This message is to the Author of the article... It is true what happened in aurangzeb's time was not right but what happened in 84 riots was even 100 times worse can we discuss what lead to that openly ...as a Sikh who understands mughal history well i can say there is a need to discuss what happened in independent india , including the partition and exploitation of relgn by politicians or the role of congress party
RE:84 roits
by Nagesh on Feb 17, 2007 11:08 PM Permalink
Hey here the issue is how politicians /i.e indira Gandhi, who herself married a muslim -- a muslim sympathizer greedy for muslims votes killed sikhs.
RE:RE:84 roits
by Mahesh Sampat on Feb 17, 2007 11:41 PM Permalink
Feroz Gandhi was a parsi..& not a muslim stupid! Don't mislead people.Say what you want but let it be the truth.
RE:RE:RE:84 roits
by Nagesh on Feb 18, 2007 12:05 AM Permalink
So Feroze Khan ,son of nawab khan is not a muslim. What matters more her is Indira Gandhi who craved for muslims votes at the cost of teh diginity of this nation
RE:RE:RE:RE:84 roits
by Indian Muslim on Feb 18, 2007 12:24 AM Permalink
If indeed he was a muslim , she would have got more votes if he had kept his name as Feroz Khan rather than Feroz Gandhi ?... doesnt it ??
She did not have to crave for muslim votes. they voted for her anyway! Pathetic Vote-Bank!
RE:RE:RE:84 roits
by Cyber hinwa on Feb 17, 2007 11:21 PM Permalink
FEROZ WAS A MUSLIM AND HE WAS FORCED BY NEHRU WHO ON INSISTINCE OF GANDHI FORCED THE MUSLIM GROCER TO CHANGE HIS SURNAME BY GIVING A AFIDAVIT IN THE COURT OF LAW OR IT WOULD HAVE CAUSED RIOTS . INDIRA WAS ADAMANT ON MARRYING HIM AFTER SHE WAS KICKED OUT FROM THE RABINDRANATH TAGORE 'S SHANTINIKETAN , WHERE SHE WAS CAUGHTVIN A COMPROMISING POSITION WITH A MAN SERVANT .
BRUSH UP YOUR HISTORY AND FORGET WHAT IS PARROTTED BY CONGRESS .............
RE:RE:RE:RE:84 roits
by anita r on Feb 18, 2007 12:08 AM Permalink
See this is why people think Hindu Right - Wingers are so stupid..........because they are. Any piece of mis-information fed to you by the RSS or VHP is taken by you as the Gospel truth. I received a mail on the eve of the last elections which contained all this 'information' about how Indira Gandhi had married a Muslim and how there was a 'conpiracy' to hide this and so on. Any person with half a brain can tell you it's not true. Feroz Gandhi was very much a Parsi. His sister and relatives still live in Bombay and are involved in various activities for Parsis. Even if Indira Gandhi had married a Muslim, it would make no difference to the people of this country who do not form opinions of people simply based on their religion. There is a difference between being a patriot and a narrow-feeble-minded-bigoted zealot, you are the one who needs to read History and proper History written by people with proper credentials.
RE:RE:84 roits
by gurpreet johar on Feb 17, 2007 11:31 PM Permalink
nagesh understand this indira gandhi was dead when 84 riots happened. plus it was ordinary people who picked put tyres around innocent people and burnt them, each one of them as cruel as aurangzeb..how many of them were hindus and how many muslims i dont have a count...but the truth is none of them has been convicted....if aurangzeb need to be told than 84 needs to be told at least 100 times
RE:RE:RE:84 roits
by Nagesh on Feb 17, 2007 11:37 PM Permalink
Gurpreet I absolutely love sikhism just like buddhism,jainism which have its origins in this great land. What I was trying to point those people are reacting to the death of stupid political leader who has done disservice to this great nation . It is not a problem between hindus and sikhs nor it is motivated by religious hatred.
RE:RE:RE:RE:84 roits
by Nagesh on Feb 17, 2007 11:41 PM Permalink
I totally agree it is shameful to murder innocent brothers reacting to the murder of a stupid politician like her. I agree this should be discussed a 100 times.
the present day Indians , hindus , muslims ,christians and all othrs too must know the truth about the muslim rule of india and the the forcible conversion and persecution adopted by some Rulers like Aurangazeb by way of faithfully adhering to and carrying out the teachings of Quron. This is necessary only to enlighten the masses of both the Hindus and the Muslims about the characer of the Muslim Rulers of India and they illtreated the Hindus .
