RE:Specially for Wada-Pav - He Lost,
by Mike Gandhi on Mar 21, 2007 02:52 PM Permalink
DEAR RAFI,
THE AGE YOU QUOTED FOR UMM AYESHA IS WRONG. AS PER THE COMPARATIVE STUDIES HER AGE WAS NOT LESS THAN 19 WHE SHE MARRIED WITH PROPHET (PBUH). THE HADITH QUOTED BY HICHAM BIN ARWAH, WHEN HE SETTLED IN KUFA. WHY HE DID NOT QUOTED THIS HADITH WHEN HE LIVED IN MADINAH MUNAWARAH ?? ALSO HIS EARLIER STATMENT IF YOU FOUND 1000 HADTITH FROM KUFA, THREW IT 999 IN TRASH, AND ALWAYS SUSPICIOUS ON REMAINING ONE. SO THIS HADITH IS NOT AUTHENTIC. DONT QUOTE AGAIN. ALSO FOR US PRESTIGE AND RESPECT OF PROPHET IS MOST IMPARTANT THAN HICHAM BIN URAWAH WHO ONLY QUOTED THIS HADITH. ALLAH SAVE ALL HUMAN BEING FROM THE JEWS & SAFRAN TERRORISTS' SHARR. AMMEEN
RE:RE:Specially for Wada-Pav - He Lost,
by JATIN HALDANKAR on Mar 21, 2007 03:52 PM Permalink
Quote as per your Convinance...truth is least expected ...
Data collected by the government and its agencies highlight the scale of physical aggression and oppression faced by Dalit communities. The 2005 Annual Report of the National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB) under the Union Ministry of Home Affairs states that a crime against Scheduled Caste (S.C.) communities is committed every 20 minutes in the country. It records that 26,127 cases of atrocities against S.C communities were reported last year. In 2004, the recorded number of crimes against Dalits was 26,887. The 2005 report states that there were 1,172 cases of rape of Dalit women, 669 cases of murder, 258 cases of kidnapping and abduction and 3,847 cases of causing hurt. There were 291 cases under the Protection of Civil Rights Act and 8,497 cases under the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes (Prevention of Atrocities) Act.
Atrocities against Dalits range from verbal abuse to rape and forcing them to consume human excreta and urine; from denial of access to public amenities such as drinking water, roads, bus stops, markets and temples to denial of civil rights; from physical harm to social boycotts. Police personnel often play a role in the violence against Dalits; custodial rape and violence are among the most frequent forms of assault on the community. All sorts of things invite attacks on Dalits: alleged "disobedience" of village elders, refusal to perform `duties' such as conveying information about deaths, or a Dalit boy falling in love with a caste-Hindu girl. Even the victory of a football team of Dalit boys in a school match, or a Dalit bus driver's refusal to oblige a caste Hindu by stopping the vehicle near his residence, have provoked atrocities against Dalit villages in the southern districts of Tamil Nadu.
The report indicted successive governments for their lukewarm response to atrocities against Dalits and criticised the continued hostility to Dalits amid orthodox and influential sections in the dominant community. What is unique about violence against Dalits is that the victims are "chosen on the basis of birth in a given society", the report said. It blamed the caste-based, hierarchical social structure, a creation of the dominant castes, for dividing society into privileged and subdued groups with Dalits at the bottom and outside the caste order. "The frequency and intensity of violence," the report said, "is an offshoot of desperate attempts by the upper-caste groups to protect their entrenched status against the process of disengagement and upward mobility among lower castes, resulting from affirmative action of State policy [enshrined in the Constitution of India]."
1. This is the reported figures of 2005. These are the only 10 percent case is reported. There thousands of cases which were not reported yet. This the most modern report of Indian Government, even today the agencies are very friendly, helping with Brahmans and Higher castes. Even the lower Castes Dalit leadership coming up to take such cases. The Nagpur incident in which 4 persons brutally killed reported after 2 months and after 2 months lot of protest the FIR accepted.
this kind of war of words happened all the time in human history. e-g. when AKBAR tried to impose his wish-religion(Din-e-Ilahi) through state-intervention. even then ISLAM was saved by common man's Molvees like the Great Sheikh Ahmed Sirhandi(RA).
