Please come and say your opinion. Do you accept this statement yes or no. Hinduism was since centuries and the name given by Muslims. Tell me Do you agree Hinduism is not a religion it is mere Culture and way of life.
RE:Many Hindus Representative Posted message saying that Hinduism is not a religion just culture and way of Living
by Secular Indian on Mar 15, 2007 02:04 PM Permalink
Hinduism is more than religion it is a civilization. The civilization of the people of Hindustan. The world (excluding South America) can roughly be divided into three major divisions. Abrahamic, Hindu and Confucius Judaism, Christainity, Islam and to a large extend Marxism (with god bits missing) form part of the Abrahamic tradition. Sanatan Dharm, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Vaishnav, Shaivic etc. form part of the Hindu tradition. The Chinese and most of S.E.Asia form part of the Confucius tradition. It was the Persians and Arabs (before the advent of Islam) who referred to the people around Sindh as "Hindus/Hindis" etc. The term seems to have become popular but the "Hindu" refer to their umbrella religion as Sanatan Dharma.
e.g., Islam is called a terrorist cult, now you tell me do you agreee Islamic terror cult is not a religion it is a mere way to terrorize people to make them part of a cult started by a pedophile.
RE:RE:Many Hindus Representative Posted message saying that Hinduism is not a religion just culture and way of Living
by Rasheed on Mar 15, 2007 02:35 PM Permalink
I suppose, Hindutva is also a terror cult of Hinduism, and most people who profess about Hinduism in these message boards actually parrot Hindutva lines, not of Hinduism.
RE:RE:RE:Many Hindus Representative Posted message saying that Hinduism is not a religion just culture and way of Living
by Secular Indian on Mar 15, 2007 02:55 PM Permalink
Perhaps, but how does that negate what I had to say about Islam ?
RE:Many Hindus Representative Posted message saying that Hinduism is not a religion just culture and way of Living
by Rationalist on Mar 15, 2007 03:54 PM Permalink
Mr.Rafi,
What do u mean by mere culture? "Religion" is itself a derogatory word to classify Hinduism with given to it after invention of other religions.Derogatory because religion does not give individual freedom for a person which is not the case with Hinduism which does not give the right to evaluate its teacings & expects to be accepted blindly without questioning.
On the contrary Hinduism is a civilized way of living & understanding truth through realization & not blindly accepting teachings. It is not stagnant, its like a river that purifies on its own path. There is one famous saying don%u2019t remember whose, but it says " man is the greatest creation of God & God is the greatest imagination of man". Even an Aethist can claim to be a Hindhu only bcos it is not a religion.
RE:RE:Many Hindus Representative Posted message saying that Hinduism is not a religion just culture and way of Living
by Rationalist on Mar 15, 2007 04:15 PM Permalink
Also same way religion is also an invention I am pround that Hinduism is not an invention & hence it is not a religion.
Why is all the pressure on Muslims? Christians too are converting in India and with impunity. Their divine centre of catholicism in Kerala is the largest centre of orgy and depravity. what action has hindus taken against them that they are commenting on muslims who follow tehzeeb and culture
RE:Why are muslims being targeted here
by Secular Indian on Mar 15, 2007 02:12 PM Permalink
Once they start down the "peaceful" path of Islamic terror then perhaps. Though they are part of the same intolerant and discriminatory Abrahamic tradition. The you are either with us or against school of thought.
RE:RE:Why are muslims being targeted here
by Rasheed on Mar 15, 2007 02:40 PM Permalink
Intolerant and discriminatory Hindutva is no less an evil than Islamic terror. Hindutva brigadiers always look for an "Other" to justify their hatred and venomous propaganda. You are either a Hindu or the "Other," be it Muslim or Christian.
RE:RE:RE:Why are muslims being targeted here
by Secular Indian on Mar 15, 2007 02:58 PM Permalink
Sure, but what are the Muslims doing about. Hindus on the other hand are doing something about it, if the RSS (ideology) was 1/4 as popular as Muslims claim, the muslims would find it very difficult to live in this country. In the same way that Hindus have been hounded in the muslim paradise of Pakistan and Bangladesh. So please reserve your sanctimonious crap for other matters.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Why are muslims being targeted here
by Rasheed on Mar 15, 2007 03:15 PM Permalink
Liberal Hindus are surely raising their voice against radicalism. But you are surely not one among them. In your sanctimonious preachings of the Hindu civilisation, you conveniently turn a blind eye to radical cults within Hinduism. Now do you call that an aberration.
The RSS ideology has its supporters, much more than the quarter that you mentioned. One look at a majority of Hindu posts in this message board will conclusively prove where they stand.
