RAFI IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. AS PER THE ISLAMIC BELIEF "EVERY HUMAN BEING BORNED AS MUSLIM". THE SOCIAL ENVIRONMENT CHANGED THEM TO THD DIFFERENT RELIGIONS AND SECT. I AM PROUD SAY NOT ONLY MY, BROTHERS KALYAN MITRA, CHATANYA KUMAR AND OTHERS' ANCESTORS WERE MUSLIM. WE ARE ALL COUSINS.
RE:RE:WE ARE ALL COUSINS
by chaitanya kumar on Mar 17, 2007 07:01 PM Permalink
you are barking at the wrong tree pranat. The next phase of guys like Mike Gandhi is to strap a bomb around their body and you know what.
RE:WE ARE ALL COUSINS
by KALYAN MITRA on Mar 18, 2007 03:50 PM Permalink
First of all your name MIKE GHANDHI...Why donot you take your real name. Secondly whatever you think the fact is all Indian were HINDUS later on converted to other religion. Now may be some conversion took place by force...some may be by choice.
However please remember we all are Human being and should live in peace and by respecting each other.
I feel pain when our leaders create vote bank politics. We donot need reservation in religion or caste based, it should be on financial status.
RE:WE ARE ALL COUSINS
by Secular Indian on Mar 18, 2007 10:23 AM Permalink
But your claim doesn't make sense. Since the punishment for apostasy in Islam (as per the Koran) is death. Going by your claim when a person is born into a Hindu family he/she leaves Islam by following the religion of his/her parents which makes that person an apostate and therefore should be killed. What sort of perversion is this ?
RE:WE ARE ALL COUSINS
by raghav bhatt on Mar 19, 2007 12:50 PM Permalink
Telling lie is ok as per ISLAM(it seems).Because you are hiding your name.Will not Allah angry because you are changing your name(in fear?.Be bold man.
Lust, anger, greed, pride etc., constitute the most powerful army of Ignorance. But among them all the fiercest and the most troublesome is that incarnation of Maya called woman.
Yudhishthira said: O best of Bharatas, I wish to hear thee
discourse on the disposition of women. Women are said to be the root of all evil. They are all regarded as exceedingly frail.
There is nothing else that is more sinful than women. Verily, women are the root of all faults. That is certainly known to thee, O Narada! Women, even when possessed of husbands having fame and wealth, of handsome features and completely obedient to them, are prepared to disregard them if they get the opportunity.
Listen, O sage: the Puranas, the Vedas and the saints declare that woman is like the vernal season to the forest of ignorance. Nay, like the hot season she dries up all the ponds and lakes of Japa (repetition of mantras or the Lord%u2019s name), austerity and religious observances. Again, lust, anger, pride, and jealousy are so many frogs as it were; like the rainy season woman is the only agency that gladdens them all
Ayodhya Kanda, 39-21, 39-23
"It is also characteristic of faithless women to lead a false life, do acts unworthy of them, possess a heart ever unfathomable, be inclined to do sinful acts and in a trice cease to be affectionate."
Aranya Kanda, 45.29
"It is the nature of women all over the world to be vicious, fickle, and sharp-tongued and to sow seeds of dissension
A true wife thinks not of God when she rises in the morning. She offers her worship to the husband and that is enough. Even the clouds will obey and pour the rain at her command.
Ansuya (Rishi Atri's wife) said to Sita:
"A woman is impure by her very birth; but she attains a happy state by serving her lord (husband)".
Fom the Bhagavad Gita, Ch.9, Verse 32:
"For, taking refuge in Me, they also who, O Arjuna, may be of sinful birth--women, vaisyas as well as sudras--attain the Supreme Goal."
Commentary by Swami Shivananda, Rishikesh:
"........Women and Sudras are debarred by social rules from the study of the Vedas. ...."
The practice still popular that when woman in Mensuration does not allow to enter inside home, stay aloof, do not touch to eating utensils, can not wear good clothes.
