Romila thapar and her/his croonies (?who cares)misguided a whole generation of Indians like me . They edited our (CBSE )history text books which proclaim Aurangzeb to a pious ,muslim who made a living selling caps where as Shivaji was a deceitful guirella fighter. To hell with this Nehruvian brand/Stalinisque misinformation propganda which Arjun Singh is continuing with effortless ease now
Why are we still wasting time on mughals... let them go to hell! As a Hindu I dont give damn about any of these invaders.Mughals survived in India only because of the tolerance of Hindus.
RE:why waste time...!
by Ramdas Iyer on Mar 04, 2007 08:57 PM Permalink
sorry friend, mughals survived not because of Hindu tolerance, but because Hindus quarrelled amongst themselves and betrayed their brothers. They do that even now. Even today we worship congressmen who slaughtered our Sikh brothers by thousands in 1984, but even though Narendrabhai Modi has turned Gujarat into the most prosperous state in the country, we still harp on the fact that he is a Muslim killer. The average Muslim of Gujarat is much more prosperous than a Muslim of UP that is being ruled by Mulla Mulayam or a Muslim of Kashmir ruled by Ghulam Nabi Azad
RE:RE:why waste time...!
by SHUQ on Mar 05, 2007 11:25 AM Permalink
Ghaznavi and Mughals were invited at the behest of lower caste people. They invited them to get the required protection that was not available during the rule of hindu rajas.
To stop the exploitation of Lower castes Ghaznavi came and after annexing most of the India he only took away Indias' wealth. As he did not find any interest in ruling Indians.
Moghuls were different they fixed jizya tax and were providing security to all. It is a history of Babur who prayed to God to protect his child humayun and transform his life to humayun. And God answer his prayer and that is a history of God fearing muslim rulers.
Akbar has mostly hindus in his darbar of nauratans.
Aurangzeb was an angry young man he killed his brothers because he didnt like their lavish life style. He jailed his father because he was busy building monuments. He killed muslim saints like Sufi Sarmad and many others just because he did not like him. He attack Golkonda in Deccan and arrested Abul Hasan Tanesha just because he gave red carpet welcome to Shivaji.
But Aurangzeb was not brutal against common man he did justice to all sections. There were Hindu nawabs, patils and many other hindu administrators under his rule. There are still many hindu persons alive who had jagirs(given by Aurangzeb) from their descendants.
How can britishers or europeans or RSS call moghuls or muslims as extremists.
RE:RE:RE:why waste time...!
by Secular Indian on Mar 05, 2007 02:18 PM Permalink
More Madrassa indoctrination I guess:
In one instance specifically Al Utbi gives an idea of the gain from the sale of captives. According to his narrative, Mahmud, after his campaign in Mathura, Mahaban and Kanauj (1018-19), returned to Ghazni with, besides other booty, 53,000 captives and each one of these was sold for two to ten dirhams. From this statement it would be safe to infer that the lowest price at which an Indian captive was sold was two, and the highest ten dirhams. It would also be safe to conclude that slaves were captured by invaders to be sold to make money; for Utbi adds that %u201CMerchants came from different cities to purchase them so that the countries of Mawarau-n-nahr, Iraq and Khurasan were filled with them%u201D.8 Earlier, in the expedition to Thaneshwar (1015), according to Farishtah, %u201Cthe Muhammadan army brought to Ghaznin 200,000 captives, so that the capital (Ghaznin) looked like an Indian city, for every soldier of the army had several slaves and slave girls%u201D.9 Similarly, in the Kashmir Valley (1014 C.E.), according to Utbi, the captives taken %u201Cwere so plentiful that they became very cheap
RE:RE:RE:why waste time...!
by Perv Sharma on Mar 05, 2007 05:08 PM Permalink
Yeah, then why are you sunni muslims harping at IRaq. The shia called americans to get rid of that tyrant SUNNI muslim called sadam hussain. And now India must do the same to Pakistan because despite asking and getting a separate land for Islamic brothers, they have ended up sending more Islamic refugees to the world than Hindu majority India. It' high time that shia's,a ahmedias etc, asked Indian Govt to interfere and finsih the partition.
RE:RE:RE:why waste time...!