About Muslims finding it difficult to live in this country, I agree with you. The Gujarati Muslims living in fear in their ghettos is adequate proof. And please don't get into this ridiculous logic of yours, citing Pakistan and Bangladesh to cover up your running dirt in this country.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Why are muslims being targeted here
by Secular Indian on Mar 15, 2007 03:46 PM Permalink
Where are the liberal muslims raising their voices anywhere in the Islamic world. Only from the safe sanctuaries of the West. Why ? I'm not even a Hindu so you can drop that angle. I do have a problem with Islam and the danger is very real. Regarding the posting of messages by Hindus, if you read carefully it was the Muslims that went into their usual victim-hood mode and went on the offensive, just like you are doing now. The article was about Aurangzeb but the Muslims chose to defend him and any rational person would find that stupid and absurd.
Regarding the Gujrati Muslims, sure they live in fear but lets not forget the Hindus of Kashmir, the Hindus of Pakistan and Bangladesh (or what's left of them). You can trace it right back to the day the first muslim stepped on the shores of this land.
If this was an India specific problem (the muslims) I would have sympathy for your view point. In the world we live in today people have access to real time news and the terror that is unleashed worldwide in the name of Islam can't be explained away by pointing your fingers at Hindus.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Why are muslims being targeted here
by Rasheed on Mar 15, 2007 04:11 PM Permalink
Centuries of Islamic rule has not destroyed the fabric of Hindu society in India. Perhaps the all inclusive nature of Hinduism could be an explanation, I don't dispute that.
I have no quarrel with you on the lack of liberal thought in Islam right now. But you cannot deny the collective onslaught of the Western media on everything Islamic, although the West had a very key role in holding up undemocratic regimes of the Middle East.
But can you apply the dynamics of global Islam to India. My concern is not about the role of the Prophet or the Holy Quran.
I am against terror, Islamic or otherwise, so you can count me out of the Mullahs who defend them.
For Muslims in India, radical Hindutva is indeed a India-specific problem (ignoring the substantial donations that find their way from NRIs, masked as charity contributions). By citing that problem, I do acknowledge the presence of radical Islamists in India.
By showing the Muslims that they are the followers of a terror cult, you are not making their conversion to a more "humane" religion as you profess, any easier.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Why are muslims being targeted here
by Rasheed on Mar 15, 2007 04:15 PM Permalink
As for your observation of Muslims finding the article on Aurangzeb offensive, I draw your attention to another article posted by Sheela Bhat on the Gujarat riots. Browse the radical anti-Islamic posts there. They didnt need any provocation to react that way. The article was provocation enough, I suppose. And the writer did not talk about someone who ruled centuries ago, but a very contemporary issue.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Why are muslims being targeted here
by Secular Indian on Mar 15, 2007 04:27 PM Permalink
Rasheed,
After reading your latest post, I apologize for some of the invective (that targeted you personally). I acknowledge that Islam is under the scanner and very close scrutiny. But I reiterate, the question to ask is why is that so ? It can't *all* be unfair.
Honestly I don't know what else to do, so I guess I'm in the business of description rather than prescription.
RE:RE:RE:Why are muslims being targeted here
by JATIN HALDANKAR on Mar 15, 2007 02:58 PM Permalink
Cut the Crap ..Mr.Rasheed ..you have Jews ,Parsis staying here since ages with hindus.. trying to escape islamist onslaught,.,,,
RE:what ISLAM teches is this
by Rasheed on Mar 15, 2007 12:42 PM Permalink
Pandey,
If I were to go by what you Hindu radicals have to preach in your shakhas, I could apply the same logic to Hindutva. And I reiterate, I dont want to say Hinduism. Because Hinduism is radically different from Hindutva. 1. Destroy others faith. The attack of Hindu radicals on the Babri mosque and innumerable attacks on mosques small and big in Gujarat proves that point beyond doubt.
2. Be Cruel. One look at the well documented exploits of your creed in Gujarat goes to show how the Hindutva driven radicals are not in short supply of cruelty.
3. Be unfaithful to your masters. Should I mention the long tradition of kings here and their exploits.
4. Attack on others ideology. The words and deeds of your kind in these messages prove the mentallity of assault. Your man/woman/children slaughter in Gujarat is enough proof. And mind you, in every riot, Hindu radicals are as guilty as Muslim fundamentalists. 5. No place for art culture. The assault of the Parivar on art galleries, cinema houses and their ban on films conclusively proves Hindu radicals are not different in any way from the Talibans.
Mr. Pandey, its easy to sit on a moral pedestal and preach. Your exploits in Gujarat has altered many truths you so vehemently profess. I agree Muslim radicals and rulers are guilty of many crimes. My point is this: Hindu radicals are no different, thus they have no moral right to preach.
