RE:The Truth About Aurangzeb
by hello on Feb 21, 2007 09:47 PM Permalink
Anyway, if that is true, then good. But, the story doesn't point like that towards Brahmins or lower costs, it aganist Hinduism. Also, converting hindu people forcefully by Aurangzeb for injustice towards lower costs is unacceptable. Also, when we see the style of some organizations in current day, we cannot believe your statements.
RE:RE:The Truth About Aurangzeb
by hello on Feb 21, 2007 09:51 PM Permalink
May be you can change like that: Also, when we see the style of some organizations in current day, IT IS LITTLE HARD believe your statements.
RE:The Truth About Aurangzeb
by Secular Indian on Feb 22, 2007 04:47 AM Permalink
Imagine standing in court with evidence piled sky high against a mass murderer. No one disputes the evidence not even the mass murderer and his cohorts. But the defending lawyer stands up and pooh poohs it away, declaring "Your honour, my client is mis-understood, he was just spreading his love, I know he has an unconventional strategy for spreading it, but you have to trust me, he has the victims best interests at heart. He is saving them from going to hell." .
those were the days of military rule. subjects and citizens wished to have the strongest and the wisest as their ruler. everybody had got a right to prove himself to be the best ruler. and only war between the different candidates could judge, who would be the best. no matter what relationship the candidates had between themselves.
We know that a state, a kingdom or a government is for basically giving peace and justice in a society. Peace can be hampered for a while to bring a larger justice....like a situation of war. and again little injustice can be justified to bring and keep the larger peace around.....like a situation of curfew in any area.
and the expansion of an empire is also not unjust. Mughal emperors did it like Ashoka and Alexander-the Greats conquered lands and made empires. AurangZeb in particular might have been more intolerant towards the injustices of Brahmins on the lower castes.... and also towards the social/spiritual/physical evil acts/rituals that were prevalent in the temples of those days. he had got his own personality and methodology........ open to critism from all. but making this issue a tool of condeming all muslim kings and religion of Islam is a sheer foolishness.... and even dangerous for society as a whole.
We forget that AurangZeb took Zakat from Muslims as Jizya from NonMuslims. No Muslim king went to Kerala/Srilanka.... but think how Islam reached there... and in fact muslims are 30% in population. Same is the case for Indonesia and Malayshya.... where 40 crore muslims live.
Every body will say ....... this is the case of ONLY TRUTH PREVAILS..... whether Rome... india.... persia..... russia... africa etc.
and the EVIL had to go ..... like Ravanism... Chengism.. Temoorism.... Hitlerism... Stalinism... Britishism... Saddamism etc. In future also the EVIL will have to go.... Bush/CIA... Israel/JewishPlot.... Musharraf/ISI or any evil... all will go. Only the good names of Taoism/Confucionism/Rama/Krishna /Abraham/Moses/Jesus/Mohammad/Hazrat Nizamuddin/Chishti Ajmeri/ BahadurShahZafar / Bose /Gandhi will remain and PREVAIL.
RE:Understand the Basics, please!!!!!!!!
by Secular Indian on Feb 22, 2007 04:54 AM Permalink
The point all you apologists miss is how did it get to such an appalling state, What motivated people to come and convert people in far away lands by sword ? We are not talking about the symptom but the disease here. Killing his brothers is not the issue, internecine warfare is a different kettle of fish. This is a new argument, Aurangzeb was a reformer of Hinduism, surely you jest. Allow me to quote your ridiculous claim:
" AurangZeb in particular might have been more intolerant towards the injustices of Brahmins on the lower castes.... and also towards the social/spiritual/physical evil acts/rituals that were prevalent in the temples of those days. he had got his own personality and methodology "
Hi Francois, Gr8 work and keep going. I have been with the Exhibition and feel theres nothing controversial in the Exhibition at India HAbbitat center and more such impartial works are needed. For some pix on the Exhibition click here
Dear Fancois, your researched viewpoints are timely and excellent. In an age, when tenets of religion are misintrepreted by so called custodians of religion need to understand that their sole goal of creating turbulence in the society by infusing intolerance & hatred among the gullible\'s minds can only lead them to self destruction particularly in an age when the whole world is fighting poverty, fatal diseases and many more malaises knowing no boundary of religion and dogmas. Let everybody see reason and sanity for a better and beautiful tomorrow where the souls can have peaceful coexistence and fight the evils together. sunil mishra hyderabad 21/02/07
RE:Truth about Aurangjeb
by on Feb 21, 2007 12:43 PM Permalink
hi,
India is a soft country,Nobody has time to think in a country where they fight for water, abusing others. Everybody say Hindus are majority and christians and Muslims are monorities to say it is nice, have u ever seen the rise of population we say one two child policy is good,but see a muslims according to them the more the good, because they want to grow more in numbers and one fine day i am aure we are going to be overpowere by them before we were under British and between it became a free India now again it will be rules by muslims for sure whom we say minorities will be becaome majority one fine day ban the reservation policy on the other hand christians(whose motivations are strong enough)are busy converting all poor people to show their strength. The former PM Mrs Indira Gandhi though a hindu followed only muslim culture that is why muslims are always in favoour of Congress govt. Politicians are never bothered about anything they are always behind Votes,power, swiss bank accounts, property etc., when the people of India will open there eyes I pray Bharath matha to help the people by creating awareness.
