Thousand years ago they came for Gandhara and Afghanistan, we said take it Thousand years later they said they want Pakistan, we said take it Thousand and fifty years later they said they want Bangladesh we said take it Thousand and ninety years later they said we will impose sharia in Kashmir we said do it What next?
RE:Slightly off topic
by Satyambada Anand on Feb 17, 2007 10:45 AM Permalink
Dear VH hope not VHP This is how false hood is propagated by your friends and create animosity in society. What was done in Kashmir was not imposition of Sharia law rather Muslim Personal law which is applicable to whole of India was not implemented in Kashmir due to Art 370 special status of Kashmir provision . What has been done now that MPL will also be implemented in Kashmir like rest of India. They have braught Kashmir more closer to India. Please dont spread false hood
RE:Slightly off topic
by huzefa hakimi on Feb 17, 2007 09:38 AM Permalink
^correction: - kings came from PErsia not Gandhar or Afhgan. The same land who had ties with Chandra Gupt Maurya and other great kings. Research some more on Chandra Lekha for more.
- Before muslims came there was nothing like India or united India. India was more like land archipelago's of tiny tiny Hindu kingdom more of based to rule on caste system. Aiyashis of kings can easily be found in literatures written by Hindu scholastis themselves
- At time of Mughals most of the India came under rule known as Mughal Empire. Mughals which are today called by unthankfull people as invaders brought to India tradition of clothes, architecture and many other things. Invaders are one who come, loot and go away. Not the one, who conquers and settle their.
- First war of independence fought under Mughal empire, though not capable. But it definetly shows the influence of Mughal banner on Indian public of that time, which still had Hindu majority at that time.
- Bangladesh was part of Pakistan and not independent India
- Next you becoming a gentleman and stop the hypocrate talks around :)
RE:RE:Slightly off topic
by Subramanian P on Feb 17, 2007 10:53 AM Permalink
u r hypocrate. don't justify the atrocities committed by Muslim kings. it is well known fact that muslims are intolerant and averse to all other religions.
what u have to say about the plight of Kashmiri pandits who were butchered, driven out by muslims. all of u go and settle in Pak, Afgan or any other muslim country and do what ever u like.
Hitler, German himself is considered a villan in Germany. There are no monuments to glorify him....Denying the HOLOCAUST is a crime in Europe...even to the extent of banning the swastika, the symbol used by the Nazis.... Here in India, we have so many morons trying to glorify Aurangzeb, etc.... The sickularists raise their voice over Gujrat riots...but the Godhra train or Kashmir genocide is conveniently forgotten... Criticizing the British or the west is a "free for all hobby"....but not the Muslim invaders...?
RE:Difference between India and Germany
by vijay parasar on Feb 17, 2007 10:46 AM Permalink
u need guts to critcize the muslim invaders. in fact as per congress n commies muslim invders were very human /art loving people and they belived in "AHIMSA"
India (Hindus) has always at the receiving end...because of the "chalta hai" attitude ingrained in polytheism....Just think of it.... There are a number of gods / goddesses in Hnduism...so one or two more from Islam or Christianity....get accomodated willingly or cunningly or forcibly....But in monothesitic religions there is only GOD or only one truth...and they stick to it...everything else is false or abhorrent...NO CHALTA HAI....
Even now with still some 80% Hindus left in India, we have had muslim appeasing governments for almost 55 years since independance...How could this happen? Because of the spineless, cunning, greedy, cowards called Hindus...Defending Islam or sickularism is a fashion among Hindus....but not vice versa
RE:the chalta hai theory
by vijay parasar on Feb 17, 2007 10:53 AM Permalink
gr8 victor!!!! U has pointed the real problem hinus are facing. the time has come and all hinus come and take a stock from the past and present and we welcome all the true secular people from all religion to make our country great. keep it up and keep posting.
RE:RE:Take action
by Satyambada Anand on Feb 17, 2007 10:57 AM Permalink
Yes it appears Hindu are very peaceful people. See Gujrat how they converted an accidental train fire in to a monsterous state sponsored pogrom and riot with no compensation till date. see how innocent children in Nithari were brutalised and killed not by muslims certainly!How the agriculture girls student of Dharmapuri or Graham Steins and his son in Orissa were burnt alive inside the vehicle by Hindu mobs.Hindus could not live peacefully with Buddhist and annihilated and wiped them out of India.They converted buddist and jains forcibly and their temples to Hindu temples.They killed Sikhs also in Golden Temple. ThatHindus are peaceloving is only Myth. and bitter truth. Bigots of all religions are bad
RE:Take action
by vijay parasar on Feb 17, 2007 10:55 AM Permalink
i am ready and lets make a blog where we can share our thoughts and can implement our thoughts into reality.
