SIMI is a banned organisation by orders of the SC...I support that strongly. But I am not here to comment on that. I am here because I felt very strongly that I should convey my feelings because I see so much hatred here.
I am a muslim and an ex-army captain. I gave a lot of my youth to serve the country. I was a part of the two biggest operations 'Op Vijay and Op Parakram'. What I am really sad to see here is that people have been writing stuff they dont have knowledge about and mostly based on hearsay or media reports. I dont say that all the facts stated are wrong but the underlying sentiments are somewhat shocking for a person like me who can vouch here that I have been more patriotic than anyone I have met till now. Being patriotic doesnt mean that I only shout on the top of my voice that I am an Indian. Being patriotic means I give my best to my country in whatever I do. Let me tell you friends, everything is not as it seems ...there is a lot of depth to issues and one must read a lot..books are great source of information. i would not recommend the (24 hr) TV media which seems to be influencing the youngsters thoughts these days. Please have a mind of your own and think deeper.
One of the main reasons why muslims in India are easily targetted by terrorists and anti-social elements is the poor economic conditions.A vast majority of 13.4 % muslims in India are mostly living below the poverty line and in slums...areas where you normally do not wish to go or even see. It provides easy hiding places to anti-social elements, gives scope to the ISI to recruit disillusioned muslim youth for subversive activities. let me give you an example of the impact of poverty---many unemployed hindu youth have been apprehended working for Lashkar-E-Toiba in J&K. You can verify the above fact. Poverty cuts across religion. Also, the country today is doing very well one one hand economically but if you see the divide caused across religious , castes and class lines...things are deteriorating. My friends...if you are really feel deeply for the country, try to spread a sense of trust and harmony and happiness among all classes of people. Think of yourself ..first as a human being with a brain and a heart, then Indian and then of any religion whatsoever. Only the strong message of patriotism (not rhetoric & dialogues but real dedication to work), love and brotherhood can heal this country. Please be happy and work towards peace. And last but not the least, condemn all anti-national, anti-social and anti-humanity acts/ people in the same breath!! "Unaan Misr Rome sab mit gaye jahan se, Kuch baat hai ki hasti mit tee nahi humari". Jai Hind!!
RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by Radha Vasan on Feb 16, 2007 12:50 AM Permalink
Well I am Dr. Radha Vasan, from the Indian army also, (AMC), Major, now retd. Let me tell you that 'muslims' are targetted because they do not want to conform to the general consensus in the country for anything, be it in cricket - they openly support Pakistan, be it in religion - they openly defy all bans imposed, be it in population control - they insist on following their religion against a nation's dictats, be it in education - they insist on madrasas, as against taking advantage of the large amounts of reservation kept aside for them in every form of education, in every level of education, in every stage of education!!! Even us hindus, the forward community, do not get so many facilities as the muslims do. Then how do you explain, what you yourself have said - poor economic conditions,below the povery line..........etc etc.
RE:RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by Haresh G. jagtiani on Feb 16, 2007 01:20 AM Permalink
I had gone to karachi from egypt, 20 years ago, and without a visa or a transit visa, by egyptair. The immigration officer in karachi as soon as they saw my Indian Passport, accorded me with very kind istiqbal and welcome, why? God has made all humans alike and it is only we that have created the divide in several ways. If one goes to a remote part of any state in a village and meets a muslim villager, I do not think that that person is hating India and siding any religion/country. Our human lives are a gift of God so that in this human form, God has given us the great oppotunity to reform ourselves and escape the cycle of life and death. Please love humanity. God bless you.
RE:RE:RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by Kaushik Das on Feb 16, 2007 03:57 AM Permalink
are yaar, THAT is the difference, boss. we, being hindus, are peaceful - so they are not threatened by us.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by Kaushik Das on Feb 16, 2007 03:58 AM Permalink
and one of my uncles went to kuwait - even there, in a muslim country, the indians were guided more nobly while paki and bdeshis were searched thoroughly and separately. So, if even mulsim countries have made such decisions, there MUST be some logic to it, no?
RE:RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by shakil ahmed on Feb 16, 2007 01:46 PM Permalink
Sir, With due regard, I would like put a perspective in front of you which you may not be knowing (perhaps ..being in the AMC). Why I said it is easy targetting poor Indian muslims is because someone is out there scouting for them. The ISI....Pakistan started the 'Op Topaz' in the eighties in which the ISI spread through the border villages and the poor muslims areas and recruited agents by giving them large sums of money. The fact is that a lot of disillusionment is there in the lower strata of the community. And therefore it is easy to target them. However...as pointed out by someone..I am in no way justifying anything because of poverty. BUT...a reason is a reason and we have to look at it objectively. Your comments that muslims enjoy reservations in education is wrong. Secondly, I agree with you that the muslims are locked in a very paradoxical situation.. the mullas do not let them get educated in the mainstream and the politicians use them as a vote bank.
RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by ded de on Feb 16, 2007 01:03 AM Permalink
I am convinced that people like you and imran are patriotic whose forefathers have continued to live in this country out of genuine love and affection. I too know muslims who would would enjoy indias victories just as we do(say it,cricket match test invented by a brit. politician). but hindus are not the cause of this hatred that you despise in your messages. as educated muslims you should try to see where the problem lies instead of blaming the hindus. try to find out what really the muslim masses in general does coupled with the tainted history, which is creating this rift.shouldn't you own your responsibility for the holocausts ,shouldn't you stop the practises that offend hindus(do you need to know what are they in case you are naive), shouldn't you stop linking yourself with the greater international muslim brotherhood and only shrink your identity as indian muslim . let the readers know the feelings of you educated and patriotic muslims on the issues i mentioned.
RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by vijay rk on Feb 16, 2007 08:07 AM Permalink
I have been hearing all seculars and moderate muslims shouting at the top of their megaphoes that poverty is the cause for terrorism. But why does this logic not apply to other communities? Do u start killing people because u r poor? How come a billionaire osama bin laden is a terrorist? How come LSE pass out mohammad atta blew himself up? There is something fundamentaly wrong with those islamic scriptures.. Unless u go back and disown them and start looking at others religionists not as kafirs (whom thou shall not suffer to live--i.e kill) but as human beings, others will be forced to take up weapons in their defence.And the clash of civilizations is no more a theory now...
RE:RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by F17 on Feb 16, 2007 03:22 PM Permalink
weapons against Osama & Md. Atta or the whole of indian muslims....
RE:RE:RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by F17 on Feb 16, 2007 03:33 PM Permalink
You are mixing world issues with muslim perspective in India... I have one question why do you believe terrorists when they use religion as their weapon... why not denounce it...
How many Indian muslims endorse terrorist outfits.. So will you think not to generalise indin muslims... Indian muslim enjoy most freedom in India then in any other muslim dominated country & people are slowly accepting this but this change will not be visible soon..
So why such discrimination against the whole community....
RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by Dhiman Mohajan on Feb 16, 2007 01:04 AM Permalink
Your message is good . I partly agree with you that poverty has a role to play for Terrorist. But while supporting terrirst why muslims do not think about their own country atfirst. I belive that you and lots of muslims truely love India but there are lots of Indian Muslims support Pakistan. Religion is their main thing not patriotism. I am sorry if I hart you. But this is true that all over world Muslims support killing of other belivers. That's why there is no peace in any Muslim or Muslim major country. Atfirst Muslims need to be tolerant and peace loving and should respect other religion. And last but not least all the Hindus and Muslims should think that they are Indian atfirst . Jai Hind.
RE:RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by Kaushik Das on Feb 16, 2007 04:06 AM Permalink
I do not agree that poverty has a bearing on terrorism. If that were the case, most terrorism would have emanated from Africa, where conditions are much worse than the slums of India. Instead, terrorism emanates from oil-rich gulf countries.
RE:RE:RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by F17 on Feb 16, 2007 04:55 AM Permalink
Poverty & low education has everything to do with it... For your information most of the countries in Africa are dealing with civil war.... We don't know about this 'coz nobody cares about Africa...
If people are not dieing 'coz of war then there is hunger, poverty & AIDS killing them... In the last 50 years more people have died in Africa due to secreterian violence then in any other part of the world... but there is no oil so nobody is interested in Africa.... There are more child soldiers in Africa then any other part of world....
I will give you one example in 1994 10 lakh tutsi people were killed in Rawanda alone... but we will not label it as terrorism... 'coz we are preoccupied...
We hear about muslim atrocities 'coz other killings are left out... & we all know west's love for oil.. If there would not be oil in middle-east then no body would be interested in muslim countries....
But lets discuss India only & not the world...We tell about muslim appeasement & we ignore the reservation provided by the same politicians to a specific community since independence, I am not asking for reservation but want to tell people hindu's are not left out in the whole appeasement policy...
RE:RE:RE:RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by Kaushik Das on Feb 16, 2007 08:26 AM Permalink
I agree that hindus are not left out of reservation. In fact, i like it that you do not want reservation. However, saying that 'hindus are given reservation' is wrong. certain castes are given reservation and it is actually an affront to hinduism. . Africa - civil war is not the same as terrorism. We are talking of terrorism. I know that 1 million tutsis were killed. I know that there is sectarian violence (and of late, islamic violence, too, if you have heard of somalia and ethiopia). But that is not mandated by religion. in islam's case, the terrorism is not a tribalism. It is a religion-inspired terrorism.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by F17 on Feb 16, 2007 03:19 PM Permalink
But you cannot deny that it is the hindu community who is getting the reservation.. Is it not appeasement....
Now you are justifying terrorism with Africa... Killing people for ones own cause is terorism. reason might be different... You cannot differentiate sectarian violence & terrorism... People in Africa were killed in the same faith..
The point I am against is don't paint All Indian muslims as endorsers of terrorism....
Muslims do need education & social acceptation without discrimination.. We are also thinking for this country...
RE:RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by Kaushik Das on Feb 16, 2007 04:06 AM Permalink
and these SIMI guys are not POOR.
RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by sanjay s on Feb 16, 2007 12:51 AM Permalink
I agree. you have a point here.But it also hurts me ...when a class six muslim student argues the fact that pakistan is smaller in size.where does a 11 year old kind get thyat feeling from?
RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by Kaushik Das on Feb 16, 2007 03:53 AM Permalink
boss, it is this kind of cover-up writing that we guys hate. when 40% of india is under poverty line, as many as (42.4 - 13.4) = 29 crore hindu population is under the poverty line and living in slums where you won't want to go. Then how come they are not becoming terrorists???
