I must tell Mr.Gautier that you are trying in vain. you are NOT going to win this war in India. Indians are a race who is bound to be slaves, in some form or other, till eternity. You cannot succeed in making them understand. Once upon a time, we Indians were civilized when the rest of the world was not. I guess so! Then people started invading us. For centuries, someone or other kept invading us physically and mentally. I think you get to say whay you say because you bare a foreign name. Otherwise you would have been branded. Maybe you already are! We all should have the courage of the little boy who shouted the King's naked. If history shows this is what Aurangzeb has done, it is a real shame that our so called authoritative historians have bluffed and lied to make a living. Doesnt matter whether it is past, present or future; the only rule should be that of Truth! If it was hidden we should appreciate when it comes out. If it is being hidden we should resist it. We should drive away all the fundamentalists, polititians and historians who lied!
RE:Sorry to say, but you may not Win!
by adfasd asdasd on Feb 16, 2007 04:59 PM Permalink
You are right my friend we will always be slaves. Slaves of our own imaginations and slaves of our past. I have a question, the forefathers that we are all talking about never new anything like an India or a Hindustan existed, until the mughals or the britishers came. India was defined by the mughals and then the British. They added to and became a part of the Indian culture.
No doubt they took their pound of flesh from us, but they also enriched and created this nation, which we are fighting for. If you do not believe it, then look around the country and you will see that most monuments and culture, educational system, roads, infrastructure etc are a legacy of these "Invaders". There is nothing to suggest that anything great existed before them, probably because we were all split into small, miniscule independent nations.
So Mr. Francois Gautier, i do not know which country and people you talk about, and frankly i do not think that you understand India or its History, or maybe you know it so well that you can manipulate it to your own benefit. Got the clue??? But yes you do understand Indians very well, like the britishers and other invaders, you do know our weaknesses. Divide and Rule is comin back....we have a blast from the past.
RE:Nice article
by Anis Khan on Feb 16, 2007 05:28 PM Permalink
YES GIVE HIM FRIEND WHATEVER YOU WANT, but FIRST CHECK THE FACTS. This is worst part of all Indians without knowing the facts just RUN
Dear friends, Please stop encouraging such arguements in the best interest of nation and citizens. Why should we always discuss something relating to past and fight among ourselves ? Instead of talking about Aurangzeb, we can discuss great Mughal emperor AKBAR who did a lot to this country as a ruler. Preach, teach and learn something positive that will go a long way making India stronger and powerful ! I suggest our citizens to first learn how to love fellow citizens and India. Contribute to the development, eradication of poverty, curbing corruption and racism ! These are more important things now for India ! Please love INDIA and love every citizen !
RE:Why all these now ?
by Govind Raj on Feb 16, 2007 04:41 PM Permalink
Mr. Gopi Nath, Why don't you preach to the Muslims too. Not your day to day people. They are as good or as bad as we the day-to-day Hindus.
But why not say, go to Kashmir and teach them Tolerance. Why not rehabilitate Kashmiri Pandits and give them back their lost Paradise?
If you have words of advice only for Hindus, then we are tired of them. We have grown up hearing them ever since we are born. All this tolerance stuff and secularism bluff is only for the Hindus. None of you Secular, Democratic, Liberal Intellectuals ever have any complaints about Muslim excesses and neither any words of advice.
Is anything wrong in preserving ones own religion ? can you please tell this to any minoritiy communities. I will give a small example :- We have a maid, Hindu by religion, who also works in Christian household in the neighbourhood. The first rule for her to work in this house is to remove her Sindhoor before entering the house. Please expalain me is this acceptable for any Hindu Women and as per you these are secularists (this is a small example).
Its just a remainder and eye opener how you will be treated once you become a minority in this country.
Did you speak to any Kashmiri Pandits ? Just find out, please explain me why they are living a second class lives in our own country in jhoppad Pathis in Delhi ? declaring shariat in Kashmir is a secular activity as per you.
Ask any of your friends and relatives who have worked abroad and how they have been treated by the so called secular minorities of India there.
