by Mike Gandhi on Mar 11, 2007 01:03 AM | Hide replies
In a polarized world that we live in (which is, sadly, getting ever more polarized now by every minute and hour), we have often assumed that what is good for "our" people had to be bad for the "other" people. A glaring example is the personality of Mughal emperor Aurangzeb, who ruled India for 50 years. Of all the Muslim rulers who ruled vast territories of India from 712 to 1857 C.E., probably no one generates as much controversy as Aurangzeb. He has been hailed as anyone from a "Saintly or Pauper Emperor" to one who "tried hard to convert Hindus into Muslims." Depending on one%u2019s religious rearing, one will favor one view over the other. For example, most Hindus castigate Aurangzeb as a religious Muslim, who was anti-Hindu, who taxed them, who tried to convert them, who discriminated them away from high administrative positions, who interfered in their religious matters. On the other hand, Muslims consider him to be one of the best rulers who was a pious, scholarly, saintly, un-biased, liberal, magnanimous, tolerant, competent and far-sighted ruler. To prove the view of the former group, a close scrutiny of the Government-approved text books in schools and colleges across post-partition India (i.e., after 1947) is sufficient.1 The second group depends mostly on pre-colonial (and some pre-partition) history, land-grant deeds and other available records.
It is difficult to untangle this historical mess without scrutinizing the accusations against Aurangzeb rationally. Fortunately, in recent years quite a few Hindu historians have come out in the open disputing those allegations. For example, historian Babu Nagendranath Banerjee2 rejected the accusation of forced conversion of Hindus by Muslim rulers by stating that if that was their intention then in India today there would not be nearly four times as many Hindus compared to Muslims, despite the fact that Muslims had ruled for nearly a thousand years. Banerjee challenged the Hindu hypothesis that Aurangzeb was anti-Hindu by reasoning that if the latter were truly guilty of such bigotry, how could he appoint a Hindu as his military commander-in-chief? Surely, he could have afforded to appoint a competent Muslim general in that position. Banerjee further stated: "No one should accuse Aurangzeb of being communal minded. In his administration, the state policy was formulated by Hindus. Two Hindus held the highest position in the State Treasury. Some prejudiced Muslims even questioned the merit of his decision to appoint non-Muslims to such high offices. The Emperor refuted that by stating that he had been following the dictates of the Shariah (Islamic Law) which demands appointing right persons in right positions." During Aurangzeb%u2019s long reign of 50 years, many Hindus, notably
RE:THE LIES AGAINST THE MUGHAL EMPEROR AURNAGZEB
by Secular Indian on Mar 11, 2007 07:03 PM Permalink
Aurangzeb was a religious bigot and actively promoted forced conversions of Hindus to Islam. By passing discriminatory laws based on the Shariat he created the conditions for his administrators to actively pursue his forced conversion agenda. He didn't go from house to house to convert people he didn't need to his job was to create the conditions within which he plan would be implemented, thats what rulers do.
e.g.,
From "The Mughal Empire", John F. Richards. Pg. 176
Zealous imperial officers had considerable power to enforce the new edicts, especially among the urban non-warrior groups. At Surat in 1669 the qazi terrorized the entire Bania or Hindu merchant community of that city. He pressured several members of the community to convert to Islam and threatened others with forcible conversions unless they paid ransom money. He extorted other sums to prevent defacement of the Hindu temples and shrines in the city. The qazi forcibly circumsized and converted a Bania serving as a Persian writer or clerk, who then killed himself.
Regarding Jizya ...
.. the Hindus crowded from the gate to the fort to the Jama Masjid in large numbers to for imploring redress ... [Aurangzeb], who was riding on an elephant, could not reach the mosque...Then he ordered the majestic elephants should proceed against them. Some of them [Hindus] were killed ... at last then submitted to pay the Jiziyah.
Aurangzeb's ultimate aim was conversion of non-Muslims to Islam. Whenever possible the emperor gave out robes of honor, cash gifts, and promotions to converts. It quickly became known that conversions was a sure way to the empeor's favor.. In many disputed successions for hereditary local office Aurangzeb chose candidates who had converted to Islam over the rivals. Pragana headmen and qanungos or recordkeepers were targeted especially for pressure to convert.
