So the hindus are innocent are they?? they don't have the blood of innocent people on their hand?? most of you guys are primitive, get some education, earn some money. India is still a poor country unable to feed it's people. The country still can't provide the basic needs for it's population, get these fixed first.
There is no point of fighting, we already have done that, what have we achieved by that? our country is still poor.
RE:from khan
by Guess Guess on Feb 21, 2007 05:46 AM Permalink
Where are you from the address as "you guys". Please remember that there is always a retaliation for every wrong move. I am neither a Hindu nor a Muslim. I am Christian and Indian. Stop saying "you can't wipe out poverty.." What is your contribution in dealing with these issues. India still and will be an unique place with all it's good and bad like any other country.
RE:from khan
by Secular Indian on Feb 20, 2007 09:15 AM Permalink
Till the day the Hindus go marching off to Mecca to raise it to the ground and then build a temple, forcibly convert the Arabs to one of the various faiths that are part of the Hindu civilization, take their women as concubines and plunder their oil wealth, and then claim it was sanctioned by God because the leader of the Hindu army claimed that God spoke to him through his messenger and that rest of the world should take the leaders word for it, I can emphatically say they are innocent, with respect to the atrocities mentioned by the author in the article.
RE:RE:from khan
by shah khan on Feb 20, 2007 11:53 AM Permalink
Yea, the story in the mahabharat and ramayana are very believing aren't they. Monkey flying, Ganesh singing, colourful cartoon like painted god.
RE:RE:RE:from khan
by ameet mali on Feb 20, 2007 12:05 PM Permalink
Secular Indian,Well said.And khan ur proving ur worthlessness.U suddenly shifted from a thought of stop fighting to "Hindu gods".What happened ?the mask of innocence ur wearing is so fickle,Dont wear it we know what u r.
RE:RE:RE:from khan
by Yerra Burra on Feb 21, 2007 11:02 PM Permalink
Sure, when some Arabian donkey can fly to Jerusalem on al-Buraq in 7th century AD, I am sure Indian monkeys could've flown over high seas in Treta Yug (millions of years ago).
RE:RE:RE:RE:from khan
by misbah urrahman siddiqui on Feb 27, 2007 12:57 PM Permalink
this is ur frustation that thats why u r trying to spit on the moon, do u know how many zeeros one million has, the oldest civilizations are not more than six thousand years, among them the Mohan jodaro was in India and pakistan and the script of this civilisation are still a mystry, none has decoded these scripts. these r not in sanskrit jao jakar pehle kuchh padh lo tab baat karna
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:from khan
by biju nair on Feb 28, 2007 03:58 AM Permalink
Hi Misbah,
I understand Muslims are beleiving in Creation as explained in Bible. Adam as first human. I understand Muslims beleive Genesis as Bible says.
As per the creation theory the first Human(Adam) is not older than 10000 years. The Earth may not be older than than 10000 Years.
Science had proved early humans more than a million years old. muslims won't beleive in Radio Carbon dating methodes since it is not approved in Quran.
RE:RE:RE:from khan
by Day lambu on Feb 20, 2007 12:51 PM Permalink
The depth in the epics of Mahabharata and Ramayana and the symbolic significance of Indian Gods n Godesses cannot be understood by people belonging to a school of thought that has been imposed on them centuries ago without any room for introspection or self examination and that totally undermines creative thinking of any sort.
RE:RE:RE:RE:from khan
by mohammed salam on Feb 21, 2007 01:25 PM Permalink
Dear Friend, To give simple answer for all above questions. please kindly surf google videos for Zakir Naik on his talks on Islam and Hinduasim. you will be surprised to know how Puranas, Vedas and all holy scriptures mention about prophet Mohammed (peace and blessings be upon him). I will not use the term Hindus... because it basically came from persion word and it has entirely different meaning. browse google videos to remove differences....
Please read your own scriptures first followed by the "perfect" humans life as chronicled "faithfully" by his devoted followers. In it you will find many gems, there is space only to give you a glimpse of it's greatness, after all it is the word of God (well we have little choice but to take the exclusive franchisees word for it, I seek your forgiveness for this little digression).