RE:Why all these now ?
by Pankaj Choudhury on Feb 16, 2007 04:44 PM Permalink
Kudos for your positive attitude, Mr. Gopi Nath. But dear friend, do you really think we should stop discussing about negatives in the past? Are you oblivious of the fact that our politicians are capitalising on the reasoning that huge chunk of reservation (50% to 63%) should be made for some sections of people and all the benefits of society should go to them who were supposedly underpreveledged in the past? On this ground, they are making crevices in the society and crushing the so called well off in the past under their boots? And ironically, the same govt. is now going to introduce reservation for the progeny of Aurangjib who did all these injustice to the nation as a whole and the hindus in particular. If evils about past should not be discussed, our govt shall lift all sorts of reservation rigt now and treat everyone equally so that the divisions among people on the basis of religions, cast, language ang place are minimized. After that, if anyone really needs some sort of help, say a meritorious student cannot study due to poverty, then help should be provided irrespective of his/her religion, cast etc. Pankaj Datta Choudhury
RE:Why all these now ?
by Anis Khan on Feb 16, 2007 05:26 PM Permalink
I SALUTE YOU FRIEND. THIS IS THE BEST ATTITUDE Which will guide us to a UNITED And PROSPEROUS INDIA
RE:Why all these now ?
by rampant raider on Feb 16, 2007 04:21 PM Permalink
How do you presume that akbar was great? are you a student of history?.If not please read some serious history books(the ones used to write a disseration)
RE:RE:Why all these now ?
by sunil kumar sunil on Feb 16, 2007 05:07 PM Permalink
I wanted to added one more thing to this that day before yesterday i was watching KBC and with that i come to know that tansen was a hindu ( some.. mishra) and under akbar he was converted. I dont know what is the reason of converting.
RE:RE:RE:Why all these now ?
by Anis Khan on Feb 16, 2007 05:24 PM Permalink
YOU WILL NOT GET THE ANSWER, since TANSEN IS NO MORE and our historians are manipulaters of facts. SO LETS TOGETHER ASK TANSEN when we will meet after our death.
RE:RE:Why all these now ?
by Anis Khan on Feb 16, 2007 05:22 PM Permalink
My DEAR freind, TELL ONE SINGLE MAN WHO WAS GREAT, few say them great and few who didn't like them abuse them. EVEN the GREAT LEGEND OF INDIA "MAHATMA GANDHI" being abused.
RE:Why all these now ?
by Suresh GO on Feb 16, 2007 04:21 PM Permalink
the problem, sir, is that you cannot start on a clean slate on a fine morning when you feel like! Human beings live in society and all what happened and all what is happening will matter. It will continue to matter and help shape up the future. No escaping that, no matter you want to or not.
RE:Why all these now ?
by sunil kumar sunil on Feb 16, 2007 05:02 PM Permalink
That is what. Both side should understand that we are citizen of india. Nothing is bigger than motherland. There should not be any problem in singing national songs and rising unnecessary issue after 50 years of independence.
RE:Why all these now ?
by Nitin Jog on Feb 16, 2007 04:50 PM Permalink
Why did the marxist write wrong and twisted history in the first place? Why did they not put facts as they were? Now when the marxist is to be proved wrong, why take recource to sermons about more important issues? When the marxist was actively distorting history, were there no more important issues? Why didnt these marxists simply put history as it was, as it would have taken least time without having to fabricate historical evidences? Thus the damage that the marxist has done must be undone. We must be clear about our past, so that we can think clearly of our today and make the tomorrow brighter. There is no reason to be shy or reluctunt in saying that either our eminent leaders of past years or our eminent historians of today have been seriously at fault while presenting our past to us. Let us clear this dirt and trash of history and its authors from amongst us and start with a new clean slate for the better tomorrow. Nitin S Jog, NAGPUR
Excellent piece of research by Francois Gautier. We being Indians (Hindus and Muslims) are not allowed to be open or vocal or impassionate on important discussions on history. We will be branded "fundamentalists" by our politicians, particularsly the Congress.
Atleast we can thank Mr.Gautier for showing us our own mirror to judge our history, and learn from the follies of the moghul rulers.
RE:AURANGZEB - a tyrant?
by Anis Khan on Feb 16, 2007 05:17 PM Permalink
WHAT RESEARCH YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, GAUTIER IS DOING THE SAME AS Many Politicians are doing "DIVIDE and RULE". Tell him to debate with us and prove the things. He will not be able too.TELL HIM TO SEE HIS FACE IN MIRRORS I will not say it is all lies but as earlier historians did he is also manipulATING THINGS JUST FOR HIS PRAISE AND PROSPERITY. WHAT WILL YOU LEARN MY FRIEND ALREADY OUR POLITICIANS HAS LEARNT FROM THE BRITISHERS "DIVIDE AND RULE" they are already doing it and are successful.
