RE:Samvaidhanik Samapti
by jayant shukla on Feb 12, 2007 07:22 AM Permalink
WHAT CONSTITUTION? It has been changed hundred times. Why it cannot be changed further thousand times? If need be a new constituent Parliement can sit and form a new document .
RE:Samvaidhanik Samapti
by Surajit Dash on Feb 12, 2007 07:27 AM Permalink
Was the Clause of Reservation for SC and ST, put forth by Ambedkar, to go on for ever? Did Ambedkar approve continuation till now? Don't you think that needs to be changed now? It was for a fixed no of years to bring parity with other social classes. Why the parties are trying to sit over that?
Constitution is not the Vedas, or The Manu Samhita, that can't be changed. If you people are so fond of social changes, then why the constitution cant be changed ?
There is no need for Hindus to substantiate as to why they need to have Hindu Front. They need not prove a point about this. At this hour, we have started this and we will have it.
Yes, the inequality in Hindus are more glaring because they are depicted so by the Media. This exists even in Muslim and Christian Community. The root cause of this inequality is not the caste but the economic power of the community at that point of time. This was disguised in the name of caste so that nobody could question them. This cannot be taken as a excuse that Hindu Community is not United. Those days are getting over and now Dalits are performing pooja in temples. So, we are changing, but not other religions, in India.
We as Hindus are welcome to all sections of society, that shows our greatness. This has been all along misused by the other communities, Muslims in particular. Just because Hindus kept quiet, the politicians today are not implementing reservation on the basis of economic criteria.
When the whole country thought that the huge population was coming the way to india's progress, it was the hindu generation which sacrificed by having not more than 2 children. The minorities in the name of their religion continued to have any number of children. In the next ten years, we will be in a position of 50:50 and at that time we will have no say in our own home. THE BETTER THE SOONER.
The first thing once we acheive this is to change the name to HINDUSTAN OR BHARAT or any word which has a Hindu identity.
This Hindu apoliticial organization should call the shots at the Parliament.
Lets not say Jai Sriram, or Jai Hanuman or Jai Eshwar and further alienate ourselves.
RE:Yes. This is the need of the hour
by Srijeet Chaudhuri on Feb 12, 2007 07:02 AM Permalink
Mr.Rao you have a very intelligent and realistic answer for the above cause. I wish there are more people like yourself, then India would be an undoubted example of peace and religious tolerance throughout the whole world. Then, people would realize how much false information is generated by ISI& Pakistan which drives the zealots in Kashmir and Bangladesh crazy!!! You are an example of a real HINDU.
RE:Yes. This is the need of the hour
by chaitanya kumar on Feb 12, 2007 06:21 AM Permalink
You have put it well. But saying that Hindus will be reduced to 50% in a decade due to natural growth of others is a little exaggeration. That's not the issue anyway. Hinduism is being attacked in India and it doesn't happen to majority this way to any other nation. That's the scary part. Hindus must assert their space, reduce the differences between them and let their voice known as a Hindu as others always do as a Christian or a Muslim. If you don't, it will be miserable death of some well nurtured progressive values that have been redefined for millenia and inspired people like Tagore...like, if it makes the hippies feel any better, Einstein and Hesinberg and many others like them who read the Gita and Upanishads and identify with it than their own scriptures. Your culture along with you. It's simple. Be a Hindu. Be proud to be one and this is your motherland. Work on that platform to make India a better nation.
RE:RE:Yes. This is the need of the hour
by khusi zindagi on Feb 12, 2007 08:57 AM Permalink
Well i request u 2 c the population growth in india as per the religion basis and there are more muslims born in india then hindus, the fact remains that muslim are not getting proper education and they are not in the mainstream. just try 2 recall one muslim enterprenour or a powerful muslim leader in india...we need to educate them first and then expect them to talk sense, even after so many years of muslim rule its the hindus who are florishing in india and this in itself says a million words...
