These posts bring up the following questions 1) Why are so many people so eager to defend cruel thugs/intruders who have done terrible things to us and call themselves Indians. 2) How we failed as a nation to bring out these masses from centuries of slave mentality. 3) Slavery has gone so deep to the extent they praise and defend the rascals who has done terrible things to their fore fathers and converted them at the point of sword
RE:Important Question
by Indian Muslim on Feb 18, 2007 12:02 AM Permalink
Nagesh, Nobody is supporting Aurangzeb for being 'bad'. I for one , is only against, using Aurangzeb as a tool to hate muslims. I am not interested in wanting to know . Coz You cant just recreate history. The only way to know is , to go back in time! Which we cant do!
RE:RE:Important Question
by Nagesh on Feb 18, 2007 12:12 AM Permalink
Totally agreed. We have no problem with people whose heart and mind is in India,like yours. The questions I raised is for people who hearts and minds have been enslaved by foreign faiths.
RE:RE:Important Question
by Nagesh on Feb 18, 2007 12:27 AM Permalink
Also can you explain about people who live in India and celebrate if INDIA looses cricket match with pakistan . What do you think is the reason if not religious hatred. I ask for a debate about this kind of people, not all. For many of them in their hearts their mother land is Saudi Arabia, even though they and their forefathers have been living here for thousands of years.
RE:RE:RE:Important Question
by Indian Muslim on Feb 18, 2007 02:32 AM Permalink
Ok. First it was pakistan, and now its Saudi Arabia. Where do you get such stories!!!
Motherland is where you come from, not what religion you follow!
RE:RE:RE:RE:Important Question
by Nagesh on Feb 18, 2007 03:07 AM Permalink
I am talking about what is dear to your heart.It is really about what comes first .If India comes first we would not have seen all posts from muslims.
....but also the forefathers of today's Indian Muslims who have been converted at 90 per cent.
I HOPE INDIAN MUSLIMS RECOGNIZE THIS FACT. MOST OF THEM WERE FORCEFULLY CONVERTED AND ITS A HISTORY. DO NOT FOLLOW YOUR ARAB MASTERS. BE INDIAN. BE NICE. BE PIECEFUL. AND IF POSSIBLE TRY TO ACCEPT YOUR ROOTS. Let our planet be in piece and harmony. no more killings for religion.
RE:CONVERTED HINDUS == INDIAN MUSLIMS == ARAB SLAVES?
by Indian Muslim on Feb 18, 2007 12:04 AM Permalink
FINE , CONVERTED , AGREED. BUT THAT CONVERTED GENERATION HAS LONG GONE. FROM THE TIME I AM CONSCIOUS I KNOW THAT I AM AN INDIAN MUSLIM . INDIA IS WHERE I LIVE MY LIFE, AND ISLAM IS RELIGION I FOLLOW.
RE:RE:CONVERTED HINDUS == INDIAN MUSLIMS == ARAB SLAVES?
by Cyber hinwa on Feb 18, 2007 12:25 AM Permalink
MANS FIRST RELIGION WAS HINDU RELIGION..
THE VEDIC PAST OF ISLAM CANNOT BE DENIED . MOHAMMED [ PBUM] PARENTS WERE HINDUS , I HAVE HISTORICAL PROOF AND I SHALL PUBLISH SHORTLY . YOU CANNOT FORGET THAT YOUR RELIGION HAS MURDERED MILLIONS IN THE NAME OF ALLAH.......
RE:RE:RE:CONVERTED HINDUS == INDIAN MUSLIMS == ARAB SLAVES?
by Indian Muslim on Feb 18, 2007 02:34 AM Permalink
Yes, and you can count the same figure propotionately in all religions.
Hinduism a way of life , and not a religion. thats what is posted by most of the hindu scholars on the message board.
RE:RE:RE:RE:CONVERTED HINDUS == INDIAN MUSLIMS == ARAB SLAVES?
by Srinivas on Feb 18, 2007 03:17 AM Permalink
So what you are trying to prove my Indian friend. You only asked the question what is the religion of the 1st Man and now you give the definition of the HInduism.
Yes Hinduism is a way of life. Foriegners who came did could not understand this concept so they named it Hindu religion.
Can you provide some leads to the "same figure" that you are talking about?