I was once a fan of Francois Gautier's writing and much of what he wrote made a lot of sense to me such as the downright dishonest rendering of Indian history by Marxist historians which has been much more scholarly argued by Arun Shourie. Over the years however, I was convinced that he was biased, echoed many of the sentiments of some of the most hardcore of the saffron brigade and put forth arguments which were so anti-islam that they sometimes almost resembled the jargon of fundamentalists he has so vociferously set out to oppose. Even though I think his arguments are not completely rational, methods not completely scientific, I have immense respect for his courage in appropriating the cause of the Indian nation (being originally a French national) and giving everything for it. One thing I must mention is that everytime I dismiss his writing, he comes up with some unputdownable arguments. I think this once he is S.P.O.T O.N.
The fanatic articles like this serve no purpose to the history of India which is already been defaced by most communal historians in the part. I have serious reservations on the knowledge on Francois Gautier who might claim to be a student of histroy but unfortunately he bears very little knowledge about the very truth that Mughal Empire particularly reign of Aurangzeb Alamgir gave India the strength and identity which laid the foundation of India being a real power. This foundation resulted in later movements towards the independence struggle of India. Articles like this expose the very truth that heart of several people are filled with hatred and they want to write just anything with the feeling that nobody would come forward to challenge them. I invite Francois to debate with me on the role and significance of reign of Aurangzeb Alamgir. Please stop spreading wrong information if you do not possess authentic knowledge.
RE:Aurangzeb
by Krishna V on Feb 16, 2007 04:27 PM Permalink
I just want to clarify one thing with you before we discuss events in history. You would agree with me that Indian muslims are muslims because of forceful conversions by Muslim invaders. The very fact that your then forefathers had been forcibly converted and the religion forcibly imposed has been carried till now, don't you feel a sense of pity or anger that your religion is not what your then forefathers would have preferred? Being tolerant and non un-secure by nature and by fundamentals of hinduism, i donot prefer you to become a hindu, but don't you feel you have been cheated. Any person with reasonable intelligence, pride and dignity would feel cheated on this pretext. I will sincerely appreciate if you enlighten me with your acumen on this point and solely on this point.
RE:RE:RE:Aurangzeb
by Shaheer A. Mirza on Feb 16, 2007 06:37 PM Permalink
I went through all the responses above and expect some more, all I can make out basically is the reaction and ill-knowledged logic that Aurangzeb built mosques on sites of Hindu Temples. With due respect to Hinduism, all I wanted to say is that for a better society and a safe environment, we need to possss reasonable knowledge of the land we live in. India has witnessed many invaders coming in from Trans Indus Valley and with them they brought their own culture, values, traditions, language and ways of life. In case of Aurangzeb, it is to be noticed that the empire was already settled in India for more than a century and almost 4 generations of common person had already passed under the influence of Mughals. Therefore, it was Hindus and followers of other religions at that time who were inclined towards practices and benefits of Islam for their own personal interests and profits. Islam has always been against the interference of religious values in terms of ruling the state. Had the motive of Muslim rulers were to spread Islam, I'm afraid to say but there would hardly be any non-muslim left to raise voice if they were harrassed or forced to conversion. Its only modern historians who have portrayed such a picture of Islam under the influence of extremism within the anti-Islamic fraternity. I have all the respect for religion of Hinduism but I feel sorry for those who have filled their hearts with hatred just to cover the lapses their own history reveals. Religion is a matter of faith and belief and in case somebody is interested to prove the logics then there would many issues that would arise and might hurt emotions of millions. It is scientifically proved that human life on earth is not older than 8000-10000 years old and here we refer to Gods that exist 5 million years ago, then why to fight on temples of such Gods whose existence itself is questionable. I do not want to refrain from the core subject and the fact remains that so-called authors like Francois do no favour to contribute to history but just re-write some stupid stuff which works like refreshing the sleeping hatred within the society. It is unfortunate to highlight but equally important that immediately after the independence, the most extremist lobbies both from Hindu & Muslim communities were keen to encash their political premiums rather than strengthening the country and that is how the divide among