This article only reflects the authors view about aurangzeb as taught in Hindu fundamentalists. This is by and large an incomplete article about Aurangzebs Life. Another antimuslim article from Rediff. God. Please bless rediff writers. The writers and to a large extent the messages so much reflect the mean mentality , fundamentalism and hatred in these people. I am glad i a a muslim and not one of these haters.
RE:Sadly incomplete
by Cyber hinwa on Feb 17, 2007 09:22 AM Permalink
ownload the folling books in pdf form and tell me what you think 1.http://rapidshare.com/files/921112/MUSLIM__TERRORISM.pdf.html
RE:Sadly incomplete
by ad on Feb 17, 2007 09:51 AM Permalink
your ancestors were tortured and converted to islam.. you are trying to defend the very same faith...??? open your eyes....
RE:Sadly incomplete
by Nikhil Deo on Feb 17, 2007 09:30 AM Permalink
One more Muslim who sadly denies to understand that he also is one of those whose ancestors were brutally tortured by fanatic muslims and who lost their courage and gave up their faith. 'Converts and more Staunch' says a proverb which is resounded by this comment of Shri. Mohammad Ali. This is partly because of Hindus - like Pt Nehru and our fellow communist brothers - who because of their education downplay Hinduism; and partly because of aggressive propaganda of semetic islam by fanatics.
I pray to the almighty to excuse this misguided thinker who had a liberal Hindu past a thousand years ago and is now one of those narrow minded fanatics who denies to see the light! I also pray the god to teach Hindus to know their Dharma better and save this most liberal faith on the earth. God, please guide them all to a realistic and holistic thinking!!
islam always preaches be faithful to your nation. but in practice religious gurus promotes that "religion is supreme than nation."
no body can deny this fact, thats why law of shariyat is necessary in islam rather than democracy. jihad is another face of showing religion is supreme than nation. all indian just want to assure themselves, in case muslim need to choose between india or islam, they will choose india over islam. thats all about hindu muslim tension is, otherwise who is bothered about each others religion and faiths.
RE:RE:are musilm patriotic ?
by neeraj jain on Feb 17, 2007 06:02 AM Permalink
if people are willing to live togather as indian and then muslim. why you want to kill them. dont you want to tell your generations that there was hindus in aurangzebs army and muslims in shivaji army. believe in one nation and democracy and share the wealth.otherwise ....
RE:are musilm patriotic ?
by neeraj jain on Feb 17, 2007 05:25 AM Permalink
president APJ kalam has shown that he has faith in democracy and thats all about them. only few people are spreading that there should be "law of shriyat" in india, the same way hindu say "Ramrajya". till we all faithful to our nation we should have no problem singing vande matram. it belongs to nation not to religion. so everyone need to show patriotism at all levels.
Aurangzeb was the most divisive Mughal Emperor. No-one was as cruel before him or after him in the Mughal Dynasty. In fact, even the Hindu kings supported Bahadur Shah Zafar when he had virtually no power left. It is due to his (Aurangzeb's) cruelty that the Maratha and Sikh empires arose.
He personally oversaw the torture of Sambhaji Maharaj, the maratha king. He tried his best to get him converted to Islam, which was the most perverted use of power. This is a documented fact and not contended by any historian.
He did not spare his brother, Dara Shikoh - the rightful heir of the empire or even the Sikhs.
He was intelligent enough to cultivate personal ties with the Rajputs as they provided him with strong manpower. Rajputs had been serving the Mughals for generations, but despite that there were several open rebellions against Aurangzeb throughout India. He was the main cause of the destruction of the Mughal empire.
He could not carry out the destruction of all the temples simply because he didn't have the means to do so and doing so would have caused an open rebellions, so his destructions were systematic.
Akbar is praised because his subjects were relatively happy and were allowed to pursue their religios beliefs without hindrance.
I have never found myself agreeing with Mr. Gautier, but on this matter I completely stand by him.
To agree with the philosophy of Aurangzeb would be to agree with a Tyrant and any one who praises him for any reason whatsoever is an enemy of secularism.
RE:Come on argue, dont run away by hitting abuse button
by narmi deys on Feb 17, 2007 04:56 AM Permalink
WAS ISLAM SPREAD BY THE SWORD?
How can Islam be called the religion of peace when it was spread by the sword?
