RE:RE:Moahmmed Ahmed
by JATIN HALDANKAR on Mar 13, 2007 03:34 PM Permalink
very smartly you avoided the question put forward by sharmaji... and claim Islam is global.. I disagree islam is global .. it divide world into Muslim and Non Muslim world..
this is can be proved by various example given to non muslim population in Islamic world for example - lack of places of wordship are found in saudi-specific in holy citis of muslim ...barring few exceptions -coutries like dubai ..
Being Indian the way you guys are defending aurangzeb ,,who is considered as tormentor by majority of Indian hindus--such example are found in pakistan and thier history books...
bhai-chara good will se banata hain !!! hawa mein nahi !!!
RE:RE:Moahmmed Ahmed
by Perv Sharma on Mar 13, 2007 03:59 PM Permalink
are Bihari babu
If your islam preaches global and since ahmed u are learned U know how large India is and different languages spoken in this Hindu Majority places. But atleast they are living as one country for last fifty years. Since ur Islam preaches no boundaries then why don't the islamic countries from Arab to Pak since atleast they r neigbours form one Islamic country.
So talk about Justice, honesty, truth etc. should the Hindus only do it every time. Is this what is taught in Quran that people from other religion should practice and Islam do the opposite.
Why Bihari U live in India but your Heart is still in Porkistan. Didn't you see how in 1971 war the Hindu army treated with dignity the islamic porkistan POWS.
Were you and your teachings of Quran sleeping when the indian POWS were tortured and then their tortured bodies thrown away in the snow.
Does your Quran teach you to turn a blind eye to the good of other religion. Didn't you see how the Indian army still buried the dirty dead Islamist in the Kargil War.
RE:RE:Moahmmed Ahmed
by Sachin Agarwal on Mar 13, 2007 04:10 PM Permalink
By being global does mean that all should become Muslims ?? If Islam is global then why democracy is not there in any of the Islamic country ?? Why other people are not allowed to worship as per their faith including idol worshipping (In most of the ISLAMIC Countries Idol worshipping is banned)?? Does bhaichara means that everybody should become muslim or you are our enemy ?? Is is what ISLAM teaches ?? I am not sure but Mr. Mohammaed Ahmed sounding so. If Islam is gloable then why are you fighting with all the people who are not Muslims. You are saying that boundries are in the mind and hearts they why don't you recognize that GOD is one and we might worship him in several ways. Does Calling GOD only the name of ALLAH is not limiting him. If idol worshipping is "ANTI ALLAH" then why ALMIGHTLY ALLAH created this word with full of IDOLS (Mind you all the human being are living Idols).
Would appreciate if you can come out of eutopia and consider the fact that a person as cruel as Aurangzeb should not be appraised and it does not matter whether he was a Muslim or a Hindu.
RE:RE:RE:Moahmmed Ahmed
by mohammed ahmed on Mar 13, 2007 04:25 PM Permalink
mere dost sachin,
actually, ignorant people start with AurangZeb... go to blame jahangeer, Babar, Tughlaq, Allauddin, Ghouri, Ghaznawi and even start unnecessary comments on Mohammad(SAW), Jesus, Moses etc.
which is not at all true. In fact they fought against EVILS and now evil-agents try to defame them.
Muslims talk against any evil-doer, even if he is a Muslim. like Yazeed, Sufi Sarmad, Saddam, Najeebullah, Rushdie, Tasleema etc are/were criticised due to their EVIL-DEEDS.
RE:RE:RE:Moahmmed Ahmed
by rafiuddin farooqui on Mar 13, 2007 04:28 PM Permalink
There is no compulsion in Islam read Quran ask me I will send Digital Quran for your study and information. Secondly Islam gives you simple message that. Islam and The Holdy Quran is not new religion. Allah sent many holy books and prophets, messengers, warners and reformers to all nation. After departing of them the people amend, distorted, changed according to their convenience, means, desires and the real message lost. The books fabricated, added,deleted, hide and corrupted. the last and final message from Allah comes The Holy Quran is the last revelation from Allah this for all Human beings. Call people for the right path and it is up to you.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Moahmmed Ahmed
by Secular Indian on Mar 14, 2007 09:10 AM Permalink
I've read the Koran http://www.quranbrowser.com and most of it is full of contradictions and hatred for non-believers.