RE:RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by pSSn hOMMe on Feb 16, 2007 02:13 PM Permalink
With due regard, I would like put a perspective in front of you which you may not be knowing What I meant was that it is easy targetting poor Indian muslims is because someone is out there scouting for them. The ISI....Pakistan started the 'Op Topaz' in the eighties in which the ISI spread through the border villages and the poor muslims areas and recruited agents by giving them large sums of money. The fact is that a lot of disillusionment is already there in the lower strata of the community makes it a bigger problem. And therefore it is easy to target them. However...as pointed out by someone..I am in no way justifying anything because of poverty. BUT...a reason is a reason and we have to look at it objectively. As I have written and you missed it. In J&K, many hindu militants working for L-e-T were arrested. You can verify the facts. But again, please do not get me wrong..I dont mean that anyone who is poor can become a terrorist or is becoming one. I mean that the chances of a poor Indian muslim of being recruited by ISI is more since the ISI is looking for them and is paying money. Anyway,
RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by vijay parasar on Feb 16, 2007 01:03 AM Permalink
I agree with u but why can't u gaive this lessons to Sonia gandhi, Manmohan singh,Kapil Sibbal &....................................... ..................................... and so on. What they want to prove by appessing the muslim that hindu will shut their eyes /ears and tolerate their interim decisions. U come forward with ur community people (not as a political leader ,but a elder brother revolt againt these goons who have spoild the peace and harmony of the country.
RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by Imran Parihar on Feb 16, 2007 12:42 AM Permalink
Your message is very well written sir, I thank you for translating your feelings into the above words. I think you have skillfully summarised what any ordinary Indian Muslim feels today. Its sad to see none of our patriotic friends who spill hatred in the name of religion on this forum have the courage to accept or acknowledge your words.
RE:RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by Ritul Shah on Feb 16, 2007 12:51 AM Permalink
The biggest enemy of un-educated blue collar muslims in india are the muslim leaders and mullas. They want them to produce more kids to make them a vote bank and do not want them to really study and move ahead.
RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by Kaushik Das on Feb 16, 2007 03:54 AM Permalink
And when was there poverty in J&K, mind you? Even today, it's GDP is above the national average.
RE:RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by Goutam Bhattacharjee on Feb 16, 2007 05:55 AM Permalink
'Liberal' muslims like Mazhab Nahi Sikhata are actually making the Hindus weak at heart. These muslims are small in number and are unable to do anything constructive to stop the actions of subversive organizations like SIMI or Jamat-ulema-hind. But on the contrary, by posting their 'liberal' views on the forum, they are creating confusion among Hindus: whether we should treat Islam as a threat, or as a friend. Moreover, there is no easy way to verify the authenticity of their liberal claims or contribution towards the country. It is quite possible that these supposedly 'liberal' views are also part of a greater agenda: blackmail the Hindus emotionally and not allow them to unite together. So my Hindu friends, please gaurd against these so-called moderate muslims. The bottomline is, Muslims have close to 60 countries to live, where Hindus have only 1. This is OUR homeland and if we lose it, we will have no place to live.
RE:RE:RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by pSSn hOMMe on Feb 16, 2007 02:22 PM Permalink
Dear Goutam, I seriously did not know whether or not to laugh when I read your message. Without any prejudice to your intelligence, I empathize that you are free to feel as you did. However, I must make it clear , at least to you, that I do not have any hidden agenda. And let me tell you another thing very very clearly , Mr Goutam, this country belongs to me and my generations to come and I also firmly believe that the amount of patriotism I carry for this country, you can only imagine (maybe not)! Now, having said that, I have a sincere request. Do not make such funny looking yet misguiding comments. They are not in the interest of any Indian. Neither Hindu nor Muslim. Muslims have 60 countries to live in..Agreed, BUT Indians(not hindus, muslims, sikhs or isaaai's)live only in India.
RE:RE:RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by Kaushik Das on Feb 16, 2007 08:34 AM Permalink
I am aware of it - I have had arguments with so many muslims - moderate, liberal and educated, etc, - and it has all boiled down to the finale that everything in the koran is right and not changeable. They want peace when muslims are killed but not otherwise. They want social justice when muslims are poor but when they have money, they'll buy AK47s with it. They have this tendency to participate in such message boards wherever anything remotely related to islam is discussed. You will not find such mass participation when serious issues are discussed. And they will almost ALWAYS (very few exceptions and I am proud of those exceptions) DEFEND the wrong way. Their whole purpose of 'discussion' is to have others believe in what they are saying.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by Kaushik Das on Feb 16, 2007 08:36 AM Permalink
And they will participate more when the discussion is on iraq and palestine and Bush but not when we are talking issues back here.
RE:RE:RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by Indian on Feb 16, 2007 08:06 AM Permalink
Well said Gautam. These crazy people are contaminating the whole world. If Mohammed can have sex with his 9 yr old wife ( child abuse !!!) then his pupils will be nothing better. I am sorry , this statment is not meant for the Good Indian muslims.
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by F17 on Feb 16, 2007 03:45 PM Permalink
This propaganda is not verified. There is no factual proof for this allegation.. Mohammed did married a young girl but her age is debatable.... nobody can said certain about her age... Most muslim women in that era were married after the age of 14-15.. Its practiced in India also in other religions as well.... Child Marriage's in India is not a myth.... Also child abuse (which is not documented in India as well) but can we say for sure that there is no underage child abuse in India even though child marriage is a reality for ages in India. Does only muslims promote it...
