Mr.Singh you are painting a wrong picture and shamelessly supporting America ( I heard your children are American citizens and some of them work for American Governmnet ). You are a Finance guy and dont know anything about Nucleur energy. The American Civil Liberties Union she works for is a proxy for CIA. LOet us cut the crap Mr.Singh.
France which has nothing to do with USA is the most advanced nation in Nucleur Energy. As much as 70% of France's power requirement is fed by Nucleur energy. No one is saying dont trade with America? But Why do we need to sell out
RE:Stop licking America's feet.
by ASHOK on Sep 01, 2007 03:59 PM Permalink
Anand >> You are ignorant or idiot , raising passions. Without Indo US 123 Nuclear agreement , India can not trade with France or Russia.
No one gave nuke technology to America,Russia or France.They developed it on their own.They developed their own scientific,technological and industrial capabilities.They never went about saying that"we should sign this or that Deal with this or that country to get the technology or else we will miss the Nuke bus".They built their own bus to the best of their abilities and whenever they faced problems they developed the necessary skills,infrastructure, etc,and marched ahead.They had total faith in their own capabilities and self confidence in achieving the goal.Why should we always look to someone to solve our own problems?Yes,in a globalised world economy,it makes sense to get what you don't have from outside.That is OK for non-strategic resources and inputs.But when it comes to strategic resources and skills,we need to develop our own capabilities totally independent of any external strings.Look at China.They are world leaders in Diamond manufacturing tehnology totally outstripping all the nations in the world.
Why is our govt always thinking like pigmies.Especially MMS has shown abject lack of leadership.He has become a pathetic boot-licker.Instead had given a Lion's call to our scientists and exhorted to "Envision the dream of developing the Thorium reactor in a MISSION mode than in a routine slow development,I am sure our scientists and engineers would pick up the gauntlet and work on the "MISSION OF THEIR LIFE"!! That is the way to leapfrog in technology leadership!
RE:We can never miss the bus, if it is our own!
by ASHOK on Sep 01, 2007 04:12 PM Permalink
China manufacturing Diamonds?? Manufacturing is differrent than Cutting and polishing. Are you sure, what you mean by Manufacturing.
Also note , india needs uranium ( without which Thorium reactor will not Breed) We have plenty of Thorium and we are low on Uranium.
To import Uranium we will have to gaurantee that we will use it for Electricity generation only. We will not use the imported stuff for Nuclear armamenets.
So big question is to generate feed for Thorium reactrs.
If you do not know all these fine points why do you start jumping and blaming Indian Govt.(especially MMS>> Who brought india out of shame of sending Soverighn Gold to UK, for 1 weeks Crude oil supply)
RE:We can never miss the bus, if it is our own!
by Chakravarthy Muralidhar on Sep 01, 2007 06:04 PM Permalink
Mr.Ashok,you sure don't know anything about diamonds.China is the world's largest manufacturer of synthetic diamonds.Synthesis of diamond was invented by Sweden (ABB) and then USA (GE) in 1957.Initially industrial diamonds were derived from the waste during processing natural diamonds.As it had phenomenal applications is cutting extremely hard materials,these were in great demand.A carat(0.2 gms) of industrial diamond used to cost as much as $10-15.Then when artificial synthesis was invented,the price came down to $3-6 a ct.The demand even at this high price was nearly 200-250 million cts per year.Then communist USSR & China decided to develop their own technology and expertise as they saw a great hope of earning billions out plain cheap coal (graphite)!They embarked on it in a mission mode and by the early 90s had almost built commercial scale plants.Besides,China set up nearly 30 different university departments,dedicated research institutes to develop all the facets of diamond synthesis technology.While the USSR broke up and went through a social and economic turmoil in its transition,China continued its onward thrust in diamond synthesis.Result:Today China has nearly 100 synthetic diamond manufacturing cos with the big ones producing a few billions of cts of synthetic diamond per month.Today all western diamond manufacturers have completely stopped manufacturing.The whole world sources industrial diamonds exclusively from China.It has thousands of diamond technologists!
