Is India democracy? We will have to change the definition of democracy if India is to call a democracy!
We had maharajas and now those maharajs conveniently converted themselves into MP's. So now we have these FAMILIES Gandhi Scindia Pilot Devra Lalu Prasad Sharad Pawar Karunanidhi Karunakaran et etc etc etc etc
So, is this democracy?? Our PM says Rahul is future of India. Is this a democracy? Who is PM to decide that??
INDIA as it is now is a SHAM democracy. People have no voice whatsoever otherwise why do we have Sardar Sarovar, Nandigram, Chipco, SEZ etc etc. If people have voice in the process I don't think we will have these kind of issues. So, its not a democracy. But do we need westerner to tell us that???? Can't we figure that out on our own?
RE:Is India democracy??
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Dec 20, 2007 12:40 AM Permalink
Sharad pawar? Is his family in politics? Karunakaran too? U just want to drag politicians from every state, don't you?
RE:RE:Is India democracy??
by Ratnesh Sahay on Dec 20, 2007 07:27 AM Permalink
Pawar's family. Must find out ? His entire clan rules and the clan is very diverse from beaurocrats to veterans like Dawood,
RE:Is India democracy??
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Dec 20, 2007 12:44 AM Permalink
Uhm, Democracy means the rule of *Majority*. Doesn't mean everyone is happy - that's impossible. If the majority decide something, the minority has to put up with it - that's how it works. So, people elected by the majority take a decision in the name of the majority. (Unfortunately, India doesn't have the recall system like the US where a nonperforming or inept CM can be removed from office by people voting to recall him. As of now, it's only the MLAs who can do that, and MLAs cannot be recalled). Every democracy has friction between majority and minority opinions. I'm not defending Nandigram, btw, but just saying that disagreements are bound to happen and as long as they are handled in a civil manner, taking into account the greater common good and the good of the people impacted by this, it is all fine.
Why India is Still a Developing Country? (very nice must read ) - Ant & Grasshopper story The Ant works hard in the withering heat all summer building its house and laying up supplies for the winter. The Grasshopper thinks the Ant is a fool and laughs & dances & plays the summer away. Come winter ,the Ant is warm and well fed. The Grasshopper has no food or shelter so he dies out in the cold. Modern Version The Ant works hard in the withering heat all summer building its house and laying up supplies for the winter. The Grasshopper thinks the Ant's a fool and laughs & dances & plays the summer away. Come winter, the shivering Grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the Ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others are cold and starving. NDTV, BBC, CNN show up to provide pictures of the shivering Grasshopper next to a video of the Ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food. The World is stunned by the sharp contrast. How can this be that this poor Grasshopper is allowed to suffer so? Arundhati Roy stages a demonstration in front of the Ant's house. Medha Patkar goes on a fast along with other Grasshoppers demanding that Grasshoppers be relocated to warmer climates during winter. Amnesty International and Koffi Annan criticizes the Indian Government for not upholding the fundamental rights of the Grasshopper. The Internet is flooded with online petitions eeking support to the Grasshopper (many promising Heaven
RE:RE:why india is still a developing...developing country ?
by sathya narayanan on Dec 20, 2007 12:20 AM Permalink
continuing.... (many promising Heaven and Everlasting Peace for prompt support as against the wrath of God for non-compliance) . Opposition MPs stage a walkout. Left parties call for "Bharat Bandh" in West Bengal and Kerala demanding a Judicial Enquiry. CPM in Kerala immediately passes a law preventing Ants from working hard in the heat so as to bring about equality of poverty among Ants and Grasshoppers. Lalu Prasad allocates one free coach to Grasshoppers on all Indian Railway Trains, aptly named as the 'Grasshopper Rath '. Finally, the Judicial Committee drafts the ' Prevention of Terrorism Against Grasshoppers Act' [POTAGA], with effect from the beginning of the winter. Arjun Singh makes ' Special Reservation ' for Grasshoppers in Educational Institutions & in Government Services. The Ant is fined for failing to comply with POTAGA and having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes,it's home is confiscated by the Government and handed over to the Grasshopper in a ceremony covered by NDTV. Arundhati Roy calls it 'A Triumph of Justice'. Lalu calls it 'Socialistic Justice'. CPM calls it the ' Revolutionary Resurgence of the Downtrodden ' Koffi Annan invites the Grasshopper to address the UN General Assembly. Many years later... The Ant has since migrated to the US and set up a multi-billion dollar company in Silicon Valley. 100s of Grasshoppers still die of starvation despite reservation somewhere in India ... As a result of loosing lot of hard w
RE:why india is still a developing...developing country ?