RE:RE:RE:Yes. This is the need of the hour
by MadhuSudanGopal Rao on Feb 12, 2007 09:13 AM Permalink
Well, if muslims too had themselves in a situation wherein they could have sent children to school, whatever you say would not have happened. If you have more kids than what you can actually take care of, why blame the other religion. I hope you understand the economics of life
RE:RE:Yes. This is the need of the hour
by MadhuSudanGopal Rao on Feb 12, 2007 08:33 AM Permalink
Hi Chaitanya I request you to Come out of all these book talk and see the Hindu community in a realistic way.
These wont take us any way. Unless you make an impact, you are not heard. Some of the values which you referred are ought to be respected all times and they worked at the times they were expressed because at that time there were compatibale listeners. Now, you cannot find one.
People have changed and change is the keyword for this.
Gita and Upanishad have never told Hindus not to be united or never to form a forum to he heard. They did not foresee that we would be in such a grave situation now.
RE:Yes. This is the need of the hour
by khusi zindagi on Feb 12, 2007 08:46 AM Permalink
the father of church in the white dress is always the symbol of purity and the local pundit jee is a greedy man looking for more dakshina, this is a usual mindset in india, the fact that we cant see is that even the pope advocates against use of birth pill, there is not much difference if u go in depth of these religions, wat the christians have done is that d everything in a sense of cleanliness and thats y u may have noticed that the nun working in the charity always wear pressed and clean white clothes... i always wonder how there clothes never get dirty when they say that they are working for the unlift of the poors of the society....
Hi All fellow Indians. India remained united because of muslims it seems because every one has got common enemey in muslim.Just think about it. I heard one hindu colleague telling me about another hindu colleague who was a sindhi that if you see a snake and a sindhi then kill sindhi and not snake!!!! A maratha hindu refused to work in Pune because it has lot of Brahmin dominanace!!! I as a muslim was shocked to hear this because if my hindu friends feel about the people of same religion then what should a muslim think? I came across web sites like hinduunity.org which only talks against muslims in the name of uniting hindus. Please tell me what exactly was contribution of Muslim rulers to muslims in India? Did they build only masjids all over or build madrasaa's or universities only for muslims? What did they do to for 700 years of their rule in Indian subcontinent. And if Islam was forcibly spread in India then 700 year was too long a time to make every one muslim.How do you think Christianity spread? Why educated people like us starts bashing muslims and spit venom?? If educated people have such thoughts then what can be said about illitrate people. Why can't we talk about unity of India as a whole???
I am all for HINDU UNITY, but a UNITY, which springs from positive aspects and dosent' depends on negative aspects(like hate or fear of other religions). We should all strive hard to totally eliminate caste and gender discrimination from the HINDU SAMAJ. I dream of a day when a tribal woman (from BASTAR or MAYURBHANJ ) or a dalit woman(from Tamilnadu or Kerala) armed with the knowledge of VEDAS and UPANISADAS, will conduct a DURGA PUJA in the heart of KOLKATA or a GANESH PUJA in the HEART of MUMBAI. I am sure that day, heart of BHARAT MATA will overflow with tears of joy. We all must honestly strive hard to make this dream a reality. I would like hear the comments of my fellow sisters and brothers on this. With love/regards, Monodeep Chakraborty, Institute of Physics, Bhubaneswar, INDIA. monodeep@iopb.res.in
RE:HINDU UNITY
by Surajit Dash on Feb 12, 2007 03:19 AM Permalink
Dear Brother Monodeep,
The "Dalit" will no longer be "Dalit" when she performs the DURGA Puja or the GANESH puja, being armed with the knowledge of Vedas Or Upanishads. One who raises himself to that level can never be a Dalit. "Dalit" is a state when he does not. BTW, Dalit is a symbol of the social status rather than knowledge of Vedas or Upanishads. You can't elevate a Dalit by teaching him Vedas.
There was never any Gender discrimination in Hinduism. Have you heard of great women in Hindism such as - GARGI, ANUSUYA, AHALYA and do you realize that Hinduism is the only religion that has Godesses along with Gods ?