EVERY TIME TRUTH PREVAILED and Evil/Fallacy came only to go.
AKBAR died with his 'religion', and INDIA was saved. SALEEM followed islam. Shah Jahan too. but Dara went on great-grand-father's way and was killed in a battle by his three brothers, for the GOOD of INDIA again.
india was going nice towards TRUTH with PEACE untill some bigots and so-called thinkers like Shri Bankim Chandra who divided indian society to gain the lost EVIL-PRIDE/power of Brahmins over the 90% oppressed indians. RSS forced it to divide India and now CRYING foul and talking about AKHAND-BHARAT. now also doing the same thing. even in 5-yrs of power, they did not get a better President than a Muslim-KALAAM. and could not stop an ITALIAN and a SIKH from coming to power. worthlessssss fellowssssssssss. good for only evilssssssss.
inshallahhhhhhnhh only TRUTH will PREVAIL.
and we will have a AKHAND-BHARAT as well as AKHAND-WORLD but through Islam only as happened in the past.
ASHOK also left his old tribal-religion. even AMBEDKAR also did the same. only to go away from voilence, evils, injustice, lies, cheating, etc.
today also AR RAHMAN, KAMLA DAS leaving their old religion to find
1.NAMAZ- best way of prayer, chanting, excercise, yoga, meditation, Social Mingling: all in ONE.
2.ROZA- best way of fasting, cleansing, practicing patience, discipline, unity- all in ONE.
3.ZAKAT- best way of charity, tax, gifts, insurance, investment-all in ONE (Allah saves the giver from accidents, diseases, ill-fate etc)
4. HAJJ %u2013 best form of pilgrimage %u2013 Signifying One Humanity %u2013 Universal Brotherhood
5. Circumcision- best practice after birth to have basic cleanliness always.
6. Earth-burial of deads- best environmental freindly DISPOSAL with DIGNITY.
RE:RE:GOOD DEBATE BETWEEN GOOD vs EVIL.
by wada pav on Mar 21, 2007 01:17 PM Permalink
1.FIRST LEARN TO TAKE BATH EVERY DAY, THEN TALK ABOUT CLEANLINESS. 2.DURING ROZA , U GUYS FAST IN THE MORNING AND THEN AFTER SUNSET U EAT GREEDILY LIKE PIGS, WHATS THE USE OF FASTING THEN ? 3.CIRCUMCISION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CLEANLINESS,ITS AN OLD JEWISH PRACTICE THAT THE PROPHET STOLE. 4. DON'T TALK ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS 5. BURYING DEAD , CREATES RISK OF DISEASE AND EPIDEMICS. 6. SLAUGHTERING GOATS ON BAKRI EID IS ANIMAL FRIENDLY PRACTICE ? 7. IS HALAL A ANIMAL FRIENDLY PRACTICE ? U GUYS SLIT THE THROAT AND GIVE A PAINFUL DEATH TO THE ANIMAL, THE ANIMAL DOES NOT DIE INSTANTLY , BUT LIVES ON IN A PAINFUL STATE for some time THEN DIES.
RE:Hello......... Secular / Wada
by naresh gunda on Mar 21, 2007 12:48 PM Permalink
cool maan!! when u ve patience, use it too... the respect u earned from ur last posting goes into thin air with this senseless claim..
those were the days of military rule. subjects and citizens wished to have the strongest and the wisest as their ruler. everybody had got a right to prove himself to be the best ruler. and only war between the different candidates could judge, who would be the best. no matter what relationship the candidates had between themselves.