I AM A MUSLIM,TRULY BY NAME AND TRULY BY NOT WORK AND CHARACTERS%u2026..
I HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS OF THE QUESTIONS YOU RAISED%u2026.
SEE ONE THING,WHAT YOU SAID ARE ALL ABSOLUTELY CORRECT BUT WHAT YOU DONE THE MISTAKE ,YOU ASKED ABOUT HIGHER PHYSICS AND CHEMISTRY TO THE MEN WHO JUST PASS THE SCHOOL..BOY,THIS IS NOT THEIR FAULT NOT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS..
I don%u2019t know you,your religion,your qualifications,your activities..but I do agree with the questiones you raised.YES,positively,there is answers for them,and who are the people tried to escape from the questions instead of giving answer,they are innocent,don%u2019t blame them and their ignorance.they are simple human being.
Come to the point :
1) i hated the sight of innocent goats being killed to appease God . i asked how can a God ask abraham to kill his own son even if it is to test him ? surely there are other tests than killing a baby!!! also Quran says Allah knows what is there inside the heart of the beleivers , in that case why will he feel need to test since he already knows what abrahams response will be. not a single person in mosque could answer me >>>>>>>ANSWER :: ALLAH is not GOD.ALLAH is not and never appeased by the killing of innocent goats.Who believe that ALLAH is pleased to see the killing of goats-which is HIS creation, he is not a muslim.ALLAH is pure from all such things%u2026.
You said KORAN say %u2026%u2026%u2026%u2026You are correct.But you didn%u2019t go to the meaning of the KORAN sayings but just interpreted them..Hope,after LEARNING (not reading and get the meaning from other person) the KORAN,you will get more clear answer than me..
2) if a woman is raped why is it that unless she produces 4 male eye witnesses she is to be stoned to death ? >>>..ANSWER : This is absolutely wrong to think that this is Islamic.Islam never allow this one and this type.Those who are saying this sentence,they are to defame the Islam.They are not muslims.They are ANTI-ISLAM%u2026.YES,ANTI ISLAM%u2026..dont believe that islam rules that way..PLS%u2026..
3) we muslims tell others esp the hindus that to make images of God is forbidden. Allah has no form . in that case why do we attest male gender only to Allah >>>>>>ANSWER :Yes ,probably you know and may not know,Hindus (this is also a word used the them muslims%u2026We all Indian are Hindus%u2014Indus..)say%u2014Baidik, also believe in BRAMHA which is also imageless.You go and read the Veda,Upanishada.Even Christianity also don%u2019t have idol worshipping%u2014now a das it happening---..You know and believe (!) that JESUS is not GOD !!! If he was not a human being like H.MOHAMMAD (pbuh),he can never be crucified%u2026.How GOD can be crucified.If God cannot sae Himself,then,how his believers%u2014like the Nun,can be saved%u2026
RE:reply for MR fernandes....
by dp on Feb 18, 2007 01:19 AM Permalink
Hi!
Nasreen
Thank ALLAH there is one person who has really understood what the KORAN or PURAN says.
That is love for each other. People mistook the word sacrifice for killing. When Allah, Sai or Ram, Krishna ment sacrifice is giving away, sacrificing yourdesires, to leave the goat or animal safely away.
Its in the puranas too that only demons used to eat meat. And the Manushyas us were supposed to live in peace on paak or shuddh diet.
Unfortunately all have become demons.
We eat bad things and inherit the bad qualities and curses from the being thus leading to bad actions & life.
Can one person tell me today if he felt good leaving a goat free on bakri id. Its not just about Muslims. Hindus too are becoming ignorant towards spraing animals.
Just imagine !!! is there any fun in killing others for a momentary satisfaction.
If there was nothing available on earth the reason of meat eating is sufficed.
Truly Nasreen GOD has no form no name as well as HE has all the names and all the forms.
He can be and not be seen in any form.
If we see GOD in all we would never fight..we would care for each other. Thats why in Hindus, ist said atiti devo bhava (every guest is like GOD). It is Bhagvad Gita by the Lord Himself that He is Omnipresent, He can be anywhere, He is form less as He has many forms, He can be in the Brahman, He can be in the form of Chandala or He may be a Lion or a Goat. Anything, God has got nothing to do with ego. For him ebverything every being is same.
He doesnt want sacrifice, pedas, sweets, flowers. He just wants we to live as Humans in peace and harmony and let other beings on earth live so.
He sent many forms of His own as Kabir, Sai, Jesus..but wht did we do to them????
For your info, Nasreen this earth was only one continent first..ruled by Bharat & was thus named Bharat Varsha. And the ocean , Hind Mahasaagar.
It was when continents seperated through natural changes tht communities rose.
And people misinterprated things for their own benefit.
Hinduism is not a religion, its a way of living and letting live..no restrictions despite of culture...thats the way to live. NOT fanatism.
Thats how we spread love and culture not by force or conversion.
Aurangzeb was an Idol of Demonism... which we all humans need to remember before doing any actions that should match his.
If Dara Shukoh would have been the successor as Shah Jahaan wanted, the world would have seen a Sun rise.
You know why other commnunities are blaming islaam in the whole world??..you should see whats happening in London..its horrible.
the truth which all knew but was not acknowledged widely has come out,all historians true to their professions will agree that aurangzeb rein was the darkest period in indian history.that man undid all the good done
by his forefathers and did more to create the hatred in hindu minds that anyone else.why does the government try to be politically correct in matters of factual history,can they not tell the truth squarely when it comes to it.what aurangzeb did was wrong and despicable and any right minded muslim will agree to that as well.this article is excellent review of the past and should be circulated widely.i am surprised that someone wanted it removed .are they afraid to coming to terms to their or lack the guts to agree with something just so that people might feel bad.i ask what is their for muslims to feel bad about.the kind of tortures done by aurangzeb on his subjects desearved to be condemned.if it was a hindu king same treatment should have been.IT NOT ABOUT EQUATING ANYONE WITH TERRORIST'S BUT ABOUT OWNING UP TO PAST MISTAKES RATHER THAN CLOSE EYES AND PRETEND THAT IT NEVER HAPPENED .TRUST BETWEEN COMMUNITIES CAN BE BUILT IF WE ARE HONEST ABOUT OUR PERCEPTIONS RATHER JUST BE SMILING AROUND AS IF NOTHING HAS EVER HAPPENED
RE:FINALLY THE PAST CATCHES UP ! BRAVO
by Indian Muslim on Feb 17, 2007 11:54 PM Permalink
So if an alternate version of Francois Article is posted, which ridicules his, will you accept it ?
RE:RE:FINALLY THE PAST CATCHES UP ! BRAVO
by Srinivas on Feb 18, 2007 03:30 AM Permalink
Its not about this article or that article. People around the world know who are at fault and what has happened in the past.
I fully agree with the author Francois Gautier. People deserve to know the truth.
I wish we all Hindu & Muslims can keep our religions inside our houses & temples/mosques only.
let us not allow another gujrat or bombay type of killings again. let us all fight for peace, clean environment, a developed nation. let us make this better world for our childern to build strong foundation of humanity.
All the religions teaches love & peace.
I have been a serviceman in Indian Armed forces for 15 years and I seen that even in military there is no more secularism. Most of the Hindus in this century are becoming religious fanatics.The bias is quite visible, against muslims in India.
Message deleted by moderator
RE:RE:Tolerance
by Indian Muslim on Feb 17, 2007 11:56 PM Permalink
See!! just this kind of hatred you can have.
The truth is , you cant accept a muslim being patriotic, unless he sings praise for Hindu dharma.
RE:Tolerance
by chaitanya kumar on Feb 18, 2007 01:14 AM Permalink
imlaq, i respect you for your service in the Army. Good job dude. But Islam should be seen in a different context. What Hindus have been through. See it in a holistic approach. Progressive Muslims like you should talk to the Mullahs or takeover the leadership from them to reform Islam in India. There is no other way.
I HOPE REDIFF WILL REMOVE THIS ARTICLE FROM HERE.....
I FEEL MUSLIMS ARE FEELING UNCOMFORTABLE... NOT ONLY THEM BUT I ALSO FEELING LIKE THAT.... ITS BETTER WE FORGET WHAT WAS HAPPENED IN PAST LET US LOOK INTO A BRIGHT FUTURE....
PAST IS PAST AURANGJEB IS NOMORE....
ITS MAD IF YOU SUDDENLY ASK PAKISTAN TO VACATE ITS LAND BECAUSE HINDU CIVILIZATION IS STARTED FROM THERE FROM INDUS VALLEY IN PAKISTAN, ITS THE REAL PLACE FOR HINDUS... CAN THEY VACATE THE PLACE FOR US ?
WHAT ABOUT ARYANS WHO ARE INTRUDERS FROM EUROPE,IRAN,AFGHAN & PUSH THE REAL INDIANS FROM NORTH TO SOUTH AND OCCUPIED ALL OF THEIR PLACES CAN THEY GIVE BACK THIS ?
SO IN HISTORY EVERYBODY IS INTRUDERS...
NOW WE ARE LIVING IN A MORE CIVILISED WORLD....
HOPE YOU REMOVE THIS ARTICLE FROM HERE OR ELSE YOU BECAME RESPONSIBLE FOR DISTURBANCES BETWEEN THESE TWO CULTURES....
RE::::::::::: REDIFF FOR GOD SAKE REMOVE THIS ARTICLE:::::::::
by Cyber hinwa on Feb 17, 2007 11:49 PM Permalink
YOU IDIOT
1. WHY SHOULD WE OR MUSLIMS FEEL TRUTH AS SOMETHING UNCOMFORTABLE ??? IF THEY DO WHO CARES ??
2. ON INDEPENDENCE HINDUS WERE 15% IN PAKISTAN NOW THERE IS NOT MORE THAN 1.3% , WHAT HAPPENNED TO THEM DID THEY DISAPPEAR OR ............ YES THEY WERE FORCIBLY CONVERTED .
3. THERE WAS NO ARYAN INVASION ONLY STORY FORMULATED BY MACULAY AND PROPOGATED BY COMMUNIST SYMPATHISER ROMILA THAPAR , AND HER CRONIES LIKE IRFAN HABIB , ZOYA HASSAN ETC . I DOUBT IF YOU KNOW WHO THEY ARE .
4. NOW YOU THINK IS THE CIVILISED WORLD OKAY GO TO THE FOLLOWING WEBSITE : AND TELL ME IT WILL NOT HAPPEIN IN YOUR LOCATION : http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/feb/09mukhtar.htm THERE ARE A MILLION MORE INSTANCES .
5. NO ONE IS AFRAID OF ANY MORE MUSLIM / ISLAMIC TERROR NOW IT IS THE PAYBACK TIME .
6.WHY ARE YOU AFRAID OF LOOKING TO THE TRUTH IN FACE .
7. AS AURANGZEB AND HIS BIOGRAPHERS HAVE WRITTEN THE MATTER I HOPE YOU WILL NOT INSULT YOUR OWN INTELLIGENCE CALLING IT FAKE ,
RE::::::::::: REDIFF FOR GOD SAKE REMOVE THIS ARTICLE:::::::::
by dp on Feb 18, 2007 01:39 AM Permalink
Hi! Friend
Yes we should not think of Aurangzeb now.
He was the mideval Ravan...much worse than him.
Killed his own brother and father..who were the gems of india.
Allah has shown again that no matter how a devil tries, faith cannot be wiped by conversion....its a true lesson for convertors.
Allah or Krishna, they were and always on the side of good and peace.
Befriending anyone or any religion was against the rules of Aurangzeb. What are all of us doing now?
No need to write about other demons.
The point is dont blame each others communities.
No one wants disharmony other than evil businessmen & politicians. Why become a scape goat?
If there is a riot caused by political miscreants..we hindus and muslims should stand together and shake their seats...go to the roots and crucify them.
Since Mahabharta, people have been marrying each other fromm Afghanisthan to India. What is the whole point? Thats the way to live in harmony, mix up and still remain what you are.
Some people will always create disharmony.
The good are always afraid to pin point the bad fearing death.
I dunno about the british idiot who wrote that Aryans were Afghanis.
Aryans were Maharishi saints that cam from far above germany. They spoke sanskrit.
The point is they too taught love.
Like Allah, Ram , Krishna, Sai....but mans ego will lead him to HIS penalty.
Today on earth we have technology, infrastructure, lifestyle but poor minds & no love for humans ans nature. We are no longer humans...no longer Allahs or MahaVishnus sons.
So with tears in HIS eyes, He will bring major destrcution to earth..thats what we see as calamities.