RE:RE:what ISLAM teches is this
by Secular Indian on Mar 15, 2007 04:08 PM Permalink
You are taking centuries of Hindu slaughter and equating it with the Gujrat riots, are you mad ? Did the Hindus just decide to attack the Muslims in Gujrat or was there something that Muslims did that got them angry in the first place. Yes they were baying for blood but don't you think it's rational to ask, why ? Your veneer of liberalism is a shallow one, your concept of scale and proportion totally out of whack. Your moral underpinnings are no different from your taliban brothers, who destroyed the statues in Bamiyan and view the world through the lens of the Koran.
RE:RE:what ISLAM teches is this
by JATIN HALDANKAR on Mar 15, 2007 02:56 PM Permalink
The things like gujrat and babri mosque happen cause majority of muslim doesnot want to accept the sins of thier radical anscestors (like aurangzeb)..they continue to support them under some pretext and justifying thier action ...Such things create the hatred,which result in babri mosque demiolition ...
Yes I agree ..hindutva is militant form of hindu religion formed by Savarkar to organize hindus on the name of religion..but all this happen in 19 centuary ...Jehadis (militant islamist ) are there since islam's birth ,,,
As far as crime aginst lower caste is concerned ..this is eveil in of hindu society practice in some part of india,,Indian constitution and laws again formed by hindus..consider this as crime ... m sure in coming centuary this will be out of our religion..hindu society will be be reformed ... Now Look at you !!!
RE:RE:what ISLAM teches is this
by Hazi Singh on Mar 15, 2007 12:21 PM Permalink
oye NK , if u have any thing concrete only then reply other shut your mouth ad go and teach in Madarsa to become kathmullah!
RE:RE:RE:what ISLAM teches is this
by Aziz NK on Mar 15, 2007 12:36 PM Permalink
Be Tollerent Man. You and your religion are the apostles of Tolerence?. Tolerence= killing the Austarlian family by buring. Killing a shudra who found shelter near a temple to escape from rain. Forcing shudras women forcefully naked to lead a march of high casts through the streat. Throwing an innocent woman to fire, because her husband is dead named sathi. sending widows with shaved head to live in ashrams under the mercy of modern sadhus All are the signs of Tolerence. Forcing others to accept is also tolerence. great and go on.
RE:RE:RE:RE:what ISLAM teches is this
by JATIN HALDANKAR on Mar 15, 2007 02:46 PM Permalink
Aziz miya ... Example of tolerance is right here.. in front of us....people suspected of riots in gujrat and killing austarian missionary are facing trial.. condemen by society(where majority are hindus) by large ... and look at other side - a radical Islamist known for killing hindus , destroying thier temples despised by hindus is still revered by muslims ..and hindus though in majority letting it happen ...Kuch sikho ...
With all respect I want to ask any one who are asking Muslims to accept Hinudism. Do you think that we will be great if we accept, Nude and shameless sanyasis in lakhs marching through public roads and do you ask us to bow in friend of them, or do you ask us to enjoy Dev Dasis, do you ask us to accept the veda which says human are different, being created from different parts of a Deva, do you ask us to make seperation in between humans like brahamins, khsathrias, vaishyas and shudras, do you ask us as human beings we are not able to talk and mingle with Shudras, and do you ask us to accept the history of tbe British writers who were very cunning to divide this country in the name of religion. We dont think that the Mugals were Islamic rulers, they were only like other Hindu rulers who crushed the poor people and other small kingdoms to expand their own teritories. Hindu rulers were the most plunderous thugs. being in the same religion they never leaft the wealth of Temples. Gasni was called to India by a Hindu ruler to help him to defeat another monsterous king. And the world knows that British colonialists had a red carpet welcome to India by the then Hindu rulers. The muslim rulers were the obstacle to them.
RE:RE:RE:The Hindu Traditions
by Aziz NK on Mar 15, 2007 01:05 PM Permalink
Mr.Farooqui, Sorry to say this, pls don't mentions the names of the Gods of Hindus. A muslim is strictly adviced not to redicule or mention the dieties and faith of other people in bad intentions. What I am trying to say was that the traditions which we see and feel are not at all acceptable.
