The problem with conversion is the arrogance of those who think they have a right to convert others and particularly so when they refer to UN declarations as a support. Claiming the right to seek out the other for conversion is nothing else but turning the other into an object for my design. It is meeting the other as an object, not interested in the encounter and where it might take us.
RE:Problem with conversion
by Avinash on Dec 21, 2007 07:18 PM Permalink
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Read the life story of people who convert...............why to stop there? Why can't we listen to those who attended the faith healing camps of Benny Hinn.............stage managed by his cohorts??????????????? They will narrate even bizzare stories!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RE:Problem with conversion
by Cape Comorin on Dec 22, 2007 11:06 AM Permalink
Christianity does not depend on individuals like Benny Hinn et al. It only depends on God, the Almighty.
RE:Problem with conversion
by Cape Comorin on Dec 21, 2007 10:24 AM Permalink
The problem with you is that you relate religion with politics. This is why you are afraid of conversion. If you experience the spritual bliss given by christianity you will not protest conversion. Read the life story of people who convert. There are many criminals who repented their crimes because of conversion. Even many hindu priests/sanyasins and islamic priests have converted to christianity. Is is possible if christianity does not provide spritual upliftment? Conversion is nothing but liberation from the darkness.
RE:Problem with conversion
by Mohd Younus on Jan 08, 2008 04:36 PM Permalink
Mr. Cape Comorin, can u name a few islamic priests who converted to christianity..may be some gullible muslim with help of money..the way u r doing with dalits and weaker sections of other society..I urge u to go thru sites like islamworldDOTnet, why-christians-convert-to-islamDOTcom, irfDOTnet, etc; to clear ur misconceptions. In fact i can list many christian scholars and rich christians who reverted to islam, like Yusuf Green, Bilal Philips, Kat Stevens, Mohammad Ali, etc; and these people were not offered any gifts from muslim community. In fact, do a careful study of bible without any prejudices and u will find that it leads to Quran. Bible clearly prophesizes abt Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), and if u r really concerned abt ur salvation, inshallah u will turn to Islam as the only religion. I urge u to read ur Bible completely , not just what sunday classes in church preaches, and u will turn to Islam.
RE:Problem with conversion
by Avinash on Dec 21, 2007 07:16 PM Permalink
Cape Comorin, the above message is the last but one para of this article under discussion. I had purposefully copied and pasted the same to understand whether those posting messages here have actually read the article under discussion!!!!!!!!!!!! The message posed by me was the view of the person who was interviewed viz. Mr.Hans Ucko!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: RE:Problem with conversion
by Born Hindu on Feb 10, 2009 01:47 AM Permalink
Cape, have had many evangelists come home and tell us how jesus can save us. if you evangelists keep on saying this and keep on testing patience of people from other religions,
The Churches in Kerala are against the duly elected Government for bringing in some accountability in the education sector (mainly controlled by various denominations of Chruches, Nair Service Society, Sree Narayana Dharma Paripalana Yoga of Ezhavas and Muslim Education Society. Wonder of wonder, all these organisations - at logger heads with each other in all other matters - are united in opposing the Left Front Government. CPI (M) State Secretary Mr. Pinarayi Vijayan has already issued an ultimatum to the Chruches to behave themselves or be ready to meet the consequences.
The main cause of downfall of the first democratically elected Communist Governemnt in the wrold (headed by the late Shri EMS) was educational reforms brought by Prof. Joseph Mudassery and oppostion of vested interests like the Chruches to the same!!!!!!!!!!
RE:Churches and development
by Sahadevan KK on Dec 27, 2007 06:22 PM Permalink
Communal Violence in Orissa: A Laboratory of Hindu Terrorism
Sangh Parivar goons continuing their naked dance with their victory in Gujarat.
1. Sangh Parivar rioters attack churches in several towns in Kondhmal district of Orissa on Christmas celebrations. Hindu extremists are increasingly targeting middle class churches in cosmopolitan centers.