The woman her husband died in the young age does not allow to marry, does not allow to wear colourful clothes and wearing jewellary.
these are the common practices. Sati as per your holy books still valid. Even India many times it was forcefully practiced.
Woman and Islam I posted already article about. Go check and compare and then tell. What is the truth.
RE:Reply to Mr. Rama Anand Rao - This is the few sayings of books of your culture. which is practised mostly.
by pranat on Mar 17, 2007 05:09 PM Permalink
Shri. Rafiuddin farooqui from Hindustan,
Every religion has its share of old outdated rituals and practices that dont hold any place now. These practices include say beating your self and bleeding yourself on moharram, treating women as un-equal and not allowing them to work, child marriage, social inequality and perhaps all the things that you have mentioned. So to an extent these are present in all religions. But progressive religions move ahead and assimilate things that are good and reject things that are bad. I dont see this is Islamic countries barring UAE/Bahrain etc. I see that radical elements in Islam become stronger than the state and all that they like is radical Islam and sharia law. Education , hospitals, development all can do to the dogs then. All women can just stay at home and serve their lords and the lords( husbands) can go ahead tortting their AK-47/hand held granades and start coverting/killing kafirs/shia/sunni/journalists/americans/jews/cristians/burning libraries.
I dont think that you and your family want to live in that society governed by the strict interpretation of the sharia laws ( as done by Taliban)..do you? I am sure you dont, i would like to hear you views.
The poor Hindus doesnt know what their Culture said.
quote
The woman in the West is dazzled by the glamorous rush and speed of the modern age. She does not like to do her household duties. You can find her now in the house of parliament or at the typewriter. She is a telephone operator, a pilot, a film star and a shop assistant. She compliments herself in the thought that she is sharing and lessening the work of man. She vies with him in his field and tries to oust and replace him.
She has asserted her rights and broken the four walls of her home. She works in the war zones and industries. She thinks that she lives a glorious life but it is not so. She is not really peaceful and happy.
Women can no more do the work of men in the world than men can do that of women. %u2026 If they withdraw from their homes, the result will be disastrous. There will be subversion of domestic discipline and family order, and social decay will set in. Children will grow up uneducated and sorely neglected.
Unquote
What I found on the Net Educated illeterate. Taleem hasil karke bhi Jahel raha Nadan ko ulta palta to bhi nadan raha.
RE:Hi I am here again few replies. Some people talk about Purdah. The veil and Modesty.
by KALYAN MITRA on Mar 17, 2007 04:25 PM Permalink
Are you sure your ancestors are not Hindus?
RE:RE:Hi I am here again few replies. Some people talk about Purdah. The veil and Modesty.
by rafiuddin farooqui on Mar 17, 2007 04:51 PM Permalink
Islam teaches that every born in fitra means born Muslims and we adopt what ever around us. I and you born also Muslims but due you culture you are Hindu. My parents practicing Islam so I am Muslims. My ancestors were Originally Muslims but they adopted Hinduism, Chirtianity, Judaism, Jainism, Budhism but when they get the message of Islam. READ AND UNDERSTAND, As they are right minded, with good science, intelligent they embrass Islam. Wish you good luck.
RE:RE:RE:Hi I am here again few replies. Some people talk about Purdah. The veil and Modesty.
by Secular Indian on Mar 17, 2007 05:10 PM Permalink
We are all born as humans devoid of any religion.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Hi I am here again few replies. Some people talk about Purdah. The veil and Modesty.
by Mike Gandhi on Mar 17, 2007 05:29 PM Permalink
RAFI IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. AS PER THE ISLAMIC BELIEF "EVERY HUMAN BEING BORNED AS MUSLIM". THE SOCIAL ENVIRONMENT CHANGED THEM TO THD DIFFERENT RELIGIONS AND SECT. I AM PROUD SAY NOT ONLY MY, BROTHERS KALYAN MITRA, CHATANYA KUMAR AND OTHERS' ANCESTORS WERE MUSLIM. WE ARE ALL COUSINS.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Hi I am here again few replies. Some people talk about Purdah. The veil and Modesty.
by Secular Indian on Mar 18, 2007 10:24 AM Permalink
But your claim doesn't make sense. Since the punishment for apostasy in Islam (as per the Koran) is death. Going by your claim when a person is born into a Hindu family he/she leaves Islam by following the religion of his/her parents which makes that person an apostate and therefore should be killed. What sort of perversion is this ?