RE:The truth about aurangazeb
by Indian Muslim on Feb 17, 2007 10:58 PM Permalink
Yeah. One look at the message board and you will know, what truth is. The truth is Aurangzeb is used as a tool to hate present-day muslims. While there were enough people in Aurangzeb's lifetime to hate him and infact fight with him, but still , now that he is in the grave and you cant take revenge against him. So you find your muslim neighbor for it. Good showing!
RE:RE:The truth about aurangazeb
by Anil Mishra on Feb 17, 2007 11:07 PM Permalink
It shouldn't be taken as personal. If you are an Indian Muslim you should know the facts, Akbar is never termed as a bad person and ruler, I was great but Aurangzeb was real like hitler. In Hindus too we have Rawan same as Aurangzeb in Muslims. I think you should accept this fact.
RE:RE:RE:The truth about aurangazeb
by Indian Muslim on Feb 17, 2007 11:16 PM Permalink
I do accept it. I read the same history in school as you did. Despised Aurangzeb as a bad ruler. But just see the hatred it has espoused in the hearts n minds of fellow indians?
Am saying the article is absolutely uncalled for?
Do we not have enough problems?
Are we mature enough as a nation , when there
communal politics is played all around , to sit
down and read history as is ?
I am just saying, that knowing the authors previous articles, this is blantatly to promote hatred for muslims. The author himself has that fear, but still over rides it.
See what he says
" People might say: 'OK, this is all true, Aurangzeb was indeed a monster, but why rake up the past, when we have tensions between Muslims and Hindus today?' "
"The argument that looking at one's history will pit a community against the other does not hold either"
The author knows very well, that with bad relations that we have with each other in the modern times, is surely going to cause more hatred.
That is what he wants. He wants you to hate me. Thats simple as that!
RE:RE:RE:RE:The truth about aurangazeb
by vijay parasar on Feb 18, 2007 12:15 AM Permalink
Dear Mr Indian Muslim, Have u gone in theroot cause of this hatered??? 1. It is appessemnt. 2. silence of ur community on the various incidence when hindu sentiments are heart viz. M.F. Husseain - Nude Painting on Hindu gods. Attack on Parliment. Hijacking of Indian plane for relaese of world's most dangerous terroist. and the list goes on. Ur community should have come out openly and would have made a stirr in whole of country showing solidarity with hindu than i guess this subject would have died down without a single comment. But you people have never cared for hindu sentiments in Hindusthan and never cared for our feeling. You should have come out with just one issue- Ban on Cow Slaughter and stop eating the beef for our sake and the senerio would have been differnt. I hope everybody will agree with i said above
RE:Thanks rediff , for fuelling hatred..
by Raghavan Kesavan on Feb 17, 2007 11:00 PM Permalink
This is not to make people fight but meant not to fight and hate at least now .The objection only proves that some Musloims still consider that what the muslimn ryleres did was right and no Muslim seems to have expressed remorse or regret for the heinous offences committed by the muslims against the hindu population.Theu=y are able to raise their voice and even work for the foreign muslims and but do not have the mind to express regret for the offences committed on the people of their own country. Even the present governments of Japan express regret for the crimes of their past Governments against some other countries. Only those who admit their faults and do not hide them and regret for them, do not repeat them.What are the intentions of the Muslims here?
RE:RE:Thanks rediff , for fuelling hatred..
by Indian Muslim on Feb 17, 2007 11:06 PM Permalink
Is Any muslim here supporting that what he did was right?? See all the posts and answer
Read the muslim's post if you have time.
Is anybody saying, converting to muslim was a good thing done by him??
READ YOURSELF , PLEASE!
I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR SOME MUSLIM RULER'S ACTION.
WILL YOU GO TO JAIL , IF YOUR LOCAL AREA MP HAS KILED SOMEONE ? ARE YOU READY? IS THAT WHAT YOU CALL JUSTICE ?