2. Sangh Parivar not believe in Democracy. It's cadres attacked on a big rally of CPI(M) at Jind, Haryana on 26.12.2007. BJP is a communal party, which is dividing people on the basis of religion and caste for gaining political power.
3. Sangh Parivar earlier attacked Don Bosco students including adivasi, priests and a sister attacked at Vadodara on 19.12.2007.
Hindu Terrorists are being attacking on Christians Orissa Villages. Their leaders must recognise what is going on in Pakistan territory today. Mushraff made viruses of terrorism and spread all over Pakistan. They themselves kill a lot of innocent people even in Masjid and Mushraff is also in safe place.
The European churches pump in billions of dollars into India (mainly thru illegal route) for carrying out conversion and other subversive activities in India. The Churches were the main opponents of a law brought by the Government of India to control foreign contributions. If all activities of the Chruches (including conversion) are above board, why are they afraid to account for the foreign contributions received by them? What are they trying to hide?
RE:@ Cape Comorin
by Cape Comorin on Dec 20, 2007 11:13 AM Permalink
The org.s like VHP are getting more foreign currency that missionary orgs. Foreign contributions are nothing when compared to Indian contribution. I am also contributing for the missionary service. Not only me almost all the christians are supporting missionaries to their level best. This is our obligation. Even if foreign funds stopped, I bet missionary service never come to a halt. Around 99% of the missioaries are Indians. We have nothing to hide. But you are afraid of converstion because you relate religion with politics. We relate religion with spritual upliftment. Even after lot of persecution by RSS/VHP&Co. missionary service is going on succesfully. We do not depend on money but only depend on Jesus Christ. That gives us moral strength. Jesus said to His disciples, "I am sending you out like lambs among wolves"
RE:@ Cape Comorin
by Avinash on Dec 20, 2007 10:42 PM Permalink
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I am sending you out like lambs among wolves....................it is the other way round. Wolves among the lambs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for telling the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RE:@ Cape Comorin
by Cape Comorin on Dec 21, 2007 10:31 AM Permalink
It is quite obvious that educational insts. run by christians have good quality and that is why even hindus and muslims are eager to admit their children in those inst.s. Government's intervention will certainly curb their freedom in running the insts. Ironically, you admitted that not only church but also NSS and other hindu org.s have protested govt. intervention. Missionaries are lambs and fanatic hindus are wolves. This is the fact. You deny this fact because of your spritual blindness. Missionaries sacrifice their lives to preach gospel. There are many incidents where christian missionries are attacked by hindutva forces. Still missionary services are going on. Not only hindus, even muslims and sikhs also are embracing christianity. No power on earth can stop the growth of christianity. Because christianity depends on God. The power of humans are none before God, the Almighty.
RE:RE:@ Cape Comorin
by Avinash on Dec 21, 2007 07:13 PM Permalink
Cape Comorin, you see everything thru your narrow agenda of spreading christianity whereas I don't support any religious organisation. That is the basic difference between you and me. As for quality of education, there may be some Schools or other edcational institutes run by the missionaries of good quality but not all of them are of superior quality. Btw I have studied in Govt school and Govt Tech Institute and I don't think I am in any way inferior to a person studied in any Missionary run educational institute!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>>>>>>>>>>issionaries sacrifice their lives to preach gospel..............who wants thier sacrifice?????????????? I am least bothered about the sacrifice of a bunch of fools who does not have anything better to do for humnity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RE:@ Cape Comorin
by Cape Comorin on Dec 22, 2007 11:25 AM Permalink
Christianity did not spread much in Goa because it was not preached in a christian way. Gospel should not be imposed forcefully rather it should be preached and it should be left to the individual to accept or reject. Christianity is fast growing in India that is why RSS/VHP etc are afraid resulting in persecution. And 2.34% is only an official figure that does not reflect the reality. Spreading christianity is not a narrow agenda but a divine service. There is no pride if you do not support any org. Everybody knows the quality of christian schools. I do not want to discuss about it. "Who wants his sacrifice" - It is our Lord, Jesus Christ for the goodness of the mankind. And spreading christianity and serving poor people which all the missionaries are doing is the greatest service to the humanity.