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Hi I am here again few replies. Some people talk about Purdah. The veil and Modesty.
by CG NAIR on Mar 17, 2007 06:05 PM Permalink
Islam religion was established about 1400 years back. How could then "every human being born (there is no word like "borned" in English) as Muslim? Was there no human race before the advent of the Prophet? I would suggest my friends of all religions to read the free e-book "The Necessity of Atheism" by Dr. D.M. Brooks available on the site of Project Gutenberg. Also read the book God, Demon and Spirits by the late Dr. Abraham Kovoor (still not available freely)to put an end to their misplaced belief of superiority of one religion or the other.
RE:RE:RE:Hi I am here again few replies. Some people talk about Purdah. The veil and Modesty.
by raghav bhatt on Mar 19, 2007 12:53 PM Permalink
When was Islam started ? before the born of the earth? or in the 7th century AD
RE:RE:RE:RE:Hi I am here again few replies. Some people talk about Purdah. The veil and Modesty.
by rafiuddin farooqui on Mar 19, 2007 08:19 PM Permalink
Those who born today or on the existence of the world. He Born as Muslim and must submit himself to the Almighty Allah.
RE:Hi I am here again few replies. Some people talk about Purdah. The veil and Modesty.
by chaitanya kumar on Mar 17, 2007 04:23 PM Permalink
with more guys like you, women will realize that their real threat is from Islam who wish to limit their presence to kitchen and bedroom. I hope the Burkha dutts and Arundhati Roys are listening.
RE:RE:Hi I am here again few replies. Some people talk about Purdah. The veil and Modesty.
by rafiuddin farooqui on Mar 17, 2007 04:56 PM Permalink
Hi Chaitanya I love you are again. We never against women to get knowledge and become super human but with modesty and chastity. We do not want women to become flesh Market. Our prophet said the getting of the education is the right of men and woman. They must get education. This is todays need. But Moral values should be maintain.
RE:RE:RE:Hi I am here again few replies. Some people talk about Purdah. The veil and Modesty.
by Perv Sharma on Mar 19, 2007 11:08 AM Permalink
Funny Islam - It believes covering oneself by clothes from head to toe one follows moral values. Talking of equality it's time the Muslim men too started covering themselves in burqas - to just show equality.
Reply to Mr. Fayyaz A against his message posted on Mar 17, 2007 11:09 AM under heading HINDU MUSLIM
I indeed aghast for his small posting, wherein he has advised to avoid hatred. Though I do not know to whom he has addressed, and what for he has posted but I bow to his wishes and simultaneously I wish, such wishes should have been of all, but unfortunately it is not like that. I do not carry any prejudice, so I feel that all the readers are educated and intelligent, and probably are the regular visitors to Rediff.
