We are the reason for discovery of AMERICA. Columbus set to find a sea route to India, this why native americans are today called Red Indians. All the colonials power craved to find sea routes to rich lands of India in the 14th century. We have never bothered to invade and loot others to become rich, this why some many BARBARIC fellows came and looted the country at will.
RE:great land -- Bharat
by anita r on Feb 18, 2007 12:29 AM Permalink
Dear mr. Nagesh, the reason the Hindu kings did not travel to far off lands was because of the caste-system. It was believed that if a Hindu crossed the sea or the ocean he would lose his caste. That is why it was the Europeans who discovered far flung lands and not Indians. Simple case of superstition.
RE:RE:great land -- Bharat
by Nagesh on Feb 18, 2007 04:20 AM Permalink
What you wrote is only half truth. There are several tamil/hindu kings who ruled Indonesia, Malaysia,Cambodia .Please check your facts. They have travelled by sea. India actively traded for several centuries with far off nations everything thru sea. DON'T BE TOO EAGER TO DEGRADE YOUR OWN HERIAGE
We are the reason for discovery of AMERICA. Columbus set to find a sea route to India, this why native americans are today called Red Indians. All the colonials power craved to find sea routes to rich lands of India in the 14th century. We have never bothered to invade and loot others to become rich, this why some many BARBARIC fellows came and looted the country at will.
RE:Greatland -- Bharat
by anita r on Feb 18, 2007 02:44 AM Permalink
Dear mr. Nagesh, the reason the Hindu kings did not travel to far off lands was because of the caste-system. It was believed that if a Hindu crossed the sea or the ocean he would lose his caste. That is why it was the Europeans who discovered far flung lands and not Indians. Simple case of superstition.
RE:RE:Greatland -- Bharat
by Nagesh on Feb 18, 2007 04:23 AM Permalink
What you wrote is only half truth. There are several tamil/hindu kings who ruled Indonesia, Malaysia,Cambodia .Please check your facts. They have travelled by sea. India actively traded for several centuries with far off nations everything thru sea. DON'T BE TOO EAGER TO DEGRADE YOUR OWN HERIAGE
It should be known that history did not start with Aurangzeb nor ende with him . Who brought the muslims for the first time to India ???
Who served under them for the ulterior motives ??? Who had to make the maximum sacrifices for their ouster ???? The Name should be spelt as " Shree Guru Teg Bahadur Sahib " and certainly not taken in the same breath as Dara Shikoh .
If my words seem harsh , then close your eyes for just 3 minutes and try to visualize those scenes of HISTORY .!!!!!!
RE:great land Bharat
by furquan choudhry on Feb 17, 2007 09:54 PM Permalink
Don't speak when you don't know the truth. Western Europe was pissed off by the growing strength of Muslims. With the Fall of Constantinople to the Muslims in 1453,in search of their grandma's stories about a rich India, On May 01, 1486, Colombus was financed by the Queen Isabella of Spain herself, to beg some aid from India. And history pays witness that all the wealth india claimed was a name pronounced by the treasures of Hyderabad, famous as Golkonda sultanate ruled by the qutib shahis at that time,( during the Qutb Shahi reign Golconda became one of the leading markets in the world for diamonds, pearls, steel, arms, and also printed fabric) again lead by muslims. Aurangzeb destroyed 'n' number of temples, atleast this should wake you up, idol worship is prohibited even in your books.Its Islam for which this very earth is created, and all other religions paved way for. Its high time embrace Islam before you contrite of being an non-Muslim Indian.
RE:RE:great land Bharat
by anita r on Feb 18, 2007 02:44 AM Permalink
Dear mr. Nagesh,
the reason the Hindu kings did not travel to far off lands was because of the caste-system. It was believed that if a Hindu crossed the sea or the ocean he would lose his caste. That is why it was the Europeans who discovered far flung lands and not Indians. Simple case of superstition.