RE:RE:Mazhab Nahi Sikhata , Aapas mein Bair Rakhna : Hindi Hain Hum, Watan hai Hindustan Humara!!
by pSSn hOMMe on Feb 16, 2007 02:00 PM Permalink
Dear Pradip, I had a mind and I decided to give my youth for my army, my country. I do not know you but would like to know what have you done for the country? I do not know why you felt that I was justifying anything at all by giving poverty as a reason for the uneducated & disillusioned muslim youth to join the terrorists. It is a reason since proven and by shutting our eyes and looking the other way, it is not going to change. Anyway, I do not justify inhumanity. But I agree with you that that Islam needs to modernise ...but the way to that is proper normal education and not madrassas where the interpretation is done in the same medieval mindset. Let me give you an example...the reason why i am writing this stuff is because my parents were able to give me some normal mainstream education and I grew up not in a muslim ghetto but in a cosmopolitan atmosphere. Economic growth will not only get more people out of the madrassas but will also get them to the main stream. I know you guys feel that muslims are being given a lot by the govt but if you kindly look around you, you will find that it is mostly rhetoric by politicians and for votes and haj subsidy doesn't contribute anything towards education. I would support the whole haj subsidy to be given for primary education.
As usual this has degenerated in name calling. Nothing constructive is gng to come out of this. People who are blaming muslims in india & taunting them with pakistan should remember that they are here because they wanted to be here. Respect them for that. The more you curse the more you reap. As for the mughals ruling india & the atrocities, this has happened everywhere in the world history. the winner takes it all. also, if the indian muslims want to live peacefully please stop being ruled by mullahs & the religious leaders. nobody stops you from yelling into the mike at 5 in the morning, but if your neighbour does not like the noise DONT do it. remember that though your religion is imported, your culture is not; so do not get mislead into the troubles your muslim "brothers" in other countries fall into. also try to get away from the arabic domination, this is the link which causes you most trouble. of course, there are blindly hating persons on all sides, it is these we must as a nation really fight it out.
Simply by banning some outfits of a particular religion is not the answer, rather constructive efforts should be taken. by taking action against some cheap vote grabbers like The HR minister and others who dont allow saraswati vandana and vande mataram to be sung. The right approach is by making the study of Bhagvad Gita and other puranas compulsory in the school curriculum. Only this can raise the morale and awaken the glory of our Sanatan Dharma in our youth. The muslims of India , pakistan and bangladesh should realise that actually their ancestors were Hindus but by the cruel rule of Muslim rulers they were converted into Muslim.
The recent bombings of the Western Railway system in Mumbai have once again thrown up the same question: Is it possible to dialogue with today?s Islam ? Does it listen to reason ? Does plain logic work ? Will it ever stop killing innocent people in the name of God ? Take these bombings for instance: do they really make sense ? Here you have a Central Government which is heavily pro-Muslim, making sure that a number of Muslims are appointed in top posts, endeavouring to carve a sizable chunk of reservations for Muslims, as seen in Andra Pradesh and constantly pandering to India?s Muslim minority. The bombings also happen in Maharashtra, a state governed by the Congress, where many Muslims live and work, the financial capital of India, whose prosperity benefits all, including Muslims.
The same illogical strain seems to have got hold of the Government of India, whether it is BJP or Congress ruled. We keep hearing that those blasts, in Delhi, Vanarasi or Mumbai, are the work of the ISI of Pakistan or Bangladeshi extremists. But what they don?t say is that it would be impossible for these people to function unless they have a lot of ground sympathy amongst local Indian Muslims. And the question has to be asked again: why should Indian Muslims go against their own Government, which has done so much for them since Independence ? Why should Indian Muslims target India, a country where they have more freedom than in say Pakistan, or Saudi Arabia ?
Every time also, the Government comes out with the same litany: ?these acts are meant to create communal violence, be peaceful, don?t react?. Which basically means, ? You Hindus (who are targeted), keep quiet and get killed. Who cares anyway?. And a few months later, another blast takes the lives of a few more innocent Hindus. But how long will the Hindus keep quiet? This is the question that the Indian Government has to ask itself. Gujarat has paved the way: However reprehensible these acts of mass vengeance were, they have shown that Hindus keep quiet for a long time: they get riled at, they are made fun of, they are despised, their women raped, men killed, children burnt in trains and one day they blow up - and blow up badly. Riots don?t erupt in a few days: they are the fruit of decades, of generations even, of suppressed anger, of frustration, of a silent majority which sees itself more and more marginalized and taken for granted.
Yes, we do occasionally come across wonderful Muslims, open, friendly, who have somehow preserved the knowledge that all religions are the same, that Islam in India owes a lot to the tolerance of Indians, that Hinduism, yoga, meditation and pranayama, are India?s gifts to the world and can be practiced by Muslims, Christians and Hindus alike. I have personally met quite a few of them, within the Art Of Living Family, for example. But they are such rarities. And even those educated Muslims, whom you can talk to, will not go as far as criticizing the Koran. Look at Javed Akhtar?s poetic tearjerker on the Bombay blasts (?As a human being, I shudder to think how can my fellow humans do something so heinous? Are these terrorists made of flesh and blood? Do they laugh and cry like us??). Not once Akhtar, who has made a favourite pastime of deriding Hindu Gurus, said that all these crimes are committed in the name of Islam and the Koran, ?his? religion and ?his? Scriptures
So will Islam ultimately convert itself? Because the problem is not with Muslims, but with the Koran. Will it, instead of feeling totally paranoiac, thinking that it is under attack everywhere, whether it is Palestine, Chechnya, Kashmir, or France, realize that it is actually Islam which is the aggressor all over the world, that Muslims who have settled in France or India, or the UK, and which these countries have sincerely accepted, giving them citizenship and the same rights as any French, Indian or German citizens, are actually biting the hand that fed them ? Will the mullahs of Islam accept to sit down and reform the Koran, which is a perfectly acceptable scripture for the Middle ages, when mentalities were very different, but which today still propagates an aggressive, exclusive, and dangerous zeal in its children?