Answer:
It is a common complaint among some non-Muslims that Islam would not have millions of adherents all over the world, if it had not been spread by the use of force. The following points will make it clear, that far from being spread by the sword, it was the inherent force of truth, reason and logic that was responsible for the rapid spread of Islam.
1. Islam means peace.
Islam comes from the root word %u2018salaam%u2019, which means peace. It also means submitting one%u2019s will to Allah (swt). Thus Islam is a religion of peace, which is acquired by submitting one%u2019s will to the will of the Supreme Creator, Allah (swt).
2. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace.
Each and every human being in this world is not in favour of maintaining peace and harmony. There are many, who would disrupt it for their own vested interests. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace. It is precisely for this reason that we have the police who use force against criminals and anti-social elements to maintain peace in the country. Islam promotes peace. At the same time, Islam exhorts it followers to fight where there is oppression. The fight against oppression may, at times, require the use of force. In Islam force can only be used to promote peace and justice.
3. Opinion of historian De Lacy O%u2019Leary.
The best reply to the misconception that Islam was spread by the sword is given by the noted historian De Lacy O%u2019Leary in the book "Islam at the cross road" (Page 8):
"History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated."
4. Muslims ruled Spain for 800 years.
Muslims ruled Spain for about 800 years. The Muslims in Spain never used the sword to force the people to convert. Later the Christian Crusaders came to Spain and wiped out the Muslims. There was not a single Muslim in Spain who could openly give the adhan, that is the call for prayers.
5. 14 million Arabs are Coptic Christians.
Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled. Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians i.e. Christians since generations. If the Muslims had used the sword there would not have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian.
6. More than 80% non-Muslims in India.
The Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness today that Islam was not spread by the sword.
7. Indonesia and Malaysia.
Indonesia is a country that has the maximum number of Muslims in the world. The majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims. May one ask, "Which Muslim army went to Indonesia and Malaysia?"
8. East Coast of Africa.
Similarly, Islam has spread rapidly on the East Coast of Africa. One may again ask, if Islam was spread by the sword, "Which Muslim army went to the East Coast of Africa?"
9. Thomas Carlyle.
The famous historian, Thomas Carlyle, in his book "Heroes and Hero worship", refers to this misconception about the spread of Islam: "The sword indeed, but where will you get your sword? Every new opinion, at its starting is precisely in a minority of one. In one man%u2019s head alone. There it dwells as yet. One man alone of the whole world believes it, there is one man against all men. That he takes a sword and try to propagate with that, will do little for him. You must get your sword! On the whole, a thing will propagate itself as it can."
10. No compulsion in religion.
With which sword was Islam spread? Even if Muslims had it they could not use it to spread Islam because the Qur%u2019an says in the following verse:
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error" [Al-Qur%u2019an 2:256]
11. Sword of the Intellect.
It is the sword of intellect. The sword that conquers the hearts and minds of people. The Qur%u2019an says in Surah Nahl, chapter 16 verse 125:
"Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious." [Al-Qur%u2019an 16:125]
12. Increase in the world religions from 1934 to 1984.
An article in Reader%u2019s Digest %u2018Almanac%u2019, year book 1986, gave the statistics of the increase of percentage of the major religions of the world in half a century from 1934 to 1984. This article also appeared in %u2018The Plain Truth%u2019 magazine. At the top was Islam, which increased by 235%, and Christianity had increased only by 47%. May one ask, which war took place in this century which converted millions of people to Islam?
13. Islam is the fastest growing religion in America and Europe.
Today the fastest growing religion in America is Islam. The fastest growing religion in Europe in Islam. Which sword is forcing people in the West to accept Islam in such large numbers?
RE:Come on argue, dont run away by hitting abuse button
by Victor Martins on Feb 17, 2007 05:53 AM Permalink
India (Hindus) has always at the receiving end...because of the "chalta hai" attitude ingrained in polytheism....Just think of it.... There are a number of gods / goddesses in Hnduism...so one or two more from Islam or Christianity....get accomodated willingly or cunningly or forcibly....But in monothesitic religions there is only GOD or only one truth...and they stick to it...everything else is false or abhorrent...NO CHALTA HAI....
Even now with still some 80% Hindus left in India, we have had muslim appeasing governments for almost 55 years since independance...How could this happen? Because of the spineless, cunning, greedy, cowards called Hindus...Defending Islam or sickularism is a fashion among Hindus....but not vice versa...