RE:RE:RE:Moahmmed Ahmed
by Mike Gandhi on Mar 13, 2007 05:19 PM Permalink
YOU ARE LOST INTELLIGENCE CASE. IN DUBAI, MUSCAT, BAHRAIN, KUWAIT, YEMEN, MALAYSIS, INDONESIA HAVE PLENTY OF TEMPLES. DONT READ HATE ACADEMY (SHISHU MANDIRS OR RSS)SYLLABUS.
RE:RE:RE:Moahmmed Ahmed
by bharatiya on Mar 14, 2007 01:23 PM Permalink
Perv Bhai,
Hats off to you. They are not able to face your questions. All you can expect from these s@$t brained suicide bombers is constant denial & more sh%t about Hinduism.
The Newton Laws said when there is action then there is reaction. And these action and reaction chain will continue. The chain reactions will continue and when reverse reation comes then there is no room for you to escape because that reaction mush more stronger than the first one.
RE:Modi's Newton Theory of Action and Reaction
by Perv Sharma on Mar 13, 2007 04:02 PM Permalink
Very right RAfi Doctor
The result of a stronger is that ISlamic Afganisatn is in ruins and no room for them to escape - then Lebanon and now the turn by turn they will tumble next is Iraq
I appreciate explanation but Action and Reaction theory practicing before the Independence by these RSS and Hindu Mahasabha people. This the game of these Gangs to whom you advocating. The RSS and Other Hindu Gangs are Semi-Government Organizations. Always Government agencies full support of Killing of Muslims in Gujarat and other places. The Government agencies plays bad role. In Gujarat whole government did it. The Ashoka Great emporer killed millions of innocent peoples and after finding Hinduism Teaching behind all these heinous crime. He shunned Hinduism and converted to Buddhism. The Great Ashoka whose Chakra represent in our national flag.
RE:Newton theory of Modi
by JATIN HALDANKAR on Mar 13, 2007 02:53 PM Permalink
There was no religion called hindu then ...hindu is civilization- a way of life ..In hindus you will find many practising buddhist .. buddha never formed religion ..he showed people a way to lead life ..the beauty of being hindu is that you can follow any philosphy for salvation-its your personal choice and its not forced upon you by some doctrine ,..but still you can be hindu ..this is tolerance aspect of being hindu...
RE:RE:RE:Newton theory of Modi
by rafiuddin farooqui on Mar 13, 2007 04:21 PM Permalink
You people are very funny. Telling funny stories and deceiving people. You fools think others are fools, this is the tradgedy of you.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Newton theory of Modi
by JATIN HALDANKAR on Mar 14, 2007 03:09 PM Permalink
discuss with me rafiq- by calling me fool you are trying to escape :)
just trying to put some thoughts about one of the oldest living civilization of world (refined over 3000 years) in your brain, provided it is open enough...
RE:Why you people against Polygamy
by JATIN HALDANKAR on Mar 13, 2007 02:40 PM Permalink
we live in modern world and changed ourself accordingly,... we dont so see fesiable /proper to have multiple wives and many childrens in todays world ..so we dont follow it ..this point only proves tat we reform ourself with changing times unlike you..
RE:RE:Why you people against Polygamy
by rafiuddin farooqui on Mar 13, 2007 04:12 PM Permalink
The divine religious teaching is a Law best suits Human Soceity. That will be applicable at all times. Islam says the same thing. The God sent Holy books and prophets, messengers, warners, reformers and sents to every nation. But these people amended as per their wish convinience and desire. So all these books changed, fabricated, added, removed and hide. The Islam is the most moderate religion and The Holy Quran is the last testament which is sent for Human Beings of the world. Muslims says the same thing this book for you Hindus, Christian and so on so on. Accept the truth and shunned falsehood.