We know that a state, a kingdom or a government is for basically giving peace and justice in a society. Peace can be hampered for a while to bring a larger justice....like a situation of war. and again little injustice can be justified to bring and keep the larger peace around.....like a situation of curfew in any area.
and the expansion of an empire is also not unjust. Mughal emperors did it like Ashoka and Alexander-the Greats conquered lands and made empires. AurangZeb in particular might have been more intolerant towards the injustices of Brahmins on the lower castes.... and also towards the social/spiritual/physical evil acts/rituals that were prevalent in the temples of those days. he had got his own personality and methodology........ open to critism from all. but making this issue a tool of condeming all muslim kings and religion of Islam is a sheer foolishness.... and even dangerous for society as a whole.
when i say..... AurangZeb in particular might have been more intolerant towards the injustices.........
i mean.... it's natural to be INTOLERANT towards larger INJUSTICES..... in fact it's desired..... and so.... jehad is needed. JIHAD means organised effort/struggle to remove/kill the badness from SELF....SYSTYEM....SURROUNDING and if needed those MEN who comes on the way of that effort. GANDHI/BOSE/BHAGAT/TERESA/BABA-AMTE/MILITARY GENERALS.... all did or are doing JIHAD their own way.
We forget that AurangZeb took Zakat from Muslims as Jizya from NonMuslims. No Muslim king went to Kerala/Srilanka.... but think how Islam reached there... and in fact muslims are 30% in population. Same is the case for Indonesia and Malayshya.... where 40 crore muslims live. which aurangzeb went to Indonasia/Malaysia Kerala/SriLanka......etc..???????? who converted Jaipal Yogi/Cat-Stevens/ Yusuf Yuhana/Kamala Das/ AR-Rahman/ ClassusClayMd.Ali?????????????????
Every body will say ....... this is the case of ONLY TRUTH PREVAILS..... whether Rome... india.... persia..... russia... africa etc. and the EVIL had to go ..... like Ravanism... Chengism.. Temoorism.... Hitlerism... Stalinism... Britishism... Saddamism etc. In future also the EVIL will have to go.... Bush/CIA... Israel/JewishPlot.... Musharraf/ISI Modism/Advanism or any evil... all will go.
Only the good names of Taoism/Confucionism/Rama/Krishna /Abraham/Moses/Jesus/Mohammad/Hazrat Nizamuddin/Chishti Ajmeri/ BahadurShahZafar / Bose /Gandhi will remain and PREVAIL. AND ABOUT OSAMA? HE is like our Bose/Bhagat. Fighter against cruel imperialists.
RE:The Basics Again.... for the New Comers
by naresh gunda on Mar 21, 2007 12:33 PM Permalink
u've brought some good points bro but i wanna know abt why u support osama's philosophy of killing so many people.. we can appreciate their innermost goal but is this the only way to prove the point? we were told they grow n supply harmful drugs like cocaine, etc from afghanistan n pakistan to through out the world.. thts cruel on any count :(
My dear Indigo I have read your message, against my posting on Mar 20, 2007 03:30 PM, wherein you have abused me. I append below your reply for your ready reference:
%u2018by Indigo on Mar 20, 2007 09:14 PM | you (AN ABUSE, AND IT MAY BE BLOCKED, SO I MYSELF IS BLOCKING) shut up your mouth and stop your attempts to divide the hindu into brahmins and dalits. all hindus are one. We will fight all evil till the end and we will triumph. read hinduism and hindu philosophy....and then you will realise your shitty mistake.%u201D
Now, can you or as well as anyone, can quote from my posting that I have ever tried to divide, I repeat divide the HINDU into BRHMINS and DALITS. Any reader can show me how the gentleman Mr. Indigo, has interpreted this. I would be grateful to all the reader, or simple loss of sense of Mr. Indigo by realizing the truth after reading my posting. A append below my posting for reference to all. By heart I heart I am an true Indian and do not believe division, but at the same time I hate fundamentalism. Read my posting on 20.03.07 addressed to Mike Gandhi.
