What a suggestion?The little man doesnot know the spelling of atomic.And without knowing it he has been dispensing corrupt/criminal/communal lobby every five year. the Lalus,Mulayams,Jailalitas,Commies etc. are his creations. Jai Little Man
Besides, all Indians must know how the Indian deal compares with the Chinese deal
http://www.indianexpress.com/story/212219.html
Reading all the articles in tandem an ordinary unbiased Indian can arrive at the same conclusion what all the experts in India have been saying that the deal is good for the country.
RE:What Pakistan & China Feel.....
by Batman on Aug 29, 2007 07:52 PM Permalink
I suggest to everyone to read the articles in the above link provoded by Vikas. Its a must read. This should make clear to the rest of our countrymen who still are nt convinced abt the Deal, hw important the deal is for us and what a wonderful job Team Manmohan has done in gettin this deal without givin away nethn. Plz read it
RE:What Pakistan & China Feel.....
by george on Aug 29, 2007 08:23 PM Permalink
We may have got a "better" deal than China, but that doesnt quite translate into a "good" deal . The deal will produce 7% of our energy requirement for the next 40 years, provided India has a foreign policy congruent to US, halt further development of nuclear arsenal, and supports US in isolating new nuclear states(read Iran). its as simple as that... You don't have to be a nuclear scientist to understand this. If this is acceptable, everything is fine. The complete text of the 123 agreement, the Hyde act and the nuclear deal with china is available here. http://www.xrl.us/4jp8
RE:What Pakistan & China Feel.....
by Kaushik Basu on Aug 29, 2007 10:07 PM Permalink
There is a catch to what you are saying. US at this stage don't need a proof to isolate you. It can do it on any pretext and no one would come forward in support. Instead if you are in a deal with US and if there is a difference of opinion, US would try to negotiate its way through to safeguard its financial interests, which it would not have if you are not in deal. Therefore you would be more safe even with difference of opinion apart from getting benefits if you are in deal than otherwise.
RE:What Pakistan & China Feel.....
by Batman on Aug 29, 2007 10:13 PM Permalink
If the US can get out so can we. Why do u think we are weak n we cannot face the challenges the US might force on us in the future. We are growing, n we are growin fast. We beleive the US cannot dictate terms to us. If the US puts in conditions, we have every right to reject it if we thnk its nt in our interest. World politics is all about give n take. The US is no angelto give us everythn for free. Why the US look at urself would u be willing to part with half of ur salary with ne one. Obviously nt as its ur hard earned money. Same here. We have the weigh our options n thn come to a conclusion. Foregn policy cannot be run on principles and old ideology. Its national interests that drives foreign policy. Nobody is in love with the US here. its all about where our interest lie.
RE:What Pakistan & China Feel.....
by Batman on Aug 29, 2007 10:42 PM Permalink
How does the the deal make the US boss here. This deal is on equal terms though the fact remains we cannot match the US superiority at this time, still its on equal terms. U have contradicted ur own words here. U say India wants to be a superpower whers the US is already a super power, so the fact is the US is superior right now and we are workin hard to be more powerful than the US still under these circumstance the deal is on equal terms. What s the crtical thng abt the deal being for 40 years, kinly elaborate further on this...
RE:What Pakistan & China Feel.....
by george on Aug 29, 2007 10:22 PM Permalink
US is the boss in this deal and thats the problem.. why not go for a deal on equal terms if India is/want to be a super power. The fact that the deal is for 40 long years is of critical importance.
RE:What Pakistan & China Feel.....
by george on Aug 29, 2007 10:15 PM Permalink
Well.. Kaushik,, to say we have to go into this deal cause US may some day isolate us, is not acceptable.
RE:What Pakistan & China Feel.....
by Batman on Aug 29, 2007 10:24 PM Permalink
Who says the US will isolate us. And yes i don care if they plan to do that, u knw why, bcoz after 60 years of independence we have got the strength and confidence to face any challenge and we know nobody can harm us. thats or strength our confidence and most importantly our hardwork. We are scared of neone.
RE:RE:What Pakistan & China Feel.....
by vikas sethi on Aug 29, 2007 11:34 PM Permalink
George,
Most of the pt in the hyde act are cosmetic for non proliferation hawks in US. They r all non binding clauses.It is like indian govt saying US is working for Indian interests bcoz it is following a policy in Pak that suits us. We cannot force US to continue that policy, Can we?