Regarding Hindus serving for Mughal emperors especially Aurangzeb. These were alliances of convenience (in fact Indians should take note what happens when they fight amongst themselves). Aurangzeb had made the titles hereditary and the Hindu Zamindars wanted to legitimise their rule. Tactically this was a smart move by Aurangzeb to get the Hindus rulers into his orbit by getting them onside and then sorting them out one by one, divide and rule. Jaswant Singh is a case in point, just after he died all temples in his kingdom were destroyed. Earlier the mansabdari system too was created to incorporate these "civilized" and settled centres of society, by Akbar, it was based on sem-meritocracy to enable non-muslims to rise to a position of some power. Aurangzeb simply used it as a divide and rule instrument.
From: "Mughal warfare: Indian Frontiers and Highroads to Empire 1500-1700" by Jos J. L. Gommans. Page 40.
RE:THE LIES AGAINST THE MUGHAL EMPEROR AURNAGZEB
by Secular Indian on Mar 11, 2007 07:06 PM Permalink
The Jaziyah argument cuts both ways, if as the author claims that it's a tax that non-Muslims have to pay for not joining the army, then that forces the poorer sections of society to convert or join the arm y therefore inflating the Hindu numbers in the army. This conclusively proves that the whole aim of Aurangzeb's re imposition of Jaziyah was win-win for him. Get the Hindus to convert or at least get them to fight other Hindus and convert them.
you will get the answer if you read sachar committee report. more than 10 million muslim killed by anti national gang like rss, shiv sena, bazrang dal, vhp etc.
You know one senior judge recommend to death penality for corrupt and anti nationals. I think this is time to implemnt EMPEROR AURANGZEB'S STRICT RULES to punish anti nationals like Lalu, Badal, Sukhram, Dawood, Jailalita, Harshad Mehta, Rajiv Gandhi, Fernandses, Bangarro Lakhman, Bal Thakrey, Thugadia, Ashok Singahl, Imam Bukhari, mulam, mayawati and all corrept leaders those of looting India. Any suggestion pandey jee to save bharat mata ??????
RE:TRUTH ABOUT THE AURANGZEB
by Secular Indian on Mar 11, 2007 07:32 PM Permalink
Given that you are a big fan of Aurangzeb and his methods ,Porkistan and Beggardesh are currently it's inheritors, they don't seem to have achieved much in the last 60 odd years. They have an abysmal record of treating minorities, if you abused Islam in Porkistan or Beggardesh the way you abuse Hinduism here in India, one can only imagine your fate.
RE:TRUTH ABOUT THE AURANGZEB
by tribhuwan pandey on Mar 11, 2007 06:42 PM Permalink
yeah Suggestion is simple and proven. Remember Mustafa Kamal Ata Turk of Turkey who made Muslim Dominated Arab country as Modern TUrkey with Democracy. remenber Indonesia always remebeing its glorious past which is not Muslim. Remeber Dubai most Progressive Arab because of its liberal policies. as for as Law and order is concerned I agree there should be one book of laws and code irrespective of cast creed faith religonn sex or status. Why to opt Aurangzeb Most controversial Ruler of Indian History we can take Samudragupta/ Chandragupta Muraya/ Balban/ SherShah Suri/ Akbar/ Shivaji/ Chand Bibi/ Durgawati/ and lots other if required i will write about each individaul. The Nation Is India Call it Bharat Mata(Madre Watan)/Hindusthan/ Hindutan/ Bharat; what ever you wish it all is about feeiling and regard. One More thing Mr. Mike Gandhi Always Remember that any indian has his lost refugee in one country only that is india. Remeber Paki Mohajirs/ Bangaldeshi Mushlims/ Indian Muslims and their Plight in Arab Countries is lke their Indian Hindu Counter part. So Dear Stop Thinking on the Lines of Marxists Idiaots and use ur Skills to Tell the reality of History. GOt IT! as far as RSS/ Bajrangdal/is concerned so every relogion has this type of elemnets but These outfits stand no where when compared to Al Quaida/Talibans/Lasker e Jahngvi and Allah Knows how many other. As far as Aurangzeb or any Dictator is concerned always remebr that those who live by Sword are killed by Sword. Sddam hussain/Gaddfi(lost His family)are not very old examples.