"I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips of them.It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah." Surah 8:13-17 (See also Surah 8:60 & 9:14)
Muslims must fight until their opponents submit to Islam (surah 9:29).
Mohammed said, "I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, none has the right to be worshipped but Allah." Hadith vol. 4:196
Armed with this new knowledge of love, it would be greatly appreciated if you could spread your love elsewhere.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:from khan
by raghav bhatt on Feb 26, 2007 01:55 PM Permalink
Dear friend, Since you have mentioned these things, I am also sugesting you to see the answers to Mr Zakir naik's remarks in the net. (You can do it by Google surfing)If you consider the Puranas as the Benchmarking , Then you consider the other things written in these books also, about God or beliefs etc. Why only consider the part you want?
RE:RE:RE:from khan
by raghav bhatt on Feb 26, 2007 01:49 PM Permalink
Mr Khan, You first answer to the quesions asked to you(if possible), other wise keep quiet.Do not shift the subject.since you have shifted the subject any way, As a Hindu I can say Mahabharath & Ramayan are only stories ,developed for moral education.We can say whatever written in Vedas is not correct always. Still no body will harm us or even object. That is the beauty of Hinduism. It will accept comments & will grow according to the time. But I am challenging you, you openly say khoran is not written by God it is the creation of Human.Go & see web site" contradictions in Khoran" & try to defuse at least one.
RE:RE:RE:from khan
by Secular Indian on Feb 20, 2007 12:12 PM Permalink
Believable or not I don't (personally) care and neither do millions of other Hindus however do you know of any Hindus that have gone on Jihad to destroy mosques in Saudia Arabia and then later justified by quoting Ramayan or Mahabharat and or personal message from someone no less than Mr. God himself ?
RE:RE:RE:RE:from khan
by misbah urrahman siddiqui on Feb 27, 2007 12:46 PM Permalink
ur geeta says kill ur brothers, u people killed millions of ur fellow hindu brothers for just a piece of land. bheesm promised to kill atleast one sahastra persons daily in Mahabharat. u say Hinduism is a relegion of peace. ur GOD killed millions of people of lanka and burnt it to ashes just for one person. ur ramayan says shoodra, and Naaris(women) must not be allowed to listen vedas, u people killed millions of peace loving budhist in india. islam has never done it for just a piece of land thats why islam is spreading all over the world by leaps and bound. in islam there is no other god than ALLAH. we muslims are not allowed to bow our head to any body not even our Prophet.
RE:RE:RE:RE:from khan
by misbah urrahman siddiqui on Feb 27, 2007 12:41 PM Permalink
ur geeta says kill ur brothers, u people killed millions of ur fellow hindu brothers for just a piece of land. bheesm promised to kill atleast one sahastra persons daily in Mahabharat. u say Hinduism is a relegion of peace. ur GOD killed millions of people of lanka and burnt it to ashes just for one person. ur ramayan says shoodra, and Naaris(women) must not be allowed to listen vedas, u people killed millions of peace loving budhist in india. islam has never done it for just a piece of land thats why islam is spreading all over the world by leaps and bound. in islam there is no other god than ALLAH. we muslims are not allowed to bow our head to any body not even our Prophet.
Aurangazeb was a fanatic. He killed his own brothers. He imposed jizia etc. We all know that.
Then why this guy reveal some 'truth' as if we already dont know? His only aim is to divide the people and divide the country again. CIA agents have no place in india.
Max muller once gave a theory of Aryan invasion. This guy is saying something else. we dont need misfits from other religions, cultures and countries to teach us. If he is that worried about religion, let him go and do something about his religion and his country.
RE:Truth from a CIA agent
by Secular Indian on Feb 20, 2007 07:05 AM Permalink
Just because you are knowledgeable doesn't mean that your fellow citizens (assuming you are Indian) are as enlightened as you are. Max Mueller invented the Aryan invasion fantasy which is very different from Mr. Gautier's presentation of facts. There is no equivalence here.