RE:What Pakistan & China Feel.....
by george on Aug 30, 2007 07:28 AM Permalink
lol.. who made the hyde act? US makes the terms. I dont know why are bringing in bravery and cowardace in.. it as question of intellect and comon sense not bravery.
RE:RE:What Pakistan & China Feel.....
by Batman on Aug 30, 2007 12:21 AM Permalink
give us proof of US makin terms and we obeying them. Dont just bark show the proof. U r a coward and will always remain so george
RE:What Pakistan & China Feel.....
by george on Aug 29, 2007 10:35 PM Permalink
@Batman This is the response to the question "What makes u say India is playin second fiddle to the US.????" Jusr read the hyde act. How about India passing an act on same grounds
(B) the country has a functioning and uninterrupted democratic system of government, has a foreign policy that is congruent to that of the United States, and is working with the United States in key foreign policy initiatives related to non-proliferation;
(C) such cooperation induces the country to implement the highest possible protections against the proliferation of technology related to weapons of mass destruction programs and the means to deliver them, and to refrain from actions that would further the development of its nuclear weapons program; and
(D) such cooperation will induce the country to give greater political and material support to the achievement of United States global and regional nonproliferation objectives, especially with respect to dissuading, isolating, and, if necessary, sanctioning and containing states that sponsor terrorism and terrorist groups, that are seeking to acquire a nuclear weapons capability or other weapons of mass destruction capability and the means to deliver such weapons;
RE:RE:What Pakistan & China Feel.....
by george on Aug 29, 2007 10:30 PM Permalink
@Batman ofcourse we are not. My objection of the deal has nothing to do with the fear factor.
RE:What Pakistan & China Feel.....
by george on Aug 29, 2007 09:36 PM Permalink
@ Batman Instead of saying "u r wrong" why dont you post the right analysis.
How does these terms sound to you?
(B) the country has a functioning and uninterrupted democratic system of government, has a foreign policy that is congruent to that of the United States, and is working with the United States in key foreign policy initiatives related to non-proliferation;
(C) such cooperation induces the country to implement the highest possible protections against the proliferation of technology related to weapons of mass destruction programs and the means to deliver them, and to refrain from actions that would further the development of its nuclear weapons program; and
(D) such cooperation will induce the country to give greater political and material support to the achievement of United States global and regional nonproliferation objectives, especially with respect to dissuading, isolating, and, if necessary, sanctioning and containing states that sponsor terrorism and terrorist groups, that are seeking to acquire a nuclear weapons capability or other weapons of mass destruction capability and the means to deliver such weapons;
RE:What Pakistan & China Feel.....
by Batman on Aug 29, 2007 10:15 PM Permalink
What makes u say India is playin second fiddle to the US. give us proof of that
RE:RE:What Pakistan & China Feel.....
by Batman on Aug 29, 2007 09:59 PM Permalink
Have faith in the new India George and plz get rid of ur inferiority complex and the fear psychosis regarding the US. We ll make sure India is compromised in any way. Power respects Power and we have enough power. Dont project India as weak to the world plz.
RE:What Pakistan & China Feel.....
by Batman on Aug 29, 2007 09:57 PM Permalink
The Hyde Act is a cosmetic effect to shut the mouths of the Non Proliferation hawks in Washington who vehemently oppose this deal. It can neva and will neva bind India into anything. The US understands it has no leverage to stop India from testign weapons. The US will not withdraw from the deal neither will it impose sanctions on India as it has billions of dollars of investment in India. Remember 1998 whn US imposed sanctions on India and has to finally bite the dust whn they realized it was their companies that were suffering the most. So chill the time for us has come to give India its due place on the world stage. Nuthn ca stop India now frm becoming a superpower. The left traitors will go to hell with their chinese masters. Chinas plan of containment and suppresing India to third world status will be defetead.
RE:What Pakistan & China Feel.....
by george on Aug 29, 2007 10:06 PM Permalink
I have no inferiority complex. I think India is better than US and can do very well without playing second fiddle to US in this deal.
RE:What Pakistan & China Feel.....
by george on Aug 29, 2007 09:52 PM Permalink
Our deal is definitley better than the Chinese, "technically".... But the hyde act has terms which are ambigous( The ones in my previous posts). Bush "says" they are not binding" but the act doesnt.
