RE:Every Musleem
by Sameer on Feb 20, 2007 03:50 PM Permalink
What about LTTE who are hindus, the naxal in Andhra, Assam, Maharastra aren't they hindus
I am amused by the tone of the pacifists on this message board. All they are trying to say - let us forget the past. This is the time to think of the future. Let us talk about food for the poor, education, roads, blah blah.
But they dont know that there are still many Aurangzebs floating around. Just look at this interview of Dr.Zakir Naik, who is renowned and respected Islamic scholar. His views will shock even the most liberal of readers.
RE:Many Aurangzebs still around
by Fighter on Feb 19, 2007 07:15 PM Permalink
Oh my god!! Really socked. I was really wondering if Bin Laden is speaking or So called moderate Muslim Dr Zakir Naik.
That Aurangzeb was a religious fanatic cannot be denied. That it affected the Hindus cannot be denied. However the question to be answered is do we use this article to fan religious hatred or to understand and accept the truth however unpalatable it is to some.
Muslim people should ignore this article, there is no point of trying to justfy your faith. If you know about Islam and what it stand for than why does it matter what others has to say.
Aurenzeb did what he had to rule his country. He was a muslim king ruling a hindu land, he always had problems from many rat groups so he had to squash that problem.
Don't look in the past, look to the future. today india has many problem. The country still doesn't have water,food,electricity,proper road,schools,hospitals for it's people. Solve some of these problems first.
RE:from khan
by Devendra Rai on Feb 19, 2007 09:07 PM Permalink
I wonder Zakir Nail looked at his last name, he needs to change that first. I pity such people.
RE:from khan
by Secular Indian on Feb 20, 2007 05:00 AM Permalink
One can look to the future only when one has a good sense of the past. People are not sitting on their hands "looking into the past" they are doing it along with fixing water, food, electricity etc. They are not mutually incompatible goals they go hand in hand.
RE:Let the History takes
by Sameer K on Feb 19, 2007 09:50 PM Permalink
This is nothing but Communist Terrorist joined with Islamic terrorist both have same objective to destroy this great nation, don't tell us those are hindus thoase are Gaddars.. Astin ka saap.
RE:Let the History takes
by Jayant Pant on Feb 20, 2007 02:10 AM Permalink
Aurangzeb "donated for temple". Who was he to donate our land to our people?
RE:Let the History takes
by Venkateswaran N on Feb 19, 2007 10:15 PM Permalink
OK.Let us assume for a moment that,all those who think of Aurangzeb as a fanatic are Hindutva vadis. What about the execution of the Sikh Guru, Tegh Bahadur by Aurangzeb? What about militant uprising of sikhs under the leadership of the great 10th Guru of Sikhs, Guru Gobind Singh, in response to the atrocities of Aurangzeb. What do you say about the zafarnama that the Guru wrote to Aurangazeb. In this letter the Guru details how he and his thugs have broken their oaths sworn on Koran. Do you want us to believe that all these are lies. So, Please stop spreading black lies that Aurangzeb is a good human or a benevolent king.
RE:Let the History takes
by Secular Indian on Feb 20, 2007 04:38 AM Permalink
Most of the article quoted is based on the hypothesis , "if Aurangzeb forced Hindus to convert to Islam then there should be more Muslims in India." It's certainly a valid question to ask. If one looks at Aurangzebs attempts as chronicled by his own court, he was certainly not lacking in zeal. According to his own official court chronicles: "Aurangzeb ordered all provincial governors to destroy all schools and temples of the Pagans and to make a complete end to all pagan teachings and practices". Some more nuggets that you may not be familiar with "Hasan Ali Khan came and said that 172 temples in the area had been destroyed. .. His majesty went to Chittor and 63 temples were destroyed..Abu Tarab, appointed to destroy the idol-temples of Amber, reported that 66 temples had been razed to the ground"
These are not the ravings of a Hindu vadi but from the official court records which are not in dispute. The resistance to attempts at forced conversion are also well recorded, Guru Tegh Bahadur's martyrdom [What the Mughals did to Banda Bahadur and his 4 year son is just too painful to recount here]. If there are more Hindus in India today it is not for lack of trying on Aurangzebs part but inspite of it, perhaps their under rated stoical demeanour in the face of such cruelty is taken for granted and not recognized for what it is, that the Hindus/Sikhs preferred to die rather than convert to Islam.
a. Muslim populations are concentrated in urban areas, an implication that they Muslim rulers more or less succeeded in places where they had total control. In the country side their hold was tenuous at best and so they weren't as successful.
b. The Muslim in undivided India was not minuscule, in undivided Punjab which was the larges province prior to partition Muslims were 65% and the Hindu/Sikh population was only 35%. This was an area of active forced conversions and this where most of the recorded resistance to Mughal forced conversions come from.
