 'Videshi manasaputrika', be a 'Bharathi'



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Aurangzeb, Islam and the two-penny Thapars!
by Jaganniwas Iyer on Feb 16, 2007 02:13 PM  Permalink  | Hide replies

Kudos once again to Francois Gautier for telling the truth about Aurangzeb, and indeed about ALL Muslim vandals who ruled this land for over 1,000 years. Romila Thapar's falutin' nonsense need not bother Hindus. The atrocities of Islam and the titanic war waged by the Hindu nation, especially Rana Pratap, Chhatrapati Shivaji and Guru Gobind Singh are part of Hindu consciousness for good. Moreover, we imbibe our history from indegenuous sources, unlike the Marxist feudal slaves like Romila Thapar, who know only English are thoroughly illiterate when it comes to Indian languages. This woman does not know a word of Sanskrit and she is touted as some'historian' by India's anti-Hindu media. She has been screaming and wailing for years, issuing 'certificates' to the likes of the Mahmud of Ghazni and Aurangzeb (not that they asked for them) and all her wails have not changed even an iota of Hindus' opinion of the Muslim terrorist rulers. So much for her Marxist propagandism, falsely eulogised as 'intellectualism.' As for Percival Spear, well, who the devil is he? Pamphleteers like him come dime a dozen, and vanish even more quickly. Gautier's apprehension is right when he says that the shadow of Aurangzeb seems to loom. We know who is responsible - the Nehru Dynasty and its acolytes, shorn of any self-respect or national pride. But let these anti-Hindu secularists keep one thing in mind - for every Aurangzeb, there will always be a Shivaji. Aurangzeb's mighty Mughal Empire breathed its last at the hands of a resurgent Hinduism, led by Shivaji, and the once-arrogant Sunni zealot who imagined he could convert Hindustan to Dar-ul-Islam lies buried in an obscure corner of Maharashtra, after he witnessed his empire being uprooted by the sweeping Maratha army. That is what we will do to the Aurangzebs of today and their eulogists.
Jaganniwas Iyer

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RE:Aurangzeb, Islam and the two-penny Thapars!
by prashant pendurkat on Feb 16, 2007 02:26 PM  Permalink
salute mr.iyer, ur amongst the few , who know the truth.Its just becoz of shivai,waheguru,raja ranjitsingh and tamil kings that we are hindus

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