We are the richest country up until the last few centuries. We have given birth to Sankaya, Ayurveda(medicine),Yoga, Tantra, Vedas, Upanishads In this great land born -- Buddhism the greatest benefactor of Humanity. Billions of people in China, Japan, Korea, South East Asia follow it to this day. This going to be the future .
RE:cowards over look history
by sanjeev dhiman on Feb 17, 2007 09:19 PM Permalink
harpal,you are a true hindu maniac (read rss-talibani).harpal,you are a true hindu maniac (read rss-talibani).its better you try to reread indian freedom struggle especially during the first war of independence 1857.you will then know that this idiotic hindu-muslim communal divide is the product of british imperialism and rss traitors---in order to contain the indian communists and takeover by netaji9with stalin's support).it's no use to talk about and rake up aurangzeb issues.even hindu kings were more brutal and monstrous. and i am a hindu a pucca brahmin(don't get a wrong idea that i am a christian or an islamic fanatic.
RE:RE:cowards over look history
by chaitanya kumar on Feb 17, 2007 10:54 PM Permalink
you are a pucca commie. that is what you are. communism is a dead ideology and in India you guys are here to misrepresent facts. But people are learning facts. More technology will help them. It can't be hidden for long through devious distortions in school books. People are learning.
Romila wrote - Yet, Percival Spear, co-author with Romila Thapar of the prestigious A History of India (Penguin), writes: 'Aurangzeb's supposed intolerance is little more than a hostile legend based on isolated acts such as the erection of a mosque on a temple site in Benares.' L'histoire de l'Inde moderne (Fayard), the French equivalent of Percival Spear's history of India, praises Aurangzeb and says, 'He has been maligned by Hindu fundamentalists'. Quote :
Ans :- she is a coward and belongs to the non warrior race of Punjabis.her fore father never fought and she is giving a false ruse .
Francois Gautier wrote :- May the Spirit of Dara Shikoh come back to India and bring back Islam to a more tolerant human face.
Ans :- A children dream .The benign sufi form of Islam is a disguise to get over difficult and hostile period as today. Islam reverts to its true color moment it gets its first opportunity as in 1947 massacre.
now to peep into ISlamic agenda Since its inception Islam in ancient Arabia in the 7th century it had a band of small follower who nearly got wiped out in early days .
Persecution of the Muslims started late in the fourth year of the mission, after Muhammad had made his call public. Muhammad had already known that the Negus (title of the king of Abyssinia [Ethopia]) was a fair Christian ruler who would not wrong any of his subordinates, so he permitted some of his followers to seek asylum in Abyssinia. In Rajab of the fifth year of prophet hood, a group of 12 men and 4 women left for Abyssinia. Among the emigrants were Uthman ibn Affan and his wife Ruqayyah (the daughter of the Prophet) and thus Islam represented by this small band was saved from extinction by a Christian King. )
Today they have converted 52 countries in last 1300 years .
1. 10.4 million Muslims in Canada and the United States 2. 2.2 million Muslims in Latin and Central America 3. 10.0 million Muslims in the European Union plus Bosnia-Herzegovina and Albania 4. few or none in Eastern Europe, Norway 5. 62.4 million Muslims in Turkey 6. 284.4 million Muslims in the Arab League including Iraq (with about 15 million Shia, 60% of the population) 7. 254.0 Muslims in Sub-Saharan Africa 8. 65.4 million Muslims (90% Shia) in Iran 9. 48.5 million Muslims in Central Asia - in Azerbaijan, Uzebekistan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan - formerly republics of the Soviet Union. 10. 26.7 million Muslims in Russia 11. 22.7 million Muslims in Afghanistan 12. 230.0 million Muslims in Pakistan and Bangladesh 13. 133.3 million Muslims in India - the world's largest minority population 14. 133.1 million Muslims in China - a close second 15. 196.3 million Muslims in Indonesia 16. 30.0 million Muslims in the rest of South-East Asia, especially Malaysia 17. few or none in Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Mongolia, or the South Pacific
1.5 billion people total
From whom did they take there land:--
%u2022 from Christains like Egypt
%u2022 from Jews like Mecca and Medina
%u2022 from Buddhist like Afghanistan
%u2022 from Sikhs/ hindus : the land of Punjab/Sind / Baluchistan / kashmir:
I will not be surprised if
1. UK 2. France 3. ; India states like Uttar pardesh , Assam and Bengal turn Islamic
Is not there agenda clear from this where they are heading toward an Islamic India Love Hps
RE:cowards ignore history
by Indian Muslim on Feb 17, 2007 09:35 PM Permalink
Oh hello! your take the land theory is rubbish. Muslims are not a ethnic tribe or race or anything. If your brother becomes muslim , it doesnt mean he 'came' from somwhere else. The equation is simple. India is my country and Islam is my religion. For you India is your country and Hinduism is your religion. CLear now? Stop your hatred.