RE:@ Cape Comorin
by Avinash on Dec 21, 2007 07:08 PM Permalink
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>No power on earth can stop the growth of christianity..............despite the persecution of Spanish Inqisionists in Goa is still not a Christian majority state. Also the European conolial masters tried their level best to convert the natives of India. Still the head count is about 2.34% only (as per last Census). Whom are you trying to fool??????????????
RE:@ Cape Comorin
by Avinash on Dec 20, 2007 10:28 PM Permalink
You are skillfully skirting the issue of oppostion of the Chruches to a law proposed by the Govt of India. Why are they opposing the same???????????????????????
you are right shiva. this whole universe was created by some supreme power whom we can not see with these eyes. but sometimes to teach us few things that supreme power has to take human birth. we all get our birth as per our samsakaras and these samsakaras only decid where we should get birth. actually spirituality is totally different from religion. religion divides people. i have full respect for jesus but he himself was not christian. he never asked his followers to start new religion called christian. he was a great sould who realized God and wanted the same for his followers also. but unfortunately his followers could not understand the the truth and started a new religion itself.
the problem is that we had so many saints but nobody could really leave even one follower like him. which just created new religions. be it gautam budhdha, guru nanak sahib. we all know that gautam budhdha, jesus all saints used to meditate only. none of them intruduced any religion running in their name. its wrong to call hindu a religion. its a way of life. it has so many varites to pray God that one religion can not have. thank we do not have religion in name of rama, krishna, kabir, vivekanand. if anyone know even little about spirituality, he must know God is only one supreme power and how come he can different for different people. when one convert from one religion to another, he divides the God. so conversions are never for spirituality. it is only for polical gains or econimic g
RE:conversions are not for spirituality
by shiva on Dec 20, 2007 09:53 AM Permalink
Many followers are easily gullible and manipulated by supposed leaders. Let us all be less dogmatic and ritualistic and save that time to help others who are suffering for no fault of theirs sans borders. To get to help others physically is the hard part, the easy one is regurgigate some supposed happenings of past. The need of the hour is succcour with our bare hands and time. How many religious zealots are willing to put action above mere words?
All these Gods created by us all are around for few thousand years, but humans miliion years, some animals and creatures many million years. So was God created later than us? Yes, in our fertile imagination. The fact of the matter is we cannot decifer creation. Period.
The children all over the world were spell bound by Harry Potter. Some of us are also similarly excited but are similarly limited by our capacity for imagination. Nobody has confirmed the existence of heaven or hell or seen God. All miracles are shot down by rationalists.
So let us all live & let live than be exploited. The Bali bombers were sold on the idea that 72 virgins were awaiting them for killing others. Similar hideous incentives are given over thousands of years. Let us first look after ourselves by leading a humble life than be desperate to find God. Unless super computers can solve these puzzles, the ordinary man is running short of time even to look after himself, let alone his wife, children and maybe the elders.
RE:conversions are not for spirituality
by shiva on Dec 20, 2007 09:53 AM Permalink
Many followers are easily gullible and manipulated by supposed leaders. Let us all be less dogmatic and ritualistic and save that time to help others who are suffering for no fault of theirs sans borders. To get to help others physically is the hard part, the easy one is regurgigate some supposed happenings of past. The need of the hour is succcour with our bare hands and time. How many religious zealots are willing to put action above mere words?
All these Gods created by us all are around for few thousand years, but humans miliion years, some animals and creatures many million years. So was God created later than us? Yes, in our fertile imagination. The fact of the matter is we cannot decifer creation. Period.
The children all over the world were spell bound by Harry Potter. Some of us are also similarly excited but are similarly limited by our capacity for imagination. Nobody has confirmed the existence of heaven or hell or seen God. All miracles are shot down by rationalists.
So let us all live & let live than be exploited. The Bali bombers were sold on the idea that 72 virgins were awaiting them for killing others. Similar hideous incentives are given over thousands of years. Let us first look after ourselves by leading a humble life than be desperate to find God. Unless super computers can solve these puzzles, the ordinary man is running short of time even to look after himself, let alone his wife, children and maybe the elders.
