I RATHER THANK Mr gautier who unlike our pseudo secular jahils at least accept that the true face of a devout muslim ruler is as mentioned. Its a brutal truth. Now Are indians muslims different, I think they are aproximately 80 % of the people. But dear If there are even 10-15% people having the mentality of aurangzeb its good enough to cause destruction. And Since this proportion cannot be negated so I think at least people must be aware of their future that what might be coming. Some of the good at heart indian muslims become really peaved beyond the point where the words can reach and some have become insulars leaving it to destiny, when they see these kind of discussions. But then nothing can be further from truth. Reading half truth and living in illusion is the worst thing any body would do. And Let me assure anybody who is interested that India and indians are not made for violence and ethnic cleansing. They have thousands of years of history behind them.
i ahve been posting this message as a reply to some one slandering mud over hinduism, over 30 mins, but it is constantly kept hiddenby the moderator. see the hidden message, and enjoy.
This message is for muslim brothers, I appeal to my all literate youth muslims let's remove Islam from Mullahs and clergies hands. let's go to street teach people actual Islam. all relegions are good. and having some bad traditions. like in Hindus there was sati pratha, some literate people had tried removed it 95% similerly they tried and minimised Dahej pratha also. similerly muslim youth can do the same thing and reomove all those things which bad people inserted i Isalm.Come on.
RE:Lets have better relegion
by aditi sengupta on Feb 16, 2007 05:40 PM Permalink
Exactly my point. Please go to the mosques and spread this message instead of being tongue tied there. Unless you take the bull from its horns, all you will end up doing is posting anonymously out here. We need crusaders from within your religion who can stand up and weed out the undesirables.
RE:RE:RE:Lets have better relegion
by Anis Khan on Feb 16, 2007 06:51 PM Permalink
Have you got any proof of, just going on saying, who the hell are you Mairan, are u sitting here to just say any nonsense prove it.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Lets have better relegion
by Anis Khan on Feb 16, 2007 06:51 PM Permalink
Read this RE:forget the past and move on by Anshuman Mishra on Feb 16, 2007 06:20 PM Rock Water, if we open the ancient indian history we find lot of kings who ascended the throne after patricidal or fatricidal wars. That means killing their brothers and father.
Our Greate Ashok killed his brothers and sent his father to jail. So did do Kansa who imprisoned his father and sister. I can quote numerous examples from Ancient India uptill 18th century. And all these were hindu rulers. So where is our tolerance as a hindu. Lets not blame Islam for Aurangzebs misdoings
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Lets have better relegion
by Sam Nath on Feb 17, 2007 02:30 AM Permalink
My dear Anis Khan, No Hindu raja or any other rajas (Non Islamic)did this just to follow the religious duty. I hope you understand this. A'Zeb did this to follow his religious duty as you know how orthodox he was about Islam and I believe he wrote holy books on Islam. So, your comparison is little bit off my friend.
Aurangazeb was a tyrant how can one kill his own father shahjahan aurangazeb had done that and yes he was very brutel to people not following islam, but I think that was the worst period of mughal empire but then the benefits of Islam in India was suffism and i think that has been the best for India and I think the whole world needs suffism, right across middle east pakistan, afghanistan and fighting on name of religion is ignorance let it be a hindu or a muslim or any religion I think we should fight for humanity and lets not talk about taking revenge, jews were put through worse times but for them to hate every german in todays world will be bad and they dont do it, so why should we blame muslims for auranagzeb just rememeber there were all once a hindu and today they have their own faith thats all we need to accept that and not justify any voilence let it be in gujarat
RE:forget the past and move on
by Anshuman Mishra on Feb 16, 2007 06:20 PM Permalink
Rock Water, if we open the ancient indian history we find lot of kings who ascended the throne after patricidal or fatricidal wars. That means killing their brothers and father.
Our Greate Ashok killed his brothers and sent his father to jail. So did do Kansa who imprisoned his father and sister. I can quote numerous examples from Ancient India uptill 18th century. And all these were hindu rulers. So where is our tolerance as a hindu. Lets not blame Islam for Aurangzebs misdoings
RE:RE:forget the past and move on
by gourav khare on Feb 16, 2007 07:41 PM Permalink
We never endorse doing on Kansa or Ashoka for that matter. We are against everyone who kill his brother/father for power.