RE:RE:RE:Thanks rediff , for fuelling hatred..
by Imran Parihar on Feb 18, 2007 12:54 AM Permalink
dont waste your time trying to convince this forum. Its useless. The Hindu majority has passed their verdict... we should leave this country, we don't have a right to live, breathe the free air and most of all we have no home. Pakistan was formed by one man who happened to be Muslims and supposedly spoke for all Muslims. My grandfather said it never crossed his mind when they decided to stay back since India was his home. But I think he was a fool, he should have killed himself and the rest of his family instead. We should pay for the attrocities done by the Moghuls on the innocent Hindus, ofcourse the Hindu kings were all saints and never killed rivals, destroyed places of worships etc, the Muslims were the only one. So why don't you people hiding behind your computers do something and murder us Muslims, this is the best time, the world will be very supportive of your great actions. I hope this satisfies everyone.
RE:RE:RE:Thanks rediff , for fuelling hatred..
by bombay india on Feb 18, 2007 02:25 AM Permalink
You are right. None of us had a hand in what our ancestors did. Somehow it is very easy to hate one another, and we are all so happy to accept any thing that justifies that hatred. But i am glad there is a small group of sensible people like us on either side who can see beyond these distortions.
It can be only in India that a foreginer like Francois Gautier is let loose to spread venom and divide the society as long as his agenda confirms to RSS VHP and other Hindu Militant Oragnization ,no wonder a saint like Mother Teresa is not accepted by the Hindu Nazis but a hired Hindunazi propagandist finds place in the fundamentalist Hindu society, this self styled and self proclaimed FRENCH historian is writing utter nonsense without any references and proof , his whole aim like rediff.com seems to be to further the agenda of Hindu terrorist organizations like VHP Bajrang Dal etc.
If Aurangzeb was such a bad guy they you need to look at the temples in Aurangabad which were given regular donations and maintenace funds by him, if the Muslim rulers were so bad and forced people to conversion all of India would be Muslim after 1100 years of rule.
The attemps by the Hindunazi thinktank and "hired propagandist" like Farncois is to create a rift amongst the different religious minorities in India by propagating lies and exagerating the conflict of the Mughals and the early Sikhs.But the fact is that Aurangzeb was applying the rule of the law and crushing the rebellion in Punjab atleast he did not kill innocents like Hindu fundamnetalists do against Muslims and Sikhs and Christians, the Hindunazis and the Hindu fundamentalists called Bhindranwale a terrorist when he was also doing teh same to have a independent Sikh land , what right does India have to control sikhs and punjab , they have a different identity and different religion and right deserve a nation,but the confused hired and underpaid Hindunazi think-tank comprising individuals like Francoise is unethical and unprofessional in their profession of propaganda.
Indeed the Hindunazis will hate the Muslims rulers and come up with false stories of cruelty , if they were they would have not been alive now, anywayz as I said the Hindunazis hate the Muslims rulers becuase the Muslims rulers topped their age old practice of killing the lower castes and punished the Hindunazis for doing so.
I wonder if this hired propagandist has the guts to write about the laws of Manusmriti like pouring hot oil in th ears of the lower caste by the Superior Castes in Hinduism ,before the Muslim rulers stopped it and punished the so called superior castes for doing so, no he will not write about that becuase he wont get paid for that , indeed a propagandist doesn care for truth but for the porpaganda he is paid for , but there are still many eminent historians who know the truth and history cannot be replaced with propaganda like this article in a series of articles by rediff to further the agenda of RSS VHP and other Hindu Nazi organizations.
RE:Francois Gautier Another Hindunazi Propagandist of Rediff.
by Anil Mishra on Feb 17, 2007 11:12 PM Permalink
This is Bull shit, why you termed RSS VHP as a Militant Organization. Are they creating violence in any other country or in India. This is not good. You should correct your statement. You are definitly not from India.
RE:RE:Francois Gautier Another Hindunazi Propagandist of Rediff.
by Observer Observer on Feb 18, 2007 12:04 AM Permalink
Yes I was wrong that RSS, VHP is a militant organization , its a Hindunazi terrroist organization under the guise of a cultural organization to gather funds from foregin sources and use it against the religiou sminorities in India
RE:Francois Gautier Another Hindunazi Propagandist of Rediff.
by Day lambu on Feb 17, 2007 11:21 PM Permalink
Who is this by the way? You sound like an Al Qaeda propogandist. You should realize that it is only in India, only in the 5000 year old Hindu culture of diversity and tolerance that people like you will be allowed to express your lopsided opinion, freely. Let me remind your ignorant self that Hindu-"ism" is not a religion like other organized religions and organizations like RSS and VHP, which are not true representation of the Hindu culture, have surfaced only because centuries of muslim, british oppression and half century of congress minority-ism. However, inspite of all this, inspite of RSS and VHP, inspite of muslim population growing at a faster rate due to excessive procreation, the Hindu culture and philosophy will thrive another 5000, when any of these organized religions will cease to exist.