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Dec 20, 2007 01:03 AM Permalink
I know you are trying to be a smart-ass here, but look - what if the grasshopper doesn't know how to find supplies in summer because he never got that training? The grasshopper in your allegory has that problem. You are comparing the bourgeois ant with a proletariat grasshopper (sorry for the commie lingo, and while I detest commies, in this case, had to borrow their words). The grasshopper needs support because it doesn't have a voice. The will of the ants can easily overpower the interests of the grasshopper (some ants are known to kill and eat larger insects like grasshoppers when they hunt in packs).
A poor farmer who is moved from the flood-basin of the sardar sarovar project and given land that is of sub-standard quality as compared to his old land on the banks of the narmada has every right to be disgruntled. Unfortunately for him, no-one cares until a bourgeois ant like Patkar or Roy make their case known to other ants, many of whom don't care. Sardar sarovar will feed millions, but if it starves a few thousand in the process, the government has failed.
In fact, the grasshopper works harder than the ant. It's just that the ant has been supplied with knowledge that helps it to get supplies a lot more efficiently. Any idea how hard farmers have to work to make their 1.5 square meals?
RE:why india is still a developing...developing country ?
by Nitin Takiar on Dec 20, 2007 01:23 AM Permalink
Well....why are you comparing grasshopers with Farmers only? Why not about the Quota Holders? Why not the daughters/sons of all politicians including Rahul Gandhi? Why aren;t you considering the doctors/enginners who are going to get there because they belong to some particular caste or religion? Ant's can find resources for themselves....No bloody politician or Indian corrupt system is providing them resources.
RE:why india is still a developing...developing country ?
by Kamalaksh on Dec 20, 2007 09:09 AM Permalink
Are you in any way related to Arundathi Roy or CPM or Lallu by chance?
RE:RE:why india is still a developing...developing country ?
by Singarao Meduri on Dec 20, 2007 08:24 AM Permalink
Its a simple thing Mr.Maximus. You take quotas for the final products, then you benefit in the short term. Rather you ask the government to provide training and coaching to you (just as you mentioned bout the lack of training) then you would benefit in the long term. However people with quotas have never paid considerable attention to training. People could have asked for additional training since school level extending upto graduation level. But people seem to be more happy to get admissions at all levels based on quotas and jobs based on quotas. it is just like trying to get your fruit without any hard work. And ask for reasons, some even say that they have been oppressed for years and now its their chance to benefit.
But what about your own longer term.
In such a situation you cant quote lack of training as an excuse or reason.
IT WAS SIMPLY IN YOUR OWN REACH TO ASK FOR TRAINING AND COACHING RATHER THAN FOR QUOTA ADMISSIONS AND JOBS
In AP, current CM family made more than 49,000 Cr INR in 3 yrs of Power as CM through various projects like irrigation and aother proejcts in real estate...AP CM son declared 12,000 as his tax now he started 30,000 Cr projects just in 2 yrs with funding.....TATAs took 30 yrs to reach to the level AP CM family took...u can imagine how much money looted under vote bank politics In india....
RE:In AP, current CM family made more than 49,000 Cr INR in 3 yrs
by sumangali pukku on Dec 19, 2007 11:13 PM Permalink
any proof...pls show it to us... Jai RSS.