RE:RE:cowards ignore history
by chaitanya kumar on Feb 18, 2007 12:10 AM Permalink
Well Indian Muslim, you seem to talk some sense. You are Indian. You are born here. Your ancestors most probably(90 - 95%) were here for millenia unless your roots are from Turkey, Arab deserts or Central Asia. Most of the Indian Muslims were converts and you should learn how it was done. There was Jazia tax imposed on people who are non-muslims, so many converted. Others by forceful means. The lower castes who converted out of new found "spiritual enlightenment" were very rare if not for the sufi based work here and there. The religion was imposed by forced in a sense that the emperors and their courts were filled with Islamic men who were earlier making their way up the ranks of tribal armies in Persia or Central Asia. I use the tribal again to remind the barbaric spirit. There was a brutal sword at work to impose ideologies. In any case, that's not the issue here. It's just to convey that everything is not sweet about Islam. Hindus have suffered. The point is you are most probably of Indic origin. Your roots are based here. India is a nation. And it's very diverse at that. People got to integrate and appreciate the values of central spirit that drives the nation. You got to claim the universal knowledge that comes with the scriptures preceding the times your ancestors converted. Come and claim them as your own. You can't run away from your own History. That would be bigoted. They name missiles in Pakistan in the name of Ghori, and the guy is a savage brute who dstroyed many Hindu temples and butchered Hindus. Why should they do that? Hindu manjority India is not telling that Muslim is a swine on Earth when there are many good people. India treats you much better dude. In UK, USA the wrath of majority is starting to gather against Islam due to some fundamentalist freaks who bomb towers by blowing themselves. In India Hindus have seen more than that from Islam and as i write this, some guy provocated by some jehadi dude is trying to blow himself somewhere in India in the name of Jehad or Quran or whatever it is. Many Hindus are dying along the border and in the center of the nation due to these nuts. Coming to Hindutva, which is the driving theme of Hindu nationalists, most of the details you read about it are distorted by some dude for some reasons which happens only in India. History gets distorted. People are learning anyway, they are referring sources. The point is, Hindutva has a place for Indian Muslim, Christian just because you guys are our blood brothers. You have been here since immemorial times. It just wants you to reform to a Indic guy. Islam will be there and national spirit will be preserved. For Arabs, Islam drives them and their Arabian brethern spirit does more than that. You are an Indian. You should be driven by Indian spirit essentially more than anything. You can refer sources to learn facts. I will not give you any links as i am not here to run any propaganda. Just refer sources using your wisdom. Islam has a long way to go as a religion BTW. Basic reforms have not been given a concrete thoughts. Hinduism is reforming by the day.
RE:cowards ignore history
by chaitanya kumar on Feb 17, 2007 09:02 PM Permalink
"she is a coward and belongs to the non warrior race of Punjabis"..this shows your casteist attitude very blatantly. If you want to make a point, don't attack Hinduism. VHP, RSS and others wants to reduce the differences between Hindus and their castes, so that they can unite. That last thing Hindus in India want is casteist attitude in open forums like this. Romila Thapar is Marxist anti-national. You are true. But don't bring in caste. Leave out Hinduism. Just an advice. Thanks. Great post BTW. So many Muslims in China.