RE:TRUTH ABOUT THE AURANGZEB
by chaitanya kumar on Mar 11, 2007 05:51 PM Permalink
gandu, for the life of you, you would never understand wat Bharat Mata means. So don't degrade it. Stick to glorifying Aurangzeb.
RE:RE:TRUTH ABOUT THE AURANGZEB
by Mike Gandhi on Mar 11, 2007 06:08 PM Permalink
I UNDERSTAND BETTER THAN YOU PEOPLE. FOR THAT ONLY ALAMGIRI JUSTICE CAN SAVE INDIA AND CAN PROTECT BHARATMATA
MIKE GANDI DO NOT MAKE BAKWAS. as such how caome Shivaji/Guru Govind Singh and others become anti National in 17 th century when preecisely there was no concept of anti national or Prop national. Further do Not gorget that Maharahtra was not with Mughal Ruler it was with Golkunda( former bahmani empire) . only in late 19th Century concept of Nationalism was enthused in India. Further Islam does not have any concept of Nationalism it runs either on non Muslim world or Muslim World; concept. if brutal activities of AurANGZEB is justified under name of Nationality then Hitler or Mussolini or Bush or any Dictator is right on same Logic. Right Mr.Gandi.entire period of Aurangzeb can be summoned up as period of a ruler who was total fanatic. and who tried to kill any one who was came in his way. were His father/ Brothers/Son all were anti national. if so he was born in a fmily of anti National elements and so all heritage of this anti national dynasty must be destoyed and keeping the same logic if Babri Mosque is destroyed then what is wrong after all you are saying MiGHT IS RIGHT. and so all killings in Ugoslavia/Iraqetc. are Right. SO Israiel is also right as it fighting with 16 anti national (for Israiel of course) since its inception. Arab history is clear indcator that barring a one or two countries all are involved in fighting. why the pucca followers of Isalm can not demonstrate the concept of Nationality,Democracy Simply because it is not in threir Blood.
Aurangzeb was the greatest ruler. The killing for Guru Tej Bahadur or shivaji sons. That was political and not religious. Majority of scholars wrote it. You people have no sense just barking like dogs only RSS slogans. Keep mouth shut you Hindu Zealots. The Indian Government killed more than 200,000 Two Lakhs Kashmiri Muslims. Dont talk bloody fools. In the democratic and Independent country you Killed more than 10,000 muslims in Gujarat. Mass murders do not talk humanism or humanity. Clean your house.
RE:Your people are feeding what your mentor want The RSS GANG
by Perv Sharma on Mar 12, 2007 07:01 AM Permalink
I thought that Mullah's only teach how to bark in Madrasas but this one has come on to the streets as well.
RE:Your people are feeding what your mentor want The RSS GANG
by Perv Sharma on Mar 12, 2007 09:46 AM Permalink
Amjad Mullah
Looks like U have eaten Pork.
Aurangzeb killed Guru Tej and Shivaji's sons, it was political is it? Ok. Then killing of more than 2 lac Muslims in Kashmir is also political and will continue because these violent muslims have pushed out more than 3 lac Kashmir Hindus . You can go and try to stop it.
RE:Your people are feeding what your mentor want The RSS GANG
by chaitanya kumar on Mar 11, 2007 05:15 PM Permalink
you are the one writing erroneous statements. It makes you a stupid guy.
RE:RE:Your people are feeding what your mentor want The RSS GANG
by amjadhussain on Mar 11, 2007 05:18 PM Permalink
It is not erroneous statements it fact-file and recorded. you can say anthying Hindu zealots, blood mongers you cannot deny the facts.