RE:RE:RE:RE:The Hindu Traditions
by N Iyer on Mar 15, 2007 02:53 PM Permalink
You Muslims are a pain. You guys are neither educated nor cultured. Why not go to Pakistan..all of you!!!India will become a developed country much earlier than 2020
RE:RE:The Hindu Traditions
by Aziz NK on Mar 15, 2007 12:11 PM Permalink
That is the history taught to you by evil minded people who had their own hidden agendas and you are singing it again and again like parrots
go to old news papers you can find sadhus in Ashrams, raping and killing women in hundreds
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:The Hindu Traditions
by Aziz NK on Mar 15, 2007 02:25 PM Permalink
Dear Rationalist,
No need to be sorry. As you have misunderstandings, me also have the same. its quite human nature. Why cant we understand all these foolishness of accusing and arguing will bring no good to our country and people? The modern world is running fast to progress and competing each other to be the super. In our country, we are still blaming each other for what happened in history. In my best openion, all this energy to be saved for the prosperity of our conutry. The hungry children of a Hindu and Muslim are the same. The sadness of a mother who lost her child is the same.A baby of Hindu and Muslim cries in the same language. Yaar! all these are a kind of play politics. In that sense why can't we take things easy and comporomising. Powerful nations are conquring poor countries by their economic stregth. I think in the near future USA will decide what we Indians to do and say. It will be painful to our nation. They will try to bring religious and communal problems to our childrens mind inventing new theories and ideas. Still we are fighting in Kashmir. It was a bit of rotten flesh put in front two hungry dogs. They the British were aware of the power of a united India. They were playing behind the partition. we paid a big price for that. Still some of us are not thinking. Think about a Great India which includes Pak and Bgd being we have the brain, man power, resorces. Those peoples were long sighted evils and they want us to stay in poverty, fighting each other and in thirdworld?. Look at their mindset which ws revealed up on Shilpa Shetty. I am feeling shame of our polititions and religious fanatics regardless of their faith,class and cread.
Islam teaches peace by Abdul Hameed on Mar 14, 2007 08:20 PM | Hide replies
Islam is the religion of peace. Islam has only retaliated in its defence. From early days many crusades were launched against Islam. But they were all repulsed. Now uncalled for wars have been imposed on Islamic nations by the same persons who want their ideology to dominate the world.
Yeah, Islam was in India at around 200 A.D. The Poor Hindus from Afganistan started to come and loot the rich and culutred Islamic society living in the Hindus Valley. The Islamic followers were very rich. Poor Hindus don't know from where they came and started looting this rich Islamic followers, they started to destroy mosques, blah blah blah blah ......
RE:Another Mullah on the net
by Shaswat s ghosh on Mar 15, 2007 12:30 PM Permalink
pl dont make the world laugh. thw world knows the atrovcities of the muslims since more than a 1000 years ago. and it only continues today. and we are not saying stop following your religion, we are just saying you accept other religions. but of course you cant do that.
I admire this writer about his good writing skill.But i am confused with his idea regarding history.He/she said "History (like journalism) is about documentation and first-hand experience".Can aurthor justify his own version of history and experience? I appreciate his endeavor to showcase Aurangzeb edict directing the demolition of mosque.Could author give a detailed background about the destruction of the religious structure? And if you think that what Aurangzeb did wrong in the history,you want to repeat the same so that future indian generation will remember our society as the Aurangzebs society? This is my request to the author that let people of Modern India in peace.Let the social fabric of brotherhood between Indians strong. Dont mess up India development by raising such an issue.We should look the present and expect a good future and not to demonize our society like what it was. thank you Jai Hind. akhtar
RE:The truth about Aurangzeb
by Rationalist on Mar 15, 2007 12:53 PM Permalink
Nobody here wants to repeat what wrong things done by Aurangzeb. But the only intention is to be true to ourself about what happend in history which no one can change. But for one moment one can imagine what would have been the fate of this country if the Hindu muslim ratio would have been reverse or even equal.
RE:RE:The truth about Aurangzeb
by akhtar siddique on Mar 15, 2007 08:03 PM Permalink
it sounds illogical to foment religious hatred by way of dicussing issues in order to discipline oneself,to know the evil deeds of historic era in order to improve oneself. No society in the world can change oneself by allegation and counterallegation of historic events.Every emperor in the past and even the present who became past will be seen by some as a hero while others a vallain.But the wise always look up the present and try to find out some good qualities of the past leaders of our nation.We as a society cannot develop ourselves by focussing too much on the negative aspect of our leader.Not only that we are going to inculcate our coming generation to hate others because his forefathers had done something wrong to your forefathers.Do you think that this kind of discussion are going to be fruitful.I hope by this way,you people are dragging my devloping and the most beloved motherland into the quigmire of social strife.
U say that if Aurangzeb forced conversions then the whole of india would have become Islamists.
Going by your account of atrociities by Hindus Army on Muslims in 50 years there shouldn't have been any muslims left. How much your followers are still growing and growing.
You only give accounts of Indian Army attacking never the reasons for the army action.
You don't even know how a army operation is carried out. They have to log each event. The media is there and everyone can come to know. This is not Pakistan's village.