Castes will always be there... Castes that you are talking about are based on birth. Castes in a Hindu social structure are actually based on one's nature of work and intellect level. Can you ensure that you will never be served by anyone? The moment some one serves you He becomes a "Shudra". How can you eliminate that? Krishna in the Bhagwat Geeta has said -- "Catur Varna Maya Shrushtwa" (The Four Varnas - castes have been created by me). Thats truth and you have to live with that.of course by having respect for the lower castes and not hatred...(I Dont think that you'll salute the security at your gate instead of he saluting you!!)
RE:RE:HINDU UNITY
by priya on Feb 12, 2007 04:17 AM Permalink
Mr Surajit Dash,
Krishna may have created caste, but people only remembered to follow caste not Krishna. He placed the castes horizontally, none upper or lower than others, but stupid wicked people chose to give it a vertical structure, destroying the essence of what Krishna meant.
RE:RE:RE:HINDU UNITY
by Surajit Dash on Feb 12, 2007 05:27 AM Permalink
Krishna himself did not belong to a higher caste... Didn't he belong to a "Dalit" community? Was there a forum like this to support him? He was a champoin in his own right. The greatest politician of his time... who made him that?
Its not the matter of "Dalits" or superior castes. Anyone who has the capabilty like Krishna, can't be stopped. Krishna, being a "Yadav", was respected by the Kshatriyas and brahmins too!!
No one knows Krishna defined the castes - Horizontally or Vertically. How do you know that? (I'd request the references to the horizontal definition). But, I know that the castes have been defined by nature of work and not by birth. We have many in respected professions who are Dalits... are they not respected in profession? Why the insistence is only on performing Pujas in temples? If Dalits, then why not Muslims?
Caste system was never horizontal, because the division of work can never be horizontal. A teacher can't be treated equally in any society as a sweeper. If that happens, no one will work hard to be a higher official, teacher, Doctor, Engineer.. Everyone will leave studies to become sweepers. There will be a social instability, which I see has already begun.
I have said in my earlier response that, we have to live with the caste system but with respect for other castes.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:HINDU UNITY
by Surajit Dash on Feb 12, 2007 05:45 PM Permalink
Dear Borat,
Dont Be mistaken. You to would be having a servant at home. You to would be having a Security Guard who salutes you every day when you reach your office. You too would be surrounded by several people who serve you. Crying at the Caste system is your hipocricy. Can you live without all these people?
What do you know about Hinduism? Where do you see oppressed lower caste people? The Sati System is not a characteristic of Hinduism, rather its a feature of a particular class of people belonging to a particulr place... thats their social tradition and Hinduism has nothing to do about it. I have never heard of a single case of Sati in states like Orissa, bengal, Bihar, MP, Maharastra and the southern states. Have you? Or you think there are no Hindus here? Treatment for Widows and dowry, I too accept as a Bad practice. But dont you think them to be more of a social stigma than religious? Do you think that these treatments are pravelent only in the Hindu society?
People who do not understand the essence of Hinduism, and dont have the courage to practice it in life. need to learn from the hollow culture of the west. The West leads the world in the number of AIDS patients, Divorce rate, Crime. What has the west got to provide to a country like India, which has always taught everything to the world including the concept of "Zero"?
Please refer The "Manu Samhita" the oldest treatise on Rules to lead a life. There is everything.. the people must be taught to learn these facets of Hinduism and abolish th inhuman pracices. I agree. But when 60 years of reservation could not uplift the down trodden, can you suggest any better measures for that? If you advocate equal treatment, Then lets abolish reservation for all. Lets implement family planning for all. Lets provide equal edulational opportunities and job opportunities for all. No Hindu will ever have any opposition towards it. But, I know Muslims and the lower castes will oppose this - becase it has been easy to live with reservations. I am for the equality, why only among Hindu castes? It should be between all human races. And I would be happy to see marriages in your community being performed by Hindu or Christian priests. When will that happen?