RE:Your people are feeding what your mentor want The RSS GANG
by tribhuwan pandey on Mar 11, 2007 05:23 PM Permalink
abe if you are again talking nonsense then even allah can not reform yuo. Remembr Gujrat 2002 roit is not only one there is a legacy of roits in Muslim prone Area. right From MOpla, Kanpur, Calcutta, Bombay in Pre independence arena to Mass Murder of Hindus and Sikhs in 1947. Most of the Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh are aliminated or converted only because MiGHT is RiGHT. if this will be theory then be ready to suffer some where ekse after all Every Action has it s reaction. You recall og Kashmir why do Not you talk about Kashmiri Pandits who are living in Exile in their own Country.Because they are Non Muslims only so. if one action is right for one then so would be for others also. No Arab Country Cried foul over Demolishing of Bamiyan Budhha by Talibans. You fools do not have any moral right to cry for Gujrat. Kasmir was with india and will remain with India. and again on the principal of Nationalism any Hard action done by govermant /Army can not be challenged . this was the basis on which you were defending atrocities of Aurangzeb if required for Country entire valley can be Bombed and eliminated.
The actuals which brought by Aryans for their people and still they are in their Hands. These books are not allowed to read by any St/Sc/Dalits. These books talk about for Brahmins and Higher Castes ARAYAN WHO INVADED INDIA. The books knows as San%u0101tana dharma (the eternal law), Vaidika dharma (law of the Vedas), Arya dharma (the noble religion), or M%u0101nava dharma (the religion of mankind
RE:RE:AURANGAZEB RULE
by amjadhussain on Mar 11, 2007 04:56 PM Permalink
prev Sharama you are also foreigner. You people are bloody Arayan race. They make all the problem. The same race in India, Israeal and in Germany Nazis, Serbs.
We should clean the dirt will go from the earth and people can leave in peace.
RE:RE:RE:AURANGAZEB RULE
by Secular Indian on Mar 11, 2007 06:52 PM Permalink
The whole Aryan Invasion nonsense was invented by Max Mueller a bible literalist.
RE:RE:RE:RE:AURANGAZEB RULE
by chaitanya kumar on Mar 11, 2007 07:00 PM Permalink
europeans started this aryan, the "white supreior" theories in 19th and early 20th centiries which was perverted by Hitler to kill the jews. Whole europe must take the blame for Hitler's actions.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AURANGAZEB RULE
by chaitanya kumar on Mar 11, 2007 07:02 PM Permalink
and he also killed romas and many others. romas were people who migrated from india thousand years ago to west and were later termed as gypsies.
RE:RE:RE:AURANGAZEB RULE
by Perv Sharma on Mar 12, 2007 09:48 AM Permalink
You are right about cleaning dirt and the World is cleaning the Ismalic Dirt forever. You are welcome to join Israel, America etc.
IF RSs/VHP were that bad they should have by now converted every muslim in Gujarat to Hinduism or the majority of Muslims should have fled Gujarat.
IF whole of India is Hindu Majority subject to the way VHP/RSS operate we should have muslims running helter / shelter.
Funny it sounds rather in Hindu Majority Country you have Hindus from Islamic majority Kashmir running for their lives and living a horrible life in refugee camps. In a Hindu Majority Country you have Hindu Refugees for the last 20 years - they can't even live peacefully due to these islamic followers and these islamic followers want to know why VHP/RSS is becoming fundamentalist.
IF Hindus start to even defend themselves these Islamic folllowers feel threatened ?
RE:RSS/VHP Myths of Mullah Followes
by Mike Gandhi on Mar 11, 2007 04:27 PM Permalink
Before implement on Muslim this experiment you first accept the Dalits as hindus. Brahmin do not have moral right to speak about India as they are originaly outsider from Iran, Syria, Armenia, Egypt. Since the Independence RSS gang and goons trying to suppressed muslims like they did with dalits. But this time they are facing marshal race(muslis). After killings of millions muslims they cannot drive out muslims from India. Because all the muslims are patriot. They are not deserting like upper cast hindus to USA, UK, AURTRALIA, GERMANY ETC. These upper cast hindus are coward and traiters.
RE:RE:RSS/VHP Myths of Mullah Followes
by chaitanya kumar on Mar 11, 2007 04:43 PM Permalink
on one hand you cry foul at possible extermination of Indian Muslims led by right wing groups and on the other side you talk about marshal race. Don't forget that whole Indian military and rest other security forces are dominated by Hindus and Sikhs. It would take very less time to finish off Islam in India. Siege around all the Muslim ghettos through deliberate planning, and each will be flushed out one by one and sent to Allah. That is why you buggers are scared about Hindus uniting. Marshal race my foot.