Can anyone have answer, against these truths? by An Indian on Mar 20, 2007 03:30 PM |
Many of the people, who had been trying to advocate the spread of Islam (I am referring mainly whose base are India, including Pakistan and Bangladesh), I pose a simple question because I could never found the answer against a very simple question, as to whether they have gone through their ancestral history and background, as under which circumstances their ancestors were forced for conversion, and the agony and deep pain their ancestors have faced. Can one realize the agony, pain and atrocities their female ancestors (including rape, sex abuse etc.) have suffered? Lots of authentic history is available, as these are not very old. Even today also if someone marries to any Muslim, the Muslim community forces the person (who intend to marry the marry Muslim partner be it boy or girl) for conversion to Islam. I personally have series of example and their subsequent repentant once they realise the blunder they have committed, which sometime results to loss of life even. Is it not disgusting to force someone for conversion or emotionally blackmail as the person has fallen in love. Earlier it was at the point of sword. I wonder as to what it compels a person to abuse their own ancestors whose blessings these fundamentalist are and their old blood. Is Islam not teaching to urinate to their own ancestors, their own forefathers? In this country, 99.99% people are Indian (if you have some hesitation to call as Hindu) and they carry Indian background, then why there is such fanaticism for Arab culture, mind it that there is no relation between culture and religion.
I strongly feel that learned psychologists can throw their opinion, as to how the religious fanaticism (or insane) can kill the whole personality (mentally), where a person lost his natural sensibility to differentiate between truth and illusion, forget their past as well as present. How a person despite acquiring reasonably good qualification does not acquire the education, and they feel themselves proud in captivating their mind and soul to so called illiterate, illogical and fanatic religious leaders (say Mullah / Maulvis etc.), who always use to quote and subsequently interpret and misinterpret from religious book (at all if it pure and religious) as per their own vested interest and always prevent their community people to think logically. For example some Mullah / Mulavis issue FATWAH against Sania Mirza, a young girl brings glory for the country, which is very rare in the community, some Mullah / Maulvi bashes to Shabana Azami, a lady of rare talent, bring glory for the country, educated people never respect our present President H.E. APJ Abdul Kalam, and no young generation wants to like this as he is not fundamentalist so he is not Muslim, few great talent like journalist Saeed Naqvi, despite have talent he never talks logically, he always bashes America and Bush, but never tells the true story of Saddam, about his cruelty, about his son%u2019s cruelty, about his genocides and how Saddam conspired against Iran with the help of America, how did he receive the arms and ammunition, how he invaded Kuwait etc. etc., despite Saeed Naqvi is journalist par at excellence, but religious fanaticism has blocked his thinking and analytical ability and acts like joker. Again, the people ancestors were forced (may be lured also) for conversion, raped their mothers and sisters, now fanatic about their own enemies. How one does not read about their own culture rather study Arab culture, whose illegitimate products they are? Can anyone tell me how one can be so blunt and fool?
PATRIARCHY AND BRAHMANISM ARE TWO SIDES OF SAME COIN. FIRST VICTIM OF BRAHMANISM IS WOMEN. Practice of "Satee", widow burning, BRIDE BURNING, PRACTICE OD DOWERY GIVING, ARE the creation of Brahmanism. Brahmanism declared women ans sudras were their enemies NO:one. Pl go through notorious "Manusmrithy". It is vulgar, immoral, and criminal. Brahmanism is nothing but criminalism. What is "Smartha vicharam"? It iwas practised by Nampoothiri Brahman males against their own women. Brahmanism is the worst of all religions.It is defenceless. So they attack Islam so as to Hunduise Dalits and obc's. Dalits and OBC's consider Brahmanism as their enemy NO: ONE.
