Beware O'My Dalit Brothers .. as jihadis on this forum are taking up your cause not for your concerns or yout well being - but to seprate you from the main stream and then to force you to accept islam.. read what our beloved babasaheb has to say about them..
A letter by Dr. Ambedkar sent from England at the time of Third Round Table Conference published in "Janata" of 24.12.1932, [M.F.Ganjare - ed. vol III. p. 20 ff., 'babasaheb aambedkarachi bhashane', (marathi), Ashok Prakashan, Nagpur. reprint, no date]
"When Hindus and Muslims fight among themselves, the Untouchables tend to incline towards Muslims. They feel, they would be benifitted if they develope friendship with Muslims. But Untouchables should keep in mind that it is not all that true as it appears and so they should be very careful.
What I expereinced at the time of Sarada Act about the Muslim policy, can not called satisfactory. I got first severe jolt when I found that almost all the Muslims got ready to oppose the essential Act like Sarda Act along with the obsolete and puranic, fundamentalists and revivalist orthodox Hindus. And at the time of Round Table Conference, I got second experience now that their attitude can be how narrow and retrograde, like that of sanatani orthodox Hindus. A special telegram from the Brahmin President of Varnashram Brahman Sangha was received recently by a Muslim delegate, Mr. Gazanavi. It was a message that Muslims should cooperate with orthodox Hindus in opposing the Untouchables temple entry movement. It was also suggested that, if India gets freedom, it would be dangerous to the religion of both Hindus as well as Muslims, and so the religious Muslims should be careful about the swaraj like religious Hindus. The sanatani brahmins also requested Mr. Gaznabi to put forward the side of sanatani Hindus by the Muslim delegates in the RTC! Thus, it could be said that these arthodox brahmins have materialised the proverb that 'we are orhtodox brahmins and our relatives are muslims'. Mr.Gazanabi has published this telegram in 'Times' here. The fact, that the orthodox Bengali Muslim like Mr. Gaznabe should be entrusted the job of preserving the religion of Hindus, by the orthodox Hindus, and that he should accept it, should be borne in mind by all the reformists in India. It is an execlent example of how an orthodox sanatani Hindu is ready to pray even an 'yavan' or a 'mlenchha' when he finds the life of his 'dharma' is in danger (from untouchables). And the 'dharma' of Hindus is such a provokative (vigna-santoshi) one, that whenever any thing new happens, or due to time any change takes place in traditional customms, they shout that, dharm' is in danger. Just like a sanatani Hindu, the Indian Muslim also is a strange object. He is averse to all social reforms. His corelegionists outside India have turned to be social revolutionaries. A Muslim patriot like Kemal Pasha has quashed all customs and traditions which are hurdles against the progress of nation and human life. I have great respect and affinity for Kemal Pasha. But the Indian Muslims, even the patriots and nationalists like Shaukat Ali, do not like Kemal Pasha and Amanullah. Because they are reformists, and in the eyes of a Indian Muslim, reform is a sacrilege."
RE:Ambedkar views on Muslims - must read for Dalit.
by jatin on Apr 23, 2007 11:11 PM Permalink
Ambedkar was highly critical of the practice of untouchability in Indian Muslim Society, lending credence to the view that he was not exclusively against Hindus or Hinduism, but was speaking of reforming social evils. In his acclaimed publication "Pakistan and the Partition of India", he writes that, while Islam speaks of "brotherhood", the practice of slavery and caste discrimination were rampant in Muslim society in South Asia, such as the Ashraf/Ajlaf caste divide and the severe discrimination against the Arzal castes or Dalit Muslim untouchables....
No self-respecting Untouchable worth the name will be proud of this land- B.R. Ambedkar
It said, most accurately, that none learns from history. We sadly therefore are bound to witness history repeating itself. It has boggled this writer%u2019s mind, how on earth the so-called rational and even highly %u2018educated%u2019 and religious individuals could subscribe to a tyrannical system where by one is given %u201Cspiritual sanction%u201D to exclude other human beings from temple entry, purely on the basis of ritual purity. Furthermore, in society, deny their fundamental human rights, civil liberties and not afford the %u201Cother%u201D their rightful opportunities, advancements in life, primarily on the basis of caste. The appalling tragedy is that such humans are not just considered less equal; but in fact, they are considered not humans at all. Akin to the slave trade days of old, such precious humans are considered to be mere commodities, not humans.
Nazism was based on racial purity and superiority. The system of Casteism determines a human%u2019s destiny purely on the basis of caste. If Nazism and slavery were abolished, why then Casteism cannot be demolished and its evils uprooted?
In the democratic India, even today, highly qualified Dalits are still unemployed. Some have returned to the jobs of their fathers %u2013 usually manual labour, paid mere pittance. Dalits face much physical violence from wider community. Even education is unable to lift the Dalits out of their misery. Tragically education is refusing to bring enlightenment to the so-called high castes.