This is what we are all hoping for. This is what most Western leaders secretly crave for, when they go out of their way to praise and favour the moderate Muslims of their country. This is what spiritual leaders like His Holiness Sri Sri Ravi Shankar are attempting, with a certain amount of success, by speaking to Muslim leaders, fostering ties in Muslim countries such as Iraq or Afghanistan, or reforming Kashmiri terrorists through meditation.
Unfortunately, time is running out. Muslims in India and elsewhere in the world do not understand is that we are slowly losing our innocence. At the moment, Islam still benefits from the sympathy of the media, which constantly negates Islamic fundamentalism, making a hero for instance of the Chechen warlord Shamil Bassayev, recently killed, who organized the gruesome massacre of hundreds of children in Beslan and a villain of Vladimir Putin (or a hero of Sadddam Hussain and a monster of Bush) but it is slowly losing that sympathy. Sooner or later nearly the entire world will wage a war against Islam, from Europe to China, from the Ural to Pakistan.
There will also come a time, which is not very far, where everybody will become wary of anything Islamic. Anyone looking slightly Muslim, in a plane, in a train, in a shopping mall, will be looked upon suspiciously. Anybody with a Muslim name will have problems entering any country. Those who have Muslim friends will quietly stop seeing them or find some excuses not to meet them. It is already happening. Muslims will cry themselves hoarse and speak of persecution. But they will have only themselves to blame: they did not speak up as a community when innocents all over the world were killed in the name of their religion .
And this may be the way Islam will slowly disappear. Muslims with a little common sense, or just maybe with a sense of survival, will start changing their names quietly, they will stop going to the Mosque, they will send their children to Christian or Hindu schools. Governments will clamp down so hard on their own Muslims, there will be so many restrictions on them, that entire families, will move out of the Muslim enclaves you find all over the world, to resettle elsewhere. Jehadis facing certain death even if they are not suicide bombers, will melt back in civilian life. Muslims will slowly lose faith in the righteousness and the power of their own religion, become atheists, or even embrace back Hinduism, as 90% of Muslims in India are Hindu converts. It may take a few decades, a hundred years even, But Islam will surely disappear in the alleys of history and what look now like menacing, dangerous, foreboding force will be looked upon as just another religion that came and passed away. Unless Islam converts itself?
RE:WILL ISLAM CONVERT ITSELF? - Fran?s Gautier
by ded de on Feb 16, 2007 12:36 AM Permalink
Also we need to record the recent holocaust. the butchering of hindus during partition. thousands of hindus were killed in a day of "Great Calcutta Killing" and the progrom still continues in "liberated" bangladesh. it must have taken a great genius in our secular leaders to have made bengalis forget that incident. even my mother , a very small girl then ,can recall that incident .alas, i have never heard any voices commemorating and mourning for that holocaust. such a recent and so gruesome memory of an aggrieved nation could be so easily manupulated and obliterated by clever politicians, i wonder what they have done to 1000 year history of our country .
RE:RE:WILL ISLAM CONVERT ITSELF? - Fran?s Gautier
by vijay parasar on Feb 16, 2007 12:40 AM Permalink
can anyone of u can tell where is East Bengal in India??????
RE:RE:WILL ISLAM CONVERT ITSELF? - Fran?s Gautier
by mujju sss on Feb 16, 2007 12:43 AM Permalink
wat abt sikhs killing six lakhs muslims during partition... i think u want to tell that u are even more great genius ...
RE:RE:RE:WILL ISLAM CONVERT ITSELF? - Fran?s Gautier
by Kaushik Das on Feb 16, 2007 05:49 AM Permalink
They were killing the traitors who were going to a traitor nation.
RE:WILL ISLAM CONVERT ITSELF? - Fran?s Gautier
by mujju sss on Feb 16, 2007 12:40 AM Permalink
Hey Mr.Gautier
Its very easy to write pages and pages on the this topic.why do u worry about Islam converting itself? If u have guts you yourself convert to Islam and then ask everyone the same question you asked above... I challenge you and Im sure you will definelty not ask for you have not seen wat true Islam is.. ..
RE:RE:WILL ISLAM CONVERT ITSELF? - Fran?s Gautier
by hellboy on Feb 16, 2007 01:54 AM Permalink
Ya i know what it is .Islam is a result of Mohammeds dirty sefish military needs devoid of spirituality. koran is obsessed with killing kaffirs , sharing the booty from wars including women . A way of life thats has frozen in middle ages. A belief which doesn't tolerate co-existence with other religions. ITS A DISEASE.
RE:RE:RE:WILL ISLAM CONVERT ITSELF? - Fran?s Gautier
by Imran Parihar on Feb 16, 2007 03:24 AM Permalink
That is probably the reason its the fastest growing religion in the world and a threat to the western nations. I think you feel very safe and secure hiding behind a computer and abusing a religion and The Holy Prophet after watching CNN or some RSS/Bajrang Dal lecture.
RE:RE:RE:RE:WILL ISLAM CONVERT ITSELF? - Fran?s Gautier
by drax on Feb 16, 2007 11:31 AM Permalink
Quality is important not quantity. If all the barbarians and uneducated, uncultured people in the world convert to Islam(Is it natural affinity) what doers it speak of Islam itself.
