Well it is true that traditional indian values, sciences, mythology and knowledge should be kept alive. But the other side of the argument is that people always follow the those who are successful. In the present time, the western ideology, thinking, science and knowledge has proven to be useful, correct and commonly available to everyone in the world. We live in a global village, and everyone has access to everything.. it can be difficult for a person suffering pain, to get treatment from ayurveda or prayanama and completely ignore allopathic medicine.. all he wants is fast pain relief. similar argument applies to the rest.
how can a person believe in a saadhu, whose past and present are dubious, and who may even be a criminal out to dupe you?
Most of all, an uneducated and unemployed person will go to any extent, even to conversion, to get 2 square meals for his family as religion is the last thing on his famished mind..
Its a wondeful article and brings in the thought around the same. Westernisation has done one thing, it has raised the standard of living economically, but at the bottom people seem to be over doing things.
Example: Earlier during Vacation time, we used to go to Granny place enjoy the nature and good food, relax and get energised for the work ahead. But now there is packed tour to some place and at the end we are more tired than before and not being productive the next day at work.
We give more importance to see things outside than the nearer and dearer ones. The strong point of India had always been Spiritualism and its good, even by western comments, to utilise to fulll extend your string point
RE:is India HEADED the right way?
by S Ramanathan on Feb 06, 2007 10:48 AM Permalink
Is that the only thing you could read? Maybe if you read one sentence a day, you could become a master of English which BTW sucks. For starters, go easy on question marks. If you were taught that more question marks mean clearer prose, it may be time time to change your English teacher.
1. Change the name "Hindutva" to another name so that the minorities don't get sceptical about it. May be use the term "Bharatiyata" or "Indianess" (for the West loving youth) would be better. Promote what is India at its soul without resorting to a particular religion. 2. Bring the Uniform Civil Code 3. Stop all forms of reservations 4. Declare people propagating caste, religion or sect for political motives as threats to national integration.
RE:A Suggestion
by Prashant on Feb 06, 2007 08:30 AM Permalink
Vishal,
I agree with you, but that is never going to happen. Even in last century people tried to do exactly the same but some extrimist "hindu" and Muslims never allowed make that happen.
If you remove Hindutva word and dump caste system, nothing remains in their so called Hindu religion. If people get educated and realize that there is nothing called "hindu" religion, they will never go to any temple. Thus it will be a billions of rupees loss to the mandir owners as well as other supporting businesses like pujas, yadnyas, fortune tellers and most importantly their place as the most important in the social hirarchy. (The reson they destroyed buddism, which litrary means a scociety based upon human intelligence(buddhi))
Same for the "uniform civil code". Muslims mullahs will never agree with it as it hurts them. No one wants an intelligent, thinking, educated, independant society since it would hurt their "businesses".
RE:RE:A Suggestion
by MP Raju on Feb 06, 2007 10:54 AM Permalink
Prashant,
Your message is "ignorance at its best". Whenever you go to temple, do you try to figure out what is the caste of the person standing next to you or do you focus on your prayer? Also how many people do you know going to fortune tellers for caste reasons instead of materialistic gains? The word "Hindu" is used no where in the Hindu spiritual centers(Not talking about caste political parties). I don't think you have ever visited any such place. There is lot of things you have left to know about Hindu philosophy. Also, don't ever think that going to temple or following caste systems is Hinduism.
RE:RE:A Suggestion
by Nilotpal Pathak on Feb 06, 2007 12:10 PM Permalink
What Nonsense!! It is pitiable that somebody who is reading rediff articles believes that Hindutva is all about caste system. Please update yourself little more on Sanatan tradition. Do you know any instance of forced conversion or invasion by HInduism across the world? The ritualistic practices of Hinduism that you are looking down upon so profoudly are also expression of faith. Would you dare do anything of that sort to ritualistic practices of other's religion? Please be thoughtful and considerate in your comments.
Nevertheless, the article is indeed beautifully written and a conscience call of sorts.