If you are convinced about these assertions, then why don't you establish a gallery highlighting these? Let there be a critical examination of all the "farmans". Why this outrage over Gautier's gallery?
The truth is man has a gene related to the alpha male, Which means he needs to be the Top is the Social heirarchy, wants Money, Power and Women. Similar to Alpha Male in Animal Kingdom.
Now to get there what he does is : Man: Uses Religion, Weapon, Pen, Speech. Animal: Uses Dances, Fights, Mocks, Noises.
Man has a Choice by nature SPEECH which can be more peaceful.
HATE AND VIOLENCE IS MORE WITH BIOLOGY THAN WITH THEOLOGY.
JIHAD is to KIll the GENE OF DOMINANCE AND HATE IN ONES own SELF.
ALL RELIGIONS DONT AGREE WITH EACH OTHER SO NO NEED TO A DIALOGUE AMONG THEM.
A PANDIT NEEDS HINDUS: CAUSE HE CAN SURVIVE ON GRANTS PAID BY HINDUS. A MULLAH NEEDS MUSLIMS CAUSE HE CAN SURVIVE ON GRANTS PAID BY MUSLIMS. A FATHER NEEDS CHRISTIANS CAUSE HE CAN SURVIVE ON GRANTS PAID BY Christians.
SO DONT FIGHT LIKE ANIMALS, GO BACK TO YOUR WORK AND HEAD MANKIND TO COLONIZE SPACE. EVERY PENNY YOU EARN WILL HELP MAN KIND.
REMEMBER DARWINS THEORY:SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST. IS MAN SO CONFIDENT THAT HE HAS ALREADY WON?
RE:BIOLOGICAL SENSE To THEOLOGIAL QUESTION
by fahad mohd on Feb 19, 2007 05:04 PM Permalink
Dear, darwin's theory has already been rejected by many a scientific facts. Remember, it's a theory (an unproved one at that) and disporoved with facts by many.
RE:RE:BIOLOGICAL SENSE To THEOLOGIAL QUESTION
by Amar Deep on Feb 19, 2007 05:22 PM Permalink
Im sure Mr Fahad has failed in Primary education and thereon, Since you had to understand only religion and not Science. You can only be a cyber savvy less literate candidate. At least encourage your Children to do their Homework well.
RE:RE:RE:BIOLOGICAL SENSE To THEOLOGIAL QUESTION
by Qamar on Feb 19, 2007 06:58 PM Permalink
Hi Amar, Your attitude seems to be very nice; over that your language is most polite; I have lot of interest in science; I would love if you can give exact picture about what was there in the universe before BIG-BANG, and why does the Big bang happend; becase time start from minus infinity to plus infinity; certainly when big bang happend it was not minus infinnity time. Regards Qamar
RE:RE:RE:RE:BIOLOGICAL SENSE To THEOLOGIAL QUESTION
by Secular Indian on Feb 20, 2007 04:04 AM Permalink
In reality it has nothing to do with evolution (atleast not directly) however I digress. Let me first start with what the Rig Veda says, if we you can comprehend the subtlety expressed in the verse then there is still hope for you:
Creation Hymn
A time is envisioned when the world was not, only a watery chaos (the dark, "indistinguishable sea") and a warm cosmic breath, which could give an impetus of life. Notice how thought gives rise to desire (when something is thought of it can then be desired) and desire links non-being to being (we desire what is not but then try to bring it about that it is). Yet the whole process is shrouded in mystery.
Where do the gods fit in this creation scheme?
The non-existent was not; the existent was not at that time. The atmosphere was not nor the heavens which are beyond. What was concealed? Where? In whose protection? Was it water? An unfathomable abyss?
There was neither death nor immortality then. There was not distinction of day or night. That alone breathed windless by its own power. Other than that there was not anything else.
Darkness was hidden by darkness in the beginning. All this was an indistinguishable sea. That which becomes, that which was enveloped by the void, that alone was born through the power of heat.
Upon that desire arose in the beginning. This was the first discharge of thought. Sages discovered this link of the existent to the nonexistent, having searched in the heart with wisdom.
Their line [of vision] was extended across; what was below, what was above? There were impregnators, there were powers: inherent power below, impulses above.
Who knows truly? Who here will declare whence it arose, whence this creation? The gods are subsequent to the creation of this. Who, then, knows whence it has come into being?
Whence this creation has come into being; whether it was made or not; he in the highest heaven is its surveyor. Surely he knows, or perhaps he knows not.
