First of all for the act of one or few things cant be generalized.In india history is presented as the author wants,with so much diversity in history no body know the exact truth.this author has related act of aurangzeb to islam and scripture.this is disaster.in this age everybody has access to quran and hadith,go through it then comment anything.one thing said again and again islam spread with power of sword.this totally wrong.in last few decades in india and western country people are converting to islam only after knowing the virtues of islam,no sword is used.this seems to be biased article as many keep coming now and then.
RE:?????????????????????????????????
by rajaram R on Feb 16, 2007 07:18 PM Permalink
Mr. Aftab, Although I am a hindu.. i have tried to my level best to understand islam and read many version of quran and its dialects. I still feel that the islam is a great religion with worst followers (65%). how many muslims do really follow islam. Islam states that state of mind, how many muslims do follow it. I will leave it to you to decide.
At the end of the day you are not the judge for your deeds.
I really welcome this article because atleast at some time we need to realise the truth and stop taking religion seriously and realise how kings and politicans have made us fools...
First of all, I appreciate the efforts of whoso ever organised the above said exhibition on Aurangzeb. Because, history in India is played around by many depending on their lineage. So atleast ,if there is an effort to show us our past based on factual evidences, its a most welcome step. I think people who visit such exhibition will draw their own conclusions based on their rational thinking so I think one does not need to start mud slinging on each other.
After all history is a bygone past, can we correct it? I think NO. But if its placed in right perspective we can learn right lessons. So more of such exhibitions across the India to put Indian History (may be world history) in perspective. It will also help people to recognise those historians who play around with facts according to their conveninece.
Let us try to build an India of tomorrow and not of past because all religions, all rulers had their own share of good and bad governance.
I also congratualte Mr. Gautier for informing us about such an event otherwise such things are hardly known to those who live outside Delhi. A request: could you also place the details of the organiser of this exhibition or if possible more detailed version of this exhibition on rediff. Thanks SPR
One sided article from Indian Civilizational point of view. If it is truth that A'zeb has destroyed temples, then UNIVERSAL truth is that So called Hindus did same thing for Buddhist. Give back Tirupati Balaji, Jagannath of Orissa, Vitthal (Pandhanpur) of Maharashtra to Buddhist communities...
RE:Usual obnoxious article
by Jane on Feb 16, 2007 07:31 PM Permalink
Do you the Only Indian King Rajendra Chola who conquered outside India prensent countries like Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Malay Islands, Cambodia, Sri Lanka, etc. He had never converted other religion persons to Hinduism thought he conquered many countries and he is not at all defeated by anyone in his lifetime.
If he converted these country people to Hinduism, all these countries will be having Hinduism as a Religion
RE:RE:Usual obnoxious article
by Bharath Patriot on Feb 16, 2007 08:07 PM Permalink
Yes I agree with you. To clarify, King Rajendra Chola had a military conquest not a religious one. But all Muslim conquests were waged for the purpose of Conversion. The captured domains were added to the victorous Muslim territory and the subdued people were brutally treated, killed, raped and blundered with no humanity and the only option for freedom was conversion. Sad but true, any true patriot will not agree with Aurangazeb and his policies at all.
RE:Usual obnoxious article
by Jane on Feb 16, 2007 07:15 PM Permalink
here it is not about religions. It describes what Aurangazeb did. So, Comment about it.
I am not attacking any community. Just telling facts. This is not an abuse.
Encyclopaedia Britannica mentions that Mughal emperor Akbar 'ordered the massacre of about 30,000 captured Rajput Hindus on February 24, 1568 AD, after the battle for Chitod, a number confirmed by Abul Fazl, Akbar's court historian.' Afghan historian Khondamir records that during one of the many repeated invasions on the city of Herat in western Afghanistan, which used to be part of the Hindu Shahiya kingdoms '1,500,000 residents perished.
Firuz Shah Tughlak (1351-1388), who has an avenue named after him in New Delhi, wrote: 'On the day of a Hindu festival, I went there myself, ordered the executions of all the leaders and practitioners of this abomination; I destroyed their idols and temples to build mosques in their places.