RE:RE:RE:forget the past and move on
by Anshuman Mishra on Feb 16, 2007 10:05 PM Permalink
then you should be against Kansa and Ashoka too and numerous other mythological figures and later kings. Because they too killed their brothers and father
There are no different kinds of islam like tolerant, intolerant, sufi, shia, or sunni. Islam is only one and any one who is bringing a variation in it and following that variation is just getting deviated from the right path.
There is no islam which can accept other faiths, if it does so it will contradict itself about accepting Allah as the only one worthy of worship. Muslims can very well live in peace and harmony with people of other religions, it is their obligation to give respect to other religions but a muslim cannot follow any other religion along with islam.
RE:RE:ISLAM IS ONE AND ALL MUSLIMS ARE ONE AND EQUAL
by farrukh nadeem on Feb 16, 2007 06:00 PM Permalink
If Aurangzeb was that cruel, then just a question why he left the ancient Jain mandir just in front of Lal Quila in Delhi.
Another fact about Aurangzeb, he never withdrew funds from the goverments treasure for his personal pleasure. He used to tranlate Quran in other languages and thus earned money for his living.
Aurangzeb is a culprit largely due to Sikh's displeasure. Shivaji was also a very adamant ruler he also killed one of the Muslim ruler while he was invited by Shivaji for talks. Before the start of talks Shivaji used his Sher panja and killed that Muslim minister. I forget his name.
Friends fanatism for any religion is dangerous. What is important is to first become human ourself then care about others.
RE:RE:RE:ISLAM IS ONE AND ALL MUSLIMS ARE ONE AND EQUAL
by jayant somvanshi on Feb 16, 2007 06:56 PM Permalink
to everybody, History is something which we accept what we read. But fact can be known from people who really suffered. whosoever thinks that Auranbzeb is great because he was not spending any mony from government for personal use and that makes him great should visit india especially maharashtra for seeing his cruel dids because of which india is still facing social disturbance. If somebody feels Aurang zeb was good I really feel pity for them that they are misguided. After partition it happens and its quite natural that countries like pakistan they will teach history which will promote that every islamic ruler of india was good because islam is basis of formation of pakistan and they try to look down upon hindu kings. That is happening with some guys like farrukh nadeem who might have read that kind of stuff. He has no right to compare shivaji the manner he compared him with Aurangzeb. In india there are lot of muslims who have great respect for Shivaji (and equal hate for Aurangzeb) for his secular stance and his freedom struggle. So what i want to say to everybody is please dont comment anything untill you achieve that so called impartial thiking which is quite difficult to have for anybody including me because all of us are influenced by social things surrounding us.
RE:RE:RE:ISLAM IS ONE AND ALL MUSLIMS ARE ONE AND EQUAL
by Anshuman Mishra on Feb 16, 2007 06:02 PM Permalink
Whom Shivaji killed was Azam Khan, the mama of Aurangzeb
RE:RE:RE:ISLAM IS ONE AND ALL MUSLIMS ARE ONE AND EQUAL
by bharat on Feb 16, 2007 06:26 PM Permalink
Get your history straight. The "Muslim Leader" who you say "killed" by Shivaji was Afzal Khan who represented Adil Shah of Bijapur. Afzal Khan invited Shivaji for talks to Pratapgadh, a famous fort in Maharashtra. Don't be under the impression that Afzal Khan was an innocent soul. His intention behind inviting Shivaji was to get Shivaji one to one and kill him. Shivaji smelt a rat and went prepared for this eventuality. The mighty Khan, much bigger in size compared to Shivaju, asked Shivaji to embrace him. As Shivaji embraced, the Khan took out his dagger and tried to stab Shivaji who had put on a armour since he had anticipated something foul. Shivaji was smart enough and turned the tables on Afzal Khan and tore his abdomen with his sher panja.
If you fear god, don't try to glorify Afzal Khan. Take lessons in history.