RE:RE:RE:RE:WILL ISLAM CONVERT ITSELF? - Fran?s Gautier
by ded de on Feb 16, 2007 03:43 AM Permalink
thats better than a osama or l-e-t video that you may have just seen and hiding behind another computer. as far as growth is concerned islam matches that of drug addiction and also growth of islam has been almost congruent to growth of terrorism and killings of innocent people(i assume you know statistics and can yourself create a good correlation coefficient from the available data about growth of the two).also primary source of growth of islam is multiplication. very similar to virus . another source is among antisocials like prisoners ,rapists (mike tyson et al) and now you know how and what type of things can grow.
RE:RE:RE:RE:WILL ISLAM CONVERT ITSELF? - Fran?s Gautier
by Kaushik Das on Feb 16, 2007 08:46 AM Permalink
There are several tactics used to get poor converts. The ones who are really spiritual are converting to hindootwa. The ones who have inferiority / superiority complexes need to hide behind 'the fatest growing religion'.
RE:RE:WILL ISLAM CONVERT ITSELF? - Fran?s Gautier
by Kaushik Das on Feb 16, 2007 05:54 AM Permalink
rather, in that case, he would be too afraid of the mullahs and fatwas. mujju, do YOU have the guts to face the TRUTH about your own religion?
RE:WILL ISLAM CONVERT ITSELF? - Fran?s Gautier
by bharath hindu on Feb 16, 2007 12:09 AM Permalink
good article...i have always loved Mr.Gautier's articles..this hould be an eye opener to our so called intellects like javed akhtar, shabana azmi, arundathi roy, amir khan...
RE:RE:WILL ISLAM CONVERT ITSELF? - Fran?s Gautier
by vijay parasar on Feb 16, 2007 12:39 AM Permalink
dear Gautier, u are right and slowly all other relgion is getting against Islam and a day will come when the muslims will have to repent on their deeds but that would be too late.
During the Mughal period everywhere the Muslim population in India grew from a few thousands to more than 50 millions. At the same time a continuous stream of Muslims migrated to India from every where.
April is remembered as holocaust month in USA. In April 1945, the liberating allied forces in Germany brought the human killing factories to the attention of the world. More than 11 millions people including 6.5 million Jews were systematically killed in scores of Nazi concentration camps.
The world remembers only what you let the world not forget it. The story of Hindu holocausts is of such a magnitude that over the centuries it has reduced the Hindu lives of lesser significance. These thoughts were triggered last month by a visit to the Gadar Memorial Center, San Francisco. This Reflection is a corollary to the article that I recently did on the Spirit of the Gadar.
Few remember how the forces of Temur butchered the entire Meerut city of nearly 300,000 population. His anger was ignited when one of his soldiers was beaten to death for raping a Hindu woman. In 1398, Temur invaded India on the pretext that 'the Muslim sultans of Delhi were showing excessive tolerance to their Hindu subjects'. Mind it, the Hindus were living in their own homeland!
The trails of Hindu carnage particularly in Panipat and Delhi during three months (Sep to Dec) were so devastating that Delhi took 100 years to rebuild it. The Hindu mothers used to hush their crying babies to silence by Temur's name. The Hindukush (means the killing field of the Hindus) in Afghanistan is a living testimony of Hindu genocide when the region was Islamicised.
Under the Mughals, the atrocities over the Hindus reached new heights during 48 7 year reign of Aurangzeb and his son. It was a cultural genocide. SAVA MANN JANEU JALANA (nearly 1000 Lbs. of sacred thread worn underneath by 'baptised' Hindus put to flame every day) is proverbially etched in the memories. The Hindus had to pay two separate taxes for living in Hindustan! It was during this period that the Muslim population in India grew from a few thousands to more than 50 millions. At the same time a continuous stream of Muslims migrated to India from every where.
The British fully understood the psyche of the Indians drawn from politically active religions Hinduism and Islam . Their major thrust was to cut the vital roots of Hindu culture by spreading nonsensical theories on the origin of the Hindus, Vedic interpretations, and imposing damaging systems on education, agriculture and flourishing cottage industry. After quelling India's 1857 Rebellion, they imposed extraordinary levies on land and special taxation that gradually broke the will of the people to live.
This is the approach that the Germans took in working the inmates of the concentration to death while keeping them under nourished. The new diseases of plague, small pox, tuberculosis and typhoid not existing in India before the advent of the British started wiping the Indian populace in hundreds and thousands a day. It also happened to the native populations in many countries in North and South America when the European colonisers occupied them. It is the world's first biological warfare!
According to the British Gazetteer, 19 millions died of famine. 15 millions died of plague and malaria according to Sir William Digby during 1891-1900. Hundreds died in Bankura, Bengal and Rajputana in the famine 1915-16. 7,251,257 (Yes, more than 7 millions!) died from plague during 1897-1913.Theactual numbers may be double. These are the most recent holocaust of India, and the Hindus were the worst hit.
The Gandhi movie captures this human condition when Gandhi after his return from South Africa, tours India during 1915-18. During my 1987 tour of Rajasthan, I often wondered at the absence of tall and strong men who could carry 100 Lbs. of battlefield armor of Maharana Pratap as displayed in Agra Fort during 1980's. What happened to the generations of such sturdy men? The same was observed in Gujarat and Bihar. Most men and women were hardly 5' tall and weighing 80 Lbs. Orissa, Bihar and Bengal are still worse. Imagine the lost generations during 1880's through Independence in 1947.