the society got stronger, this step gave energy to fundamentalists of both sides to play with the emotions of people on religious lines for their political destiny. Someone in the above response has adviced me to migrate to Pakistan, may I ask the gentleman what prompted him to say so ? I would like to reiterate that India is a homeland to me and millions of Muslims like me and rather I demand endorsement from all such people that what make them feel that India is only for Hindus. If we want to shape our country today and wish to see it developing, then we should raise our mentality and talk business. The only thing that stops me from indulging into meaningless arguments about stories of mosques raised on temple sites is the future of India. We should remember that India as a country has some history but the story within that history is primarily fiction as far as faith goes and fiction has no base, its all game of belief. I am sure world would laugh if we stick to the very fundamentalist approach about all those silly things referring to Gods living in stones. Then there is somebody who sounds furious and talked about blasts in Bombay as a revenge to one mosque demolished. I categorically condemn such acts if the blasts were a result of Babri Masjid but the question remains, how long will it go ? If we talk about accusations and counters then we are still living in some age that would not lead us to better tomorrow. My sincere appeal to all those who are against my writings is to apply logic to their thoughts and make sure that co-existence is the only possible tool to survive today.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Aurangzeb
by Anil Hingorani on Feb 23, 2007 05:49 PM Permalink
Shaheer, you seem to be a profound thinker but it is not convincing the islam was not spread by force. There are various accounts and feats of kings like Shivaji and religious personalities who helped hindutva survive moghul conversion efforts. On historians and media, the popular and prominent ones are with you. Read all popular magazines, news papers - the bigger these are the more minority appeasing mode they are in. However, my question remains unanswered i.e. how come people who were forcibly converted generations back do not feel cheated?
RE:RE:Aurangzeb
by Anis Khan on Feb 16, 2007 05:03 PM Permalink
DOES this site being authenticated by Government of India? does the documents published there being endorsed and certified by concerned authorities of Government of India. I want to ask "wikipedia.org" Are YOU PEOPLE INTERESTED IN FIRING ONE MORE COMMUNAL rights. do you people are only interested in dividing INDIANS. AND HAVE YOU PEOPLE APPOINTED Mr. Francois Gautier as YOUR AMBASSADOR FOR COMMUNAL RIGHTS.
RE:RE:Aurangzeb
by Raees Mohammed on Feb 16, 2007 04:36 PM Permalink
any one can write anything in wikipedia. And Francois Gautier claim is false and dont have any truth and proof. And As always rediff is publishing this. I know rediff is anti muslim.
RE:RE:RE:Aurangzeb
by Jarnail singh on Feb 16, 2007 05:58 PM Permalink
i have great regard for islam and muhammad sahabs teachings. but you people are defending a wrong person. these rediff people might come to know about these facts now as a sikh i know these from my childhood. even then i am not against islam. aurangzeb is not islam, he was not true muslim. dont defend him. by defending him you will loose your own credibility.
RE:Aurangzeb
by bharat on Feb 16, 2007 04:12 PM Permalink
Mr. Shaheer Mirza, Instead of summarily dismissing the article as fanatic, why don't you present logical arguments to substantiate your claims. The article is based on logical reasoning. Do you have any backup to prove your point?
RE:RE:Aurangzeb
by Anis Khan on Feb 16, 2007 04:57 PM Permalink
logical reason cant be true, when history is being manipulated as many of our friends are saying, then how can the reason being given be true. Mr. Francois Gautier if you are really historian I want an ARTICLE about the BRITISH RULE and give some authentic detials of the worse RULER of INDIA the BRITISHERS
RE:Aurangzeb
by Ganapathy E on Feb 16, 2007 04:23 PM Permalink
Shaheer dont bluff go and see the historical town Hampi in Andhra pradesh,u can see nimbers of monuments and hindu temples destroyed by the muslim emperror,but u ppl killed so many countrymen in bombay for destroying one single mosque.Shame on u
RE:RE:Aurangzeb
by Anis Khan on Feb 16, 2007 04:46 PM Permalink
Dear Friend, Atleast Muslim Rulers didn't took the things belonged to the Indians. There were many rulers who did either right or wrong to rule the Country. Can any historian prove me that any Muslim Ruler took anything from India and went away just like the British. Have the historian forgotten the bad to worse deeds done by the Britisher, does they not forcibily convereted hindus to Christianity. Why YOU all people just against muslim, what are the naxalities ding, are they not killing people & what about moawwadies ?. There are many type of people does the deed of few people should be imposed on all the Muslims, is it right what the othere Muslims has done all are not same. Plz. plz. stop all this, we are Indians and just Indians.