RE:RE:RE:Why you people against Polygamy
by anurag bhargava on Mar 14, 2007 03:30 PM Permalink
are bhai tumhare allah kabhi car mein nahi baithe honge aur na hi hawai jahaj se chale honge to tum log bhi bailgadi aur ghode par hi chalo
RE:Why you people against Polygamy
by Perv Sharma on Mar 13, 2007 02:49 PM Permalink
Good that you Dr Rafi are reading Hindu texts. Then you must have REad about Lord RAm as well. He married only once to show to Human beings the life of true living. That is why he is the most ideal King to Hindus because of his teachings and preachings. The Hindus have gone on to live with the modern age and its requirements whereas you muslims still want to follow the barbaric Arab Laws
RE:RE:Why you people against Polygamy
by rafiuddin farooqui on Mar 13, 2007 04:04 PM Permalink
The guy could not protected one wife.To get back her he needs the help of Hanuman (the Monkeys God). Killing his brother. Ravana took sita for just to praying for 14 years. You people lives in fools paradise. In India daily Hundreds of rape cases reported. A man so powerful and wise if he took a lady for lust he did nothing for 14years. Otherwise Ravana was a great man he rescue the lady and took with him keep with respect for years as respect guest with full luxury. The story suits to you. Do not tell other funny stories.
RE:RE:RE:Why you people against Polygamy
by raghav bhatt on Mar 13, 2007 04:36 PM Permalink
Dear friend, Why did Mohamad ran to Madina? In search of God or to save his life. You people are living in Glass house & throwing stones to other.Pl. read Ramayana carefully without any bias. You may get some real knowledge. Ravna took sita as prisoner ony for 12 months(last year of the 14 years exile). Rama himself fought with Ravana & killed him. Taking help of others is sin? You Mohamad fought all the bloody battles alone or there were others to help him?
RE:RE:RE:RE:Why you people against Polygamy
by amjadhussain on Mar 13, 2007 08:08 PM Permalink
Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) WAS NOT God. He never claims he was God. He just i am the messenger and servant of Allah. I bring the mercy and good news for whole human world.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Why you people against Polygamy
by Perv Sharma on Mar 14, 2007 04:40 AM Permalink
RAm was born as a simple man.
Since you have again started the debate with Gods? Isn't your prophet the one who started his Career with First Looting a Caravan. No doubt you all are only following in his footsteps
RE:RE:RE:Why you people against Polygamy
by Perv Sharma on Mar 14, 2007 08:10 AM Permalink
What about your prophet? He himself couldn't mary a virgin and promised all the jehadis Virgins in Heaven. What was the reason that he doubted there are no virgin in Islam?
RE:RE:RE:RE:Why you people against Polygamy
by rafiuddin farooqui on Mar 14, 2007 01:38 PM Permalink
Pyare Perv you peoples all brainless-Parrots talking same thing. Babu Behari read good books the Jew writer when he was writing 100 greats man of the world he gave Prophet Moahmmed (PBUH) number one and wrote after reading the bio of Moahmmed (pbuh) I am compelled to give him first rank and he is the first person in the world who leads on all front of life. Shut-up your mount dont bark dogs in a same tone repeat repeat.
those were the days of military rule. subjects and citizens wished to have the strongest and the wisest as their ruler. everybody had got a right to prove himself to be the best ruler. and only war between the different candidates could judge, who would be the best. no matter what relationship the candidates had between themselves.
We know that a state, a kingdom or a government is for basically giving peace and justice in a society. Peace can be hampered for a while to bring a larger justice....like a situation of war. and again little injustice can be justified to bring and keep the larger peace around.....like a situation of curfew in any area.
and the expansion of an empire is also not unjust. Mughal emperors did it like Ashoka and Alexander-the Greats conquered lands and made empires. AurangZeb in particular might have been more intolerant towards the injustices of Brahmins on the lower castes.... and also towards the social/spiritual/physical evil acts/rituals that were prevalent in the temples of those days. he had got his own personality and methodology........ open to critism from all. but making this issue a tool of condeming all muslim kings and religion of Islam is a sheer foolishness.... and even dangerous for society as a whole.
when i say..... AurangZeb in particular might have been more intolerant towards the injustices......... i mean.... it's natural to be INTOLERANT towards larger INJUSTICES..... in fact it's desired..... and so.... jehad is needed. JIHAD means organised effort/struggle to remove/kill the badness from SELF....SYSTYEM....SURROUNDING and if needed those MEN who comes on the way of that effort. GANDHI/BOSE/BHAGAT/TERESA/BABA-AMTE/MILITARY GENERALS.... all did or are doing JIHAD their own way.