In Persian, the word "Kush" is derived from the verb Kushtar -- to slaughter or carnage, because all Hindus living in Hindu kush were slaughtered. Encyclopaedia Americana says of Hindu Kush: The name means literally "Kills the Hindu," a reminder of the days when Hindu slaves from Indian subcontinent died in harsh Afghan mountains while being transported to Moslem courts of Central Asia. the exact toll of the Hindu genocide suggested by the name Hindu Kush is not available. However the number is easily likely to be in millions.
Lakhs of Hindus and Buddhists were killed in this region. The word Hindukush itself gives the meaning slaughter of Hindus.
During the Islamic conquests in India, it was a typical policy to single out the Brahmins for slaughter, after the Hindu warrior class had been bled on the battlefield.
Hindus experienced this treatment at the hands of Islamic conquerors, e.g. when Mohammed bin Qasim conquered the lower Indus basin in 712 CE. Thus, in Multan, according to the Chach-Nama, "six thousand warriors were put to death, and all their relations and dependents were taken as slaves". This is why Rajput women committed mass suicide to save their honour in the face of the imminent entry of victorious Muslim armies, e.g. 8,000 women immolated themselves during Akbar's capture of Chittorgarh in 1568 (where this most enlightened ruler also killed 30,000 non-combatants). During the Partition pogroms and the East Bengali genocide, mass rape of Hindu women after the slaughter of their fathers and husbands was a frequent event.
There is no official estimate of the total death toll of Hindus at the hands of Islam. A first glance at important testimonies by Muslim chroniclers suggests that, over 13 centuries and a territory as vast as the Subcontinent, Muslim Holy Warriors easily killed more Hindus than the 6 million of the Holocaust. Ferishtha lists several occasions when the Bahmani sultans in central India (1347-1528) killed a hundred thousand Hindus, which they set as a minimum goal whenever they felt like "punishing" the Hindus; and they were only a third-rank provincial dynasty. The biggest slaughters took place during the raids of Mahmud Ghaznavi (ca. 1000 CE); during the actual conquest of North India by Mohammed Ghori and his lieutenants (1192 ff.); and under the Delhi Sultanate (1206-1526). The Moghuls (1526-1857), even Babar and Aurangzeb, were fairly restrained tyrants by comparison. Prof. K.S. Lal once estimated that the Indian population declined by 50 million under the Sultanate, but that would be hard to substantiate; research into the magnitude of the damage Islam did to India is yet to start in right earnest.
Apart from actual killing, millions of Hindus disappeared by way of enslavement. After every conquest by a Muslim invader, slave markets in Bagdad and Samarkand were flooded with Hindus. Slaves were likely to die of hardship, e.g. the mountain range Hindu Koh, "Indian mountain", was renamed Hindu Kush, "Hindu-killer", when one cold night in the reign of Timur Lenk (1398-99), a hundred thousand Hindu slaves died there while on transport to Central Asia. Though Timur conquered Delhi from another Muslim ruler, he recorded in his journal that he made sure his pillaging soldiers spared the Muslim quarter, while in the Hindu areas, they took "twenty slaves each". Hindu slaves were converted to Islam, and when their descendants gained their freedom, they swelled the numbers of the Muslim community. It is a cruel twist of history that the Muslims who forced Partition on India were partly the progeny of Hindus enslaved by Islam.
Why does not the Government of India tell Indian children about the Hindu Kush genocide? The horrors of the Jewish Holocaust are taught not only at schools in Israel and USA, but also in Germany. Thus denial of history, or negationism, has become India's official 'educational' policy.
RE:This is not abuse. Dont delete this... plzzz
by Santa on Feb 16, 2007 06:43 PM Permalink
If what you have written is correct, Hindus should have been a minority in our country now. By the way, sentences do not become facts just because they are coming from Encyclopaedia Britannica. West has always felt that Islam is a threat to their expansionism and hence have always spread lies and misunderstanding about Islam.
RE:RE:This is not abuse. Dont delete this... plzzz
by Fighter on Feb 16, 2007 07:05 PM Permalink
Santa, This is only becuase of our deep spiritual faith. Trust me world ancient cultures like Greeks and other cultures were so weak that they were wiped out of history, but are here and would continue to be here because of great spiritual and strong society. I am not blaming current generation Muslims. I also have few good Muslim friends. Why I am insisting not to hide history is because History is not to ignore, but to learn a lesson for future. We should learn from our mistakes. Because whatever happened in past can happens in future also and you should be prepared for that. But our policy is denial of history, or of negationism. Never forget what happened after partition, 10 lakhs of innocent hindus were massacred by fundamentalist needless to mention Islamist brothers. Why? Have you ever thought of that. Why yesterday's neighbours become blood thirsty enemy within one day after declaration of Direct action by Jinna. Shivani please dont be so ignorant. What ever happened in past can happen in future, We should identify potential growing threat in society and should be alert.