There should be a supreme being who created all this outfit with lots of life. Then men came and created many Gods and some think their created Gods will come and do their bidding, kill the Gods created by others.
There is a strong thinking that religion is the root problem of all evil in this world. It has been dividing people down the centuries. It has killed more people than the wars started for political reasons.
The poison released by the mention of religion is indeed more dangerous than the pollution by petro products. My God is superior to yours can go on forever. The fact of the matter is nobody has seen God and even Mother Theresa doubted the existence. There are so many better things to achieve in life than getting hot under the collars at the mention of religion. Many become mental cases and react irrationally. I have been exposed to all religions and once you keep the fanatics at bay, all are same. Once you are born to a religion, better to stick with it or rather for others to mind their business. There is no need for any prosylizing as bees are attracted to honey anyway. It is plain stupid to think that only one God can give you access to heaven. I always have a good laugh with those having a sense of humour. One religious muslim friend admitted that he does not mind landing up in hell if it is filled up with people with a zest for happy life.
We do not know where we were before birth and we are just not even blips and do not matter at all.
RE:We are our worst enemies
by Avinash on Dec 19, 2007 09:19 AM Permalink
Mr. Shiva, it is not only strong thinking that religion is the root problems of all evils, it actually is! Nearly two-thirds of all wars fought by mankind were in the name of religions and non-existent gods.
It is also a fallacy to believe that those who are devout followers of one religion or the other are not prone to commit crimes. A study conducted in the Jails of Sri Lanka some time back revealed that less than one third of one percent (1/3%) convicts were atheists and the rest for adherent followers of various religion (including the much touted peaceful religions like Christianity and Buddhism). So we can very well understand the futility of the so-called morals of religions!!!
RE:We are our worst enemies
by Cape Comorin on Dec 19, 2007 09:58 AM Permalink
Without any studies I can surely say that more than 90% of the hindus never read Gita and they do not know anything about hinduism. I have argued with many hindus, most of them well educated, who know christianity more than hinduism.
RE:RE:We are our worst enemies
by shiva on Dec 19, 2007 07:20 PM Permalink
Cape Comorin,
If I want I can defend any religion or ridicule it. What is the purpose other than creating enmity amongst the people? There are good & bad in all religions and also with nonbelievers. One of them was a joy to be with till he became a religious zealot. Now he sees others, first to which religion they belong to.
Let us knock off not unduly obsessed with religion. It brings forth chemical reactions in many leading to murderous acts.
One need not be a Hindu to know Gita well. The same goes for other religions. One need not at all be religious to be good. You can be an atheist and be of service without borders.
Don't get worked up defending unseen Gods. Let us not limit ourselves and thereby enjoy the diversity and see everyone as a human being first. Let us respect all including the rights of fellow creatures who should also have been created by one God, whatever name he goes by.
RE:We are our worst enemies
by Avinash on Dec 20, 2007 10:41 AM Permalink
Cape Comorin, hindus are not dependent on one book written thousands of years back like the followers of Semitic religions who swear by "one book" Bhagavad Gita is not a holy-hook like The Bible or The Koran. It was only the advice given by Lord Krishna to Arjuna exhorting him to carry out his duties. No sane hindu will tell you that it is revaled by some god and is therefore irrefutable. Hinduism is dynamic enough to change with the times and is not as dogmatic as other religions (especially Christianity or Islam)
RE:We are our worst enemies
by Cape Comorin on Dec 20, 2007 11:03 AM Permalink
Do not tell lies buddy. How many hindus have actually seen Gita or any hindu books for that matter? Majority, I mean at least 90% of hindus never read their religious texts and their knowledge on hinduism is nearly zero. Hinduism does not change to be relevant to the modern world. There were attempts by Arya Samaj, Brahma Kumaris,etc but they could not succeed.