We forget that AurangZeb took Zakat from Muslims as Jizya from NonMuslims. No Muslim king went to Kerala/Srilanka.... but think how Islam reached there... and in fact muslims are 30% in population. Same is the case for Indonesia and Malayshya.... where 40 crore muslims live. which aurangzeb went to Indonasia/Malaysia Kerala/SriLanka......etc..???????? who converted Jaipal Yogi/Cat-Stevens/ Yusuf Yuhana/Kamala Das/ AR-Rahman/ ClassusClayMd.Ali?????????????????
Every body will say ....... this is the case of ONLY TRUTH PREVAILS..... whether Rome... india.... persia..... russia... africa etc. and the EVIL had to go ..... like Ravanism... Chengism.. Temoorism.... Hitlerism... Stalinism... Britishism... Saddamism etc. In future also the EVIL will have to go.... Bush/CIA... Israel/JewishPlot.... Musharraf/ISI Modism/Advanism or any evil... all will go.
Only the good names of Taoism/Confucionism/Rama/Krishna /Abraham/Moses/Jesus/Mohammad/Hazrat Nizamuddin/Chishti Ajmeri/ BahadurShahZafar / Bose /Gandhi will remain and PREVAIL. AND ABOUT OSAMA? HE is like our Bose/Bhagat. Fighter against cruel imperialists.
RE:NEVER FORGET THE BASICS, my freinds.......
by Padmakumar Menon on Mar 13, 2007 02:17 PM Permalink
Please note that Francois was talking about only Aurangazeb but what about other rulers and even after centuries think about today's muslims, if they get a chance they will destroy the whole in the name of jihad even then intolerant people like mohamed will say that this is required...jehad is needed
RE:RE:NEVER FORGET THE BASICS, my freinds.......
by rafiuddin farooqui on Mar 13, 2007 03:33 PM Permalink
Mr Padam Kumar Menon you are new to the forum read all discussion. The Francois Gautier is a fraud. The person who stayed 30 years and close student of Indian History and specialize on Aurangzeb. He doesnt know FARMANS the most authentic edicts of Aurangzeb. From where he get this FARHANS. If this guy saying FARMANS to FARHANS then he total fraud and bogus. He is just serving the interest of RSS Gang and getting rewards like VISH KANNIYA AND MATERIAL, MONEY LIQUOUR AND LUXURY LIVING INDIA.
RE:NEVER FORGET THE BASICS, my freinds.......
by Secular Indian on Mar 14, 2007 09:16 AM Permalink
Let me quote a true scholar of Islam, Ayatollah Khomeini not some nitwit apologist that can impress people that lack the courage to critically examine their own dogma, but someone who knew Islam better than most muslims.
"Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled and incapicated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of countries so that writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world.
But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world ... Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! ... People can't be made obedient except with the sword .. There are hundreds of other [Koranic] psalms and Hadiths urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war ? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim."
I don't think I need to add to such a clear and well articulated understanding of the Islamic religion. This is a dictionary doctrine of Jihad. If the Koran is the word of God as Muslims believe then who is being more logical Khomeini or the Muslims that pretend otherwise.
You Islam Followers still have to learn from hinduism about how live peacefully. Hindus despite worshipping so many diffent forms of a God still never have killed each or forced the others to follow their God. Even today the Gujarat riots were not for forcefull conversion or to force worshippin one particular god but only in Retaliation. It was only an reaction to an action.