RE:RE:RE:This is not abuse. Dont delete this... plzzz
by Fighter on Feb 16, 2007 10:55 PM Permalink
Nijanjan appreciate your thought on this. Yes we should make a new beginning. We should grow as strong economy, strong society and powerful country.
For this we need uniformity, a fabric of affection, love, nationality woven around all indians of different ethnic diversity. Not appeasement of a specific religious group for political votebank reason. Not appeasing Abdulla Bukhari, for getting undivided Muslim votes.
Have you ever travelled to Indo-Nepal border of India, Assam,Kashmir, North East. These places make you feel as if you are in Pakistan or Bangladesh. In Indo-Nepal border Madarassa's followed by Jehadis are growing without any restriction. And Hindu's are deprived of their basic right.
What is mistake of Kashmiri Hindus (peace loving ethinic group) residing as refugees in their own country. Why in bangladesh Hindu's are deprived of their basic regious rights. In Bangladesh Hindu's wives, daughters are forcibly married to Muslims and their Land/property is engulf by enfluencial muslims. Mr Salam Azad-the 38 year old Bangladeshi writer and an eminent human rights activist predicted that there were "three options for Bangla Hindus. They can embrace Islam, leave the country or commit suicide".
Tell me if ancestors of these Hindus didn't participated in our freedom struggle. Then why not are they sharing resources of Free India. Our PM says Muslims have first right for resources of this country. Ancestors of these Hindus also fought for freedom struggle against British with our ancestors. Then what is mistake of these hindus. Inside India in Muslim dominated areas still Hindus are living like a scared cow. Why? In pakistan what is condition of Hindus, worst than slaves, Only option left is suicide or convert to Islam. During partition, Why 10 lakhs of innocent hindus were massacred by fundamentalist needless to mention Islamist brothers. Why? Have you ever thought of that. Why yesterday's good neighbours become blood thirsty enemy within one day after declaration of "Direct action" by Jinna. Have you ever did any thought processing to find out reason for that.
We are just trying to forget our history. By doing this we are teasing our poor ancestors as well fooling around ourselves and waiting for another partition.
Next partition of country is inevitable, unless we do not explore reason for our Initial failure. History is to learn lesson, not to ignore it. You are staying in safe cities like Bangalore or Mumbai, hence not feeling pain of minority hindus staying in border areas. once Muslim outnumber you in these cities, Then you will see results. India - pakistan partition and 10 lakhs massacre are the example of what am I saying.
Yes we should make this country strong economy, but we should also make this country secure, better place to live and fearless society.
RE:This is not abuse. Dont delete this... plzzz
by NIRANJAN L on Feb 16, 2007 06:52 PM Permalink
Dear Fighter you can accept dark facts when you are mature enough to understand why & how they happened. Majority of Indians are still over sensitive to these issues & will flame up on recalling these incidents. Its gonna take a real long time for us to mature, think about shaping the future & then recalling & undestanding the past. Most nations that have accepted the past are the ones with one major religion. Its no joke to convince a billion people following numerous faiths about a dark past. Its best to keep the past there & move ahead. All religions have resorted to some tactic for propogation. If anyone brought out the facts about the spread of Christianity, Aurangzeb would sound like a kindergarten kid. The fact is that we are constantly facing a world that has more practical problems than spiritual ones. Every nation knows it can't survive by itself. Boundaries are opening up like never before. Communication couldn't have been better. All this is allowing human to human contacts. When you look deep inside yourself & others, you see no difference. Its something written down centuries ago, that had relevance then, that is still dictating the ways of life. Religion is required to discipline humans but law is not much different. There are plenty of Aurangzebs & Hitlers practising even today. Its just a matter of how we fight them to oblivion that decides what the world is going to look like in the near & far future. Lets wake up to accept human kind as one & sort problems that will let us all live equally & happily in the short time we are gonna be in this planet
RE:RE:This is not abuse. Dont delete this... plzzz
by Fighter on Feb 16, 2007 10:55 PM Permalink
Nijanjan appreciate your thought on this. Yes we should make a new beginning. We should grow as strong economy, strong society and powerful country.