RE:RE:HINDU UNITY
by Monodeep Chakraborty on Feb 12, 2007 03:32 AM Permalink
I agree with your concept of caste. That was the defination of caste created by our Vedic sages and was followed during the Early vedic period. I also agree with your comment on Gender. But these high ideals of caste system is unfortunately not followed today. Even today there exits temple in this country, where dalits are not allowed inside the temple. We need to address these issues and understand the origin of our caste system. If you ponder about reality, there are places where a dalit armed with vedic knowledge wont' be allowed to perform puja.
RE:HINDU UNITY
by Gajanan Mohite on Feb 12, 2007 06:23 AM Permalink
This is already happening in Kerala. Mata Amritanandamayi born in fisherwoman/man family has been performing pujas all over the globe , why India alone. She has made atheists like Karunanidhi and the DMK elk to praise her as a pearl. It is happening and it has started in Kerala, which is great Sankara's birthplace. It will happen , in all places.
RE:RE:HINDU UNITY
by chaitanya kumar on Feb 12, 2007 06:54 AM Permalink
Kerala BTW, has 55% Hindu population. It's the lowest after Kashmir and Nagaland, Mizoram, Meghalaya which are Muslim or Christian majority states. Hindus of Kerala need to wake up and do some hard thinking. And yes, Sankara was born there, the Advaita Vedanta guru, but that was more than thousand years ago. Hindus were ruling India at that time in Kerala. Now communists. Whither Kerala?
RE:HINDU UNITY
by bharath hindu on Feb 12, 2007 03:34 AM Permalink
Yes my friend...you are right....only our HINDU unity irrespective of castescreedlanguageregion will protect our nation and our religion in the future...
I am all for HINDU UNITY, but a unity which springs from positive aspects and not from negative aspects (like hatered for other religions or fear of others). Such a unity can stand the test of time. First of all we must eliminate caste discrimination and gender discrimanation from our religion. The day when a tribal woman (from BASTAR or MAYURBHANJ) or a dalit lady from Tamilnadu or Kerala, well versed in vedas and Upanisads will conduct a DURGA PUJA in KOLKATA or GANESH PUJA in MUMBAI, that will be the greatest day for the hindus.
"If Muslims are minority...they will demand rights "
"If Muslims are majority...they will take away rights of others "
it is happening even in UK .London...
One school in London...having 70 % Muslims students started making only Muslim Halal Meat !!! and they made it a rule ...so even a White christian has to eat Halal meat !!!!!
And how did this HALAL meat concept start ........12 yrs back there were 25 % muslim students in the same White christain schoool...they were minority then.
So as minorities they demanded preferential tretament and White britishers being polite accepted thier request of HaLAL meat....
But 12 yrs later....whemn Muslims are 70 % .....and Whites are minority....they want 2 force the White christians 2 eat waht the majority of muslims want. !!!!!!!
THe phrase quoted at teh start has been proved once again as it has in the history !!!
RE:In Muslim majority
by Surajit Dash on Feb 12, 2007 03:02 AM Permalink
Its not the fault of ISLAM. It depends on the place of Origin of the religion... harsh deserts of Arabia. When Life is not easy, one becomes tough and shrewd. Muslims have a history of spraeding themselves by attacking other countries, because they dont have enough in their own. It has a history where a son kills his brothers and arrests his father to become the ruler. Babbar, who was a tribal chief of a place thats is in the undivided USSR, finally got his Luck in Kandhar and proceeded to India not to leave again. With all our so called "tolerance", We accepted him as a monarch. They have forcibly converted so many to Islam.
RE:In Muslim majority
by yasir nabi mir on Feb 12, 2007 02:56 AM Permalink
So what is bothering u.Its plain common sense that 70% students who r muslims will have HALAL food.The rest 30% Non Muslims can have have NON HALAL food outside school if they like.Who will stop them.
RE:RE:In Muslim majority
by Surajit Dash on Feb 12, 2007 03:26 AM Permalink
Hi Yasir,
What If the Christians would have asked the minority muslim students to eat outside - from the very begining itself?
Once a Person felt pity on his Camel tied outside the tent in the cold, and so allowed it to have its head inside the tent. Morning he saw himself sleeping outside the tent !!! The Camel was snoring inside !!!
It's ironic that schools had to be shut down in order for the VHP to spread their sutpidity even further. Is that how India is to rise? Less school, more inane diatribe?
RE:Shiutting Schools To Help Stupidity
by Nikhil P on Feb 12, 2007 01:34 AM Permalink
better than your commie friends closing companies in addition to schools in order to spread their hatred.
RE:Shiutting Schools To Help Stupidity
by Observer Observer on Feb 12, 2007 09:58 AM Permalink
Its even more ironic that the punch bag of violent Hindutvadis Mulayam is doign that , he is giving into the tirade I guess
Why are these people trying to divide India again on religious rnd just to come in new they say all these, wht hv they done to teh Hindu people till now, nothing ,they themselves dont practise hinduism, My dear felow Indians lets not get divide and diverted by views of people like Singhal, lets work together lets unite to make our country feel proud let help each other and stay away from VHP, as they hv always divide burnt demolished raped destroyed human interests,
RE:Visionless Singhal
by L shankar on Feb 12, 2007 05:16 AM Permalink
Mr hhhhh zzzzz u r only right if muslims in india also treat and respect our hindu religion instead of always involving in terrorist plots and spoiling peace in our country. People like u never think about fact and protect your motherland inspite again get ruled by moghuls or britishers.
Beware moghuls ruled in india more than 14 centuries compared to 2.5 centuries from british
If u dont protect your religion again u will be in the hands of other religions
People like u handed power to mughols and britishers
RE:RE:Visionless Singhal
by soheb on Feb 12, 2007 07:03 AM Permalink
mughals ruled 14 centuries but still dint divide india and britishers ruled 2.5cent and divided india so who ruled india in a just way think using mind not VHP
RE:RE:RE:Visionless Singhal
by chaitanya kumar on Feb 12, 2007 07:19 AM Permalink
Blame the Brits for partition. Blame the jews, Bush, Americans, the Hindus. Blame the christians for crusades. Muslims blame others and like conspiracy theories. get your head out of sand. Muslims behaved like mo_rons and divided India and ethnic cleansed the minority where they are a majority. It happens all across the world. Brits were just the facilitatiors and yes they were acting in some self-interest as other nations do when they have power. But what about the Jinnah's mor_onic saying, "Hindus and Muslims are two different nations"????
RE:Visionless Singhal
by Nikhil P on Feb 12, 2007 01:37 AM Permalink
They are not dividing india. It's your hateful and biased perpective. People like you emotionally blackmail majority indians by talking about things that are not happening. Be open minded.
hindu unity is needed . not for as singhal said for ayodhya or not for sending out muslims. to have a peaceful co-existence. to do that hindus have to come out of brahmanism. we should take out caste in every aspect atleast in paper and should bring a law not have any official tail any where with name. i don't think it is possible even if so called hindus come into power. every should be able to go temple and become a preiest if knowledgable. every hindu temples should be controlled by hindu community and money coming to temple should be used for temple purposes and bringing up hospitals,schools, study of sanscrit, jobs in sanscrit, research on ayurveda and hindu economic principles. but we have seen when BJP was in power they were no better than congress or marxists.though hindu unity is needed it should not be controlled by caste believers. till today in N.india there are temple and so called brahmins and upper caste believers who doesn't know veda vyasa was fisherman born.
RE:hindu
by on Feb 12, 2007 04:02 AM Permalink
Hi Rajesh,
I strongly agree even though I am a muslim. But when will come a time when Hindu/Muslim wont be a topic to discuss anymore. I see that time is changing. So lets flow with the time try to build into our nation into a Super Power, a country with no poverty. Lets see the ground realities, we have a vast percentage of population living under the poverty lime. Lets not waste our time in these religious discussions.