RE:We are our worst enemies
by Avinash on Dec 21, 2007 07:37 PM Permalink
Ignorace is Bliss!!!!!!!!!!! The less we read those books, the less our mind get polluted. All religious books (irrespective of the religion) only cause mental pollution. Keep away just one generation from the so-called holy books and worships and the next generation will not bother about god/gods or religion/s!!!!!!!!! Or atleast don't teach anything about gods and religions till the age of 25 and see whether the person will laer belieive in such abusrdities!!!!!!!!!!
The avowed policies of the Missionaries anywhere in the world were to inculcate in the converts a spirit of alienation towards their ancestral society,culture and religion as well as their native land - Dr. A.T. Kovoor, World Renowned Rationalist
RE:Converts
by Bhakar Chatopadyaya on Jan 09, 2008 06:54 AM Permalink
Abraham kovoor challenged satya sai baba of puttaparutti to show all his miracles in front of him but sai baba chickened out . why?
RE:Converts
by Cape Comorin on Dec 19, 2007 09:55 AM Permalink
It is better to get rid of the ancestral culture and religion that are barbaric and not relevant to the modern civilized world. Even those who claim to follow the ancient religion are actually following the modern culture.
RE:Converts
by galilio on Dec 19, 2007 05:27 PM Permalink
christianity is dying religion in west/usa while in india money/job offers to lure poor hindus and once they realise,the get back to old roots. in A P states,new converts demand rs 100 per person for going to church on every sunday. if money not given, they do not go.conversion will vanish once funds to missionaries stopped.
RE:RE:Converts
by Bhakar Chatopadyaya on Jan 09, 2008 06:55 AM Permalink
Because hinduism is dying in india and the poor are taking up communism or islam or christianity the upper caste hindus are mad at others.
Pl go and find out whether you (if you are already married, for any of your relative or friend) can get a Syrian Christian girl from Kerala and then lecture us on equality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RE:@Cape comorin
by Avinash on Dec 20, 2007 10:45 AM Permalink
Cape comorin, you are waxing eloquent on all other matters. Don't you have an answer/comment to this message???????????????
RE:@Cape comorin
by Cape Comorin on Dec 20, 2007 10:59 AM Permalink
FYI even some christians married brahmins then why not syrian christians? One of my relatives got married syrian christian woman now living in Trivandrum.
RE:@Cape comorin
by Avinash on Dec 20, 2007 10:31 PM Permalink
Is this reply an after thought? You have been so agressive on replying to others messages but kept quite on this. Mr. comorin, we are not fools to swallor whatever you write. Btw your relative's marriage was an arranged one or love marriage? No syrian Christian parents will give their daughter to another sect of Christianity with their blessings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RE:@Cape comorin
by Cape Comorin on Dec 21, 2007 10:42 AM Permalink
It was an arranged one. I do not deny that casteism does not exist among christianity. But cateism has not sanctioned in christianity while it is sanctioned in hinduism: read your vedas and manusmiriti you will understand. Even punishments were based on caste. Brahmins who were considered learned in olden days were given less punishment than other castes. Why? Actually either punishment should be equal for all or severe punishment should be given to learned when commited crimes. But exactly opposite happened. This was because of that your religious texts were written or modified by brahmins to their advantage. You cannot see this injustice in christianity where all are equal before God. Even if a priest commits mistake he will be given severe punishment by God. Moreover discrimination and harassment based on caste is very very rare among christians. As far as I know people of all the castes pray together in the church. I have experienced that sort of brotherhood in the church. Anyone after graduating in theology can become priest. I have seen many priests who are dalits. And even a socalled high-caste has to give due respect to them. There are so many intercaste marriages nowadays happening among christians.
RE:@Cape comorin
by Avinash on Dec 21, 2007 07:33 PM Permalink
Cape Comorin, to cut a long story short............I would just say that there are separate grave yards for the dalits converted to Christianity...........what more glaring discrimination could be there????????????