Kudos to you!!! atleast one man with a back bone to tell what the facts were. We indians want to please and agree with everybody just to keep them happy! i have nothing against the moghul rulers, some of them were really mature in their leadership and us indians were to blame for our lack of unity--- but then you got to call a skunk a skunk!!! and thats what this Aurangzeb was!
RE:Great Job Francois
by Azeem Taqi on Feb 20, 2007 06:25 AM Permalink
I agree with you 100%. No one associates Hitler with Christianity, so why do some Muslims take umbrage that Islam is associated with Aurangzeb? I urge my Muslim brothers to think correctly and call a spade a spade. By taking offence to Aurangzeb being calle a crook which he undoubtedly was, you,ll give the impression that you,ll agree with his Satanic acts and naturally invite the wrath of those who suffered. Let us say - Aurangzeb was a criminal - he troubled non Muslims, Shia Muslims, artists, jailed his own father,killed his son and brothers, martyred the children of Guru Gobind Singh ji and we join in condemming him and assure our non Muslim brethren that he was an aberration and an insult to Islam and not representative of Islam.
RE:RE:Great Job Francois
by Shankar Panday on Feb 20, 2007 08:40 PM Permalink
Hitler didnt hv an agenda for a Christian world where the a Christian sharia would be imposed. The same reason applies to Tamil Tiger terrorists, who dont do it for Hinduism but could be Hindus. Islam on the other hand is an expressed obligation to establish Quranic statehood with its crude laws of chopping off hands etc. Therefore Muslim adventurism are mostly if not always inspired by this islamic requirement. I dont know why Mr Taqi should dispute this, the purity of Islam and its establishment forms the core theme of even Allama Iqbal's philosophy. Read Shikwa & the Jawab where Iqbal chides Muslims to have abandoned the path of breaking idols in the exemplary tradition of Aurangzeb & Mahmud Ghazni and have become idol sellers.
RE:RE:Great Job Francois
by Rasheed Kappan on Feb 26, 2007 10:17 PM Permalink
Azeem, Secular Indian does have a point about Aurangzeb being the meanest creature of his time. But the point is, Secular Indian questions the very basis of Islam, its origins and its place in the world. You might agree with him on Aurangzeb, but are you prepared to accept his theory about the origin. Now, I guess if you accept his theory, you are truly a liberal, one of his ilk.
RE:Great Job Francois
by stuart on Feb 20, 2007 12:32 PM Permalink
I really appreciate the secular indian's reply. Though he was a bit sarcastic in his reply, he made shah khan understand how immature was his comments.
We Indians have nothing against our fellow religions and infact India has a great scientist from the Muslim religion as the head of the state and we are really proud of that.
History has its own share of good and bad rulers, what Aurangazeb did was his fault and not his religion's fault. The article may create a lot disturbance but still its the responsibility of the citizens to understand what it means and to keep the miscreant propaganda's in check. Hindus and Muslims experience animosity not because they love their religion so much, but because thier minds are spoilt by leaders who have hidden political agendas. Mr Shah Khan if you are not sure of what you are talking about Please Stay away from blogs.
Congratulations to Francois for bringing this topic in light! You have always brought the true history of India in light! There has been tons of things which has been wrongly stated all these past years, which the Hindus, Indians, World are exposed to and are not aware of - all the true story (history) greatness and tolerances, Bharat has always showed to the world. Everyone who came to Bharat looted it and left with all the wealth, and sadly, finally gave bad name to the country and its country men. Never was a credit given to its rich contribution to the world by these looters. Unfortunately, politicians of India never cared, they were (are) busy with their own building of wealth. Sadly, the past and present population has been in dark about the rich history of Bharat. The kids were (are) taught and made to believe the totally distorted history (eg: Invasion of Aryans!) written down by the looters, including the rulers of India. Thanks to people like Francois and Stephen Knapp who are bold enough to bring out the truth in light to the world. The words fall short to praise their efforts in these matters. It is high time we wake up and open our eyes wide to see beyond these continuous lies being hit everyday on very tolerant Hindus and Indians. The Hindus and Indians should be the most proud people on this earth! (Sadly, we find the contrary!). The person seeking more info should definitely visit the sites of Francois and Stephen, in addition to lots of beautiful sites about Hinduism. Also, please find and read "In Praise of India - Top Ten Famous Quotes" and "Attributes to Gita by Famous People".