Recently, one gentleman, Shahalam had posted a long list on Mar 04, 2007 (under the news - UK Muslims converting our girls: Hindus %u2013 I think that the news has been deleted now), where the marriages or relationship were of inter-religion in nature i.e. Hindu-Muslim. The gentleman had selected very carefully and quite mischievously the name of those couple only where the males were Muslims and females were Hindu and mostly they were married and off-course few of them have separated / divorced. He used the relationship and marriage as USED and divorced / separated as ABUSED / DUMPED. Now all were celebrated couples, have their public life, normally belonged to upper classes and not at all fundamentalists. Even an ordinary person could well understand those are / were a relationship, continuing or broken, but those were relationship and none of them even thought that those were the case of USE, ABUSED or DUMPED. He also mentioned - Muslims always have this ability to target Gullible Hindu girls whether in India or UK. It is quite surprising that none of the Muslim readers had come to condemn the act such stupidity i.e. message posting. I do not know what the writer wanted to convey but he had depicted his insanity i.e. teaching of hatred and not coming forward by any Muslim reader, have shown that they had endorsed the writer%u2019s opinion or in other word they have endorsed and supported the act of hatred, and it is the teaching of Islam. If I have read that message, I am sure millions of readers must have read too and quite a number of people / organization might be planning to target or retaliate i.e. USED, ABUSED or DUMPED, the act probably nobody have thought even that the marriage is synonymous to these. What a mentality and what a support from their community. Had anything thought the consequence? I wonder if the Muslims females also in that way i.e. relationship is USE, ABUSE or DUMP. I am sure that many of my Muslims sisters must have selected their partners from other religion, and few might be planning to do so, and in future also some would do so. What a definition of relationship, USE, ABUSE and DUMP.
Now I take the second case, under this article where Mr Mohammed Ahmed have been continuously justifying the act of Jihad, murder etc. should continue and he has given series of illogical reasons, and endorsed that the killing of innocent people, which he decides as
"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.
-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)
RE:RE:UNTOLD TRUTHS BY FRANCOIS GAUTIER
by chaitanya kumar on Mar 17, 2007 02:50 PM Permalink
Christianity could not content itself with building up its own altar; it was absolutely forced to undertake the destruction of the heathen altars. Only from this fanatical intolerance could its apodictic faith take form; this intolerance is, in fact, its absolute presupposition.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
For how shall we fill people with blind faith in the correctness of a doctrine, if we ourselves spread uncertainty and doubt by constant changes in its outward structure?
...Here, too, we can learn by the example of the Catholic Church. Though its doctrinal edifice, and in part quite superfluously, comes into collision with exact science and research, it is none the less unwilling to sacrifice so much as one little syllable of its dogmas... it is only such dogmas which lend to the whole body the character of a faith.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
More such quotes from Hitler in praise of Church from his Mein Kampf:
RE:UNTOLD TRUTHS BY FRANCOIS GAUTIER
by bharatiya on Mar 17, 2007 02:44 PM Permalink
The large scale demolition of Hindu temples by the portugese in Goa & by Muslims in the rest of India, the forced conversions, murder, rape & loot centuries after centuries cannot be forgotten. If you add up all the violent acts of Hindus in the entire history it will not even total to 6 months (& that too has always been as a reaction to something nasty you guys have done) whereas for Muslims & Christians it has been an everyday way of life for many centuries.
Your b@lsh@% religions offer incentives like virgins & rivers of wine to lure you into crimes against humanity. You are agents of Satan on earth. It is a well known trick of the Satan that he pretends to be a devote Christian & shows his true colors when exposed.
RE:UNTOLD TRUTHS BY FRANCOIS GAUTIER
by chaitanya kumar on Mar 17, 2007 03:02 PM Permalink
Atrocities on Native people:
Beginning with Columbus (a former slave trader and would-be Holy Crusader) the conquest of the New World began, as usual understood as a means to propagate Christianity.
Within hours of landfall on the first inhabited island he encountered in the Caribbean, Columbus seized and carried off six native people who, he said, "ought to be good servants ... [and] would easily be made Christians, because it seemed to me that they belonged to no religion."
While Columbus described the Indians as "idolators" and "slaves, as many as [the Crown] shall order," his pal Michele de Cuneo, Italian nobleman, referred to the natives as "beasts" because "they eat when they are hungry," and made love "openly whenever they feel like it."