RE:RE:cowards ignore history
by sanjeev dhiman on Feb 17, 2007 09:33 PM Permalink
chaitanya,its all right if you go on attacking aurangzeb on communal lines as its your duty.but how dare you claim that romila thapar is an anti-national just because she is a marxist???it appears just for the sake of apposing marxist ideology you are trying to label all communists as anti-nationals.if tat is true then bhagat singh,chandrasekhar azad are all anti-nationals!!! indian communist party is there since 1920(long before your jansangh).so try to tread carefully.communists can and have the power to teach nationalism.its not the other way round. moreover mere anti-communist rhetoric has no mean.we the indian communists can finish off the hindu communalists lifelong.with rahul gandhi as the next PM(with cpim support),this dream will come true.
RE:RE:RE:cowards ignore history
by chaitanya kumar on Feb 17, 2007 10:40 PM Permalink
yeah right, you self-hating Hindu. Use your communism in China and Russia. Don't be slaves of your masters there. If you want to respect India, then stop acting like pawns. You want to defeat Hinduism, then start something indigenous here. Not the braindead communism. World is changing. What communism are you talkin about? China even doesn't follow those principles by book anymore.
RE:RE:cowards ignore history
by arvind singh on Feb 17, 2007 09:26 PM Permalink
Hi, i think every body is ravcist in india. how can a person apraise VHP and RSS.? even if whole world is converted in to islam, will it make any diference ? no and i firmly think no. in any civilisation some persons think they are god gifted, elite classes and others are backwards. and this will remain. so what is the problem i can not understand. we should think that conversion will not make any difference to anybody. iran and iraq fought for one decade. france and british also fought for many years. in INDIA we can see even the great war of MAHABHARAT was fought among the persons of same region. it is the human charector which maters adn not the religion. it is civilisation which matters and not the boundaries of countries.
i think we should come out of this thinkiing that we believe in GOD and still we can change the world by discrimination.
neither did changez khan survive, nor did hitler. every body has to die at some point of time. till then we can live peacefully. we should spread love and not hatred.
RE:RE:RE:cowards ignore history
by chaitanya kumar on Feb 17, 2007 09:55 PM Permalink
What happens when people get coverted to Islam is your question. We have Pakistan and Bangladesh along the borders who follow strict shariah codes and treat the minorities as subhumans and the humanrights record are worth a keen observation. Millions of them were raped and butchered and in India facts of that nature are not publicized. Coming to other Islamic Nations, they again treat minorities as scum. Dis enfrachised and isolated from many thoughts of modern world. All because they want to stick to Islamic codes and believe it as the truth as practiced in Arabian deserts fourteen hundred years ago. Mohammed had to deal with tribal people and unite them, which was revolutionary at the time and he did what Mao did in China. Cultural revolution and killing of people based on ideology. The Muslims of the subsequent Caliphate era did not reform the religion and it fell in some vested interests to make sure the people are following regressive codes. The genocide of Islamic hordes invading and crossing Sindh and Indus river and to the Ganges down the Brahmaputra and down to the Narmada, to the Godavari has witnessed the largest genocide ever by mankind. You seem to have a Hindu name. Learn some History. Refer various sources you can gather. They don't teach these things in your school books where Marxist ideology and suppresion and denigration of Hinduism is their culture. I can talk about Gandhi and the peaceful ideology too, it's easy. About Gandhi, the guy's background is not clearly taught either. Refer sources again. His Khilafat support has united Muslims and what you witness about collective votebank politics comes from that time and Hindus supported it then but Hindus themselves are largely divided, thus making their own Bharat weak. Times have changed and India is in the center and Islamic nations around. What it means to be a Hindu has changed too. I used to hate the RSS/VHP earlier. Not now. They are here to protect you. They make some mistakes, but their good things are brought to light by the "mainstream" media which is being run by the psuedo-secular brigade. Simly said, be a Hindu man. Don't talk nonsense like the way you posted above.