RE:What Pakistan & China Feel.....
by Batman on Aug 29, 2007 09:44 PM Permalink
How can a deal that is better than one that china got be a bad deal for India. Everyone knows the economic rise of china. Now this rise requires power. This deal gives us more than wot the chinese got and the chinese are known for the shrewdness with qwhich they protect their interests. Surely we have protected our interests better than the chinese. As per co operation with America is considered, wots wrong with that. U sure don wanna pursue a isolationist policy. If one has to be recognized as a global player thn one has to play global politics. Aliging with countries is one such global game to gain maximum from the current prevailing world conditions. What u suggest is we breakin relations with everyone and just become isolated from the rst of the world. And i dont understand ur fears of the whites. Even after 60 years of independence u have a fear Psychosis vis a vis the Whites and the US in particular. Even after 60 years u r nt confident abt ur freedom and the strength to keep that freedom. U still think u will be enslaved. tell me why dosn the Americans think India will capture the US and enslave the americans through this deal, thats bcoz they are strong and confident and very agressive. Same feelings should be here in us Indians.
The deal will produce 7% of our energy requirement for the next 40 years, provided India has a foreign policy congruent to US, halt further development of nuclear arsenal, and supports US in isolating new nuclear states(read Iran). its as simple as that... You don't have to be a nuclear scientist to understand this. If this is acceptable, everything is fine. The complete text of the 123 agreement, the Hyde act and the nuclear deal with china is available here.
RE:Know the deal
by Batman on Aug 29, 2007 10:07 PM Permalink
Why do u think 7% is less for a population of 1 billion. Its enough to light 70 million houses. Now that sure is not less. And why do u think it cant be more than that. The 7% is just a projection a rough estimate. U neva know it can be far more than that. Y r u always on the pessimist side. y cant u thnk positive.
RE:Know the deal
by george on Aug 29, 2007 10:12 PM Permalink
Murphy's laws 1. If anything can go wrong, it will. 2. If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. Corollary: If there is a worse time for something to go wrong, it will happen then. 3. If anything just cannot go wrong, it will anyway. 4. If you perceive that there are four possible ways in which something can go wrong, and circumvent these, then a fifth way, unprepared for, will promptly develop. 5. Left to themselves, things tend to go from bad to worse. 6. If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something. 7. Nature always sides with the hidden flaw.
12% is an optimistic estimate and 7% a conservative( sensible?) estimate. I never said 7% is small or negligible. I am just concerned wether its worth the deal.
RE:Know the deal
by Batman on Aug 29, 2007 10:20 PM Permalink
Why are u only thinkin abt the worngs, y nt think abt the rights. why this negative mindset. if nethn goes wromg we have the capacity and the capability to handle it. We hope everthn goes right n will make sure it does bt we are also prepared for the wrongs. don worry abt that. If u everythn will be just wrng thn plz close all ur doors and windows and just neva come outa ur into the world. U have a vary negative mindset george. come on be brave and face the world with confidencce. we all know wrong things will happen. nobody is denying it. but the fear of wrongs will neva let u do right things. life is all about hw u deal with wrongs and how u use the right things.
RE:Know the deal
by george on Aug 29, 2007 10:24 PM Permalink
Well.. Batman.. bravery beyond a limit is called stupidity.. i hope common sense prevails.
RE:Know the deal
by george on Aug 29, 2007 11:03 PM Permalink
This argument can go on for ever. If the deal goes through that our economy is going to be dependent on an ambigous deal which if terminated would sent the country into an energy crisis. I bet we will not be looking for alternate sources as long the deal is intact.It is definitley a matter of concern
RE:RE:Know the deal
by george on Aug 29, 2007 10:48 PM Permalink
I cant belive you cant think of instances where bravery crosses the lmit into stupidity. btw i dont think India should be "afraid" of US
RE:Know the deal
by Batman on Aug 29, 2007 10:55 PM Permalink
why cant u think of instance where bravery surpasses stupidity. if u dont thn u alwaysbe stupid n never be brave as for every step u take u ll think its stupidity n u will nevatake that step. n how does ur words suggest indian sovereignty is compromised. plz be more clear... Give proof of a foreign policy that is congruent to that of the United States. ur next point "and is working with the United States in key foreign policy initiatives related to non-proliferation;" is actualy required. wot do u want nukes everywhere. we need to stop proliferation of nukes. woz wrng wi dat.
RE:Know the deal
by Batman on Aug 29, 2007 10:37 PM Permalink
Why?? Shpw me the limits u have set beyond whch bravery is stupidity. Y do u fear the US so much. Look at the chinese they have every possible deal with the US. show me one instance where the chinese have compromised their sovereignity. Do u thnk the chinese are superior to us Indians. Shed ur fear and just work hard and intelligently for indian progress. we are nt a bunch of stupid people to get swayed by America. we know exctly wot we r doin.we know theloopholes. we knw the negative points of this deal. still we also knw how to deal with those in our interests.