RE:In AP, current CM family made more than 49,000 Cr INR in 3 yrs
by Indian on Dec 19, 2007 11:30 PM Permalink
Election Commission of India affidavit and last 3 yrs tax declarations to Indian govt,,,,all are available under right to information act ....just grab it to see the past
now to see the new (AS IS VS CURRENT) scenario
Go to KPHB in Hyd near Hitec city,,,,huge construction is Indu projects owned by YSR son 30 acres got from govt at 23 cr now he sold the same for 300 crore
RE:RE:In AP, current CM family made more than 49,000 Cr INR in 3 yrs
by Satyajeet Mohapatra on Dec 19, 2007 11:47 PM Permalink
Congress politicians dont leave any proof behind
RE:In AP, current CM family made more than 49,000 Cr INR in 3 yrs
by Bhupinder Singh on Dec 20, 2007 09:03 AM Permalink
it is universal truth, there are somany middlemen who siphon off ill gotten money of politician to heaven of tax evasion countries like swiss, maxican andother investment in foreign countries, whole govt bureacacy is sale and under slave by politician,,, now time have come to kick them on their ass,,,
Democracy in India? when did we have it? since we got independence? NO. I will never believe it. we were ruled by kings, then Moghals, then British and now Nehru family (Congress). They do what they want. If they want to rule a state they will go for whatever extent they can do to crush people against them. they will buy people. they can make whoever their family friend as president. they will say their son or daughter as the future of india. They don't bother about indian people. they bother about their people. they want to rule for ever and we should follow them. we don't have any say in there. this you call as democracy? oh, come on.
RE:indian democrecy
by Indian on Dec 19, 2007 10:51 PM Permalink
useless idiot like Sonia son Rahul is over behaving like father of India...thats the congress .unfortunately congress can do any thing with vote bank politics in India and sht advani n co always says rama.....we really d't have potential party in india
RE:indian democrecy
by V H on Dec 20, 2007 12:29 AM Permalink
Exactly. India under Congress rule is a non-democracy. Just look what congress did in Gujarat. They resorted to KHAM castist issues when they could not take Modi on developmental issues.
RE:indian democrecy
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Dec 20, 2007 12:52 AM Permalink
Well, look, who voted for them? You, the voter. Obviously there are people who like them - they are a reflection of yourself (I mean the Indian electorate) - corrupt, inept or whatever you want to call them, but ultimately they are there because you voted for them. That is why Modi is in power in Guj, or Laloo's wife rules Bihar. It is democracy, but democracy is only as good as the people who participate in it. It is evident that the Indian electorate cares more about hindutva/anti-hindutva and caste issues more than development and ethics. They are more bothered about "hamare sanskaar" and "hamari bhaasha" and "hamara bhagvaan" than a better future for their kids through education, more jobs via a booming economy and so on...
You get what you vote for. It is democracy all right, just not what you hoped for..
RE:indian democrecy
by murali balak on Dec 20, 2007 05:24 AM Permalink
Mr MDM You said rightly. Some people are so biased in this forum and start abusing by calling names. But they know very well that it is they who voted (or not participated in election) due to which some one came to power. These people affiliated to one party blame the other party for the corruption etc. Inspite of corruption / religious fights / caste problems we are having a better democracy than so many other countries. LETs UNITE TOGETHER TO STRENGTHEN IT. JAI HIND.
RE:indian democrecy
by Six Sigma on Dec 19, 2007 11:27 PM Permalink
Hang on...we DO have a decent democracy...corrupt but functioning...EXCEPT for the COMMUNISTS..they're like a cancer..when they settle in power - they send their rogues into every street, nukkad, slum and make sure that the electorate dont vote for anyone else..they're making a mockery of democracy..