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 03:47 PM Permalink
the farmans Gautier mentions above show that Aurangzeb was worse than Hitler
RE:why waste time...!
by sadiq hussain on Mar 04, 2007 04:50 PM Permalink
He he he what a joke? there was no such thing as INDIA in those times,he he he,the sub continent had some hundreds of kingdoms fighting each other.Mughuls defeated ,remember they defeated ,them all and Aurangazeb made it one india.He he he .
RE:RE:why waste time...!
by Perv Sharma on Mar 05, 2007 01:19 PM Permalink
he he he sadiq hussain
Aurangzeb defeated all. Read history again from your Mullah again. Has your Mullah heard about Shivaji. Read last 20 years of Aurangzeb because those 20 years he lost all the wealth that Akbar and his son earned. He died a lost man. He left a weak empire and after some years a Muslim king was only a dummy emperor. And this only because he defiated from the policy of Akbar. Just read once again. He's not the greatest rather he's the badest.
RE:RE:why waste time...!
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 03:42 PM Permalink
there were empires like that of Ashoka which united India, besides everyone in India were Hindus before the advent of Islam. The infighting was the cause of India becoming enslaved/conquered, although there is historical evidence to show that Hindu Rajas' of Kabul, Kandahar, Multan etc. had once joined forces to defeat Subuktagin who was trying to convert them to Islam by force. Aurangzeb lost India (because of his intolerance) - he did not make it one
RE:RE:why waste time...!
by sukhvinder singh on Mar 04, 2007 05:55 PM Permalink
yes and then sikhs and marathas defeated muslims!!! and then in 19th century british tookover.... Good riddance to islam
RE:RE:RE:why waste time...!
by chaitanya kumar on Mar 04, 2007 07:34 PM Permalink
muslim kingdoms were brought down in most parts through revolts from some unknown Hindus who rose up the ranks to takeover major chunks of territories of India before British took over the entire thing by siding with Muslims and supporting them against Hindu occupied areas. There was some resurgence of Hindu spirit which gained from strength to stregth even during british rule through reformation and conceptualizing the nationalist spirit before Gandhi spoiled it with his vagueness. still don't understand why Gandhi gained so much prominence among the Hindus of those times when they were surrounded by Islam and it's quest to suppress the Hindus. Must be a tricky guy, he used religious symbols from Hinduism to gain acceptance from masses. He did some good things too, but should have stayed a Hindu nationalist and kept away from appeasing Muslims.
RE:RE:why waste time...!
by True Indian on Mar 05, 2007 10:40 AM Permalink
my dear SAD -IQ - HASS ---(p)ain, i think u know that Mohammad Gajnavi (by whose name Pakistan has named a messile) was defeated 16 times by Prithvi Raj Chauhan.... and finally he depefated Prithvi Raj Chauhan using bad tricks. this is your type of muslim people. he he he....
Iagree cent percent to Mr B chattopadhyaON ALL POINTS.
our maharajas in rajasthan gave refuge n five main vaishnava dieties are still in rajasthan
at jaipur/nathdwara udaipur and karauli .
We still have a muslim comunity called KAYYAMKHANIS
In rajasthan who after forced converstion from being rajputs DID ONLY MARRY among converted rajputs and to this day observe some hindu and muslim customs . We even have regiment allocation for recruitment in indian army as they are a very brave community .
Rajasthan ajmer sharif is the centere of the sufi thought . what we want from our muslim brethren fellow citizens ---IS LEARN FROM HISTORY....ACCEPT THE TRUTH OF HAPPENINGS--- N SEE THE GREAT BENIFITS OF BEING TOLERENT AND LOVINGLY BROADMINDED LIKE THE SUFI SAINTS ...
THE MUSIC QAVALIS...FLORALDECORATIONS...SERVICE TO THE POOR ...
Lets live like a great nation and BUT DONT TRY PROTECT WRONG DOINGS AND HIDE HISTORY.
RE:article on aurangzeb
by Secular Indian on Mar 04, 2007 02:58 AM Permalink
You are right, I would only like to add that the so called egalitarianism of Islam is also a MYTH. It is trotted out every time some apologist wants to ignore/defend the fascist tendencies of Islam and many times even justify the cruelties perpetrated on Hindus. The reality was highlighted by none other than Dr. Ambedkar in his book "The Partition of India", the chapter to read is:
"Muslim Society is even more full of social evils than Hindu Society is"
RE:article on aurangzeb
by Golu Gayani on Mar 04, 2007 03:06 AM Permalink
All we hope is Islam also sees the mistakes made in the past, take note and lesson learned and progresses in CORRECT direction.