RE:RE:Aurangzeb
by Anis Khan on Feb 16, 2007 05:09 PM Permalink
DOES THIS ANYTHING RELATED TO PRESENT MUSLIMS, does present muslims destroying any MANDIRS, does anything MONUMENTS of HINDUS being destroyed by present Muslims. HISTORY IS BEING MANIPULATED why we are fighting when the REAL FACTS ARE NOT PRESENT.
RE:RE:Aurangzeb
by b karthik on Feb 16, 2007 04:26 PM Permalink
Don"t you have any shame teasing a religion .what do you know about religion.you want to get rid of them because some 100 years back they kiled people.why are you blaming the muslims of this generation.if someone teases your religion what will you do ?
RE:RE:RE:Aurangzeb
by Anis Khan on Feb 16, 2007 04:52 PM Permalink
Thanks Karthik, Some 100 Years before it were Christian /Britishers who were ruling India, and as I know, they not done anything good to us, does the Britishers gave anything to us , they were RUDE BUSINESSMEN WHO just looted us and went away, why such Articles not comimg about them, why everyone is targetting only MUSLIMS. I AM FIRST INDIAN and then MUSLIM.
RE:AURANGAZEB WAS A SIMPLE,PEACELOVING
by bharat on Feb 16, 2007 04:18 PM Permalink
Why are the Indian muslims getting so agitated by this article. This article exposes the character of Aurangzeb's rule. Aurangzeb was a Moghul. The Indian muslims are not moghul decendants. There is nothing common between them except for the religion. Have you noticed that the article critizes Aurangzeb and his style of rule and the atrocities he committed. It does not criticize Islam. Why are you looking at it as a communal issue at all.
RE:AURANGAZEB WAS A SIMPLE,PEACELOVING
by Dr. Vinay Gupta on Feb 16, 2007 04:12 PM Permalink
GREAT INDIAN KING????? Dear would you still call him great had he chopped head of your religious leader or boiled him in Teg; or raped your mother or destroyed your mosques? NO Don't see things with colored specs some day you may be on sufferer side and then I will see if you say same thing.
RE:AURANGAZEB WAS A SIMPLE,PEACELOVING
by vishal kundnani on Feb 16, 2007 04:06 PM Permalink
Yes, The scriptures are meant for all the people of all the times. You just go to any arab country and see arab men wearing White robes and women Black burqas in such sweltering heat. Either you people don;t know about science or you don't believe in equality. What's your say on that?
RE:AURANGAZEB WAS A SIMPLE,PEACELOVING
by ravi chakravarthi on Feb 16, 2007 04:15 PM Permalink
What a joke . Whole world knows what a cruel fellow he was .. Shame on those who support him..
RE:RE:AURANGAZEB WAS A SIMPLE,PEACELOVING
by mohd amul on Feb 16, 2007 04:40 PM Permalink
why dont u understand guys, what this stupid has to tell abour our history. Westerner favourite policy divide and rule, kabhie na bhool. under no circumstance under moghul rule they looked down upon hindu community, from military to everything they participated. These people always mix facts with fiction to make it real. We know our history better than anybody. Kashmir pudits they have to say that, thats the essense to generate hatred. Total no. of muslim died in kashmir is over 400k now. Male to female rato in kashmir is in 70s. Muslim have lost business everything, unfortunately blame doesnt go. In every religion the power comes, now power is really coming to Jews and Hindus. Jews are misusing it and unfortunately hindus are going astray with hindu fanatics. The whole islam world has crumbled because of muslim fanatics and now hindu are going. It means there is destruction ahead. we have to live peacefully. kashmir people have to treated with compassion, otherwise things will come back to everyone of us. Dont mention those kashmiri brahmins, everyone know what happend. If we are so fond of outsider comment then why should we hesitate to involve UN. Unless we donot concentrate on our Big problems, we can never live in peace
RE:RE:RE:AURANGAZEB WAS A SIMPLE,PEACELOVING
by rajesh menon on Feb 16, 2007 05:50 PM Permalink
its the people like u who r creating this kind of trouble.you dont have any right to comment on any other religion because u dont have any respect and tolerance to other religion except urs.
Once again I ask - What is the root cause of Muslim aggressiveness? Our Congress and Communist parties will say: "Oh you know, its just a few misguided muslims. Otherwise, ISlam is a very peaceful religion". Congress knows more of the Quran and Islam than the people who read and practise Islam all over the world. Congress knows Quran better than all of Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan. Who are the ones who do not know what the Quran is? You and I who do not bash Hinduism and of course the terrorists. Terrorists don't know the Quran because they carry the Quran with them always and keep reading it. But Congress knows.