Its not a miracle, we are not heartless people who blindly follow religion . We care for people and least bother about religion/caste/creed. Corruption is at highest level in india but its the care which we have help us out
India democracy is a miracle, because it not democracy. Some one said that in democratic country, every citizen should be able to express himself freely without any fear, and I guess that is not true in India.
India is 25% democratic, 25% communist, 25% dictatorship, and 25% socialist. So, over all it is a confused nation trying to fit every where. Our founding fathers are to be blamed for creating this confusion.
RE:RE:India democracy
by Indian on Dec 19, 2007 11:36 PM Permalink
ha ha...great....no one has a clue other than political idts what is India democracy under demo crushing
Frankly India is some thing extremely hard to understand as there is no real charector ...we talk tooo much and at the end all look for all indians mostly look for their own benefit...that's the fact about India and even u look at political leaders...they talk tooo much and at the end they will earn tons in no time and they will leave few rupees for poor man...same applies to voters...as long as they can bribed on voting day they d't mind to vote to rowdy idts...overall so much hype about Indian political stability and Indian democracy bla bla.....in very simle terms...political leaders need stability when they got in to power and they want to make sure evrey thing will be alright in their term ..naturally Political situation will be stable and next term some one else...same story for last 30 yrs and as long as Indians d't know how to avoid vote buying in real...Indian democracy and political situation can be stable more than current situation
RE:No one can understand India in real
by ashish on Dec 19, 2007 09:13 PM Permalink
well said and at the end we talk of democracy bla bla and wat bout the dirty spittin peein littering breaking trafiic laws no respect for each other on the roads courruption and pollution ---
RE:No one can understand India in real
by Indian on Dec 19, 2007 09:19 PM Permalink
Exactly....u r right...that's natural nature of Indians in real...what so ever....we all look for own in real either it c'd be traffic, could be voting . c'd be political leader or some thing else....in reality....can we say at least 80% of our current political... so called leaders is fit for any thing other than killing 2 in a day and drinking 2 full bottles...unfortunately that's the India system at the end of the day...if some useles guy can kill few and can show rowday charector he can be a big political person in one day...just look at AP CM and his back ground...he has worst charector and worst family faction background...but he is king in AP now as he can kill any body in no time in AP...same applies to many CMs in india...we all say ...wow we are great idts at the end.
RE:No one can understand India in real
by Indian on Dec 19, 2007 09:45 PM Permalink
Asish...ur honest Indian and instead of saying so much bla bla about India and Indians u said what is right and in real...need u r kind of Indians in India....keep it up man
RE:No one can understand India in real
by ashish on Dec 19, 2007 10:15 PM Permalink
thanks indian trust me id be happy to see a grt India bro but all these guys say go east go west india is best and yet if some one spits ,leaks litters every one turns a blind eye and then they tell me u dont love india and then turn around and throw garbage on the roads ,ha
Though the progress is noticeable from outside, there are serious problems at lower levels due to poverty,low literacy levlels, lack of good primary education for all,affordable housing for poor, improvement in infrastructure, sanitation,health etc,. It needs very focussed, sincere politcal and official commitment. A gigantic task indeed! But wth acitve involvement of people, it may become achievable.
RE:India's Democracy
by Indian on Dec 19, 2007 10:57 PM Permalink
in AP, current CM family made more than 49,000 Cr INR in 3 yrs of Power as CM through various projects like irrigation and aother proejcts in real estate...AP CM son declared 12,000 as his tax now he started 30,000 Cr projects just in 2 yrs with funding.....TATAs took 30 yrs to reach to the level AP CM family took...u can imagine how much money looted under vote bank politics In india....
While Dr. Diamond's article may have stirred up some emotions, I think it's an objective assessment of the situation in India today. We are unable to overcome our caste and religious differences to cooperate on important issues such as fighting corruption, building a strong legal system, creating high quality public schools etc. When people feel they are being denied the right to education and health, they're going to turn around and say- what's the use of democracy and those of us who are in a position to do something will be so busy fighting over religion, we won't have an answer.