RE:PATRIARCHY AND BRAHMANISM ARE TWO SIDES OF SAME COIN. FIRST VICTIM OF BRAHMANISM IS WOMEN.
by Secular Indian on Mar 21, 2007 09:51 AM Permalink
Something interesting that I wasn't aware off but which fits into my understanding:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manusmriti
"It must be pointed out that Manu smriti is questionable especially in that it is not a work that has ever been accepted or even known by traditional orthodox Brahmanis. The very existence of this smriti did not even come into the awareness of traditional Brahman communities in India until it was somehow discovered by the British in the 19th century."
RE:RE:PATRIARCHY AND BRAHMANISM ARE TWO SIDES OF SAME COIN. FIRST VICTIM OF BRAHMANISM IS WOMEN.
by Ekalavyan on Mar 21, 2007 04:27 PM Permalink
You distilled idiots cannot undestand the importartance(negatively) of Manusmrithy. MANU IS THE ARCHITECT OF INDIAN SOCIETY. INDIAN RULING CLASS FOLLOWS MANU'S CODE INSTEAD OF INDIAN PENAL CODE . THERE SHOULD BE A LIMIT INTELLECTUAL IMPOTENCY.
RE:RE:PATRIARCHY AND BRAHMANISM ARE TWO SIDES OF SAME COIN. FIRST VICTIM OF BRAHMANISM IS WOMEN.
by bharatiya on Mar 21, 2007 01:51 PM Permalink
Bravo Secular Indian! I agree with you. Forget Manusmriti, most of the Hindus don't even know what is the first shloka of the Bhagwadgita. We mostly inherit our sanskars & beliefs from our parents, grandparents & the religious preachers (none of whom normally speak about the Manusmriti).
Hinduism & all the other religions born in India are indeed the most tolerant & progressive religions/ ways of life in the world.
RE:RE:RE:PATRIARCHY AND BRAHMANISM ARE TWO SIDES OF SAME COIN. FIRST VICTIM OF BRAHMANISM IS WOMEN.
by Ekalavyan on Mar 21, 2007 04:33 PM Permalink
To you Indianness is mere stupidity. Hinduism is most voilent and most intolerant religion of the world. Dalits and OBC's are its worst victims. We Dalits and OB C's will wipe out Brahmanism from this holy land of Lord Buddha and burry it alive within reasonable period of time.
RE:PATRIARCHY AND BRAHMANISM ARE TWO SIDES OF SAME COIN. FIRST VICTIM OF BRAHMANISM IS WOMEN.
by Secular Indian on Mar 21, 2007 09:06 AM Permalink
What do Satee, dowry, bride burning have to do with Brahmanism ? I've read the Manusmriti and it's not half as bad as the Koran. Secondly for Hindus it's not a book that is considered the word of God or actually read five times a day and seen as a duty to uphold. You can take the Manusmriti out of Hinduism and you will still be left with Hinduism. But if you took Koran out of Islam there would be no Islam and mind you Islam is a lot more intolerant towards a fellow human being and prescribes death as punishment for simply criticizing it.
Hinduism can be fixed (and reform is well underway) but Islam on the other hand is moribund.
RE:RE:PATRIARCHY AND BRAHMANISM ARE TWO SIDES OF SAME COIN. FIRST VICTIM OF BRAHMANISM IS WOMEN.
by Ekalavyan on Mar 21, 2007 01:08 PM Permalink
You sadly missed bus. Every religion can be reformed, except Brahmanism . Brahmanism, Hinduism, vedic religion, sanadana Darma are all one and the same containing sugar coated poison, called Brahmanism. It is to dumped in the Indian ocean at the earliest, so that humanity is saved
RE:PATRIARCHY AND BRAHMANISM ARE TWO SIDES OF SAME COIN. FIRST VICTIM OF BRAHMANISM IS WOMEN.
by sameer on Mar 28, 2007 08:56 PM Permalink
Brahmin boys made this eklav such their dicks. so he is angry with them.