On every island he set foot on, Columbus planted a cross, "making the declarations that are required" - the requerimiento - to claim the ownership for his Catholic patrons in Spain. And "nobody objected." If the Indians refused or delayed their acceptance (or understanding), the requerimiento continued:
I certify to you that, with the help of God, we shall powerfully enter in your country and shall make war against you ... and shall subject you to the yoke and obedience of the Church ... and shall do you all mischief that we can, as to vassals who do not obey and refuse to receive their lord and resist and contradict him."
Likewise in the words of John Winthrop, first governor of Massachusetts Bay Colony: "justifieinge the undertakeres of the intended Plantation in New England ... to carry the Gospell into those parts of the world, ... and to raise a Bulworke against the kingdome of the Ante-Christ."
In average two thirds of the native population were killed by colonist-imported smallpox before violence began. This was a great sign of "the marvelous goodness and providence of God" to the Christians of course, e.g. the Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony wrote in 1634, as "for the natives, they are near all dead of the smallpox, so as the Lord hath cleared our title to what we possess."
On Hispaniola alone, on Columbus visits, the native population (Arawak), a rather harmless and happy people living on an island of abundant natural resources, a literal paradise, soon mourned 50,000 dead.
The surviving Indians fell victim to rape, murder, enslavement and spanish raids.
As one of the culprits wrote: "So many Indians died that they could not be counted, all through the land the Indians lay dead everywhere. The stench was very great and pestiferous."
The indian chief Hatuey fled with his people but was captured and burned alive. As "they were tying him to the stake a Franciscan friar urged him to take Jesus to his
RE:RE:UNTOLD TRUTHS BY FRANCOIS GAUTIER
by chaitanya kumar on Mar 17, 2007 03:09 PM Permalink
your list is really small Jeremy. Hindus and their so called "atrocities"(which even you need to exaggerate and concote with lies) are nothing before whatever happened in the name of Christ.
RE:RE:RE:UNTOLD TRUTHS BY FRANCOIS GAUTIER
by chaitanya kumar on Mar 17, 2007 03:17 PM Permalink
all you christians do is point at the Hindu caste system and the discrimination in it while you hide the atrocities of Church that will bewilder the devil and satan. As if the caste system is only followed by Hindus and rest are egalitarian. What happened to the discrimination between ruling class, working class...bourgeois , proletariat.
RE:UNTOLD TRUTHS BY FRANCOIS GAUTIER
by pranat on Mar 17, 2007 03:23 PM Permalink
Any progressive developing diverse country will have its share of problems in creating equitable distribution of wealth and social equaity that started in the last 3/4 centuries will hopefully be completed in this century.
But clearly we neither did nor will like to go the way of Aurangzeb/Osama Bin Ladin (a radical Muslim) or lead a crusade against non cristin religions or have an Adolf Hitler here. These people wanted to kill humanity in millions. These were progroms to eliminate/annihilate other religions. Genocide directed at completely eliminating weaker minorities. I am happy that in Hindu Majority India, crimes of this horric nature have neither happened nor will happen. Thank the Hindu majority for this who are tolerant and stop crying about RSS/BJP at every given opportunity. Hindus now, in their own country dont even have a right to stop Islamic fundamentalism and cristian conversion... mostly encouraged by the outside powers and money.
A fresh reply to mohammed ahmed on Mar 16, 2007 04:03 PM [RE:Why the Afghanistan or any other countries / territories are of / for Muslims] against his few queries:
Your comments - Islam is global, from the beginning, we want Islam in the whole world.