RE:RE:RE:RSS/VHP Myths of Mullah Followes
by chaitanya kumar on Mar 11, 2007 07:08 PM Permalink
You are just a crazy guy. That is how much i value your statements.
RE:RE:RSS/VHP Myths of Mullah Followes
by Perv Sharma on Mar 12, 2007 07:33 AM Permalink
What is patriotism in your Islam? Towards your country or towards your religion?
Regarding Patriotism I agree that just been a Hindu doesn't mean he is patriotic. The biggest examples are Mullayam Yadav and Party out to Appease the Muslims with reservation so that they can rule. History is full of such people who have aligned with enemies right from Pritvi's Father-in-law.
Regarding we upper castes deserting to European countries. We are more patriotic than U believe. We are working hard abroad and then send that money to India as a foreign exhange which is one of main factors in stabilizing the economy. Only a strong economy can eradicate most of the problems and not the teachings in your madrasas.
Mike I again pose the questions to U because you are saying blah blah about islam ..
The reason for the death of Shivaji's Son and the death of some of the Sikh guru's?
Who donated land for the formation of Pakistan
Who lost the 1971 war? How many POWS captured? How did the Hindu Army treat the Islamic POWS?
How much land was again donated back after this war?
How were the Indian POWS treated in Kargil War?
How did Hindu Army treat the dead Islamic Soldiers and what was the reaction of Islamic Pakistan?
Regarding Aurangzeb being a true Islamic follower - compare which religion is true to human kind if you consider Aurangzeb a true islamic follower by this example .
The tortured death given to Shivaji's Son whereas the Maratha soldiers on entering Aurangzeb's tent found him praying and therefore decided against killing him at that moment but to show him how near to him they had come they took away his Emperor's Diamond from the top of the Tent.
Hindus have shown similar cases for Mohammed Ghouri 1000 years ago when a defeated Ghouri was allowed to go back.
History was repeated in 1971 when Hindu Army again treated the enemy Islamic forces of Pakistan with dignity and allowed them to return. The surrender is till today the most number of POWs in a war.
Just compare how the hindus treated those islamic soldiers killed in Kargil and how the hindu POWS were treated by these Islamic followers.
A religion is great only if it teaches you basic hunman values which unfortunately Islam lacks.
Aurangzeb was the greatest king among the Mughals and ruled over the largest territory of any ruler in Indian history. His empire extended from Kabul in present Afghanistan to areas in South India bordering Madurai in present Tamil Nadu State. He was a kind-hearted man and led a simple life. He was a just ruler and forgave his enemies. He abolished all non-Islamic practices at his court; abolished Ilahi calendar introduced by Akbar and reinstated Islamic lunar calendar. He enforced laws against gambling and drinking. He abolished taxes on commodities and inland transport duties. He forbade the practice of Emperor being weighed in gold and silver on birthdays. Aurangzeb did not draw salary from state treasury but earned his own living by selling caps he sewed and selling copies of the Quran he copied by hand.
Birth and Education
Mohyuddin Muhammad Aurangzeb was born on October 24, 1618 CE at Dohad in the Bombay Presidency. He was the third son of Shah Jahan and Mumtaz Mahal. Aurangzeb was nine years old when his father became Emperor of India. From that time on, his regular education began. He got good education in religion as well as the ordinary education of that time. He memorized the whole Quran and was taught to write in a beautiful handwriting. He also developed a taste for poetry and could make verses. He also learned the Arabic language.
Military Training
His military training began by age 16. When Aurangzeb was seventeen, he was made the Viceroy of Deccan. Aurangzeb worked well as the Viceroy of Deccan. This didn't still bring peace to his mind. He wanted a purpose of life. After some thought, he turned to the Quran as a light for his life.
Life as a Faqir
In May 1644 CE, he gave up his duties as the Viceroy of Deccan and left to live in the wild region of Western Ghats. Here he lived for several months as a Faqir (poor, simple man). He took up a life of prayer and self-disciplined life.