In half of his autobiography, My Experiments with Truth, Gandhi has tangentially mentioned how in South Africa the British treated the Muslims as a race better than the Hindus. But the most glaring example of Hindu racial inequity is the crime punishment schedule in Saudi Arabia. There are numerous instances that go to prove that the Hindu life comes cheap.
When a member of Nazi death squad was asked, "How could you shoot at the innocent Jews?" The answer was, "Because they don't resist!" A similar question was posed to Gandhi, "Do you believe that your non-resistance policy would work against the Germans?"
The Sikhs faced the gruesome genocide after Banda Bahadur Bairagi. It is incredible that his torture-to-death moved Nobel Laureate Tagore 200 years later to compose a poem.
According to one reliable source, 43% of the Sikh population in Punjab was literally hunted down during 1716-1738. This holocaust is called Ghalughara in Sikh history. Every Sunday the Sikhs are reminded of it!
I owe it to my name, my scholarship and my lofty Hindu heritage for bringing these buried holocausts out so that the present generations stand up to political events in India and overseas. The awareness of these historical monstrosities shall awaken the racial self-esteem of the Hindus. The Hindus in India will emerge strong like the Jews in Israel. The time is ripe for making a documentary on the holocausts of India. I have broached this subject to a young documentary producer, Arti Jain.
RE:*THE HOLOCAUSTS IN INDIA* *By Satish Chandra*
by bharath hindu on Feb 16, 2007 12:10 AM Permalink
good article...it's a shame on us Hindus..who have hopelessly adapted to the sufferings and exploitations of other people.. in the name of "peace loving"...how spineless of us...
RE:*THE HOLOCAUSTS IN INDIA* *By Satish Chandra*
by Rohit on Feb 16, 2007 09:55 PM Permalink
Very interesting. However since we are talking about history what about the massive massacre carried out by Ashoka the great of Hindus in Kalinga. Ashoka was a himself a Hindu. The point is these massacres have more to do with a medieval mindset than religion. The kings could not tolerate any opposition to their dictates religios or otherwise. How does that make today's Muslims dangerous. By that token all upper caste hindus today should be held accountable for thousands of years of "holocaust" of Dalits.
RE:*THE HOLOCAUSTS IN INDIA* *By Satish Chandra*
by vijay parasar on Feb 16, 2007 12:45 AM Permalink
Till Independenc there was nmo mosque in indian part of Punjab now can't count the nos. even with the help of calculators.
RE:RE:*THE HOLOCAUSTS IN INDIA* *By Satish Chandra*
by Rocky Kapoor on Feb 16, 2007 12:55 AM Permalink
very good article. Please keep posting. Can be an eye opener
RE:*THE HOLOCAUSTS IN INDIA* *By Satish Chandra*
by drax on Feb 16, 2007 11:36 AM Permalink
Unfortunately so long as India follows this Democratic nonsense where all kinds of idiots having divisive narrow tendencies keep getting elected by illiterate and unintelligent voters there is no hope for India I suppose. India expressly requires a spell of Military rule or a benevolent dictator with iron hand.
RE:*THE HOLOCAUSTS IN INDIA* *By Satish Chandra*
by ded de on Feb 16, 2007 12:04 AM Permalink
very much interested in your project.have been thinking about that myself and i am sure there are many others .but it seems you are the right person who can carry it forward or we can form a larger interest group.
RE:RE:Why ban SIMI, ban ISLAM...
by chaitanya kumar on Feb 15, 2007 11:33 PM Permalink
Indian Muslims must quit being slaves of their Arab masters. Mohammed was a sick guy. He butchered many in Medina along with his tribal army. The stories are scary.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Why ban SIMI, ban ISLAM...
by Kaushik Das on Feb 16, 2007 08:57 AM Permalink
I think the name of the daughter in law was Ruqaiya and not Zainab. And imran ali, the lanka war was fought to FREE Seetaa, not to sexually enjoy women. The war of Mahabhaarata was fought for the RIGHT against the WRONG, after many, many attempts of reconciliation failed. Again, the winners did not target the women of the losing party. There are several lessons to learn from the Mahaabhaarata on righteousness. It is strange that you are using these epics to justify the wrongs of a false man.
RE:well written rohit
by ashish bhalla on Feb 15, 2007 11:35 PM Permalink
well mr mohammad by praising Rohit's observations we dont get the DRIFT of your allegiance. Is it India or SIMI/terriorism? well i think you should be more explicit in such forums about which side of the fence you are. I have to write this since people of this country want to know today where lies the indian muslim's patriotism. is it with pakistan or is it with india? in cricket i have seen for myself where your community's support lies - yes you guessed right - its Pakistan. I have had the 'opportunity' of sitting through an entire india-pak match (when i was a student in a muslim institution) to hear pakistan being cheered and india booed throughout the match. Do you want to know which institution was this? Yes you guess right its the same place where SIMI was born (and so was Pakistan), its the same place where the national flag was burnt in the campus. The cauldron of all hatred in this country. The genesis of India's biggest enemy. ALIGARH MUSLIM UNIVERSITY. Indira Gandhi - Thank you!!
RE:RE:well written rohit
by Mohamed Aslum on Feb 16, 2007 12:58 AM Permalink
Hailing from south india, I have only heard about aligarh muslim university and about its support for Pakistan. I wonder if these people support pakistan, why are they still in India? Let me guess, the reason is that pakistan is a muslim country? So, where does India stand? having the 2nd largest muslim population in the world does not mean anything to these guys in Aligarh. How stupid they can be? The university gets funding from Indian government, their professors gets UGC grants, research students gets grants and commissions from india but they support pakistan??!!!! I sometimes wonder what is the use of them being educated? I wish they visit Pakistan to see and compare the two nations and especially speak to the people who migrated from India to pakistan after the partition and to understand how they are treated!