RE:Come on argue, dont run away by hitting abuse button
by narmi deys on Feb 17, 2007 04:49 AM Permalink
Mr.VH as said earlier please leave RSS mentality. It's gud 4 u. fyi...I've pls find below some article regarding how islam spread and whether muslim rules were really brutal. I may agree some rulers may be brutal. it's not typical of muslim rules. Dictator do not have religion. He could be anybody.
WAS ISLAM SPREAD BY THE SWORD?
How can Islam be called the religion of peace when it was spread by the sword?
Answer:
It is a common complaint among some non-Muslims that Islam would not have millions of adherents all over the world, if it had not been spread by the use of force. The following points will make it clear, that far from being spread by the sword, it was the inherent force of truth, reason and logic that was responsible for the rapid spread of Islam.
1. Islam means peace.
Islam comes from the root word %u2018salaam%u2019, which means peace. It also means submitting one%u2019s will to Allah (swt). Thus Islam is a religion of peace, which is acquired by submitting one%u2019s will to the will of the Supreme Creator, Allah (swt).
2. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace.
Each and every human being in this world is not in favour of maintaining peace and harmony. There are many, who would disrupt it for their own vested interests. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace. It is precisely for this reason that we have the police who use force against criminals and anti-social elements to maintain peace in the country. Islam promotes peace. At the same time, Islam exhorts it followers to fight where there is oppression. The fight against oppression may, at times, require the use of force. In Islam force can only be used to promote peace and justice.
3. Opinion of historian De Lacy O%u2019Leary.
The best reply to the misconception that Islam was spread by the sword is given by the noted historian De Lacy O%u2019Leary in the book "Islam at the cross road" (Page 8):
"History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated."
4. Muslims ruled Spain for 800 years.
Muslims ruled Spain for about 800 years. The Muslims in Spain never used the sword to force the people to convert. Later the Christian Crusaders came to Spain and wiped out the Muslims. There was not a single Muslim in Spain who could openly give the adhan, that is the call for prayers.
5. 14 million Arabs are Coptic Christians.
Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled. Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians i.e. Christians since generations. If the Muslims had used the sword there would not have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian.
6. More than 80% non-Muslims in India.
The Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness today that Islam was not spread by the sword.
7. Indonesia and Malaysia.
Indonesia is a country that has the maximum number of Muslims in the world. The majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims. May one ask, "Which Muslim army went to Indonesia and Malaysia?"
8. East Coast of Africa.
Similarly, Islam has spread rapidly on the East Coast of Africa. One may again ask, if Islam was spread by the sword, "Which Muslim army went to the East Coast of Africa?"
9. Thomas Carlyle.
The famous historian, Thomas Carlyle, in his book "Heroes and Hero worship", refers to this misconception about the spread of Islam: "The sword indeed, but where will you get your sword? Every new opinion, at its starting is precisely in a minority of one. In one man%u2019s head alone. There it dwells as yet. One man alone of the whole world believes it, there is one man against all men. That he takes a sword and try to propagate with that, will do little for him. You must get your sword! On the whole, a thing will propagate itself as it can."
10. No compulsion in religion.
With which sword was Islam spread? Even if Muslims had it they could not use it to spread Islam because the Qur%u2019an says in the following verse:
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error" [Al-Qur%u2019an 2:256]
11. Sword of the Intellect.
It is the sword of intellect. The sword that conquers the hearts and minds of people. The Qur%u2019an says in Surah Nahl, chapter 16 verse 125:
"Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious." [Al-Qur%u2019an 16:125]
12. Increase in the world religions from 1934 to 1984.
An article in Reader%u2019s Digest %u2018Almanac%u2019, year book 1986, gave the statistics of the increase of percentage of the major religions of the world in half a century from 1934 to 1984. This article also appeared in %u2018The Plain Truth%u2019 magazine. At the top was Islam, which increased by 235%, and Christianity had increased only by 47%. May one ask, which war took place in this century which converted millions of people to Islam?
13. Islam is the fastest growing religion in America and Europe.
Today the fastest growing religion in America is Islam. The fastest growing religion in Europe in Islam. Which sword is forcing people in the West to accept Islam in such large numbers?
RE:RE:Come on argue, dont run away by hitting abuse button
by neeraj jain on Feb 17, 2007 05:09 AM Permalink
dear friend wharever you have written is fine, but i was shocked by this confession- "being a muslim, spreading islam is my obligation not a choice" i m not against any religion but there should be no enchroachment on other religion. if you demand for practice of any religion in any means, that means respect for all the religion. that is not visible with islam. "jihad and kafir" --litral meanings are totally different than what is been preached today.