For centuries, neither high spirituality, nor great philosophies have managed to shed light on the sin of the nation. Casteism some how have managed to convince the masses that it is here to stay, and some even have the audacity to reason that it is divinely organised %u201Ca good thing%u201D %u2013 an obnoxious fatalistic acquiescence. If education is only a means to economic advancement then it has miserably failed in such societies to uproot its predominant dehumanising evil because the state education has been massaged and hijacked in such a way by the upper classes as to not address the conscience of the nation %u2013 And hence attitudinal shift - even one iota, is not the result. There are of course some, a very few exceptions, to the general rule. This writer even wonders, whether intellectuals have simply gone with the might torrential flow %u2013 even to the extent of studied silence (?).
It is appropriate here to quote a conversation [1] between the %u201Ctwo-Mahatmas%u201D: MK Gandhi and BR Amebdkar. It is worthy to note here that the latter found intellectual and spiritual appeal in Buddhism. He turned his back on Hinduism and the thraldom of Casteism:
GANDHI: Well, Doctor, what have you to say in the matter?
AMBEDKAR: You called me to hear your views. Please tell me what you have to say. Or you may please ask me some questions and I shall answer.
GANDHI: I understand that you have got some grievances against me and the Congress. I may tell you that I have been thinking over the problem of Untouchables ever since my school days--when you were not even born. You may perhaps be knowing what enormous amount of efforts I had put in to incorporate this problem in the programme of the Congress and make it a plank of the Congress platform. The Congress leaders opposed it on the plea that it was a religious and social question and as such it should not be mixed with political ones. This is not all. The Congress has spent not less than rupees twenty lakhs on the uplift of the Untouchables. And it is really surprising that men like you should offer opposition to me and to the Congress. If you have to say anything to justify your stand, you are free to do so.
AMBEDKAR: It is true, Mahatmaji, that you started to think about the problem of Untouchables before I was born. All old and elderly persons always like to emphasize the point of age. It is also true that because of you the Congress Party gave recognition to the problem. But let me tell you frankly that Congress did nothing beyond giving formal recognition to this problem. You say the Congress spent more than rupees twenty lakhs on the uplift of the Untouchables. I say it was all waste. With such a backing I could have effected an astounding change in the outlook and economic conditions of my people. And in that event it would have been imperative for you to see me long before. But I tell you that the Congress is not sincere about its professions. Had it been sincere, it would have surely made the removal of untouchability a condition, like the wearing of khaddar, for becoming a member of the Congress. No person who did not employ untouchable women or men in his house, or rear up an untouchable student, or take food at home with an untouchable student at least once a week, should have been allowed to be a member of the Congress. Had there been such a condition, you could have avoided the ridiculous sight where the President of the District Congress Committee was seen opposing the temple entry of the Untouchables!
You might say that Congress wanted [=lacked] strength, and therefore it was unwise to lay down such a condition. Then my point is that Congress cares more for strength than for principles. This is my charge against you and the Congress. You say the British Government does not show a change of heart. I also say that the Hindus have not shown a change of heart in regard to our problem, and so long as they remain adamant, we would believe neither the Congress nor the Hindus. We believe in self-help and self-respect. We are not prepared to have faith in great leaders and Mahatmas. Let me be brutally frank about it. History tells that Mahatmas, like fleeting phantoms, raise dust, but raise no level. Why should the congressmen oppose our movement and dub me a traitor?
Gandhiji, I have no homeland.
GANDHI: You have got a homeland, and from the reports that have reached me of your work at the Round Table Conference, I know you are a patriot of sterling worth.
AMBEDKAR: You say I have got a homeland, but still I repeat that I am without it. How can I call this land my own homeland and this religion my own, wherein we are treated worse than cats and dogs, wherein we cannot get water to drink? No self-respecting Untouchable worth the name will be proud of this land. The injustice and sufferings inflicted upon us by this land are so enormous that if knowingly or unknowingly we fall a prey to disloyalty to this country, the responsibility for that act would be solely hers. I do not feel sorry for being branded as a traitor; for the responsibilities of our action lie with the land that dubs me a traitor. If at all I have rendered any national service as you say, helpful or beneficial, to the patriotic cause of this country, it is due to my unsullied conscience and not due to any patriotic feelings in me. If in my endeavour to secure human rights for my people, who have been trampled upon in this country for ages, I do any disservice to this country, it would not be a sin; and if any harm does not come to this country through my action, it may be due to my conscience. Owing to the promptings of my conscience, I have been striving to win human rights for my people without meaning or doing any harm to this country.
Everybody knows that the Muslims and the Sikhs are socially, politically, and economically more advanced than the Untouchables. The first session of the Round Table Conference has given political recognition to the Muslim demands and has recommended political safeguards for them. The Congress has agreed to their demands. The first session has also given recognition to the political rights of the Depressed Classes and has recommended for them political safeguards and adequate representation. According to us that is beneficial to the Depressed Classes. What is your opinion?
GANDHI: I am against the political separation of the Untouchables from the Hindus. That would be absolutely suicidal.
AMBEDKAR: I thank you for your frank opinion. It is good that I know now where we stand as regards this vital problem. I take leave of you.