For this we need uniformity, a fabric of affection, love, nationality woven around all indians of different ethnic diversity. Not appeasement of a specific religious group for political votebank reason. Not appeasing Abdulla Bukhari, for getting undivided Muslim votes.
Have you ever travelled to Indo-Nepal border of India, Assam,Kashmir, North East. These places make you feel as if you are in Pakistan or Bangladesh. In Indo-Nepal border Madarassa's followed by Jehadis are growing without any restriction. And Hindu's are deprived of their basic right.
What is mistake of Kashmiri Hindus (peace loving ethinic group) residing as refugees in their own country. Why in bangladesh Hindu's are deprived of their basic regious rights. In Bangladesh Hindu's wives, daughters are forcibly married to Muslims and their Land/property is engulf by enfluencial muslims. Mr Salam Azad-the 38 year old Bangladeshi writer and an eminent human rights activist predicted that there were "three options for Bangla Hindus. They can embrace Islam, leave the country or commit suicide".
Tell me if ancestors of these Hindus didn't participated in our freedom struggle. Then why not are they sharing resources of Free India. Our PM says Muslims have first right for resources of this country. Ancestors of these Hindus also fought for freedom struggle against British with our ancestors. Then what is mistake of these hindus. Inside India in Muslim dominated areas still Hindus are living like a scared cow. Why? In pakistan what is condition of Hindus, worst than slaves, Only option left is suicide or convert to Islam. During partition, Why 10 lakhs of innocent hindus were massacred by fundamentalist needless to mention Islamist brothers. Why? Have you ever thought of that. Why yesterday's good neighbours become blood thirsty enemy within one day after declaration of "Direct action" by Jinna. Have you ever did any thought processing to find out reason for that.
We are just trying to forget our history. By doing this we are teasing our poor ancestors as well fooling around ourselves and waiting for another partition.
Next partition of country is inevitable, unless we do not explore reason for our Initial failure. History is to learn lesson, not to ignore it. You are staying in safe cities like Bangalore or Mumbai, hence not feeling pain of minority hindus staying in border areas. once Muslim outnumber you in these cities, Then you will see results. India - pakistan partition and 10 lakhs massacre are the example of what am I saying.
Yes we should make this country strong economy, but we should also make this country secure, better place to live and fearless society.
RE:RE:This is not abuse. Dont delete this... plzzz
by Subhra Mahapatra on Feb 16, 2007 06:59 PM Permalink
I duly accept Mr. Niranjan's viw and respect his thoughts.
RE:This is not abuse. Dont delete this... plzzz
by Raj on Feb 16, 2007 07:51 PM Permalink
Problem India has is coward educated Hindus. Well we may have to tutor those Hindus who talk against Ram Janma Bhumi. We have weakness within us. Let%u2019s break these people before we take on the Islam and Christian converts
When comparing the religous tolerances, both the religions prescribe intolerance towards misspending the time. And this what we are not following. Enough history has been discussed, debated and distorted. A foreinger like Gautier who has no role to play in our country or help us in our progress, drops a contentious bone in between just what the britishers did, our politicians do and now this man.
Had Aurangzeb been as intolerant as being maligned here by Hindutva freaks than today in 2007 four centuries after Aurangzeb the Hindu-Muslim equation in this country would have been reversed? Muslim would have been 80% and Hindus 20%.
RE:Biggest lie
by mks on Feb 16, 2007 06:38 PM Permalink
you are worng Aurangzeb had to fight marathas,sikhs,rajputs and many smaller kings from south...its nothing but your facination...
RE:Biggest lie
by Sirish R on Feb 16, 2007 08:48 PM Permalink
but Bharath was not just the present day India, it also consists of the entire present Pakistan, Afganistan, Bangaladesh, which are majority countries. the proportion from 0 to what percentage they are when put together!!! so your logic doesn't work..
RE:RE:Biggest lie
by haresh talreja on Feb 16, 2007 09:02 PM Permalink
Thats 100% correct Sirish....appreciate you for bringing this to notice to everybody and specially our muslim brothers here who never get tired of shouting on the roof tops that "Muslims are Minorities in India".