RE:RE:ISLAM IS ONE AND ALL MUSLIMS ARE ONE AND EQUAL
by Santa on Feb 16, 2007 05:46 PM Permalink
However, I can see a christian trying to gain the confidence of Hindus and then convert them to christianity even without their knowledge. Everything happens seamlessly, in a galmorous and polished manner. I can't stop myself from appreciating the tactics of christians.
RE:RE:RE:ISLAM IS ONE AND ALL MUSLIMS ARE ONE AND EQUAL
by on Feb 16, 2007 06:28 PM Permalink
Islam is unique. It can neither be changed nor subjected to reform.According to Islam Mohamed was the last prophet and any attempt to change the existing form shall be considered unislamic. Intolerance and violance is a built within its core though literally "Islam" means "peace". Muslims will want secular India so long they are minority. Once they reach 40% population, the will impose Sharia rule with help of power hungry idiotic Hindu & Sikh Politicians leading to destruction of other faiths. Once they reach 51% India will be Islamic Country. Look at Pakistan & Bangladesh. What is the condition of Hindus there? You should not look at displaced Kashmiri Pandits as this will destroy "secular fabric" of India. Let so called secular Indians remain in peace and communal Hindus bark in vain.
RE:RE:RE:RE:ISLAM IS ONE AND ALL MUSLIMS ARE ONE AND EQUAL
by NIRANJAN L on Feb 16, 2007 06:06 PM Permalink
WOW...WHAT A JOKE HAPPENING HERE....THE GUY (FRANCOIS GAUTIER) IS A CHRISTIAN WHO IS SO SUCCESFUL IN CREATING A WAR (OF WORDS & SUBSEQUENT BLOOD SHED) BETWEEN HINDUS & MUSLIMS... WAKE UP GUYS.. WE HAVE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO DO IN LIFE THAN FIGHT ABOUT RELIGION. REMEMBER... GOD MADE MAN...MAN DIDN'T MAKE GOD. RELIGION IS BUT MAN MADE & MOST CERTAINLY THERE ARE SEVERAL FLAWS. THE WORLD IS PROGRESSING & WE SHOUDLN'T BE LEFT BEHIND. WAKE UP TO FACTS FACING US IN THE EYE. LEAVE RELIGION TO THE CLERGIES. THEY ARE GONNA DIE SOON ANYWAY.
RE:RE:RE:RE:ISLAM IS ONE AND ALL MUSLIMS ARE ONE AND EQUAL
by Santa on Feb 16, 2007 05:52 PM Permalink
There's nothing to answer in your post. You are trying hard to highlight yourself. Keep doing that.
Mr.Francois Gautier, I am sorry to say that you call yourself historian and know the facts about Indian history but I your article does not reflect the same.
There are both good and bad things about any individual. If you go into the details of Aurangzeb's tenure his court was having maximum number of Hindu nobles in good positions. His tenure is the brightest in Mughal era interms of strenght and prosperity. 1.He is the only emperor who earned livings by stitching caps and selling and also writing Quran. 2.He was the one who is opposed to the lavish spending. He is opposed to his father spending public money for construction of Taj Mahal. 3.He is opposed to people who talk two theories conveniently enjoying the good/bad things as per their likes. 4.Even Britishers admired him for administrative abilities and constructed tomb on his open grave yard. 5.He totally believed in Islam and tried to bring the people are living wayward life into straight path. 6.If you are talking about forceful conversions there is not a single instance Aurangazeb has forcefully converted people to Islam he only liked the people who are true sunnis.
You don't see any muslim begging the people on the roads to come and join Islam. People who convert are convinced about the truth and once they embrace they never look back. Coming to your comment on Islam adopting to new world I don't know which world you are talking about. People who are living in so called advanced nations are fed up with the falling moral values and looking for guidance and embracing Islam. Unlike other books Quran which is Allah's guidance to humanity is not for manupulations as per the whims and wishes of people who want to enjoy only the worldly things by any means don't care about hereafter. In India Hindu's and Muslims live like brothers there might be few difference which will very soon vanish. Mr. Gautier before writing on any thing please do proper home work people are not fools to go by whatever you are saying with little/no knowledge.
RE:Truth about Aurangazeb
by Subramanian HK on Feb 16, 2007 06:03 PM Permalink
living in denial is a sort of emotional refuge that weak minded people seek all the time.
