One think often overlooked is that everyone including Dalits are proud of their caste identity.Thus,we might have grievance against oppresion ,whereever it is but still that does not mean this we want to convert.For example no Dalit would convert in UP as Dalits have a fair share in the power politics.All Dalits want is equality and dignity-which is now a reality due to vote power.
RE:mochi
by ratnesh verma on Dec 01, 2007 06:28 PM Permalink
True, but did your little brain tried to think about the line " Kahe Mochi bhi khud ko Sunar" ... Well if you can not understand I'll expalin it for you.
This is a rhetoric line in which write is making fun of someone caste by comparision.
Infact I will say, not the line whole song should be deleted, and every person invloved in this should be probed, especially writer.
Derogatory comparision between two castes are against the right of equality according to Indian Constitution. The clarification given by the lyricist is completely unsatisfactory. This whole song should be completely banned throught the world and legal action be taken against all concerned film people alongwith the concerned members of Board of Film Certification,Mumbai.-NKG,Jaipur-India.
RE:Ban this song completely without any further delay
by Sudipta Kumar Das on Dec 01, 2007 03:29 PM Permalink
All these are happening in India for the ballot box. The root cause of most of the problems are because of the Election system. This is my sincere request to the Judiciary system and the Honourable President of India to find some other process to elect a democratic Govt. It should not allow the politicians of our country to appease any specific sect or caste to get the vote to get elected. Once this is done we will find lot of problems just vanish from our day to day life even.
is SMITH which is blacksmith/goldsmith. butcher/baker/ are also professions as surnames and no one cribs about it or looks down upon them.. cuz they are not doing the same profession anymore..
most of the parsi names are also with profession mitry/contractor/engineer/daruwalla/dukanwalla/dalwalla/petiwalla/motorwalla/batliwalla/treasurywalla
RE:most common surname in US
by ratnesh verma on Dec 01, 2007 06:35 PM Permalink
Correct, in US its a common surname, but two cultures are different. In US its also not common to compare "Smith's with "King or "Black". No one says " Blacks have started calling themselves Smiths" ?? Isnt it ?
SO YES THERE IS A BIG DEAL ABOUT IT !! INDIA IS A LAND OF CASTEISM. IF WE WANT TO ELIMINATE IT, THEN WE HAVE TO MAKE A BIG DEAL ABOUT IT
- All Politicians are Corrupted and Politics is the best money earning activity in todays world. - The number of Politicians compared to the number of Voters (the common man) is very very low. - it is very difficult for the so called very very low Politicans to control the huge number of voters and do corruption and earn money without being questioned by the voters. - Solution for the above is to divide the common man into small small groups and then agains re-devide them into sub groups within the groups and so on. - To divide the so called common man(including you and me) the best criteria is Religion. - Second best is the Caste - Third is the Region - Fourth is Trade. and so on
it is difficult to control the wave in a SEA, but very easy to play with the water in the Glass.
RE:STop being a puppet in the hands of dirty politicians
by Dravidian on Dec 01, 2007 03:15 PM Permalink
Politicians are simply exploiting already existing divisions. The caste divisions were originally the product of Hinduism.
RE:STop being a puppet in the hands of dirty politicians
by Santosh Gairola on Dec 01, 2007 03:19 PM Permalink
I am just wondering, from which point on do you define "Hinduism"?
RE:STop being a puppet in the hands of dirty politicians
by GN on Dec 01, 2007 03:21 PM Permalink
The Caste system is not the real problem. To define some caste superior, and some caste inferior is the actual problem. and such practice was not a part of Hinduism. the upper Caste and lower caste system intruded into hinduism in the early years of Kaliyug ( 3102 BC approx). Hinduism is a life style with treasure of Knowledge beyond our imagination. Imagine the knowledge of people to define the 9 planets, even the distance of Moon, weight of Moon, and so many things before 10 thousand years. yes I do agree that we lost all those during those dark period when such differentiation was brought in helping some people to grab the power by not giving access of those great knowledge to the mass.
RE:RE:STop being a puppet in the hands of dirty politicians
by Nihit Saxena on Dec 01, 2007 03:39 PM Permalink
accepting the fact that there is/should be caste system is a problem and impratical.. you can not ask a farmers son to only be a farmer, a blacksmiths son to only be a blacksmith.. how will you force that? and whats the point of that? and if you cant it is irelevent.. there is no point in even recognizing it at all.. what happenned in the past happenned.. you can only hurt everyone and yourself more by reminding yourself and everyone about it,.
RE:RE:RE:STop being a puppet in the hands of dirty politicians
by GN on Dec 01, 2007 03:45 PM Permalink
The bifurcation of people with the work what they do is a practice involved in the process of evolution of mankind from Ape to todays modern Human. It was easier for the childrens to learn the work their father from childhood, and even the father used to teach the tricks and techniques to his own son and not sharing with others. a selfish character of man, it even existed then too. But there are people who did left the trade their family engaged and even becomes kings in those eras too.
RE:RE:RE:RE:STop being a puppet in the hands of dirty politicians
by Nihit Saxena on Dec 01, 2007 04:13 PM Permalink
a lot of people can be manipulative
RE:RE:RE:RE:STop being a puppet in the hands of dirty politicians
by GN on Dec 01, 2007 04:06 PM Permalink
So in this machine age, why people want to use their religion, caste to get reservation identifying themself as inferior, and then feel abused if somebody call them with their caste, religion name. ??
RE:RE:RE:RE:STop being a puppet in the hands of dirty politicians
by Nihit Saxena on Dec 01, 2007 03:55 PM Permalink
ok you become human and not ape by tattooing whatever you do and never change that and beat the crap out of your babies if they ever think about that but that was stone age ok?
you want to go live their in your time machine please do that .. but nowdays people generally can choose what to work on or whether not to do any work.. so it is immaterial what those family profession tattoos mean.
RE:STop being a puppet in the hands of dirty politicians
by Nihit Saxena on Dec 01, 2007 03:18 PM Permalink
if you remember it and think about it you are the home of it, they may forget it but you will remind them and do yourself a favour?
RE:STop being a puppet in the hands of dirty politicians
by Dravidian on Dec 01, 2007 03:26 PM Permalink
Dear Saxena, the Brahmins and Kshatriyas constantly reminded the dalits that they were the lowest caste for 2000 years.
RE:STop being a puppet in the hands of dirty politicians
by Deepak MA on Dec 01, 2007 03:31 PM Permalink
ya right... you lived all 2000 years to hear that.
RE:STop being a puppet in the hands of dirty politicians
by GN on Dec 01, 2007 03:35 PM Permalink
Yes, it was during the 3102 BC the darkest period for great hinduism. The superior and inferior concept came into practice. The brahmins want to keep the knowledge in VEDAS within themself like a Fool trying to store all tonnes of rice in his godown for use by his own family for another 100 years and keep thousands in the village starving. and after 1 month finds that half of the grains stores got damaged without being used by anybody.
RE:STop being a puppet in the hands of dirty politicians
by GN on Dec 01, 2007 04:00 PM Permalink
Books which shows you the better way have to be read. Which other books you are referring my brother. I am talking about those literatures and vedas written 10 thousand years. You are talking about watering the branches and forget the roots? One need to understand the value of their roots before trying to spread the branchs in life. Dont read Ramayana as hindu religious book. Try to know the message it want to spread. Ultimate Brotherly relation, ultimate devotion, ultimate sacrifices and many more. No surprise that mahabarata, Quran being considered for including in MBA studies recently.
RE:STop being a puppet in the hands of dirty politicians
by Nihit Saxena on Dec 01, 2007 04:11 PM Permalink
i dont think i ned to read any of them.. i dont care if they were written billion gazillion years back or what they say as i said before life is going good.. you want to water the plants roots etc go ahead but dont push me to water my plants your way.. they are healthy as i know..
RE:RE:STop being a puppet in the hands of dirty politicians
by GN on Dec 01, 2007 03:41 PM Permalink
Mr. Nihit Saxena, The VEDAs and literatures are the proof of knowledge what Indians at that ERA used to possess. Denial to education was what I want to Highlight. There are many VEDAS, UPANISHADS, LITERATURE on many subjects throwing light on many truth about life and the surrounding at which we live.
RE:STop being a puppet in the hands of dirty politicians
by Nihit Saxena on Dec 01, 2007 03:51 PM Permalink
i dont give a dam to what the ** they say.. it doesnt matter now ok? we can all live our lives without needing to follow by any books, they may say truth or not but so do so many other books do i have time to read them no.. follow them definitely not cuz life is going quite good without that.. so for you too get a life rather than being slave to some books ok?
RE:RE:STop being a puppet in the hands of dirty politicians
by Nihit Saxena on Dec 01, 2007 03:37 PM Permalink
yeah .. as if only vedas have all the knowledge.. i dont know veda so i dont know anything what will happen to me now :(
RE:new issue
by GN on Dec 01, 2007 03:11 PM Permalink
The first remedy is to stop using Upper or Lower along with the CASTE word. its a caste, why the hell lower or upper placed beside it.
RE:RE:new issue
by Dravidian on Dec 01, 2007 03:13 PM Permalink
What is there in a word my friend? As long as there is no deed or transformation in the heart, changing words is useless.
RE:new issue
by GN on Dec 01, 2007 03:15 PM Permalink
The word do keeep lot of meaning. a single word can do the trick to divide 100000000 people into 10000 groups.
RE:new issue
by Dravidian on Dec 01, 2007 03:19 PM Permalink
No. It requires systematic discrimination for causing the extent of divisions that are existing in India today. It is the structure of Hinduism that caused these divisions. Not the modern English words "upper" or "lower".
RE:RE:new issue
by Nihit Saxena on Dec 01, 2007 03:20 PM Permalink
why to use the word caste at all.. it used to be just a profession.. why stamp it? whats the problem in forgetting about what someones great grandfather did some 100s of years back,.
RE:new issue
by Nihit Saxena on Dec 01, 2007 03:41 PM Permalink
i dont see the caste written on my body from birth where do you see it on yourself.. i hope you didnt tattoo it on your forehead or got married to it..
RE:new issue
by Ashwin Deshmukh on Dec 01, 2007 05:46 PM Permalink
When you want reservation, you proudly say caste i.e. Mochi. When somebody pointed out that you are from Mochi category, you guys feels it as derogatory remarks. You should be proud of being mochi category. Why so much hue & cry as long as you are benefitted from MOCHI
RE:new issue
by on Dec 01, 2007 04:03 PM Permalink
WHy the F*k even use the word caste.. why the F*k is it there in India still? Why cant people jus' be please educated in India and taught from kindergarten to not believe in caste system and n think of themselves as f**kin humans. India cud be such a better place without the caste system.. alas! I empathize with uneducated people because their conditioning was such, but when educated people yell about caste, tht makes me miss home much less.
RE:RE:new issue
by Nihit Saxena on Dec 01, 2007 03:29 PM Permalink
are you addressing mr dalit (i suggest him to tattoo these words on his forehead to remind us in case we forget) or to me? i am saying that whats the point of saying one is lower/upper based on ones grandparents profession which he may not be doing anymore.. it is true that comapritively a gold related profession is more saught after than an iron/leather related so whats the big deal if someone says that a mochi/chamar wished he was a goldsmith..
isnt there also a saying sau sunar ki ek luhar ki hoti hai.. should that also be banned?
also isnt michael schumaker a racer of top quality even if his great grandparents where chamar/mochi
RE:tattoo your profession on your forehead
by Anurag Shrivastava on Dec 01, 2007 03:02 PM Permalink
Well... if that was a case Michael Schumacker would have been still making shoes like his forefathers than become a F1 champion. Some people just are happy defending being a mochi - a profession ( not caste ) which is destined to disappear in future.
RE:RE:tattoo your profession on your forehead
by Nihit Saxena on Dec 01, 2007 03:25 PM Permalink
actaully people are tattooing and marrying to their professions by taking reservations and making an official stamp on their lives. which is stupid..
haha.. micheal schumacker is an excellent example of that a man can be a racer even if his parents might have been mochi/chamar.. cuz its just a profession.. it doesnt seem to affect him at all. i guess mayawati would now ask to ban michael schumaker from all the races and also from doing anything other than being mochi/chamar
RE:Mochi and Sunar
by ratnesh verma on Dec 01, 2007 06:45 PM Permalink
Technically you are correct Deepak, Mochi can never be Sunar, but are we comparing castes or are we comparing professions here ?
As far as I think, in todays world even Mochi business as well as Sunar business, are in hands of rich folks. ( Like Liberty, Lakhana, BATA, LaBella and several other thousands ) so looks in we were comparing castes here.
People are shouting in UP, probably people might have felt something... did this ever occur to you ??
RE:Mochi and Sunar
by Nihit Saxena on Dec 01, 2007 02:55 PM Permalink
he can be he just needs to change his profession and get the art.. thats the problem people think that a person and his family gets 'married' to his profession.. grow up people change professions all the time..
RE:RE:Mochi and Sunar
by Vikas Saraswat on Dec 01, 2007 03:34 PM Permalink
Don't abuse Manusmriti without ever reading it. Ambedkar himself formed his entire case of Dalits being equal to other castes based on Manusmriti.But i do not expect any cirscumspection from you. People such as you are the Dalit fundamentalists.
RE:Mochi and Sunar
by Nihit Saxena on Dec 01, 2007 03:42 PM Permalink
i dont see the caste written on my body from birth where do you see it on yourself.. i hope you didnt tattoo it on your forehead or got married to it..
We are arguing for a line in a song saying either it promotes casteism / it is a blow on creativity. I won%u2019t comment on either. I support no political party. But, do we know - how many movies have the word "----------" meaning mother %u201C------%u201C ? We are comfortable with that. Forget that as in movie a situation is created based on different dialogues. But how many times the so-called educated & elite class (students even) speak out ---- in style/ -- --- --- -- (Marathi) as a habit & we are totally comfortable. If we consider ourselves ethnic / educated / elite shouldn%u2019t use words carefully knowing what would it mean. Arguing or fighting against a movie won%u2019t change the society. I feel movies are the reflection of the society not that the society reflects the movies with a small degree of exception. So, we should change ourselves 1st & then try to change the movies. Beyond that any of these words are used for creativity may be just used to rhyme the line. I feel we should adjust with such words for freedom of thought & creativity & further development. If we find it derogatory don't go to watch that movie. But then we will have to miss out almost all movies. PLEASE NOTE THESE ARE MY VIEWS. DON'T REPLY IF YOU DON'T AGREE TO IT. THANKS
Why dont these "Politicians" concentrate in improving the overall conditions of the society. If they talk about getting hurt from a song.. They are here just for time pass. Millions are rather hurt.. when the electricity is off for 10 hours a day.. no water.. lack of infrastructure. Talk about the basic needs of the people and then talk about sentiments.
RE:Time-Pass Politics
by GN on Dec 01, 2007 02:57 PM Permalink
by using that issues, one will not able to divide the vote bank.
that issues can be only used against the ruling party. Not a permanent issue, as the one who opposes knows they themself will not able to solve those.
The easiest way is to use caste and religion, then region. you can easily confirm your vote bank. It is very difficult to get your vote bank fixed by engaged in road development &social services. You can get fame easily by declaring yourself the Messiah of any specific religion or caste. your followers will be busy fighting with others and you can sit back, relax and enjoy the incoming money from all sides
RE:Time-Pass Politics
by Nihit Saxena on Dec 01, 2007 02:52 PM Permalink
you cant earn money or play politics by solving real issues.. where will you get all the drama and excitement from in that case.. we are so hungry and devoid of entertainment think about us as well.. isnt real work boring?