Anger of his Father
This action of Aurangzeb brought great anger to his father, the Emperor. He was so shocked that his son became a Faqir that he stopped all his allowances and took his estates. This didn't bother Aurangzeb at first. After some thought though, Aurangzeb decided to go back to his family. For some months, Aurangzeb lived in Agra with disgrace. His mother and sisters felt sorry for him but the Emperors displeasure was hard to go.
Regaining his Rank
In November 1644 CE, his sister, Jahan Ara, who was the eldest and best-loved daughter of the Emperor, got a terrible burn and when she recovered, the Emperor, who was so happy, could not refuse her anything. At her request, Aurangzeb was raised back to his rank. The prince was again the Viceroy of Deccan.
RE:RE:Mullah followers
by Secular Indian on Mar 11, 2007 04:28 PM Permalink
Aurangzeb was a religious bigot and actively promoted forced conversions of Hindus to Islam. By passing discriminatory laws based on the Shariat he created the conditions for his administrators to actively pursue his forced conversion agenda. He didn't go from house to house to convert people he didn't need to his job was to create the conditions within which he plan would be implemented, thats what rulers do.
e.g.,
From "The Mughal Empire", John F. Richards. Pg. 176
Zealous imperial officers had considerable power to enforce the new edicts, especially among the urban non-warrior groups. At Surat in 1669 the qazi terrorized the entire Bania or Hindu merchant community of that city. He pressured several members of the community to convert to Islam and threatened others with forcible conversions unless they paid ransom money. He extorted other sums to prevent defacement of the Hindu temples and shrines in the city. The qazi forcibly circumsized and converted a Bania serving as a Persian writer or clerk, who then killed himself.
Regarding Jizya ...
.. the Hindus crowded from the gate to the fort to the Jama Masjid in large numbers to for imploring redress ... [Aurangzeb], who was riding on an elephant, could not reach the mosque...Then he ordered the majestic elephants should proceed against them. Some of them [Hindus] were killed ... at last then submitted to pay the Jiziyah.
Aurangzeb's ultimate aim was conversion of non-Muslims to Islam. Whenever possible the emperor gave out robes of honor, cash gifts, and promotions to converts. It quickly became known that conversions was a sure way to the empeor's favor.. In many disputed successions for hereditary local office Aurangzeb chose candidates who had converted to Islam over the rivals. Pragana headmen and qanungos or recordkeepers were targeted especially for pressure to convert.
Regarding Hindus serving for Mughal emperors especially Aurangzeb. These were alliances of convenience (in fact Indians should take note what happens when they fight amongst themselves). Aurangzeb had made the titles hereditary and the Hindu Zamindars wanted to legitimise their rule. Tactically this was a smart move by Aurangzeb to get the Hindus rulers into his orbit by getting them onside and then sorting them out one by one, divide and rule. Jaswant Singh is a case in point, just after he died all temples in his kingdom were destroyed. Earlier the mansabdari system too was created to incorporate these "civilized" and settled centres of society, by Akbar, it was based on sem-meritocracy to enable non-muslims to rise to a position of some power. Aurangzeb simply used it as a divide and rule instrument.
From: "Mughal warfare: Indian Frontiers and Highroads to Empire 1500-1700" by Jos J. L. Gommans. Page 40.
RE:Mullah followers
by Mike Gandhi on Mar 11, 2007 04:37 PM Permalink
Shivaji, Sikh guru gobindsing, dara shikoh etcs. were traiters and collaborators of enemy.In the american language they were enemy combatants. In Britsh point of view they were like Baghat sing, Ashwak Ullah Khan, Chandra Shekhar Azad and in the present situation of India they were like, Mabbool But, Afzal Guru, Dawood Ibrahim and Chota shakeel. That time they were anti national and enemies of Nation. Any ruler, Govt would have to do what Emporer Aurangzeb did. If you still dont understand and not accepting the truth then you are lost inteligence case and lost conscience.
RE:RE:Mullah followers
by Secular Indian on Mar 11, 2007 06:58 PM Permalink
There is a difference between maintaining law and order and promoting a religious agenda. Aurangzeb's law and order problem was due to his religious agenda. Which was to convert Sikhs and Hindus to Islam.