RE:Truth about Aurangjeb
by mohammed salam on Feb 21, 2007 04:13 PM Permalink
Dear Sunil Kumar, can you please do some video googling on "Zakir Naik" Lectures on Islam and Hinduism. Brother, People come generation after generation, but something that never changes is the belief in God. I appreciate your view point, but saying custodians would lead themself to self destruction in todays age...for this i would say please look into your holy scriptures and what it says and its teachings... and please dont forget to do some video googling on Zakir naiks lectures. you will be pleased to know what the holy vedas and puranas say about Mohammed (peace be upon him). Brother, religion is a way of life which has its rules and regulations. Generations might pass, but faith never dies. To be specific if you see mainly in the western world, you will hardly see people practising their religion. People are becoming Athiest in large numbers or they believe but dont practise. My humble request to you to find similarities in Hinduism and Islam. when you find this, am sure you will know what custodians (i think you are mentioning about Mecca Mukarrama and Madina Munavvara in Saudi Arabia & Al-Aqsa in Jerusalam) are doing. am sure if you gain knowledge through google videos, you will get answers for Aurangjebs actions. Brother, there is no hatred, to solve todays issues, we need to seek knowledge on our faith and the faith we are commenting on. we are lucky that we are living in internet world and we have videos to surf on religious topics.
RE:RE:RE:Truth about Aurangjeb
by mohammed salam on Feb 22, 2007 01:11 PM Permalink
let me make your life easy...watch http://video.google.com.au/videosearch?q=zakir naik
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Truth about Aurangjeb
by mohammed salam on Feb 22, 2007 01:01 PM Permalink
Pandit, you despite living in US commenting cow eating is wrong. which generation you belong too ?. Do you know what is the consumption of COW all over the world. Do you justify, drinking cows urine as holy water, how can you call an animal or stone as god, when it cant protect itself. And ofcourse, what was the favorate food of Rama ? What does your scriptures talk about him. open your eyes. If you talk about Islam, Christianity or judaism, they all go on one platform with a small difference and all consider as children of Abraham (peace be upon him). If you cant hold the truth, then you better dont comment on other faiths. ofcourse, you cant tolerate the truth discussed in debates. Do googling, you will find pandit from India, who disclosed the same truth and became muslim. Dont talk if you are running short of your own faith and others.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Truth about Aurangjeb
by Chankya Pandit on Feb 22, 2007 03:13 AM Permalink
you said, come to western world...islam is fastest growing religion and all the crap...well, to put things in perspective-islamists are increasing in numbers only because they multiply like rats/viruses/flies. your islam has been exposed and most dispised degraded and looked down upon faith system in the whole world. reason-the followers of islam. and again the same patronising tone salam- 'come and see in the west'...why are you presuming i am not in west? if it helps you- i will tell you this- i am highly educated white american hindu. what you've got? some uneducated african american who goes to the mosque? your bunch is being busted in US and europe one at a time, and your days in west are over. come out of your ego trip and see the worls AS IS. no one cares to learn about crappy 'religion' that you follow. and yes, Lord Hari may forgive you for your meat eating. may you be able to come back as some low life form! peace! PS: ekam sat vipra bahudha vadanti(truth is one, wise see it differently) -Rgveda vaudhaiv kutumbakam(whole world is a family)-katha upanishad sarva dharman parityja mam ekam sarnam vraja(giving up all sort of religiosity, surrender to me, i'd purge you of all kind of sins)-Lord Krishna in Srimad Bhagwad Gita.