Fr Chandi Sinnathurai is a peasant-priest. This piece is written on the day of celebration of the 200th year Anniversary of the abolishment of Trans-Atlantic slave trade.
NOTE:
[1] THE MEETING BETWEEN GANDHI AND AMBEDKAR ON AUGUST 14, 1931 at Manibhavan, Malabar Hill, Bombay (transcripts of Gandhi's talks were routinely made by his secretaries)
Slightly edited from Dhananjay Keer, Dr. Ambedkar: Life and Mission, Bombay: Popular Prakashan, 1971 [1954], pp. 164-167.
RE:TOUCH ME NOT
by jatin on Apr 23, 2007 10:55 PM Permalink
Ambedkar was highly critical of the practice of untouchability in Indian Muslim Society, lending credence to the view that he was not exclusively against Hindus or Hinduism, but was speaking of reforming social evils. In his acclaimed publication "Pakistan and the Partition of India", he writes that, while Islam speaks of "brotherhood", the practice of slavery and caste discrimination were rampant in Muslim society in South Asia, such as the Ashraf/Ajlaf caste divide and the severe discrimination against the Arzal castes or Dalit Muslim untouchables....
Try hard gandi ..to divide hindu society ..you guys are no Saint.. :)
Historically, the RSS has had several Dalit and Middle-Caste members in their fold, several of whom are in key positions along their rank-and-file[14].Originally, the RSS was formed by members of the upper caste Brahmin community. However, that situation has changed considerably over time. An RSS sarsanghchalak quotes:"All our best attended shakhas are in the poor areas, not in the alienated middle class or rich upper caste suburbs or cities or towns. In simple words, the new Sangh Swayamsevak is mostly a backward caste or Dalit"[4].
The RSS has recently expressed concern over caste-based political and social conflicts, they have urged Hindus to "get rid of this evil at the earliest"[15].Their resolution adopted at a national executive meeting said:
"Hindu society should take all necessary measures to ensure entry and access to every Hindu, irrespective of his caste, to their homes, temples, religious places, public wells, ponds, and other public places..Hindu society will have to get rid of this evil at the earliest.[15]"
The organisation further contends that "caste-based untouchability" and "feelings of high caste and low caste" were the main evils haunting the Hindu society and aims to eradicate Casteism from Indian society. To that end, the R.S.S have tried to reach out to prominent Dalit (traditionally the "Untouchable" Caste) leaders in India, such as poet and leader of the Dalit activist group "Dalit Panthers" Namdeo Dhasal[16]. The Dalit Panthers have been traditional adversaries of the R.S.S and peceived them as an "upper-caste" dominated party. However, negotiations with RSS chief K.Sudarshan on August 2006 led to reconciliations, when Sudarshan declared that the R.S.S categorically rejects all forms of caste discrimination in the organization. He further said:
The Dalits are our own flesh and blood, but because of some ill practices and social evils the practice of untouchability has brought havoc on those who were an integral part and defenders of Dharma. This has to be corrected through our deeds and actions[16]."
Namadeo Dhasal said at the meeting with the RSS, "Yes, I do feel that the fight to eradicate caste has to be fought by Dalits and caste Hindus together carrying forward the tradition of Adi Sankara, which got broken somewhere in between."
Sudarshan then said, "I fully agree with what you have said here today".
In addition, the RSS has advocated for training Dalits and other backward classes to be temple high priests (a position traditionally reserved for Caste Brahmins and denied to lower castes). They argue that the social divisiveness of the Caste system is responsible for the lack of adherence to Hindu values and traditions and reaching out to the lower castes in this manner will be a remedy to the problem[17].
Appealing for social harmony and Hindu brotherhood, the organisation warned the community against the political parties, which it said had been drawing "political benefits" out of casteism and "Inventing caste based new conflicts in the Hindu society for the sake of political benefits [which has] has become a trend of many politicians these days.[15]"
RE:JUDGE YOURSELF WHO ARE TERRORISTS ?????
by Mike Gandhi on Apr 24, 2007 04:45 PM Permalink
THEY ARE TRAITERS. KASHMIR ISSUE IS PENDING IN UN. THESE HINDUS SHOULD FIGHT TOGATHER WITH MUSLIM FOR INDEPENDENT KASHMIR. BUT THEY ARE COWARD AND TRAITERS. THE INDIAN ARMY CANNOT FIGHT WITH KASHMIRI MILITANTS THEN THEY ARE KILLING AND MURDERING INNOCENT PEOPLE.
RE:KASHMIR KI KALI
by jatin on Apr 23, 2007 10:48 PM Permalink
Yes ..let there be vote on kashmir ,,after change in demographic situation where majority of hindusa are driven out of kashmir .. now let there be vote ... as predicted muslim will ask for seprate kashmir as islamic state or migh merge with pakisan ....
Than what remains for you is India... As per earlier post by like minded jihadis u have predicted that by 2020 india will have major muslim population ... then what u can do is make India as islamic country .. by killing or driving us out ,,, Good Plan ,..