"Oh not all Muslims are terrorists!" - our psedo-secs will cry out. Yeah I know that - but then, almost all terrorists are Muslims.
The root cause is in the Quran. Muslim aggressiveness has its origin in the Quran and other 'holy' works. Muslims will not disagree with me, but the Congress will.
Centuries of Muslims, following their religion, have invaded and plundered. They co-exist only when there is no other option. Even today, the world has serious problems because of Muslims. The root cause is in their "holy" works.
In any conflict, honestly sit down and recollect who starts it all? Forgot the Godhra train? Forgot the Mumbai train blasts? Forgot the '93 blasts? Forgot the professor who lost his life in IISc Bangalore?
Can all this be done without local Muslim support? Are all terrorists imported from Pak?
Generations after generations, read the Quran, listen to instigating speeches, learn to hate other religions and come to kill. Or at least support the murders silently / monetarily.
Remember: Hindus can live peacefully with Muslims. Our scriptures do not taboo peaceful co-existence. But a true muslim cannot and is not supposed to. The root cause is in the Quran!
RE:Once again - Whats the root cause?
by mohd amul on Feb 16, 2007 04:44 PM Permalink
do you know in last 2 centuries christians have killed 25 millions of people. There was no destruction at this scale anywhere in history of human kind. If muslim power could it could have done much worse, most of the ruler have accomodated every body irrespective of race, caste, colour. these problems were there even 20yrs back.
RE:RE:Once again - Whats the root cause?
by Jarnail singh on Feb 16, 2007 05:53 PM Permalink
mohd please understand whoever is a true follower of religion can not kill any innocent. the killers were not true hindu, true muslim or true christians. these people on name of religion fulfill their on greed.
RE:Once again - Whats the root cause?
by aqueel khan on Feb 16, 2007 04:28 PM Permalink
My Dear Friend, MR. Bush is the biggest terrorist in the face of the earth, is he a Muslim?
Hitler killed millions of people, was he a Muslim?
Mr Anand, if you dont know anything please do not speak about that.
In HOLY QURAN it is written that 'If someone kills an innosent person, it is equivalent of killing the whole humanity'.
I strongly object the words you used against our HOLY QURAN.
RE:RE:Once again - Whats the root cause?
by Abhijit Nimkar on Feb 16, 2007 04:48 PM Permalink
but rather than we reading a Quran, shouldnt it be read by ppl like Osama & his growing no. of followers???? They read it more than anybody else but are still not able to understand what it means.... & still many consider Osama as a hero??? But Muslims dont seem to bother about the fact that ppl like Osama are bringing thir religion to disrepute. Shouldnt he be then ousted from Islam??
RE:RE:Once again - Whats the root cause?
by CR Anand on Feb 16, 2007 04:58 PM Permalink
http://www.islamvision.org/Jihad.asp:
Fighting is permitted against those who resist the peaceful propagation of the religion of truth. Fighting is not allowed against those who are inclined for peace. No cheating is allowed even during the war. The aged people, women, children, hermits, monks, wounded and all other innocent people should not be harmed in any manner during the war.
- OH HOW LIBERAL INDEED! Fighting is PERMITTED against those who resist the peaceful PROPOGATION of the religion of truth.
- Religion of "truth". As though all other religions are faking it. This is exactly the kind of attitude of the holy book that makes Muslims aggressive. When the messenger himself gives his "go-ahead" to fight in the name of Allah, what else do you need?
Ok, even assuming I have read nothing of Islam, centuries of history shows Islam killing in the NAME OF GOD. Semitic religions have this "holier-than-thou" attitude - and this is exactly why they are aggressive. EGO. As a religion you have many followers, but at a philosophy level, I know Islam (and Christianity)to be very immature - half-baked.
But you have the numbers - so you push your weight around.
Anand! ps: BTW, the ltte, Maoists, etc - none of them are commended by Hindus. None of them kill in the name of God. Islam kills in the name of God. And yes, most terrorists are still Muslims. If you can change that - well and good. But you wont. Because you fanatics read the Quran!