RE:Francois Gautier Another Hindunazi Propagandist of Rediff.
by gurpreet johar on Feb 17, 2007 11:19 PM Permalink
I dont agree to your observation on comparing sikhs with other relgns, the 9th sikh guru was beheaded under aurangzebs rule for protecting the right of hindus to remain hindus...this was not a fight to control a piece of land.. and again VHP and congress are not different one wants to exploit hindu sentiment and other wants to exploit muslims.. and what this article tells is truth but not complete truth because the story behind bhindrawale and indira gandhi needs to be told , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalistan_movement
RE:do we need ?
by Secular Indian on Feb 19, 2007 02:42 AM Permalink
Because Indians must not let history repeat itself. Religious absolutism is a dangerous thing. Aurangzeb's make a good case study of when one takes ideology/religion too seriously and/or using religion as an excuse for killing innocent people to further political ambitions. e.g., Current Jihad by Al Qaeda
RE:do we need ?
by Day lambu on Feb 17, 2007 11:36 PM Permalink
It is important that the so called "tolerant" or "moderate" makes an introspection as to what is the problem with the way their religion is taught and propogated, why is islam being equated to violence and intolerance everywhere, both historically and contemporarily. Why are muslims backward economically and socially everywhere else except where there is oil and even there, they cannot live peacefully.
RE:RE:do we need ?
by vijay parasar on Feb 18, 2007 12:27 AM Permalink
my dear brother , this is not haterd but we want all indian muslim a part of mainstream of indian constitution. we don't want to fight ( Because enough damage has been done) but these kind of articles we want muslim youth to be more rationale, caring, educated and holing the highest seats of india. but for that you must join the mainstream of indian fabric. stop being used by congres/commies.
RE:RE:do we need ?
by zaheer ahmed on Feb 17, 2007 10:48 PM Permalink
I am not surprised that another article with right wing ideology has been published in Rediff. Guys let past be past, whatever happened in the past is not going to change what is going to happen in future ( unless if we decide to divide us further and try to hate each other more rather than come together as a nation thanks to article such as these!) There are so many issues affecting our country should I list some of them 1. Population explosion 2. AIDS 3. 2/3 that is about 66% of our great country lves under poverty. Whwat can be done to tackle this. 4. Crime - Do you know how many people die everyday due to murder? 5. Corruption - it is prevalent everywhere,
These are just few of the Issues. If I wnat I can go on writing hours and hours on this.
Aurangazeb is in his grave now. You and I cannot know what happened during his regime, because we did not live in his period. Only distorted history books positive or negative can shed some light on what truly happened. But is it of any help now? Lets see what is to happen next. If we let such Anti-communal flames to burn in our hearts then surely we can expect many more Gujarat riots to come!! You and I know the people of the future will see that our present generation was no less worse than any Blood thirsty communal, ignorant people.
Let us all put our energy in driving the country forward, on our way we will find many hurdles trying to stop us. ( by this time we are fully aware what our politicians are fully capable of - if they want to get votes, they can even talk bad of their mothers)
Let us not divide based on religion, let us unite on the fact that we all are INDIANS!!!
RE:RE:RE:do we need ?
by Ajeya on Feb 17, 2007 11:49 PM Permalink
Dear Zaheer thats nice words but then with no action coming from where it should come from.... especially on your point no. 1....any groups from my brother community really ever involved in this till date?? simply bcoz anyone from outside your community doing this will only be labelled a "HinduNazi" as done by Mr.Observer(man with guts to only wash his community clean but not enuf to write his name)!!
RE:RE:RE:do we need ?
by postingg on Feb 17, 2007 11:01 PM Permalink
I do agree with you. And Hope most of us think like you. The most painful thing is, even today many muslim feel a hidden pride instead of shame of what Aurangzeb has done.