RE:@Cape comorin
by Vijay Vijay on Dec 27, 2007 04:43 PM Permalink
It is wrong to suggest that Brahmins were "less punished" - actually it is the opposite that is written in Manusmriti. It says that the punishment for any particular time should be twice for the 3rd class (compared to the 4th class), thrice for the 2nd class and 4 TIMES for the Brahmins!!! So, please correct yourself and don't spread misinformation.
RE:CONVERSION OF TASTES !!!
by Cape Comorin on Dec 18, 2007 01:49 PM Permalink
Why not? Coversion means change. The change may be in your food habit, dressing style, faith, thinking,etc.
RE:CONVERSION OF TASTES !!!
by Avinash on Dec 18, 2007 08:28 PM Permalink
Cape Comorin, have you seen the converted fisher-folks of Kerala (called Latin Catholics)? Can you differentiate them and the fisher-folks belonging to other religions? Why are you continuing the misinformation compaign?
RE:CONVERSION OF TASTES !!!
by Cape Comorin on Dec 19, 2007 09:53 AM Permalink
Conversion is a divine service. Only those who experience the spritual bliss could understand the beauty of christianity. There are certainly differences between christians and nonchritians. By looking at them with your spritually blinded eye in a distant place you cannot understand the difference. Everyday thousands of muslims and hindus are embracing christianity. Only a few adamant people like you are going to follow the outdated religion.
RE:RE:CONVERSION OF TASTES !!!
by Avinash on Dec 20, 2007 10:49 AM Permalink
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Only a few adamant people like you are going to follow the outdated religion..........this is the way of your thinking and accuse others!!!!!!!!!!!! What an enlightenment and preaching of the teachings of Jesus Christ!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hats off to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RE:CONVERSION OF TASTES !!!
by Avinash on Dec 20, 2007 10:47 PM Permalink
All religions, especially Christianity, have become outdated. What are you expecting by worshipping a corpse hanging from a cross??????????? Salvation????????????????? Entry ticket to the heaven?????????????????
RE:CONVERSION OF TASTES !!!
by Cape Comorin on Dec 20, 2007 10:56 AM Permalink
This is not abuse. This is the truth. Hinduism is nothing but offshoot of paganism which was already gone in other countries. Still I insist that hinduism has no relevance today.
RE:CONVERSION OF TASTES !!!
by Avinash on Dec 21, 2007 07:31 PM Permalink
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Christianity is not an outdated religion. It is growing day by day. Millions of people thougout the world embrace it every year. If you have any doubt google and find out..................muslims also claim that their religion is the fastest growing one................and we have seen what their religion has done to the followers as well as to the civilized world as a whole!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why can't you come out of the religious dogma?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hinduism is nothing but offshoot of paganism which was already gone in other countries. Still I insist that hinduism has no relevance today......................there is/was nothing called pagnism...........the primitive tribes worshipped nature.......were called animists...............the Christians and Chruches in particular called them "pagans" in derogatory terms..............you insist that hinduism has no relevance today. ..............smilarly I can also insist that the dirtiest religion on planet earth is Christianity.......where is the tolerance and mutual respect................the supposed love of Jesus Christ you are preaching?????????????
RE:CONVERSION OF TASTES !!!
by Cape Comorin on Dec 21, 2007 10:48 AM Permalink
Slowly your messges are degrading. Is it because of your frustration that you run out of points? Or the truth hurts you? Anyway, Jesus resurrected. That is why we worship Him. It is upto you to believe or not. He can give you salvation if you wish. But if you are adamant no one can help you. Yes I strongly believe the mercy of Jesus is entry ticket to heaven. Christianity is not an outdated religion. It is growing day by day. Millions of people thougout the world embrace it every year. If you have any doubt google and find out.
RE:CONVERSION OF TASTES !!!
by Avinash on Dec 20, 2007 10:47 AM Permalink
About a thousand patients had died at Devine retreat centre at Muringoor in Kerala. Are you talking of the spirituality of those running that clinic???????????????????
RE:CONVERSION OF TASTES !!!
by Avinash on Dec 18, 2007 05:38 PM Permalink
Conversion to Christianity is a multi-billion dollar business. Nothing more than that!!