RE:RE:RE:Once again - Whats the root cause?
by mohd amul on Feb 16, 2007 05:14 PM Permalink
we have one book, one messenger and one god. There is no sacred act than saving an innocent. Modi is heroism u r talking, killing an unarmed man By the way I think You have many fatheres like your gods. I will start using harsh terms, because sometime you have to. Do you know when brahmins walk, other have to come aside. Earlier you guys were lick ing brahmins and now whites. Come out of this habit
RE:RE:Once again - Whats the root cause?
by Jarnail singh on Feb 16, 2007 06:05 PM Permalink
aqeel you are saying if someone kills an innocent person, it is equivalent to killing the whole community. then why people are defending an emperor who killed his own brother and father. he killed our gurus and their sons. not only that to spread his empire he killed lakhs of people. just to get support of fundamentalist he maked himself as a devout muslim. if qurans teachings are so noble then please dont defend aurangzeb.
RE:Once again - Whats the root cause?
by iluv2snub on Feb 16, 2007 04:17 PM Permalink
it seems u havent read the Quran at all, but rather blaming it blindly. Anyway, if u do read it, do tell me, in full context, where in the Quran, violence is advocated. if u dont understand the Quran, do ask some learned person about it. Else at least read Bhagvad Gita well. Anyway should the Bhagvad Gita be blamed for creating monsters like narendra modi, veerappan,prabhakaran, anti-sikh & godhra rioters? Know more b4 u blame more!!
RE:RE:RE:Once again - Whats the root cause?
by mohd amul on Feb 16, 2007 05:05 PM Permalink
ok its all filth there. everythin is wront there. but to make u understand, bring one thing which you think there is no answer for that. Then i will coment Now i understand why heart attack is so common in india. Hate is a disease if you understand it.
RE:Once again - Whats the root cause?
by syed rahman on Feb 16, 2007 04:36 PM Permalink
Mr. Anand, It looks you have read Quran (if not, go and read first!) but not with open-heart, but with revengeful, prejudice and biased heart. Even if u take medicine under these situations, than its of no-use, if I am wrong go and ask doctors. Remember, no religion advocates evils, even if my own brother muders an innocent non-muslim, then Quran says its like killing all humanity. And my brother should be hanged, irrespective of his religion. It is not like he is of my family or caste, so he should be punished less. No, hanged him, in the sight of one God, all are equal, ranks are according to his fear we possess in us,and nothing else.
But only thing is that guilty should be properly established in the court.
RE:RE:Once again - Whats the root cause?
by Jarnail singh on Feb 16, 2007 05:50 PM Permalink
sayed sahab thanks for this gyaan. but why you people cannot say that aurangzeb was wrong. if modi is wrong then aurangzeb was wrong too. i am surprised how you people are keeping different yardstick.
RE:Once again - Whats the root cause?
by Indian Muslim on Feb 16, 2007 04:26 PM Permalink
Yes ALL THAT CAN BE DONE WITHOUT LOCAL MUSLIM SUPPORT!
DO WE NOT HAVE ENOUGH ON OUR PLATES ALREADY TO HANDLE WITH ? ACTUALLY MORE THAN ENOUGH.
SUPPORT TERRORISTS FOR WHAT, EXACTLY? RELIGION ? GIVE ME A BREAK FELLAS. IF MUSLIMS DID SOMETHING FOR EACH OTHER , I DONT THINK, WE WOULD BE THE MOST , SOCIALLY, ECONOMICALLY,VOTE BANK BACKWARD COMMUNITY WITH A 1001 DIVISIONS. MUSLIMS IN INDIA ARE RATHER PEOPLE LIVING WITH AN ATTITUDE WHICH WOULD SURELY MAKE THEM WORTHLESS.
RE:Once again - Whats the root cause?
by Indian Muslim on Feb 16, 2007 04:29 PM Permalink
AND BY THE WAY, THE SRILANKAns SAYS , ALL ARRESTED TERRORISTS ARE TAMILIANS...HOW BOUT THAT?
RE:RE:Once again - Whats the root cause?
by syed rahman on Feb 16, 2007 04:26 PM Permalink
You seem to be sure that Nagas in Nagaland, Mizos in Mizoram, ULFA cadres in Assam, Sikh extremists in Punjab, Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka, Irish militias in Ireland, warlords in Columbia, warring factions in Rawanda all of them are Muslims. You certainly need to upadate yourself.