The word I used was "HOPE".
Beacuse reading the views does not make me believe that there is any lesson learned.
RE:THERE IS NOT A SINGLE GRAND HINDU TEMPLE IN NORTH-EAST INDIA FROM AFGHANISTAN TO EAST COAST OF CHITTAGAON.
by Bhaskar Chattopadhyay on Mar 04, 2007 12:21 AM Permalink
I should add here, this North India is supposed to be main seat of Hinduism/Buddhism.
RE:RE:THERE IS NOT A SINGLE GRAND HINDU TEMPLE IN NORTH-EAST INDIA FROM AFGHANISTAN TO EAST COAST OF CHITTAGAON.
by sukhvinder singh on Mar 04, 2007 05:57 PM Permalink
yes and also orissa survived to significant extent.
note. assam was never taken over by muhammdens ever
RE:RE:RE:THERE IS NOT A SINGLE GRAND HINDU TEMPLE IN NORTH-EAST INDIA FROM AFGHANISTAN TO EAST COAST OF CHITTAGAON.
by Ramdas Iyer on Mar 04, 2007 09:00 PM Permalink
sorry to disillusion you Sukhwinder. Assam has been completely taken over by Bangladeshi Muslims today.
In "Discovery of India", Nehru analysed the difference in attitudes of average North and South Indians, which we also feel some times while interacting with them.
Incredibly, Nehru attributed this difference because of long, oppressive Muslim rule in the North. Its very stunning revelation by Nehru considering his "secular" image.
North Indians were equally gentlemany like South Indians prior to oppressive Islamic rule. But as they had to live (and survive) through these hard times, they themselves got changed in the process and started copying aggression from Muslim invaders.
PS: my reference to North/South Indians does not mean I do comment on them in bad light. It should be taken in the context what Nehru wrote.
RE:Why North Indians are aggressive, rubble rouser when compared with South Indians?
by tan on Mar 04, 2007 07:00 PM Permalink
This is absoulute stupidity to say that north indians are aggresive and blaming it on Muslims. Before the muslims invaded india these insane north indians were fightin among themself. This was the reason muslims were able to invade india.Indai today also to be honest is never a united country. U can see that clear example in delhi were people come from all over india and each and every person talk proudly about his state but not about india. The only reason india is united is because of pakistan. That is the truth.. Bal thackrey claims to be a patriotic indian but in his speeched he first says jai maharastra and after that india. What he try to show . he is trying to show that he is maharastrian first and indian later.. Please people of india use your head and be united and not weaken yourself by getting into divisions. North South, Hindu Muslims. Please we are indians and only indians from Kashmir to Kanyakumari
RE:RE:Why North Indians are aggressive, rubble rouser when compared with South Indians?
by Bhaskar Chattopadhyay on Mar 05, 2007 09:20 PM Permalink
I just quoted what Nehru wrote!
To me, yes, it makes sense.
Yes, we all are indians from Kashmir to Kanyakumari. Then why we need 15% reservation/resource allocation based on religion?
Why fellow Indians to the tune of 400,000 are driven out from Kashmir?
Why non-Muslims are all but decimated in Pakistan and Bangladesh, which for all practical purpose has been part & parcel of India for last 5 millenium?
Lastly, what happened(still continuing) to minorities in Bangladesh, Pakistan, Indian Kashmir, or the agressiveness of Muslims on day to day basis brings the memory of Medieval India alive.
Daily dosage of terrorism also brings the memory back.
ITS A FACT, NONE OF 55 ODD MUSLIM NATIONS ARE SECULAR. AND MINORITIES ARE SECOND CLASS CITIZEN. EVEN MALAYSIA WHICH HAS JUST 55% MUSLIM POPULATION HAS ANNOUNCED ITSELF AS A ISLAMIC NATION.
No amount of whitewash will work anymore, as we see deepening of democracy, education.