RE:RE:RE:RE:cowards ignore history
by Indian Muslim on Feb 17, 2007 10:41 PM Permalink
your whole logic is flawed!!! Hatred all the way. RSS/VHP protects you from whom and from what exactly?
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:cowards ignore history
by chaitanya kumar on Feb 17, 2007 11:04 PM Permalink
It unites Hindus. Protecting is a part of the matter. Where is it flawed? can you explain? Why shouldn't Hindus unite in India when India is a nation because of Hinduism! Reflect dude. Well you feel it's my hatred ... but Bulldozing Islam marches and sqeezes as_ses if people don't maintain a bulwark. It marches ahead and Hindus will get crushed in their own ONLY homeland. We have nowhere else to go dude. Islam teaches so much hatred. Some of Hindus have to sacrifice lives and change their attitudes to help these Hindu nationalists to see India remains united or India will run into toilet due to vote-bank politics. Maybe you are a little "moderate" Muslim, and that you are mostly because you live in India. But mmost Muslims around the world have their issues. Hinduism is a religion and you have to see it in a global context. Afterall, people are not implementing Saudi Arabia and Vatican City codes in India. If Hindus do it, you will call it Satan. You are already calling Modi as Hitler. That's funny when Islam has killing millions upon millions of Hindus. Modi's involvement was acquitted by the courts. You can make the noise.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:cowards ignore history
by Indian Muslim on Feb 17, 2007 11:44 PM Permalink
To Chaitanya. I have been patriotic all my life. Patriotism is towards a country and belief is towards a religion. I ahve always seperated the two.
IF you say , you need RSS/VHP to protect you, then What muslim muslims look for ?
For what I know, Muslims would not want to bring their own wrath by colluding with non-indian muslims. What for ? To be called a terrorist at the drop of a hat?
Saudi Arabia as a nation does not have a history of more than 100 years.
And what codes are you talking about ?
I am patriotic to India, but just as you wouldnt want to be called a Muslim, I wouldnt want to be a hindu.
WE have Religion and Region as two seperate words, dont make it ONE!
Who says hindus should not be united. By all means Sir, by all means.
But why do you want to use the hatred for muslim as a tool ? I am against getting exploited that way.
If I correctly believe you. Then I am a political tool for either national parties.
One uses me for getting votes, the other abuses me to get votes. Simple as that!
RE:RE:RE:RE:cowards ignore history
by chaitanya kumar on Feb 17, 2007 10:02 PM Permalink
Yeah, and about Gandhi, it's the wisdom to choose that matters. The guy vouched for non-violence and if you take it for word, it's suicidal. You don't use non-violence against bulldozing ideologies which give a damn about the way you want to make peace with him, when you can't point a gun too. There is a place and time for non-violence when the other party knows the terms of your negotiation and relates with it. I have nothing against Gandhi, he is infact a solid motivated guy, a pan nationalist. But there are errors always. He didn't know the Muslim mind and instead went on appeasing and giving sops to it to cool it down and the process is being continued now by the "secular" brigade who act out of selfish motives. Gandhi was a great man, no doubt about it and i say after learning about many of his faults, which are many BTW. Still the guy had character. You got to give him that. There is a time and place for using his rules and not when you are losing your own rights while doing it.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:cowards ignore history
by chaitanya kumar on Feb 17, 2007 10:06 PM Permalink
A quick point about the "secular" Islamic nations i forgot to mention. Malaysia, Indonesia, Turkey, and smaller states like Bahrain, UAE etc. The thing about "Secularism" in Malyasia, Indonesia and Turkey is that, they are becoming fundamentalist now. In Malaysia people are asked to wear full Burqas by some sections. It was a peaceful nation before. Vociferous support is gaining ground there for Mr. Alqaeda and the King Laden. Turkey is rearing it's head too. About smaller states like UAE, Bahrain etc, they are very small in size and filled with non-arabs and non-muslims of all hues and colours. Get them out of there and you will see the "secularism" of those lands.