RE:RE:RE:do we need ?
by kj jk on Feb 17, 2007 10:55 PM Permalink
if india needs to grow in true sense we need to fist insure that their is communal harmony,so that collectively we can enjoy successs and also work for it.
RE:RE:RE:RE:do we need ?
by Day lambu on Feb 17, 2007 11:26 PM Permalink
Does communal harmony mean allowing a religious community to do whatever they want because it is sanctioned by their "holy" book.
RE:hindu friends plz support the crusade
by Indian Muslim on Feb 17, 2007 10:24 PM Permalink
Even the Americans don't their own president. And you come along to pray for the soldiers? C'mon dude. Stop your hatred!!!
RE:RE:hindu friends plz support the crusade
by John Fernandes on Feb 17, 2007 10:30 PM Permalink
i dont care what americans think , i am indian christian and i will pray for the armies that are carrying out the crusade on islams holy lands eternal heaven is assured for them by Jesus
RE:RE:RE:hindu friends plz support the crusade
by zaheer ahmed on Feb 17, 2007 10:41 PM Permalink
If jesus came to this world to die for all the peoples sin, then why must you guys stop sinning.. go continue doing it. If you had the mind to ask so many questions regarding Islam, ask yourself this..Why did Jesus had to come as son of god, when he is the god himself? did he lose his powers from heaven, is that why he wanted to come to this world to have a try??. ask yourself this!!
RE:RE:RE:RE:hindu friends plz support the crusade
by Lakshman rajagopalan on Feb 17, 2007 10:59 PM Permalink
When r u guys going to appriciate religion rather than gt emotional at the drop of the hat. People have differences and no one faith is on top of the world.
RE:for those who didnt read first time
by hello itsme on Feb 17, 2007 10:20 PM Permalink
you have gone totally astray Mr John....only after u die u will know who is following the right path...God Bless you
RE:for those who didnt read first time
by Zameer Deshmukh on Feb 17, 2007 10:22 PM Permalink
why dont you ask these questions to those who convert from critianity to islam in mass numbers specially in Noth Americal & Euroupe?
RE:RE:RE:for those who didnt read first time
by hello itsme on Feb 17, 2007 10:34 PM Permalink
agar lakhon JOHN islam se door bhagenge to ALLAH kadodon JOHN ko MUSALMAN banade ga samjha kya....tere ek se ISLAM khayam ni hai...
RE:RE:muslims scared of my messages
by Imran Parihar on Feb 17, 2007 10:24 PM Permalink
I wonder why your message is reported for abuse. I read it and am happy you have some peace within yourself now after you converted. At the end of the day that is what matters the most. I am a practicing Muslim and even though I may not agree with some of the teachings I have found the peace I was looking for.
RE:muslims scared of my messages
by Zameer Deshmukh on Feb 17, 2007 10:31 PM Permalink
Dear Mr. John,
You absolutely have the right to ask any questions about any belief. Only thing is that you should not target any personality of any faith.
Muslims try to answer the questions raised by you instead of reporting abuse.
I could reply one of your question although I'm not a scholar of Islam. God used his messangers as a role model for the humanity. & hence he wanted Ibrahim to sacrify his son. He wanted to show to the people the epitom of the love of his messanger to God. Everybody knows how much a person a loves his son. If the person could sacrify his son for somebody; means that somebody is the most beloved.
RE:muslims scared of my messages
by hello itsme on Feb 17, 2007 10:27 PM Permalink
YOU HAVE GONE TOTALLY ASTRAY MR JOHN ONLY AFTER U DIE U WILL KNOW WHO IS FOLLOWING THE RIGHT PATH....GOD BLESS U.
RE:Frankestein's monster that is Jehad
by Imran Parihar on Feb 17, 2007 10:27 PM Permalink
I think if you read the headlines of the Iraq in the days of Saddam Hussein you will realize that the US is the reason for the present day anarchy in Iraq. No one likes occupation especially forced occupation. You and I should know it... we were under occupation too and not all of our protests were non-violent.
RE:RE:Frankestein's monster that is Jehad
by John Fernandes on Feb 17, 2007 10:30 PM Permalink
shias in iraq also dont like forced occupation of sunnis after 1400 years shias there are free
RE:RE:RE:Frankestein's monster that is Jehad
by Imran Parihar on Feb 18, 2007 01:04 AM Permalink
Shias are Muslims too, and they are fighting the Americans.