RE:Truth about Aurangazeb
by farrukh nadeem on Feb 16, 2007 06:03 PM Permalink
Fully agree. Thanks sir for spreading your knowledge about Aurangzeb, as he is brutaly hated by Indian people.
RE:Truth about Aurangazeb
by Rock Water on Feb 16, 2007 05:43 PM Permalink
Riaz i think your a pakistani national as its only in pakistan is aurangazeb considered a hero and do u believe in killing ur own father and brother so as u can rule a kingdom was he that pious, regarding having hindu scholars was just cause he wanted his administration in the best hands and not run by fanatics so i think he was a shrewd, cunning ruler and regarding the british building a tomb was to get the goodwill of the community in the country as they had their own ideas to enter India yes under aurangazeb they found it difficult but also remember aurnagzeb couldnt defeat Shivaji either with all his might I am not a Maharashtrian but I salute the valour of this mighty king Shivaji who never let a tyrant dictate terms, this wouldnt be thought in ur history but do a google on this personality you will no who the real hero is
RE:RE:Truth about Aurangazeb
by Anis Khan on Feb 16, 2007 06:59 PM Permalink
READ THIS : RE:forget the past and move on by Anshuman Mishra on Feb 16, 2007 06:20 PM Rock Water, if we open the ancient indian history we find lot of kings who ascended the throne after patricidal or fatricidal wars. That means killing their brothers and father.
Our Greate Ashok killed his brothers and sent his father to jail. So did do Kansa who imprisoned his father and sister. I can quote numerous examples from Ancient India uptill 18th century. And all these were hindu rulers. So where is our tolerance as a hindu. Lets not blame Islam for Aurangzebs misdoings
RE:Truth about Aurangazeb
by jehangir ahmad khan on Feb 16, 2007 05:43 PM Permalink
dear Riaz Ahmed ist correct the spelling of Char-E-Sharief in ur column.
RE:Truth about Aurangazeb
by Sam Nath on Feb 17, 2007 02:56 AM Permalink
Riaz Ahmed, Yes, it will vanish once you gain the majority either by conversion or by reproduction
RE:Truth about Aurangazeb
by mks on Feb 16, 2007 06:09 PM Permalink
are u from pakistan..sure u are..this kind beautifull history is only taught in pakistan... History has become a matter of personal intreration...make hero out of anyone even though that pareson is a butcher par excellence
RE:Truth about Aurangazeb
by Anshuman Mishra on Feb 16, 2007 05:58 PM Permalink
Riaz, Every emperor in our subcontinent's history had had his share of good and bad things. Let's think in this way, why Aurangzeb is still blamed and criticised? The reason being the contentious issues with which our communities are struggling like masjid, mandir and etc are traced back to Aurangzeb. Tipu Sultan was also involved in conversions but as he faught for the country and did not leave any inheritance behind, he is revered in our country by hindus and muslims alike. Aurangzeb was a very commited ruler...he never earned any livelihood from the royal treasury, he earned only from stitching caps and working as katib. Here, I am not discussing Islam and Hinduism and their tolerance but what I would like to know is how our communities can remove and mitigate any issue that has been disturbing us since generations.
RE:Truth about Aurangazeb
by NIRANJAN L on Feb 16, 2007 06:10 PM Permalink
WOW...WHAT A JOKE HAPPENING HERE....THE GUY (FRANCOIS GAUTIER) IS A CHRISTIAN WHO IS SO SUCCESFUL IN CREATING A WAR (OF WORDS & SUBSEQUENT BLOOD SHED) BETWEEN HINDUS & MUSLIMS... WAKE UP GUYS.. WE HAVE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO DO IN LIFE THAN FIGHT ABOUT RELIGION. REMEMBER... GOD MADE MAN...MAN DIDN'T MAKE GOD. RELIGION IS BUT MAN MADE & MOST CERTAINLY THERE ARE SEVERAL FLAWS. THE WORLD IS PROGRESSING & WE SHOUDLN'T BE LEFT BEHIND. WAKE UP TO FACTS FACING US IN THE EYE. LEAVE RELIGION TO THE CLERGIES. THEY ARE GONNA DIE SOON ANYWAY.