RE:RE:RE:PATRIARCHY AND BRAHMANISM ARE TWO SIDES OF SAME COIN. FIRST VICTIM OF BRAHMANISM IS WOMEN.
by Secular Indian on Mar 21, 2007 01:29 PM Permalink
How can you reform Koran without first quashing it's claim to perfect and the word of God ? Hinduism on the other hand allows for change, implicitly. So before you inflict your ignorance on other, it would be worth your while to get an education first.
1.If a woman and her daughter were both slave (or captive) then you can%u2019t have sex with one of them after the other. Umar forbade this practice%u2026(Malik%u2019s Muwatta 28.14.33)
2.If both sisters are slaves (or captives) then you may or may not have sex with them depending on the interpreter%u2026(Malik%u2019s Muwatta 28.14.34)
3.Can have sex with a slave woman in any manner--- (Hedaya ref.11, p.600)
4.Father can give his slave-girl to his son to do conditional things%u2026(Malik%u2019s Muwatta 28.15.38)
5.A master can have sex with the slave-girl of his male or female slave%u2026(Malik%u2019s Muwatta 29.17.51)
6.Slave-girls are like fields if you wish then water it by ejaculating inside them or leave it thirsty i.e. coitus interruption with slave-girls is optional%u2026(Malik%u2019s Muwatta 29.32.99)
7.No punishment for having sex with the female slaves of a son or a grandson ---(Hedaya ref: 11: page 183)
8.Can%u2019t marry one%u2019s own slave but can have sex with her---(ibid, p.317)
RE:SLAVERY OF WOMEN IN ISLAM
by Ekalavyan on Mar 21, 2007 08:39 AM Permalink
FANTASTIC NONSENSE: CONSULT A PSYCHATRIST URGENTLY. BRAHMANISM WILL BE DROWNED SOON.
RE:RE:SLAVERY OF WOMEN IN ISLAM
by bharatiya on Mar 21, 2007 01:55 PM Permalink
Brahmanism is the philosophy of eternal & all pervasive truth. It has nothing to do with casteism. Undersood? Now go consult a veterinary psychiatrist.
RE:RE:RE:RE:SLAVERY OF WOMEN IN ISLAM
by sat on Mar 21, 2007 05:38 PM Permalink
i mean well done BHARATIYA u have shut the mouth of this moron ekalavyan
RE:RE:SLAVERY OF WOMEN IN ISLAM
by Secular Indian on Mar 21, 2007 09:11 AM Permalink
You actually agree with all the vile and disgusting habits prescribed for Muslims! The best you can come up with is to attack "Brahamanism" not fix the problem, spoken like a true drone of the Arab imperial army.
RE:RE:RE:SLAVERY OF WOMEN IN ISLAM
by Ekalavyan on Mar 21, 2007 04:51 PM Permalink
Islam is million fold humane than immoral , lesbian, criminal , beastish Brahmanism.Historically Islam is a compromise between Judaism and Christianity. It is a modern religion comparing to others. You are attacking Islam to defend inhuman Brahmanism. So you are not spared. Muslims in india are blood brothers of Dalits ans OBC's. They are our allies in our fight against Brahmanism. We will wipe out this immoral creed from this holy land.
RE:SLAVERY OF WOMEN IN ISLAM
by Secular Indian on Mar 21, 2007 04:50 AM Permalink
Disgusting! and this vile cult is called a "religion of peace" and egalitarianism.
BANU-AL-MUSHTALIQ was a prosperous Jewish topwnship
Muhammed did not approve coitus interruption with the captive women of Banu-al-Mustaliq, but he allowed the women to be raped...( 5.59.459
this is where the prophet forced a beautiful jewish girl juwariya to marry him ,after he ordered the killing of her other family memners.
"Narrated Ibn Aun:
I wrote a letter to Nafi and Nafi wrote in reply to my letter that the Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives; the Prophet got Juwairiya on that day. Nafi said that Ibn 'Umar had told him the above narration and that Ibn 'Umar was in that army.%u201D Hadith Volume 3, Book 46, Number 717:
