RE:What is our Govt doing?
by Wahaj Ahmed Faridy on Dec 11, 2007 05:06 PM Permalink
Let us talk history, as you wish...
To protect yourselves from Muslim Rulers, you once allied with West (Bitishers)...and remember what you got...plunderers who looted country hollow. Tax were raised from Rs 20000/- a district under Mughals to 26 Lakhs a district.
Wealth was syphoned out 24x7 for full 150 years. Over a million Indians had to die, and country dismembered, to throw Britishers out That is the price you paid for allying with Britishers against Muslim Rulers.
Probably you remember History too well, that is why you are now Allying with same West (Read US) in global alliance against Islam.
RE:What is our Govt doing?
by Sami on Dec 11, 2007 05:14 PM Permalink
Forgot the history? no we will forget only if know the history. when we dont know the history what is there ot forget?
RE:What is our Govt doing?
by Avinash on Dec 11, 2007 03:14 PM Permalink
Mr.Ram Chauthariya, our Country is capable of meeting any eventuality. Even the threat of moving 7th Fleet into Bay of Bengal by USA during the 1971 war has not deterred us. Then what to speak of a small neighbouring country?
RE:Babur
by Vijay urf Teesmaar Khan on Dec 11, 2007 03:38 PM Permalink
This distinction goes to Aurangjeb. But Babur was is ancester. So he is equally so.
RE:Babur
by Ram Chauthariya on Dec 11, 2007 03:44 PM Permalink
One of Babur's ancestor massacred 1,00,000 Hindus in one night in Dec 1398 at Delhi Fort according to Wikipedia because he did not like idolators
RE:Babur
by Vijay urf Teesmaar Khan on Dec 11, 2007 03:54 PM Permalink
I think correct name is Taimoor Lung. He was ancester of babur from his Father's side. Babur also had Changej Khan as his ansecter from his mother's side. He had "qualities" of both.
Pak mistakenly identified the name Prithvi with Prithviraj Chouhan without knowing that Prithvi is primarily named after an element that is earth.
As a symbolic counter Prithvis counter version was named as Babar and Ghazni etc. But the sad part is both Babars and Ghaznis rampage occured against the natives of current Pakistan and their great great great..... grand mothers were raped and their great great great....... grand fathers were butchered! It is an irony that we name barbarians as our icons!
Anyway, even the Indians also name their weapons as per Hindu mythological characters! For Eg: Indian Tank is called Arjun!
An Indian missile can be of any name but if the name of an element is given atleast as a symbolic gesture atleast one of them could have been named with an Urdu, which is an Indian language than Pakistani, name instead of all sanskrit names!
There is nothing really in a name, but it displays a percieved tilt and that does not go unnoticed!
India as a pluralistic society could have had all its faiths names for its weapons, projects etc. It will not lose anything but only go up in the eyes of the world far more higher!
RE:WRONG PERCEPTION!
by Sami on Dec 11, 2007 02:52 PM Permalink
Kabeer, in india some beef products are named kabeer Kabeer das and beef kabeer has no connection. it is not that the beef product was named after kabeer das . it better to write sensibly.
Arjun was never referred to Hindu. does mahabharata say any where Arjun is a hindu? Arjun and hindu do not have any connection.
you know better that the Hindu name is given by mulim rulers. Still you keep the same name.
RE:RE:WRONG PERCEPTION!
by Avinash on Dec 11, 2007 03:03 PM Permalink
It is in India only the Muslims adopt arabic names and Christians adopt names of Bible charectors. People of China, Japan, Korea, etc use the names in the respective languages irrespective of their religion! Those who converted the natives of India into other religions somehow managed to create an inferiority complex in the minds of the converts and in the process they have lost even self-respect and any proud in our ancestoral culture, which has nothing to do with religion!
RE:WRONG PERCEPTION!
by Kabeer on Dec 11, 2007 03:42 PM Permalink
Naturally all neoconverts are more aggressive in their perception of their newly acquired faith for two reasons: If converted out of hatred to their previous faith naturally that hatred turns into a passion to the new adopted faith.
If converted out of conviction then it is a natural blossoming passionate love towards the new faith.
However, I lived in Pakistan, in Bangladesh, in the Middle East, in East Europe but I have noticed among all muslims the marks of abrasion are very prominent among Indian muslims. Peole in Saudi also perform Namaz as many perhaps more than Indians but I have not seen any abrasive marks on their foreheads.
Perhpas when you are a minority, your sense of consciousness increases manifold and symbols take precedence over spirit!
I am sure most of the people who are in hateposts here dont know 0.005% of their own faith but still talk about other faiths!
One of the persons say Arjun is not Hindu! Strangely Arjuns brother-in-law Lord Krishna is a Hindu God!
RE:WRONG PERCEPTION!
by Avinash on Dec 11, 2007 03:50 PM Permalink
Mr.Kabeer, there was no religion called Hinduism at the time of writing the Epic Mahabharata. Every Indian (irrespetive of religion) should be proud of our cultural heritage. Some how, the Muslims and Christians in India feels that they become small if they admit that our cultural heritage worth being proud of. When the other continents were still in stone, there was civilized life in the Indian sub-continent.
RE:WRONG PERCEPTION!
by abhijeet kulkarni on Dec 11, 2007 04:09 PM Permalink
Please don't feel u r minority.First feel that we r INDIAN,nothing else.We all Indians have equal rights,freedom(this is in situation when Indian people driven government comes in picture nor the politician driven government).n regarding the Names of Missiles,it shd be viewed as India has developed the weapon ( not any person)and will be used for self -security.Names of missile can be India 1A,India 1B.......Chakde India
RE:WRONG PERCEPTION!
by Sami on Dec 11, 2007 04:51 PM Permalink
Kabeer, you are talking irrelevant things. the abrasice mark on the forehead is due to the place where they do sajda. In saudi most of the mosques carpeted. In India it will be mat or tiled floor. Indian mosques mostly do not have carpets or soft floor. Did ever lord krishna claimed that he is god of hindus?
Hindu is the name given by muslims. still you keep that name only. better find out what religion lord krishna was talking. name your religion the same name and call lord krishna your god
RE:WRONG PERCEPTION!
by Avinash on Dec 11, 2007 02:39 PM Permalink
Mr.Kabeer, these are weapons of mass-destruction and does not make an iota of difference whether the names of are of Sanskrit, Urdu or any other language. The missiles cannot understand the language of its targets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
a failed state. run by terrorists. no food or basic amneties for its people. education limited to msddrasas. and what are theydoing. test firing missiles. ironic.
RE:hmmm
by selah on Dec 11, 2007 02:24 PM Permalink
Dear what is your problm why you are behind maddrass. it is a centre which preach only love and peace. you cant stop it by shouting so much
RE:hmmm
by Avinash on Dec 11, 2007 02:42 PM Permalink
Mr.selah, since when has your religion preaching peace? Mohammed did not spare even the sick and infirm!!!!!! Then what to talk of people like you? And no amount of Madrassa education will help the young generation of your community to earn a decent livlihood. Those who are able to fulfill their requirements rarely get attracted to terrorism (or any kind and of any religious or political leaning)
RE:hmmm
by indian atheist on Dec 11, 2007 02:47 PM Permalink
Well whats the point in pointing fingers. Dont you still see religions as the thing of past? Get over the hang over of religions and see the bigger picture. Why so much hate for history when there can be a better future by doing away with religions once and for all ?
RE:hmmm
by Avinash on Dec 11, 2007 02:51 PM Permalink
Mr. Ram Chauthariya, what are you doing to eradicate the same? Sitting in the comfort of air-conditioned room and writing meaningless comments on this discussion Board??????????
RE:RE:hmmm
by Ram Chauthariya on Dec 11, 2007 03:02 PM Permalink
Here comes Indian pride and nationalism is play. It just keeps you from accepting reality. Walk outside in any Indian city and you will the living conditions. Read papers. India has more than 300 million illiterates. We are worse than Africa in many human development indexes.
RE:RE:hmmm
by indian atheist on Dec 11, 2007 02:49 PM Permalink
No India has better human development index than Pakistan but still its 128th. Its a shame because we are the third largest economy. Our comparison is not with Pak its with China. And we are doing pretty bad at that.
Hindu society has not done any thing to bring converted muslims back to Hinduism. Earlier Swami Shraddhanand was doing so. But he was killed by a muslim killer for this work of his. After that no efforts have been done. We should start these efforts again. This will end all the conflicts between Hindus and Muslims.
RE:Bring them back
by selah on Dec 11, 2007 01:59 PM Permalink
Most welcome. but you should debate in decent way. no abuse to others faith,prophet or books.
RE:Bring them back
by Vijay urf Teesmaar Khan on Dec 11, 2007 02:02 PM Permalink
Unless we show them the shortcomings in their present faith, it is difficult to convince them to come within Hindutva.
RE:Bring them back
by Vijay urf Teesmaar Khan on Dec 11, 2007 02:09 PM Permalink
Yes. Both works are to be done together. Show them their shortcomings and our own superiority. Then let them compare themselves and select the right path.
RE:Bring them back
by Vijay urf Teesmaar Khan on Dec 11, 2007 02:48 PM Permalink
I differ on this matter with you. Patriotism has a close relationship with religion and sect. But there are exceptions too. Just being a Hindu does not mean being a patriot Indian and being a non-hindu also does not mean being anti-india. Actually we have to judge ourselves by our deeds. If we support a terrorist only because it belongs to our faith, is not patriotism at all. The general view is that most of the muslims think not in terms of the country but in terms of their faith and most of Hindus think in terms of the cuntry. You see, no Indian supported criminals like Babloo srivastava or Natwarlal or Charles Shobraj or Satwant singh etc etc. But it is only in muslim community that there are many supporters of Afzal and Madani. Why?
RE:RE:Bring them back
by selah on Dec 11, 2007 02:31 PM Permalink
Dear vijay so the discussion is finish. still we ar inside hindutwa as per you. only we believe and pray in our way. thats all . so the term come back is not existing
RE:Bring them back
by selah on Dec 11, 2007 02:47 PM Permalink
Dear vijay you got wrong. we will never support wrong things even it from our side say india or our sect. can you show me any one who supports a terrorst only bcs they are from their sect.
RE:RE:Bring them back
by indian atheist on Dec 11, 2007 02:33 PM Permalink
Yeah Saleh, I am ready to call myself a proud hindu if Vijay means what he says.
RE:RE:Bring them back
by Vijay urf Teesmaar Khan on Dec 11, 2007 02:36 PM Permalink
Definitely you are. Deen Dayal Upadhyaya (ever heard his name?) called Indian muslims as Muhammadi Hindus and Indian christians as Jesusian Hindus. But as I have written in other comment in this discussion, to be a true Indian, you will have to keep India first and every thing else later. You can not do so, if you support terrorists and criminals only because they belong to the same sect to whome you belong.
RE:Bring them back
by indian atheist on Dec 11, 2007 02:32 PM Permalink
So according to you Christians and Muslims are also hindus. I am also hindu. If hinduism is about freedom to choose then everyone is hindu. then why this killing and violence ?
RE:RE:Bring them back
by indian atheist on Dec 11, 2007 02:11 PM Permalink
So lets assume you want to bring me back to hinduism. What would be one thing that you would tell me that I come back to the fold of hinduism. One such that that would atleast truly make me think about hinduism as a option. i am not making fun or you. Its a genuine question.
RE:RE:Bring them back
by Vijay urf Teesmaar Khan on Dec 11, 2007 03:03 PM Permalink
I am happy to know that you don't support any terrorist. But.... (It is big BUT) what about most of others?
RE:RE:Bring them back
by selah on Dec 11, 2007 02:59 PM Permalink
see this is the ugenda . first you are saying some body is a terrorist. and then you make all the others who support them. for example. Madani how you can say he is a terrorrist and in which basis. For Afsal guru no muslims said that he should not hanged even if he is aterrorist. but only asked for the right to present his side. i hope you got the point
RE:Bring them back
by indian atheist on Dec 11, 2007 02:38 PM Permalink
Patriotism is not a property of any religion. Its not right to question the faith of people who have never known any other country than India. Most people in India die without traveling to any other country. I have met many hindus living in US who say India is dirty, India is sick etc... Is that patriotism ?
RE:RE:Bring them back
by Vijay urf Teesmaar Khan on Dec 11, 2007 02:21 PM Permalink
Thank you for your genuine interest. I am giving reply to the best of my knowledge and belief. Hinduism is more nearer to Humanity, because it treats every creature from ant to elephant as a part of its own soul. It does not believe in torturing anybody only because it does not believe in Hinduism and has faith in some other religion or sect. Hinduism does not mean a particular form of worshipping. You are free to worship the God in any form and call it by any name you please. This is the biggest virure of Hindutva. We believe that Truth is one, although it may be said in many ways and God is one, although it may be called by many names. Are you understanding? Any question?
RE:Bring them back
by indian atheist on Dec 11, 2007 03:00 PM Permalink
As far as I know only Kashmiris supported Afzal and there was no support for him from rest of Indian muslims. So its a regional problem not a religious. if you want to see it that way then no one can help it.
RE:Bring them back
by indian atheist on Dec 11, 2007 02:05 PM Permalink
Hahaha. Never in the history of humanity people have converted due to short comings of their faith. They have always converted because they found the other faith more adaptive to their conscience. For e.g. I was a born as a hindu. But then I kept reading about different religions. Then I decided that I can only have a neutral view point if I dont follow a religion. I did. I see my conscience much clearer than the people who claim to belong to x or y religion.
RE:Bring them back
by Rayan Sequeira on Dec 11, 2007 02:27 PM Permalink
shortcomings or no we should let them follow their relion and first think that we are indians rather than placing our religion in front of our nationalism
RE:Bring them back
by Vijay urf Teesmaar Khan on Dec 11, 2007 02:32 PM Permalink
The matter is not so simple. The basic problem is that they follow a sect which has no faith in any nationality. To be a true Indian, we have to be national first. Unless we have full faith towards our country and nothing else more than that, we can not be called true Indians. Only citizenship does not suffice.
RE:Bring them back
by Vijay urf Teesmaar Khan on Dec 11, 2007 03:30 PM Permalink
I still can not believe. I too have some muslim friends, who have taken even dinner with me in my house and I have taken food in their homes No RSS worker will hate any muslim, only because he is muslim. There should be some other reason or they (I mean RSS activists) must be misguided. Perhaps they belong to Shiv Sena, not RSS. Check your facts. RSS beleives in the most liberal ideology of Hindutva. Don't mix extremist Hindus with RSS. This mistake was once done by Nehru ji, who thought that Hindu Mahasabha and RSS are same. Gandhi was murdered by a Hindu Mahasabha activist, but Nehru tried to punish RSS and failed miserably. Still many fools today think that RSS killed Gandhi.
RE:Bring them back
by selah on Dec 11, 2007 03:21 PM Permalink
it is very interesting recently i read some news from Mr. Sudershan which is tottaly against indian intereast. and it is very easy to understand from the behaviour of the people who goes to shaka. i had a best friend named Unni Krishnan in my child hood. even i used to sleep at his house for some nights b4. but now situation got changed. he joined shaka and looking me as his enimy bcs iam a muslim. i still did not join any of sect, from our religion. so why he is showing hatred to all muslims after he joined the shaka. may be ther it is not teaching hatred directly. but automatically their mind get changed after go deeply in to the classes. i have somany experiances.
RE:RE:Bring them back
by selah on Dec 11, 2007 02:51 PM Permalink
vijay for your previous qust. it was happend in Kerala. puthiyakaavu trissur dist. my friend's name is Sameer. just check if you have aproper link
RE:Bring them back
by Vijay urf Teesmaar Khan on Dec 11, 2007 03:01 PM Permalink
As I belong to North India (U.P. to be precise), I have no link in Kerala. But I don't still beleive that they beaten your freind Sameer only because he went to a shakha. Not possible at all. There should be some other matter. Please ask him to contact a senior (I mean old) RSS worker at his locality and talk with him If he has any grievence still not resolved, he is free ot write to RSS chief Sh. K.C. Sudarshan ji at his Nagpur address (just right RSS head qtrs, Nagpur in address). He will definitely reply.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Bring them back
by Vijay urf Teesmaar Khan on Dec 11, 2007 02:26 PM Permalink
If you want to know how we can communicate with each other, then I will like to say that you should go to a RSS shakha daily for few days or an Arya Samaj or Jain temple for few days and hear their preachings.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Bring them back
by Vijay urf Teesmaar Khan on Dec 11, 2007 02:56 PM Permalink
You are highly biased against RSS. You have not seen it from close. Who told you RSS is listed as terrorist outfit? Give me reference. First go to some Shakha for few days and see with your own eyes. No RSS man believes in violence. I am working since my childhood and I have not seen anyone killing even a fly. Ofcourse we oppose and will always keep opposing anti-national elements whether they are hindus or any others.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Bring them back
by Vijay urf Teesmaar Khan on Dec 11, 2007 02:23 PM Permalink
Leet the media say anything. Don't give them more importance.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Bring them back
by selah on Dec 11, 2007 02:35 PM Permalink
One of my friend went to shaka and RSS beat him bcs of his muslim name. so sugest some practical idea. why dont we share our email to communicate
RE:RE:RE:RE:Bring them back
by Vijay urf Teesmaar Khan on Dec 11, 2007 02:38 PM Permalink
I can not believe that this happened in a RSS shakha. Please give me name of the place. You can email me on vijayks@rediffmail.com.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Bring them back
by indian atheist on Dec 11, 2007 02:41 PM Permalink
RSS is widely seen as a terror outfit in the world. Infact it is listed as a terror outfit in US. So its a shame that great ideology like hinduism has to be represented by violent and intolerant people like RSS. This is what takes me away from religion.
RE:Bring them back
by pramodm on Dec 11, 2007 02:57 PM Permalink
in the name caste we are insulted even today. ther is no equal respect evenwhen we are educated. what has hinduism given us low castes? We can believe a leader like vivekananda but not modi,or advani and so. hinduism is a religion that oppressed many indians
RE:RE:Bring them back
by Vijay urf Teesmaar Khan on Dec 11, 2007 03:09 PM Permalink
Castism is a different thing and it is totally wrong. I know there are some people who still think in terms of castes, but most hindus do not. I myself never believe is castism. In RSS it is prohibited to ask anybody his caste. WE have many great leaders in BJP, RSS, VHP who belong to all different castes without any exceptions. And they all are given equal respect. Please do not make it a general view if somebody has done unjustice to you on the basis of your caste.
RE:RE:RE:Bring them back
by Vijay urf Teesmaar Khan on Dec 11, 2007 03:33 PM Permalink
Geeta is correct. We are by birth very near to shudrism i.e. unpurity. By our deeds we achieve Brahmanatva. What is wrong in this? If we do good works, we will have good and high achievements. If we do bad works, we will get punishement and hatred. It is natural law.
RE:Bring them back
by pramodm on Dec 11, 2007 03:21 PM Permalink
Shankara's monism says that everything is Brahman i.e there is only one reality and all else is maya. Ramanuja's dualism says, every things is a reflection of brahman. So why these divisions and discriminations? Gita says person is judged by karma not by any. Every one is the child of God
RE:Bring them back
by indian atheist on Dec 11, 2007 01:55 PM Permalink
Is that possible? My personal opinion is no. Why should religion be so important at all ? Why cant we be just Indians ?
RE:RE:Bring them back
by Vijay urf Teesmaar Khan on Dec 11, 2007 02:07 PM Permalink
Religion is very important. It shapes our mind and gives a purpose for our life. A faith is most powerful motive for any good or bad work. So it is important that most of the people on earth have faith in a religion which is nearest to humanity. At present such a religion in Hindutva and its some branches like Jainism, Buddhism, Sikhism etc.
RE:Bring them back
by indian atheist on Dec 11, 2007 02:10 PM Permalink
Do you really think that present day hinduism and its leaders represent humanity and love?
RE:Bring them back
by indian atheist on Dec 11, 2007 02:50 PM Permalink
Well. Try finding one and you will find a hundred. I dont want to hurt your sentiments by raking up issues which are extremely inhuman and dirty.
RE:Bring them back
by indian atheist on Dec 11, 2007 02:18 PM Permalink
I have more than doubts. I am seeing grave injustices in front of my eyes and you want me to believe otherwise ?
We pak and you india keep on testing the missiles bombs etc.. we poor will remain poor and in hunger. who will teach our leaders the right path. there is no Gandhi to preach Ahimsa....our fate
We test fire missiles every year. It is nothing new for any country to do. It is for the intersts of the countries concerned. Who are we to find fault when we ourselves test fire many of them. To say that Babar was terrorist by the group members show how uneducated and illertate members are about history. History is full of wars by kings. While Hindu kings went on fighting and killing each others, others went beyond their countries to conquer other countries. That was a law then. Foolish comments only show how uneducated the minds are. Speak not with the mouth but with the mind and so also when you write.
RE:India tested many missiles, we felt proud about. Then why not they
by indian atheist on Dec 11, 2007 01:51 PM Permalink
Well not many here are educated :-) There is a difference between being literate and being educated. These people are like the people sitting in the first row of a cheap third grade movie and clapping on every cheap sex scene. This is the level of these "intellectuals"
RE:India tested many missiles, we felt proud about. Then why not they
by pramodm on Dec 11, 2007 01:58 PM Permalink
This is a media and many will read and get influenced. Some times we do wrong but when we teach others, we must teach and proclaim what is right for the society and peaceful co existence of all. Media also have the responsibility to check that comments which can divide and damage harmoney in the society are not circulated. Our parents teach this is it not. Terrorists are outsiders who damage our nation. But in their name we must not divide and ruin our motherland.
RE:India tested many missiles, we felt proud about. Then why not they
by ! on Dec 11, 2007 01:58 PM Permalink
its not clear which people you are talking about.
RE:Babar - Pioneer Terrorist.
by Vijay urf Teesmaar Khan on Dec 11, 2007 01:38 PM Permalink
What do you want from them? Should they name their missiles on Gandhi or Buddha? Destructive weapons are better named on terrorists.
I CAN NOT UNDERSTAND WHY PAKISTANI PREFER ALL THOSE NAME WHICH ARE NOT RELATED TO THEM. WHEN THEY SEE IN THE PAST THEY FIND THEIR FORE FATHERS ARE SAME WHOM THEY ARE TRYING TO INSULT.
RE:Very funny name Babar
by indian atheist on Dec 11, 2007 01:28 PM Permalink
Its not the name. Even if they name the missile as Ram or Krishna or Bajrang, it would be equally bad for humanity. We should all work towards a nuke free world.
RE:Very funny name Babar
by Vijay urf Teesmaar Khan on Dec 11, 2007 01:42 PM Permalink
India also has missiles. They did not name them as Ravan or Duryodhan. We named on natural resources like Prathvi, Aakash, Aag etc or known weapons like Trishool. It is Phakistan, who is naming these missiles as Gauri, Babar, Aurangjeb, Gajanavi, Qasim etc etc. This shows their real motive.
RE:Very funny name Babar
by Kabeer on Dec 11, 2007 02:11 PM Permalink
What is the name of Indian Tank?- ARJUN Look at your Air Indias aircrafts names or Indian navys ships names, and you will notice that none of them bear an islamic name. With so many names and not one islamic one is not a coincidence. Anyway, India need not measure itself against the background of Pak.
RE:RE:Very funny name Babar
by Vijay urf Teesmaar Khan on Dec 11, 2007 04:22 PM Permalink
Arjun was a very brave person. This is why tank is named after him. Regarding Muslim names, unfortunately there are not many brave muslim persons in India. Those who are either invaders or terrorists. They can not be our ideal.
RE:Very funny name Babar
by nagarajan kumaresan on Dec 11, 2007 02:37 PM Permalink
my dear we dont name our ships on the basis of relegion. for example INS Mysore,INS Delhi. so get out of your inferiority complex.