RE:Lastly, what happened to minorities in Bangladesh, pakistan, Indian Kashmir, or the agressiveness of Muslims on day to day basis brings the memory of Medieval India alive
by neha kothari on Mar 04, 2007 01:35 PM Permalink
How about DANISH KANERIA playing as Pakistani..
RE:RE:Lastly, what happened to minorities in Bangladesh, pakistan, Indian Kashmir, or the agressiveness of Muslims on day to day basis brings the memory of Medieval India alive
by Dr_Ramanand Rao on Mar 09, 2007 03:57 PM Permalink
Danish Kaneria has now been forced to convert to Islam - his new name is Danish Kaleem
RE:RE:Lastly, what happened to minorities in Bangladesh, pakistan, Indian Kashmir, or the agressiveness of Muslims on day to day basis brings the memory of Medieval India alive
by Secular Indian on Mar 04, 2007 03:03 PM Permalink
Perhaps Islam appealed to him, for every Dinesh Kaneria there are thousands of thousands of Hindus that have been killed or forcefully converted.
FYI: It has become a common practice in Pakistan that some Muslim seminaries are encouraging the young men to convert non Muslim minorities to Islam. The young people generally kidnap the young girls of non Muslims and rape them. In cases where they are later arrested by the police, they produce a certificate issued by any Muslim seminary that the kidnapped girls have adopted Islam and that they married the girls. Many of these girls are minor. However, the courts generally do not consider this fact and simply accept the certificate as legitimate.
For example, a 15-year-old Pooja living in Chaki Wara, Lyari town, Karachi was abducted by two Muslim men namely Mr. Iqbal and Arshad with the help of Mr. Iqbal's sister on 23 July 2006. A First Investigation Report (FIR) number 232/2006 was lodged at the Chakiwara police station on July 25 and she was found on the same day. The medical examination, which was conducted on July 27, revealed that Pooja was raped. But on July 27 a certificate issued by a seminary called Darul Amjadia was produced before the court of the 10th Judicial Magistrate, Karachi declaring that the girl has converted to Islam. On December 19, the court accepted the certificate and released Pooja from jail and did not allow her family to take her. As soon as she was released, Pooja was kidnapped again by the same persons and her whereabouts remain unknown. The court also did not consider that Pooja is a minor. According to Pakistani laws, marriage of a girl below 18 years is prohibited and particularly Section 2 of Juvenile ordinance 2002 states that a person below 18 years is considered a child.
In another case, a 16-year-old Hindu Komal living in Hawks bay, Karachi was abducted 2 August 2006 and forcibly converted to Islam. She remains missing since then. The victim's lawyer Mr. Amar Nath, who is the president of Hindu Panchayat Karachi, says that the Hawks Bay police have been refusing to register the complaint regarding this case allegedly because the powerful seminary is behind the abductors.
RE:RE:RE:Lastly, what happened to minorities in Bangladesh, pakistan, Indian Kashmir, or the agressiveness of Muslims on day to day basis brings the memory of Medieval India alive
by seek the truth on Mar 04, 2007 11:14 PM Permalink
solution is to understand islam
visit clikinfo.blogspot.com and see truth for yourself
RE:RE:RE:Lastly, what happened to minorities in Bangladesh, pakistan, Indian Kashmir, or the agressiveness of Muslims on day to day basis brings the memory of Medieval India alive
by sukhvinder singh on Mar 04, 2007 06:04 PM Permalink
when u read things like these it makes ur blood boil. shame on hindus and sikhs in india. shame on you all. its high time muslims got a taste of their own medicine in india, but at the hands of hindus.
hindus and sikhs are too busy speaking hinglish going to discos, flashy restaurant and bars... and too top things of hindus and sikh girls have no knowledge or education of the true nature of islam and so when they r at college they make friends with muslim boys with full arrogance beleiveing they now live in an equal secular society , with themselves having liberal though.
AWAKEN HINDUS AND SIKHS AND CLEAN INDIA FROM THIS MESS
RE:RE:RE:RE:Lastly, what happened to minorities in Bangladesh, pakistan, Indian Kashmir, or the agressiveness of Muslims on day to day basis brings the memory of Medieval India alive
by Chandra Gowda on Mar 05, 2007 01:40 PM Permalink
Hi, muslim are muslims they are they never changed they laugh at hindus saying these people are not united and are waiting when to capture India and make it a muslim country. The stupid Indira Gandy (not Gandhi) they are confusing by usiing the word Gandhi they have no right to use that word, she was a follower of Muslim and was the one responsible for muslims enjoying under minority schemes benefits and for population not under control shame on us we have no time to understand them as well as these stupid politicians just for the sake of votes and power ready to eat anybody shit for votes India anything can happen according to one whims and fancies rules are there
RE:RE:Lastly, what happened to minorities in Bangladesh, pakistan, Indian Kashmir, or the agressiveness of Muslims on day to day basis brings the memory of Medieval India alive
by Perv Sharma on Mar 05, 2007 05:14 PM Permalink
Neha were U born yesterday, grow up can't you see how the last Buddha idols in Afganistan were blown away just some years ago. They had been there long before Islam came to Afganistan.
By the way why don't U go and settle for say 14 years in Pak village with minority Hindu population and then come back to tell us or just go to kashmir for some months. Love to hear your story.
I must add, I don't blame present day Indian Muslims for these, because they themselves were victims and were converted by force.
Moreover, these rulers were from foreign land, or at least traced their origin from foreign land. Even Syed Ahmed Khan who founded Aligarh Muslim University, when asked in London whether he was an Indian, he answered he is NOT, and traced his origin from Arabia (see a book on Aligarh movement aritten by a eminent Muslim intellectual Mushirul Hasan)
Marxists tried to white wash these as a quid-pro-quo because in their ideological blindfold, they thought by making deal with Muslims they can fight against Colonialism (IT ALSO MAY BE MENTIONED, MARXISTS ARE ONE OF THE GREATEST VICTIM OF ISLAM- look at Bangladesh, Pakistan, Central Asia today where Marxists are completely eliminated by force unlike India). Large sections of Muslims, specially Educated class (from Aligarh) were/are in denial. For uneducated Muslims, they think as a Muslim, they cannot condemn acts of another muslim.
INDIAN Muslims must understand that, by denying these atrocities unseen in world scale, they are creating more suspicion, confusion in peoples mind. Not even BJP/RSS blame present day muslims for those.
BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN, WE CAN FORGET THESE HUGE OPPRESSION, DESTRUCTION DURING FOREIGN RULE. THAT LIKE WHITEWASHING HOLOCAUST.
I must add, I don't blame present day Indian Muslims for these, because they themselves were victims and were converted by force.
Moreover, these rulers were from foreign land, or at least traced their origin from foreign land. Even Syed Ahmed Khan who founded Aligarh Muslim University, when asked in London whether he was an Indian, he answered he is NOT an India and traced his origin from Arabia (see a book on Aligarh movement aritten by a eminent Muslim intellectual Mushirul Hasan)
Marxists tried to white wash these. Large sections of Muslims, specially Educated class (from Aligarh) were/are in denial. For uneducated Muslims, they think as a Muslim, they cannot condemn acts of another muslim.
INDIAN Muslims must understand that, by denying these atrocities unseen in world scale, they are creating more suspicion, confusion in peoples mind. Not even BJP/RSS blame present day muslims for those.
BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN, WE CAN FORGET THESE HUGE OPPRESSION, DESTRUCTION DURING FOREIGN RULE. THAT LIKE WHITEWASHING HOLOCAUST.
Folks, let me tell you, I was a Marxist fundamentalist. Never believed what BJP said on medieval atrocities perpetrated on Hindus-Buddhists, indigeneous people by medieval Sultans, Mughals.
The books changed my outlook completely are:
"HINDU TEMPLES :WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM - Vol1"
http://www.voi.org/books/htemples1/
"HINDU TEMPLES :WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM - Vol2"
http://www.voi.org/books/htemples2/
WHAT TILTED THE BALANCE IN FAVOR OF INDIANS IS THE "ORIGINAL SOURCE". NOT ONLY TEMPLES, STUPAS WERE DESTROYED IN 1000S ACROSS INDIA (FROM AFGHANISTAN TO EAST COAST OF CHITTAGAON) SPANNING OVER 1000 YEARS, BUT ALSO IN ALMOST ALL AREAS, BY ALMOST ALL EMPERORS.