RE:RE:We can never miss the bus, if it is our own!
by Chakravarthy Muralidhar on Sep 01, 2007 06:30 PM Permalink
Now let me focus on your advise on thorium reactors!Yes I know that you need uranium to take up thorium cycle in FBRs.Incidentally FBRs can breed fuel from any base,i.e,natural uranium or reprocessed/enriched uranium.India has got sufficient quantity of spent uranium stored in underground silos,as India doesn't return any spent uranium it has been buying from Russia.At the moment India is trying to follow its original 3-phase technology development wherein the 1st and 2nd phase nuke power reactors need uranium.Even here,significant part of naural uranium is replaced by reprocessed uranium small qty of plutonium as fuel in 2nd ph.Simultaneously,construction and operation of 2-3 FBRs of 1000 MW is the starting point of breeding fuel from thorium using the surplus uranium and pt generated in the FBRs.This is expected to entirely obviate the need for uranium in the 3rd ph when large scale thorium conversion will be taken up gradually.The point is our scientists are not forthcoming with a plan to cut short the 2nd phase and jump-start the 3rd ph.They do not want to commit until the 500 MW PFBR under construction goes critical and starts successful breeding.What is required is great political courage and leadership to back the scientists and urge them to start construction of 2-3 1500-2000MW FBRs even as the PFBR is being built.Someone like the PM must inspire and back the nuke team and supporting industries to give the mission their all and work like men possessed for India.
RE:We can never miss the bus, if it is our own!
by Lalatendu Deo on Sep 01, 2007 09:52 PM Permalink
It is not the political will, but the complicacies involved in getting to the goal. We can not simply jump from 40 to 1000 just by multiplying it by 25 if a very much complicated process is involved.
And our going for the 123 deal is exactly in line with the experiments we are carrying out. Do any one of us here know as to how much uranium we have in store. And as to how much of it is enriched one.
Only a handful of Indians do not wish India to go for the nuclear road. And they have valid reasons as well.
RE:RE:RE:We can never miss the bus, if it is our own!
by ASHOK on Sep 02, 2007 06:49 AM Permalink
Chakravarthy >> Thanks for updating me regarding current leader of Artificial Diamond manufacturing. I really had no idea.
I will agree that from 50 MW FBR at Kalpakkam we are going for 500 MW FBR , all is at test stage.
One can go in for 1000 MW FBR at drawing board stage but going for physical design will need committing lot of resources.
All this does take time. Take example of worlds largest Nuclear Fuel Reprocessing facility in UK, it took 20 years and around 6 Billion $ to get going , despite having no sanctions on UK.
It will be good step if MMS is able to integrate India to rest of the NSG countries, that will quicken the pace for FBR scale up also.
In FBR design or any reactor design, Data acqution / controll instrumantation is almost same and it is French / German / Japanese / Americans who have advantage in that area and Russia or China are lagging behind. I believe 123 Nuclear agreement will open the door for this Technical excahnge and progress in FBR area will also move up.
If we develop and stabilise complete cycle, than obviously we are reducing Nuclear waste and we will also be a significant player in NSG , for Nuclear Technology Exports.
You must have Read BARAK OBAMA coments, even he is aware that India has made progress in Reprossing area and US is indeed eyeing a joint venture in that area.
China or Russia are lacking in Reprocessing and will take a lot of time to cover the extra mile.
The UPA Government should have held discussions with the BJP and the Left before finalising the deal. Instead of that they finalised everything on their own and asking everybody else to accept it. It is a failure on the part of Government that a consensus on such a crucial issue is not achieved.
And we have to be extremely careful with the terms and conditions.
Samarath ko nahi dosh gunsaaee.
That driver may stop the bus any time and strand us in the wilderness.
Do we have an alternative driver ?
For them, it is US that comes first, and it would be the Hyde act that they would apply on Bharatvarsh !
There has to be a special provision in the agreement that the Hyde Act would not apply to Bharatvarsh under any and all circumstances.
Tall order ?
No.
That is exactly what the Neanderthaal occupying the Oval should be asked to fight it out on behalf of Bharatvarsh with his own congressmen, rather than a PM fighting out with his own colleagues in the House !
RE:Lekin, sardarji, the driver is drunk.
by JM on Sep 01, 2007 11:00 AM Permalink
: Bihari lal Maurya, 95% petroleum in the world is controlled by OPEC- thugs and brutal dictators. Is there an alternate driver? So do we ban all petroleum? 85% of worlds diamonds is controlled by deBeers. Is there an alternate driver?
It seems like it is Bharatvarsh's luck that a neanderthal is occupying the Oval. You think the sex-maniac would go to lengths with the congress to get this deal for India? or do you think his dharam-patni would go against any of her advisors like the neanderthal did to get a deal for India?
The risk to return is small enough (rather very small) for India to give up the bus. Or maybe you have never ridden on any bus because it has only one driver.
Got it Bihari-brainiac? By the way how is your uncle Lalu doing?
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RE:Why Conressi is so arrogant
by jjjjjjjj jjjjjjjj on Sep 01, 2007 03:34 AM Permalink
well oposition is taken in confidence now oposition is causing problems like BJP do every time first yes and then no
RE:RE:Why Conressi is so arrogant
by hiral joshi on Sep 01, 2007 01:48 PM Permalink
When was taken in confidence? For that govt should declare everything first in parliament, that is what called taking everyone in confidence.