Tthe articles was indeed great. I hope you highlight some more articles on Bush,narendra modi.I heard Hitler was cruel to Jews bcause in his early childhod.He warched how jews were torcoring his mother who a maid and was poor.What he did was for his country welfare.Jews who were never obediant right from moses - are very money minded and misors, Moses himself curse them for helping them out of the bad time and still they dwell into dark.how many king if remeber who earn hit livelyhood but stiching caps and writing scripts alltough having million of rupees and property I heard he was very justifing king who can sacrify his own son if found guilty. I had watched one black and white movie based on him. In which he was ready to sacrify his own beloved queen for accidently killes a poor dhobimen - complained by dhobi's wife.I think u should watch the movie.And in Hitler case Balasaheb Thakrey and Narendra Modi are doing same thing what Hitler did for his people and country so why to blame Hitler.Its old quote - If you want to kill celebrity fist kill his name by hook or by crook.
RE:great work
by Dr. Vinay Gupta on Feb 16, 2007 04:18 PM Permalink
Dear you mean to say that dirty fellow was so honest, simple and full of pity that he 1. boiled Guru Teg-Bahadur in a bowl of oil 2. chopped heads of his small kids 3. brutally killed those who opposed conversion 4. destroyed temples in thousands and so on. You can call it. Very simple, you were not on the sufferer side. Then you should treat someone, who repeat the same thing NOW towards muslims, with same honour and pride. OR else accept that you are an opportunist.
RE:RE:great work
by Satish Godse on Feb 16, 2007 04:30 PM Permalink
I just wish to mention what Aurangzeb did to Raja Smabhaji ( son of maharaja Shivaji - maharashtra) he removed his eyes,tortur him to death. No body does that to a defeated king. Forget about what releigon he his, but aurangzeb is cruel king who killed everyone including his brothers who came in his way.
RE:great work
by milind b on Feb 16, 2007 04:16 PM Permalink
Dear Naz, Maybe u have not read history as u guys are busy reading just Koran and turning a blind eye towards other literary works. Firstly why single out Shri Balasaheb Thackeray and Shri Narendra Modi . What Hindus have done is a reaction to a more serious harm done by ur community guys . Did u forget Godhra? Well i would end this by saying we should learn more from Bush , the way he has chased these so called Islamists into their holes. Actually India should help Bush to wipe out this menace once for all as it posts a threat to all in India . India should send 1-2 lakh of our 120 Cr population to States like Afghanistan , (HISTORICALLY PART OF AKHAND BHARAT)and even to Iraq to help our American friends in wiping out jehadis
RE:RE:great work
by sunil kumar sunil on Feb 16, 2007 05:58 PM Permalink
MR. NAZ as you are taking about balasaheb and Narendra modi this people reacted to what has been done there people. I dont understand what has been done to AURANGAZEB and your great leader Osama Bin Laden. If you see none of the hindu is in terror or a terrorist. I dont understand just for money why people are going to pak and do nonsense in there motherland. They stay here, eat here, grow here and later once they grow up do terror here. One more thing pak thing's that indian muslim not muslim and you people put then on god's place. One thing i want to tell you before writing anything think what r u writing.
Hi What aurangzeb did was wrong every person with common sense would understand that, but havent times changed now, and are not all muslims and hindus indians now rather than being just msulims and just hindus, havent we developed into the best democracy in the world, the only place in the world where minorities are allowed to practice there realigion freely, and are other countries not jealous of this??
RE:good discussion
by sunil kumar sunil on Feb 16, 2007 06:01 PM Permalink
What r u talking about minorities man. Within few year you guys will be in majorities.
RE:good discussion
by Jarnail singh on Feb 16, 2007 06:10 PM Permalink
well said sajjad. these is what expected from a true muslim. i knows who is true muslim cannot defend a killer of innocent people. thanks for helping me to keep this belief alive.
RE:good discussion
by Dr. Vinay Gupta on Feb 16, 2007 04:20 PM Permalink
Thank God !!!! I could see one sensible muslim in this lot of dirt. Sajjad, you are right. The theme of article is not to create gap but to increase awareness about true history and not the lolly-pop brand history.
RE:good discussion
by rajesh menon on Feb 16, 2007 05:46 PM Permalink
hi sajjad it is wonderful to hear from u.I hope every person understand this and end the discussion.
RE:good discussion
by Surat Das on Feb 16, 2007 04:30 PM Permalink
Sajjad, I was happy to read your writings. I wish, every Muslim in India think so patriotically. Especially, Shaheer A. Mirza and mohamad nabeel who wrote here did not agree with the article and they say Auragzeb was a peace-loving king. But people like you have the courage to accept history as it was and has true feeling for a better India. Thanks.