There should not be any controversy that Aurangzeb was a religious fanatic.Some historian are trying to potray him with secular colors for no reason.If Aurangzeb,Ghanzinis are tolerants then what happened to thousand of temples.Infact its hard to find a temple in North India that is 600 yrs old.He totured sikh gurus,imposed jijza etc.He is unworth burden that plunge the mughal empire in to abyss.
RE:Aurangzeb is an idiot
by Yazed Khan on Feb 20, 2007 01:56 PM Permalink
Your storied caption "Aurangzeb is an idiot" is not true at all, but he was a bastard. Aurangzeb is not at all an Indian, and it is the inability of the Indians of those days to prosecute Aurangzeb like anything. He should have been chopped off his hands, feet, pelt off nails, head chopped off and the body be burnt like a bundle of hay. Anyway, the more we comment on his deeds and more we condemn, those are all falling short. Damn a bastad like Aurangzeb.
Like any genuine student of history who is familiar with the facts, I am not going to even talk about the historical perspective here. Coincidentally Mr. Gautier is also not doing that - talk about history that is, so that makes my job easier.
But what is worthy of comment is 'our' reaction to what Gautier has to say.
One thing that%u2019s very apparent from Gautier%u2019s diatribe is his conviction that %u2018In India, nothing divides like religion%u2019. And he%u2019s so right. All that Gautier had to do was to fish out one controversy from our past and we are all at each other%u2019s throats. I can almost hear a chuckle from Gautier. Advantage him. The agent provocateur rubs his hands in glee. He is glad to report to his sponsors that Indians still respond to the tried and tested trigger of %u2018divide & weaken%u2019 that saw the country being ruled by foreigners for a few hundred years and go through a heart-wrenching partition in %u201847.
Is the news all bad? Thankfully, a lot of us have learnt to stop and think before letting it fly. Sadly, some of us still let people like Gautier win.
RE:Aurangzeb & Us.
by Secular Indian on Feb 20, 2007 04:52 AM Permalink
Even if Mr. Gautier is playing the role of an agent provocateur, why is that a bad thing if it forces one to question the accepted dogma about certain things that happened in our not to distant past ? A sense of ones own History is a pre-requisite to true nation building, warts and all. There I've heard documentaries made by China that detail their history from the founding of China to the present day (warts and all). As a consequence a Chinese (my sample set) is very aware of his/her place in the world of civilizations. They are also acutely aware of the reasons that led to their fall in prestige in the late 19th and 20th century and this is what will make them a great nation. Unlike the wishy-washy bullshit that Indians are fed which makes them prone to inane feel-good bullshit and most are clue-less about their own civilizations greatest achievements and failings.
RE:Aurangzeb & Us.
by Day lambu on Feb 20, 2007 03:24 AM Permalink
But the problem is history is interpreted differently to suit vested interests. Having read Gautier for many years, I am convinced that he is more Indian than many of the self proclaimed history pundits. He values our culture and traditions and it is from the genuine pain that he feels when he sees we Indian not recognizing the value of our heritage and the threats posed to them that he comes up with such articles. He calls a spade a spade and that is why he is contreversial. Hail Gautier
The subjects taught at Nalanda University covered every field of learning, and it attracted pupils and scholars from Korea, Japan, China, Tibet, Indonesia, Persia (pre-Islamic).
Nalanda University complex was destroyed by MUSLIMs.
Islam is like a virus it must spread to survive, it creates nothing while sucks up creativity for the cultures is infects sucks up it creative forces till it renders them useless. Just look at any major culture that was taken over by islam, Egypt-was great once now a dud. Persia (Zhoorstans) were great now duds and many more. It can be called a religion or more apt will personility cult of mu-hamad of de-evolution and stagnation. mu-hanad telles these islamic hoards that they are latest version of religion say Ver 4.0 but they know deep down they are not even ver 1.0 . And their system prevents open thinking so they run around and blow up things in fustrations.