RE:Islam still has to learn
by mohammed ahmed on Mar 13, 2007 12:50 PM Permalink
PERV SHARMA BHAIYAAAAAAAAA
aap ka sense, science, and conscience all are doubtful.
you are talking the language of MODI, ADVANI, HITLER and the likes.
it seems you are justifying the acts of 9/11, 7/11, bombay blasts, madrid bombings, london tube bombings. ALL WERE REACTIONS. isn't it?
to some extent, these acts fulfilled purposes:
9/11: WORLD KNEW WHAT AMERICA IS DOING IN OIL-RICH COUNTRIES.
7/11: PEOPLE HAVE KNOWN THE CONSEQUENCES OF GENOCIDE OF PARTICULAR COMMUNITY.
bombay blasts: MUMBAI SAW NO MORE RIOTS. NO MORE THAKREYS GOT DEVELOPED.
madrid bombings: SPAIN WITHDREW THEIR FORCES FROM IRAQ NEXT WEEK.
london bombings: JACK STRAW AND MANY PUBLIC WITHDREW SUPPORT FROM TONY BLAIR FOR IRAQ WAR.
and who did the godhra, no body knows. You know where the shiv-sainiks were coming from????? FROM BABRI MASJID SITE doing all those drama under shame-shame BJP govts.
THESE ANTI-SOCIAL GROUPS COULD NEVER GO TO border to FIGHT AGAINST PAK or CHINA or SRILANKA. they only can make unnecessary noise and voilence in their own country.
RE:RE:Islam still has to learn
by JATIN HALDANKAR on Mar 13, 2007 01:03 PM Permalink
mohammed ahmed ,aap ka reply dekh kar aap ka bhi sense, science, and conscience kuch jyada accha nahi lag raha ...you are talking language of Bin laden and AL zawahari here :)
RE:RE:RE:RE:Islam still has to learn
by JATIN HALDANKAR on Mar 13, 2007 01:18 PM Permalink
they(bose & bhagat) never murder inncoent civilian on such large scale to achive thier politcal goals..
we all know wat osama did in WTC (9/11) ?? please dont justify it saying he wanted to gain world attention towards america interference
in Middle east.
it seems you guys forgot-efforts taken by america lead Nato forces in yogoslavia to save muslim from presecution from christions militant .. AMerica and NATO coutries are christian majority countries(for your information )..give me one example where muslim coutry has done for some non muslim coutry..where it has to fight its own religious people ...
RE:RE:Islam still has to learn
by JATIN HALDANKAR on Mar 13, 2007 02:22 PM Permalink
Instead of blaming America, Brahmins, imperialists, shivsena,RSS etc... why dont you look within ... may be problem is with you guys...
RE:RE:RE:RE:Islam still has to learn
by Sachin Agarwal on Mar 13, 2007 04:21 PM Permalink
so when RSS and Shiv Sena fight backs they are evil and when OSAMA kills innocent people he is like Bhagat or Bos, wha wha what a thinking
RE:RE:RE:RE:Islam still has to learn
by Perv Sharma on Mar 14, 2007 08:15 AM Permalink
Which muslims and where muslims? Every muslim country does only what America needs? Don't forget the Ur Islamic friendly neigbour Pakistan? They live by donations from America
You followers of One god can't even live peacefully amongst yourselves on the basis of Religion. Giving examples of Ancient History of Indian King fighting each other doesn't in any way make sense with the discussion going on about Islam and its forcefull conversion. These Hindu kings didn't force people to worship one particular God.
A person who killed small children of Guru Govind Singh only because they refused to convert to Islam. We don't need more examples than this one to know about Aurangzeb as a religious person or a as a Human Being.
Since you are saying U are so Learned what and Islam is this and that. What about you Islamic Pakistanis in 1971 War. These people U are calling of falllen Gods let you Islamic followers go home with dignity.
Compare this with the way Hindu POWS in Kargil war were tortured to death and their dead bodies thrown away in open. These Hindu people of Fallen Gods in the same war buried all the Islamic Killers with Dignity whereas their ISlamic Masters in Pakistan refused to even take their Bodies back.
What does your Madrasa say about this. We don't need to look into the past to see your Islam. It's here now for us to analyse.
Weren't you the one's supporting Taliban. The one's who destroyed 1000 years old Buddha idols. U are gone cranky.