My reply - What is meaning of global (tell me the % of population, % of acceptance of willingness), what is meaning of beginning (how old it is, tell me about your ancestral background, who they were, if you abuse to your own ancestors whose blessings you are, whose blood you carry, then what is impression you are spreading) and what is meaning of, we want ISLAM (meaning peace and justice) in the whole world, who cares what you want you have right to accept anything why should I captivate myself or others to illiteracy , unscrupulous religious leaders. Even your thinking is dirty that you want others should follow it and simultaneously you are claming ISLAM (meaning peace and justice), if you preach ISLAM and meaning is it, how dare you can think about democratic rights of others or in the word you yourself is abusing and pitting to ISLAM. This is the biggest problem with you fundamentalist; you dare to think the others should follow you. Gentleman, people follow a path as per their wish, considering its good and evil, where the very basic nature of Islam (or what it has been propagated by your so called religious leaders) is barbaric and forced. You people never come to rescue your own sister like Sania Mirza, when she is bashed by your religious leaders, you never utter single word about our great H.E. President APJ Abdul Kalam that when your people say that he is not Muslims and he is puppet etc. etc. since he practices the humanism not fundamentalism and now it is barbaric thinking that you want ISLAM (meaning peace and justice) in the whole world, what a rotten thinking. Gentleman go and cleanse you mind, you have right to thin about you but you should not dare to think about others, as they also have the same right and they are more intelligent than you as they do not mortgage their mind and soul to someone that too illiterate religious leaders.
Your comment - we preach everywhere about the Creator, good things of life, good living, cooperation, charity, meditation, circumcision, burial of dead bodies with dignity.
My reply %u2013 By the way, who decides which is good and which is bad? How dare you can think about the whole world and their thinking? Do you feel yourself that you are capable to do so or you are also life self-styled prophet, who can decide the fate of whole world. I think I need to tell that in non of the Gulf country where Muslims are in population, they have declared it as Muslim country (forget about the secularism), no democracy is there, literacy rate is dismally poor, even the person hold some qualification (not education) they are captive to illiterate religious leaders, they have fear to use their own brain (always u
pls try to avoid to start the topics which increases the hate. kindly stop the topic, you are not doing the good .past is good ok but when it is bad then why are you opening it to initiate hate and mental block. an Indian Muslim
[RE:Why the Afghanistan or any other countries / territories are of / for Muslims]
Dear Mohammed Ahmed
I could not understand the reason for your unusual anger as I had not target you but at the same time if you say that who told so for Muslim lands, you may go through several postings, under several articles, where your so fundamentalists brothers have written. At present I do not have the details, I am sure even under this article somewhere the people have justified Jihad for Israel occupied area, Iraq, Afghanistan, J&K etc. etc. claiming that there are fighting to liberate their motherland. Otherwise can you justify the meaning of Jihad and killing the innocent people, including children, woman and elderly people, only because you have gun in your hand and they are soft targets. Forget about the world history, just refer back the invasion of Islamic terrorists in this country, you may call it 500 years back or 1000 years back. Can you justify the forced conversion? Can you refuse the majority population is of forced conversion (there are 99.99% chances that your ancestors have also been forced, have you ever tried to go back to your own ancestors, when I telling this I strongly feel that you are from Indian origin), you can definitely think about your own ancestors, I repeat your own ancestors including female members and their agony when they were forced for conversion and other humiliation your female family ancestors had faced at that time (I could your understand what I want to say) . I am giving few links which are small example of barbaric invasion:
My brother my intention is not to annoy you rather to request just to open your own eyes, open your own brain, the precious gift of Almighty (the supreme power, you may call as ALLAH, or whatever suits you), release yourself from the captivation of fundamentalist cages.
I am pasting a message which I had replied to someone which can open your eyes and change your mind and attitude that I am new to this discussion. In this context I would like to confirm that I have discussed these subject to my several Muslim friends & colleagues (educated, not fundamentalists, who bow to the reality not the baseless teaching of so called leaders. I hope you are also an educated person. I would request you to kindly go through the history (I am not recommending any rather advise you to go to the reputed authors and publishers (including Muslims authors) and judge yourself, again o
The logical people should read these links, and post your comments, without any religious bias. Earlier also I had asked, as to why a country, a territory or a state should be for a particular community i.e. Muslims, because our Muslim brother have dissatisfaction that terrorists are fighting for their motherland. It quite rebelling when they call that Afghanistan is for Muslims, I wonder as to why, and if it so it was the Buddhist who had in majority before the cruel invasion of Islamic extremists.