RE:RE:A Suggestion
by Subramanian Padmanaban on Feb 06, 2007 11:19 AM Permalink
you wont be able to know the meaning of Hinduism through western education because what they will teach u is hatred towards Hinduism.
Hi Anirudha, If you say that we should not be careful preserving Indian Culture,her simplicity yet majestic Dignity ,confused yet so rythmic lifestyles and concentrate only on making India acheive a) Military strength b) Continuous economic growth c) Another green revolution to make India self sufficient in food and water ,by the time we really do this, we might end up building up the whole strong body but without soul. Dear Francois , I think you are right.We can take whatever is good from West but shouldn't be at the cost of losing anything that is Special Only for INDIA and one and the only one INDIA.
An excellent article from Mr.Francois Gautier. I fully support him. The culture of India is due to Hinduism and nothing else. Take for example, spices. All the spices (ginger, garlic, cardamom, mustard, cumin etc) are in use in Bharath since time immemorial. Any Indian, whatever religion he/she may belong to, may forget about God but cannot live without Indian spicy food. Look at the diversity in Indian languages, rituals, traditions etc. No other country can match it. Finally if you see the growth of Hinduism/Buddhism in the west n Europe without the aid of bribing missionaries, you would realize the greatness of Sanatan Dharma.
What you have written in the article is all right. However, consider this.
All the knowledge of the Vedas can not feed hungry mouths. Yoga can not quench a person's thirst and meditation will not cure cancer in normal human beings.
We have come down a different path and we must not rest until we achieve the ultimate goal of becomin a super power.
What we really need is :
a) Military strength b) Continuous economic growth c) Another green revolution to make India self sufficient in food and water
What we currently lack is sufficient military strength. We also lack honesty and do not trust our fellow Indians as much as we trust some outsiders. We need some more discipline and lawfulness. Above all, we must learn to love India and our fellow citizens.
These things will take time. They can not be brought about by the politicians. These things can only be done by great teachers (gurus in the past) in schools.
Once we are on top, we an teach the world regaring Vedas, meditation peace etc. Until then no one will take us seriously.
RE:Yes,India is headed in the right direction
by Subramanian Padmanaban on Feb 06, 2007 11:24 AM Permalink
1. Vedas cannot feed hungry mouth? yes it can u do a vedic profession. u will be fed. 2. Yoga cannot quench thirst? First u wont feel thirsty if u r a true yogi. 3. Meditation cannot cure cancer? First stop smoking and poluting the environment. You wont get cancer at all. Then practice meditation you will reach god.
a. Military strength - You saw what happenned to Iraq, Afganistan, Germany. Learn from them. We need only sufficient military strength. It is not the one and the only thing u need. b. Continuous economic growth - First pay your taxes properly or shut up. c. Another green revolution? - Dont waste your food unnecessarily. Eat only what u need. We wont need a green revolution at all. We can manage with what we have.
RE:RE:Yes,India is headed in the right direction
by Aniruddha Phatak on Feb 06, 2007 06:58 PM Permalink
Hi Subramanian,
We can not fight reality. Don't misunderstand the point I was / am trying to make.
The state of today's world is such that unless we have achieved the 3 goals, we can not influence others. On the other hand they continue to influence us.
1. How many people are applying for vedic profession? Remember our population is in excess of 1 billion. 2. How many true yogis exist in India today? Fortunately, I have met a few but not a lot. 3. Smoke and pollution are not the only causes of cancer. Also, the point I was trying to make is that we should focus our efforts on fighting cancer and searching for a cure. Meditation is very difficult for normal human beings. It takes something special.
a. military strength is a deterent. if we had focussed on military strength then no foreigners would have ruled over us for any amount of time. b. Do you want to check my tax statement since the day I started earning? Also, how is that relevant as far as economic growth is concerned? c. This is necessary for self reliance. We can deal with extra food once we start facing that problem. Today our problem is insufficient food. Let's tackle it first.