RE:RE:RE:Truth about Aurangjeb
by mohammed salam on Feb 22, 2007 01:05 PM Permalink
To tell u in simple. you sound to me like an educated illiterate. i asked you to surf on topic "Islam and Hinduism by Dr. Naik. Then we can come on common terms. your post is really abusing with no proofs to support.
RE:RE:Truth about Aurangjeb
by Secular Indian on Feb 22, 2007 06:10 AM Permalink
Are atheists not people ? I made the effort to watch Mr. Zakir Naik's lectures (had to give up after two, he sounds too much like a used car salesman) and all he does is claim that the Bible and Koran are compatible. But that has never been in dispute they are part of the same Abrahamic tradition. The remaining content is along the lines of "how many angels can fit on a pin head", meaningless drivel. Finding common ground between Hinduism and Islam is fundamentally impossible. Hinduism tolerates and encourages pluralism and is technically superset of Islam, however this leads to a paradox since Islam claims their way is the only way and that there is no other path. Anyway the last comment was meant to illustrate your time will be better spent in reading the Upanishads and using the critical insights learned there to examine your own belief system.
RE:RE:RE:Truth about Aurangjeb
by chaitanya kumar on Feb 22, 2007 04:38 PM Permalink
these nuts have only one thing going for them. They stick to a ground and mutter the same thing instead of layering it in detail. No reason, no presentation of meticulous ability, no interest in letting the other guy know the reason behind it. It's faith and that's it. Madness. Others bear it for sometime and giveup and these nuts piss them off by sticking to the ground in rigidness like they do in deserts when there is an avalanche. That's where it comes from. Sickness.
RE:RE:Truth about Aurangjeb
by gb rajasekar on Feb 23, 2007 02:08 PM Permalink
Dear Mohammed Salam, I request you to visit sites faithfreedom.org and islamreview.com and check the facts stated there about hadiths and sayings of Mohammed in the Quran. it shows the reality of Islam. The most dangerous of muslims are those that follow quran blindly as if you go by the translations, we non muslims should be killed on site and if you die a jehadi fighting against us you will get 72 virgins as promised by Mohammed. That is the real reasons that so many young muslims are becoming jehadis. If you can prove me wrong, i will be glad
RE:RE:Truth about Aurangjeb
by gb rajasekar on Feb 23, 2007 02:05 PM Permalink
Dear Mohammed Salam, pls check out these two sites. islamreview.com and faithfreedom.org. Where it is proven by giving exact translations of the hadith and the other verses which prove that muslims are a violent race and the basis of Mohammed did lot of violent things in life and encouraged his followers to do. The real reason for today's jehadis coming up is Mohammed's promise that when you die for jehad you get 72 virgins. These is making it easy for mullas to make young boys die for the wrong reasons like fighting other religions which is again as per Quran the correct thing to do. Go through the hadiths and the messages and i would be glad if I am proved wrong
RE:RE:RE:Truth about Aurangjeb
by ss gpal on Mar 01, 2007 04:21 PM Permalink
Dear sir rajasekar You are completely nuts.Its not just 72 virgin.Read qrap properly.Its 72 revirginatiing virgins and wait and hold ur breath.28 boys with pearl like butts!See the blown up jihadi will be received by the paedmo and allah and the will have strength of 100 men! The priapic ape will be smiling when he thinks of the blown up kafirs as well and the rivers of wine from which he can get drunk and still have a stiffdik.
Writer will be happy to so many arguments for and against. Guys like these are helping the politicians have their ends meet. When do we start understanding this. The sooner the better.
All the readers are wasting their precious time and energy.
RE:Kudos to the writer
by Secular Indian on Feb 21, 2007 01:46 AM Permalink
What you suggest is exactly the reason we are in the current mess. A good understanding of history is what leads to an understanding of the real motives of the politicians/rulers. A vigorous and open public debate is the hallmark of an open and progressive society.
Dear Monseiur Francois Gautier, Your article is excellent. Please accept my compliments . You have done a thorough job by compiling facts. Hope this article will make people think.