RE:well written rohit
by MMMMMMMMM on Feb 16, 2007 12:33 AM Permalink
yes i agree with you except the name it is "ALIGARH ANTI-INDIA MUSLIM UNIVERSITY"
RE:RE:well written rohit
by Rohit on Feb 16, 2007 01:26 AM Permalink
You have forgotten that it is the AMU which produced great progressive forward looking and modern and totally patriotic Indian thinkers like Irfan Habib.
Having seen some of the comments below on Muslim terrorism I have to write this message.Terrorism is not only Muslim but of all variety. However the problem with most terrorists is that they are fighting on a totally negative platform--namely hate,destruction and revenge. They are not revolutionaries who want to change the world but merely reactionaries. SIMI is also such an organization. NOne of these organization have a vision and a plan for the future based on inclusion rather than exclusion,love rather than hate, peace rather than war. Hence the Supreme court has done well by giving this judgement. Let us discuss this issue not as a Muslim issue but as an issue about an organization which is medieval in nature and wants the nation to regress and break up and is also anti people. All such organizations need to be banned and exposed through an enlightened debate.
RE:The problem with terrorists
by warren pinto on Feb 16, 2007 12:05 AM Permalink
thanks alot.you seem to be the only sane person around.you have great sense of reason unlike the other zealots around warren
RE:The problem with terrorists
by bharath hindu on Feb 15, 2007 11:32 PM Permalink
when do you so called "seculars" realize the ground reality?? see.. no body wants to kill one another..but if 99% of the community is responsible for 99% of the problems then obviously every one would blame that community...having said that..that does not mean that we are not seculars..we are actually nationalists who are trying hard to make our "secular" brothers understand that..."one cannot go to a war with a stick no matter how brave he is, to fight his oppenent who is armed with an AK47"..
RE:The problem with terrorists
by vipin pm on Feb 15, 2007 11:31 PM Permalink
rohit why dont you go to kashmir now, shariat has become a law now in kashmir.is it because there are lot of organizations in kashmir having great "organizational vision" ?
RE:RE:The problem with terrorists
by Rohit on Feb 16, 2007 12:29 AM Permalink
You have read me wrong. I am against all terrorism. The question is how do we we tackle it. Do we tackle it with the objective of taking revenge or to defeat their designs comprehensively and forever so that no India will support terrorism.
RE:RE:The problem with terrorists
by Rohit on Feb 16, 2007 12:47 AM Permalink
Thanks Vipin. You have brought in a very important point. What is the great "organizational vision" these so called Muslim organizations have in Kashmir? It is this :- keep the people uneducated, oppress women, keep everyone poor and involved in religion(Shariat) so that they do not confront real issues like poverty, corruption etc. Their vision is nothing more than a throwback to middle ages. Do you think this can really last. The people have seen through this. They are only silent because they are being held at the point of the gun by these terrorists. The day they rise they will do away with all these regressive organizations. Also please don't underestimate the Indian army.
RE:RE:The problem with terrorists
by MMMMMMMMM on Feb 16, 2007 12:38 AM Permalink
People like you what we needed in India,you all long beard fools listen carefully you want to fight like man we are ready.Let it be Intellectual war,Street war or Military war,we are ready.....
RE:The problem with terrorists
by Shadow on Feb 15, 2007 11:29 PM Permalink
YOUR OBSERVATIN IS CRAP!.. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!.
you are one of those SICKULAR stupids who thing 'all things that is white is milk' attitude!.
When the mustlim population increases by another 10% you will see a moslem outside your door with a big sword asking you to convert to islam, then let me see whether you talk lie this!.
RE:RE:The problem with terrorists
by Kaushik Das on Feb 16, 2007 09:03 AM Permalink
but boss, everyone IS adopting that mindset. And you talked about history. What great thing is there in history about muslims? Don't you think they tried to convert us? but we also had kings to protect us. Still they succeeded in becoming 5 lakhs before the British took over.
RE:RE:The problem with terrorists
by Rohit on Feb 16, 2007 12:39 AM Permalink
You have either no sense of history or you are getting emotional or you are deliberately ignoring facts. Muslims ruled this country for centuries and had huge armies at their disposal. When they could not convert all Hindus to Islam do you really think that can happen in the future? You have completely missed the point. The issue is how to secularise and modernise everyone including Muslims. Religion should only be a personal matter not a matter of politics and coercion. If some people in the country have a medieval mindset it does not necessarily mean everyone should adopt that mindset. Random explosions will not work. One needs to confront religious zealotry intelligently and not emotionally.
RE:RE:RE:regarding SIMI
by ashok krishnamoorthy on Feb 16, 2007 05:52 AM Permalink
if there is a big forest all it takes to start a forest fire is a small fire and hot winds. simply the small fire can't blame that it spread into a big forest fire.
if muslims think that just bcos they killed 59 hindus in the train only 59 muslims should be killed in return then they are proving that they are outright dumb
RE:regarding SIMI
by chaitanya kumar on Feb 15, 2007 11:11 PM Permalink
Ferozbhai, what about 300 Hindus who were killed by Muslims a the same time after Godhra incident where 59 where burned to death. Why no one talks about that 300. Why do they focus on 700 Muslims killed? Are they not human beings? Make no mistake. Hindu anger is building up due to these attitudes from mainstream press.