RE:Yes,India is headed in the right direction
by Jagadeesan Subbarayan on Feb 06, 2007 08:18 AM Permalink
What you are saying is true, but to bring the love and affection among fellow Indians there should be something common among them(Don't saying being Indian, as its no more relevant in today's scenario). If they share the same knowledge and cultivate the habit of holding on to their culture, then there is a chance to unite them. When the (western) education level differs then few look down upon others as though they are less literate.
If the culture and basic details of living are nutured from childhood, then we can see the hungry mouths being fed, a person's thirst being quenched and, if not cure the cancer, the person is shown he is cared for.
That Humanitarian aspect is there in our culture, but the speed with which life churns we seldom think about these.
RE:Yes,India is headed in the right direction
by uma on Feb 06, 2007 05:43 AM Permalink
May be you are right. But by the time, India attains such supremacy the core values of the country will become dormant and no one would really see the necessacity to revive them. Things should happen parallelly for the indian culture to survive the rapid progression that India is facing now (which it will continue to face for next decade or more).
RE:RE:Yes,India is headed in the right direction
by IndiaCarerFromAbroad on Feb 06, 2007 06:16 AM Permalink
Hi, That we will decide later. That is the motto for all rising asian countries Get what is necessary now, Others will come automatically or we can formulate policies based on that situation
RE:Yes,India is headed in the right direction
by biz Narayan on Feb 06, 2007 10:34 AM Permalink
Dear Anirudhha, Does the marxist gyrations of Romilla Thapper or JNU scintific arts(no-science) people feed the hungry mouths ?Your confusion will start with an 'yes' answer.
I am a firm believer that trees were growing on earth before the arrival of civillization.
RE:RE:Yes,India is headed in the right direction
by Aniruddha Phatak on Feb 06, 2007 07:04 PM Permalink
Hi Biz.
What is your point? State it clearly.
I am sure mono-cellular organisms existed on earth way before trees grew on earth. So what?
Green revolution is needed because we have over a billion mouths to feed.
Who is Romilla Thapper? What is the relevance of JNU scientific arts (whatever that is)? I have no love for either of these "entities" that you mention. You want us to stop funding irrelevant JNU departments. Cool. How do we do it? Do you have a plan?
Wow, this was a brilliant article by Francois. He has written it like a true Vedic person, His wisdom shines through in this essay. What a pity that Hinduism's very own people are destroying it. They are too blind to realize that it is the very caste system that they have come to hate and be prejudiced against is the system that has held together India through the millenia. Of course, when population explodes, exploitation increases and the caste system was no exception. But today there is blind hatred towards it, without even acknowledging how it has given us our identity and offered us channels to excel in our line of work (skilled manual work, defence, finance and trade, the arts and science..).. Well.. anyway, India will progress, and everyone will be prosperous one day - but their true wealth will be lost forever.
I know, many people will simply want to jump and shred me to pieces upon reading this message. All because they are heavily biased against the word "caste" without even knowing what its Vedic meaning is. The keyword is Vedic. Look up how beautifully the Vedas describe it. Caste implies maturity of intellect and accomplishment, not birth. However, just as a brilliant/brave/skilled/shrewed man's son is also naturally expected (and is, in most cases) to be the same, caste identification by birth was an inevitable result of societal identification.
Alas. The caste system is being destroyed. Hinduism is in its last leg. It'll be over pretty quickly. Dharma indeed will stand on only one leg in KaliYugam.
RE:Superb article!
by Prashant on Feb 06, 2007 08:19 AM Permalink
Vijay,
Which vedas you have read about caste. I do not think any vedas talk about caste system. They talk about varnas. Castes was later formed because of the ways people got married and the way manu decided thier work.
The varna system was based upon human inteligence and not the caste system. The caste system is purely based upon birth.
If you are such a believer of caste system, why brahmins are becoming engineers, doctors, businessmen?
Brahmins have always used vedas for their own benifits. Today you call Hindu a "sanatan dharma". But is it really a sanatan dhrama? why did you stop worshiping sun, agni, indra as described in vedas and started worshipping "Shiva" and "vishnu" which are not vedic gods but tantrik gods.