I also request you to kindly write an article titled -'The truth about Gandhi'.
Many people have made an attempt to write about the true nature of Gandhi ,his misplaced ideals and the havoc it created for the society at large. But these authors dont have the style of presenting facts in an attractive way as you do.
Hence I sicerely request you to please write such an article too.
T es malin et tu connais bien qq les indiens veulent. Au lieu de creuser l histoire de l Inde. Il faut esssayer de repandre la technoologie et la religion de l Inde en France. Je crois les fran?s ont vraiment en besoin de ? J ai pas lu ton article parceque je m en fous de tes articles et tes connaissances sur l Inde. T es jamais bhartiyey et jamais tu deveindras un indien donc je te passe un conseil de commencer ?ire pour les quotidiens et les journaux fran?s. t es vachement d?le Gauthier.
Il faut aller voir qq les fran?s font actuellement ?ondich? et Chennai. Pourquoi majorit?es fran?s se concentrent ?ondich? ou ?amil Nadu. repond moi de tes questions. QQ ce se d?ule ?uroVille?? R?nd moi tu ?
RE:fran?s Gauthier Vive la France
by Secular Indian on Feb 20, 2007 03:50 PM Permalink
Rough translation:
Since you pretend to know so much about Indian history, why don't you write for French newspapers and spread Indian religion and technology in France. Then something about why there are so many French around Pondicherry.
RE:RE:fran?s Gauthier Vive la France
by vijay ranjan on Feb 21, 2007 02:38 PM Permalink
parceque les fran?s sont racistes. et leurs politques sont contre les ?angers qui vivent en France. J ai vecu 4 ans en France et c ?it trop pour moi. Je te dirai une chose chacun est opportuniste en France et ils preferent installer leurs maisons en Inde mais ils ne veulent pas donner la chance aux autres d avoir une maison en France.
En ce qui concerne mon but de la expansion de la culture et la technologie indienne en France. Je suis pas un imperialiste et je suis pas une mentalit?ran?se. JE fais ce que est bon pour l humanit?t le monde. ASK GAUTHIER HE IS IN INDIA SINCE LAST 30 YEARS OR MORE WATEVER . DOES HE KNOW ANY INDIAN LANGUAGE. AND HOW HIS RESEARCH IS BASED WITHOUT KNOWING ANY INDIAN LANGUAGE IS ITSELF A MOCKERY. ALL I KNOW HINDUS AND MUSLLIMS ANS ALL BROWN PEOPLE LIVING FROM KASH MIR TO KANYA KUMARI ARE SAME AND SHUD BE RESPECTED. HISTORY IS HISTORY AND WE SHUD LEARN THAT WE HAVE TO PROTECT THIS LAND FROM INVADERS WHETHER HE COMES FROM EUROPE OR CEBNTRAL ASIA OR ANYWHERE.
RE:RE:RE:fran?s Gauthier Vive la France
by Secular Indian on Feb 21, 2007 11:00 PM Permalink
Don't know about Mr. Gautier but by your measure a lot of the so called Indian Historians will be disqualified as most of them can't read /write or understand Sanskrit.
The appraisal of the Mughal Emperor Aurangazeb has not been complete.The figure of Aurangazeb is enigmatic to say the least.He comes about as a person who did not trust anyone completely.
Perhaps, he saw enemies around him; he had ascended the throne through intrigue and murder. He had blood on his hands.
He had a sister who too was imprisoned like his father for falling in love with a singer. He had a visceral hatred for any form of gaiety.
Even as an Emperor he believed that a man must work with his hands: he made cloth caps as his contribution to work.
He was ruthless with the Hindus being from a clan of invaders. He was not the cruelest, Timur ,Nadir Shah and Ahmed Shah Abdali were even monstrous. These gents believed in mass slaughter of the Hindus while Aurangazeb was content to only demolish temples. He was also not the first to impose Jizia or tax on non Muslims.
The point that he had many Rajput kings as his Mansabdars or governors can't be rejected.
If we Hindus have to remember the repeated assaults on a peaceful way of life then we, like the Jews of Israel must build a Holocaust monument with a gallery of these invaders who slaughterd millions of people of Hindustan to satiate their greed and lust for power. Aurangazeb may, infact, turn out to be a benign figure.