Now what the current state of research on this rather fascinating subject has to say:
According to Einstein%u2019s general theory of relativity, the Big Bang represents The Beginning, the grand event at which not only matter but space-time itself was born. While classical theories offer no clues about existence before that moment, a research team at Penn State has used quantum gravitational calculations to find threads that lead to an earlier time. %u201CGeneral relativity can be used to describe the universe back to a point at which matter becomes so dense that its equations don%u2019t hold up,%u201D says Abhay Ashtekar, Holder of the Eberly Family Chair in Physics and Director of the Institute for Gravitational Physics and Geometry at Penn State. %u201CBeyond that point, we needed to apply quantum tools that were not available to Einstein.%u201D By combining quantum physics with general relativity, Ashtekar and two of his post-doctoral researchers, Tomasz Pawlowski and Parmpreet Singh, were able to develop a model that traces through the Big Bang to a shrinking universe that exhibits physics similar to ours.
In research reported in the current issue of Physical Review Letters, the team shows that, prior to the Big Bang, there was a contracting universe with space-time geometry that otherwise is similar to that of our current expanding universe. As gravitational forces pulled this previous universe inward, it reached a point at which the quantum properties of space-time cause gravity to become repulsive, rather than attractive.
%u201CUsing quantum modifications of Einstein%u2019s cosmological equations, we have shown that in place of a classical Big Bang there is in fact a quantum Bounce,%u201D says Ashtekar. %u201CWe were so surprised by the finding that there is another classical, pre-Big Bang universe that we repeated the simulations with different parameter values over several months, but we found that the Big Bounce scenario is robust.%u201D
While the general idea of another universe existing prior to the Big Bang has been proposed before, this is the first mathematical description that systematically establishes its existence and deduces properties of space-time geometry in that universe.
The research team used loop quantum gravity, a leading approach to the problem of the unification of general relativity with quantum physics, which also was pioneered at the Penn State Institute of Gravitational Physics and Geometry. In this theory, space-time geometry itself has a discrete 'atomic' structure and the familiar continuum is only an approximation. The fabric of space is literally woven by one-dimensional quantum threads. Near the Big-Bang, this fabric is violently torn and the quantum nature of geometry becomes important. It makes gravity strongly repulsive, giving rise to the Big Bounce.
"Our initial work assumes a homogenous model of our universe," says Ashtekar. "However, it has given us confidence in the underlying ideas of loop quantum gravity. We will continue to refine the model to better portray the universe as we know it and to better understand the features of quantum gravity."
RE:RE:RE:RE:BIOLOGICAL SENSE To THEOLOGIAL QUESTION
by Sameer K on Feb 19, 2007 09:53 PM Permalink
And he can also tell you how to make Bombs and explode to kill humanity, I think you forget this point.
RE:Stop the Hatred Network
by Ravi Sastry on Feb 19, 2007 07:55 PM Permalink
santosh, are you a crackpo*t ? its clearly mentioned in the article why we need to study history..french are given as the examples. understand our history and let out children know their roots. illiteracy, poverty and all the shi*t has been there and will continue...talk to the beggers, they love their job more than we white collored guys. They are making sufficient money by begging. Im not saying that we dont have to do anything about that. Its just that your answers are damn cliched that its more of irritating now. every tom,dick & harry is talking only about rising India, removal of poverty blah blah...why the F can't you have a holistic view of India. We Indians have a very rich culture and tradition, look at USA, how less history they have,...they are so proud about it and preserve it well. Guys, post more of mature messages, dont copy paste..its frustrating to see dumb* heads posting crap just for the sake of putting something on the message board.
RE:Stop the Hatred Network
by Secular Indian on Feb 19, 2007 04:40 PM Permalink
You'll be surprised that there are two "pasts" one Muslim and the other Hindu and they don't just differ in minor detail. This article and the comments are ample testimony to that.
it is apt to look at it and promote a more open society wher we can discuss the pros and cons
i am amused when people make a big noise when some one wants to build a temple in ayodya
the sttitude is ' IT IS OK FOR MUSLIMS TO DESTROY AND TAKE OVER THE TEMPLES AND CHURCHES AND SYNAGOGUES AND BUILD MOSQUES ABUT IT IS NOT OK FOR OTHERS TO RECLAIM IT BACK
I CAN GIVE MANY EXAMPLE - THE BASILICA IN CONSTNTINOPLE(istambuL), THE DOME OF ROCK ( JEWISH TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM, THE AYODYA TEMPLE SO MANY
THEY WANT A MOSQUE IN ROME BUT THEY WONT ALLOW A CHURCH IN SAUDI SEE THE HYPOCRACY OF THE MOTH EATEN RELIGION
THERE IS A SAYING LIVE AND LET LIVE AND WE ALL HAVE TO PRACTICE IT