The only thing I can say about all you guys is you are nothing but hipocrite.
RE:RE:Superb article!
by biz Narayan on Feb 06, 2007 10:38 AM Permalink
Prashant : A bunch of liberated westernized Brahmins and oppurtinistic gurus at the start of century decided that things are tantric Vs Vedic vs Puranic Vs animistic, shiva Vs vishnava ... Since your conclusion is from reading some english literature [ Tell me how did I know ?] I can inform you that your conclusion is misleading. Take it or throw it away.
RE:Superb article!
by Vijay B on Jun 07, 2008 06:51 AM Permalink
Prashant,
Vedas talk about Sanaathana Dharma and that in itself is the caste system. People who think these two are different are ignorant, not more not less.
You're saying varna system is different from caste system. What you are saying is an elephant is different from an elephant.
Brahmins don't come with birth. They come by action. Brahmins who eat meat, drink, smoke, have no scruples, don't lead a pious life, are not Brahmins anymore.
By becoming engineers, or doctors, or businessmen, Brahmins aren't becoming non-Brahmins. Remember - who taught Arjuna, a Kshatriya, the art of war? Who were the best of the warriors whom nobody could beat? It was Brahmanas only.
Whether it is asthra vidya, shaasthra vidya, Brahmanas only wrote both and taught them both. But they never used it themselves until compelled to.
Dude - a true Brahmana is not by birth only in his first few births - it is by what dharma he has chosen for himself - by means of past karmas .
This is the eternal truth. You and I may or may not believe a fact, but that doesn't change its standing and its nature of truth.
RE:RE:Superb article!
by Vijay B on Jun 07, 2008 06:53 AM Permalink
Not to forget - a Brahmana is also called a "Dwija", one who is twice born. Nobody is born a Brahmana in his first birth itself - it is impossible, is what the Vedas say.
Brahmanathvam is solely based on the good karmas we do. Dear Prashant, by denying Brahminism, you are denying yourself a chance to accelarate your self-realization dude.
Wish you the best. But I must say, you're so polite.. :)
i object to gautier's observation on kerala's sizeable xian population. i am a christian from kerala. like our ancestors even today we continue to live by hindu cultures and traditions though we follow a different religion. in kerala hindus and christians visit each others temples and churches and attend each others festivals like it is their own. christians in kerala unlike the north-east have never shown any sort of seperatist mentality and its only a microscopic minority here in kerala that indulges in evangelism. we contribute to the nation just like everyone else and have never felt alienated or feel the need to differentiate just coz of a cross hanging on our necks.
our youth mustnot lose our traditional strengths of seeking knowledge. with the western, a good knowledge of the sciences we helped to develop will only help.
RE:good article but too much generalization
by Subramanian Padmanaban on Feb 06, 2007 11:27 AM Permalink
but how u guys managed to reduce the hindu population in kerala by 50%?
RE:RE:good article but too much generalization
by naveen on Feb 06, 2007 01:09 PM Permalink
first why dont you ask this question to hindus in kerala who are more infatuated with communism and secondly why dont you read more about kerala's past that put debilitating restrictions on kerala's lower caste hindus who make up the majority of the hindu population who fortunately or unfortunately had other alternatives like christianity and islam.
RE:RE:RE:good article but too much generalization
by Subramanian Padmanaban on Feb 06, 2007 01:55 PM Permalink
but what sort of restrictions are u talking about. dont you know that same sort of restrictions are put in place all over India. Do everybody convert for that purpose. Did negros convert to some other religion or jews converted to some other religion because of oppression. If you are a Hindu u can attain siddhi by any way. You dont have to see how other's treat you. This is the same country where various castes practiced the same Hinduism before some selfish people brought in the caste system in the middle ages. But i dont think conversion is the only way out. because u became a christian u r not going to become a pope or because u converted to islam they are not going to make u a sheikh. They will only use u for spreading their own agenda.