RE:Know the deal
by george on Aug 29, 2007 10:44 PM Permalink
The chinese chose "technically" inferior deal which doesnot compromised their sovereignity while Indians chose the "technically" superior deal which compromises their sovereignity.
RE:Know the deal
by george on Aug 29, 2007 10:50 PM Permalink
(B) the country has a functioning and uninterrupted democratic system of government, has a foreign policy that is congruent to that of the United States, and is working with the United States in key foreign policy initiatives related to non-proliferation;
RE:RE:Know the deal
by gregory naik on Aug 30, 2007 02:08 AM Permalink
the deal is worth it especially after looking at the energy crisis that we are facing back at home, the policy is n ot dead end, only thing US will do is ask back all the materials and technology that they have provided, so what the problem we can give it back if any circistances of that sort arise. Make the deal use the material as long as we think we are not dominated no one can dominate us we are not that small or under developed and US needs us. Accept the deal....
RE:Know the deal
by george on Aug 30, 2007 07:34 AM Permalink
@ Batman You are the one who is making assumtions. You are the one who said "The Hyde Act is a cosmetic effect to shut the mouths of the Non Proliferation hawks in Washington who vehemently oppose this deal. ". Thats what is an assumtion All what i have said is based on the "technicality" of the "text" in hyde act. Its not driven by fear,it driven by common sense.
RE:RE:Know the deal
by george on Aug 30, 2007 07:36 AM Permalink
and ofcourse.. the fact that i have not attcked you personally doesnt mean you can continue to call me names.
Mr Sreenivasan, Its only people like you and me , who hail from metros have some idea about such deals and its importance / significance, hence we write articles, blogs etc about the same. For majority of Indians , its more important to think about food , clothing & shelter. To have midterm elections is definitely not a solution
RE:How many understand the deal ?
by george on Aug 29, 2007 05:30 PM Permalink
The deal will produce 7% of our energy requirement for the next 40 years, provided India has a foreign policy congruent to US, halt further development of nuclear arsenal, and supports US in isolating new nuclear states(read Iran). its as simple as that... You don't have to be a nuclear scientist to understand this. If this is acceptable, everything is fine. The complete text of the 123 agreement, the Hyde act and the nuclear deal with china is available here. http://www.xrl.us/4jp8
RE:How many understand the deal ?
by george on Aug 29, 2007 09:37 PM Permalink
@ Batman Instead of saying "u r wrong" why dont you post the right analysis.
How does these terms sound to you?
(B) the country has a functioning and uninterrupted democratic system of government, has a foreign policy that is congruent to that of the United States, and is working with the United States in key foreign policy initiatives related to non-proliferation;
(C) such cooperation induces the country to implement the highest possible protections against the proliferation of technology related to weapons of mass destruction programs and the means to deliver them, and to refrain from actions that would further the development of its nuclear weapons program; and
(D) such cooperation will induce the country to give greater political and material support to the achievement of United States global and regional nonproliferation objectives, especially with respect to dissuading, isolating, and, if necessary, sanctioning and containing states that sponsor terrorism and terrorist groups, that are seeking to acquire a nuclear weapons capability or other weapons of mass destruction capability and the means to deliver such weapons;
RE:How many understand the deal ?
by sangineersha on Aug 29, 2007 05:30 PM Permalink
But that doesn't mean that without resolving many open issues we should still go ahead with the N Deal. A proper deliberation should allowed to take place.
As a indian citizen, one should respect the opinion of others. At present it seems to many that USA is trying to control our Energy System and which in turn will allow him to control our economy. So the fundamental question is as Indian Citizen we should allow what is good for us and our generations to come. There is no harm if our intellegentsia from all strata of society sits and come to a common understanding. Let us not rely on these politicians. Sorry to say but our PM is not elected by us but has come through consensus of USA and Sonia. Even before whole of India knew it CNN has declared that likley candidate for PM is Manmohan Singh. So there r lot of hidden agendas. We have to be consious of all this if we r truly Indian citizen
RE:PLEASE GO AHEAD WITH THE NUCLEAR DEAL
by george on Aug 29, 2007 05:17 PM Permalink
The deal will produce 7% of our energy requirement for the next 40 years, provided India has a foreign policy congruent to US, halt further development of nuclear arsenal, and supports US in isolating new nuclear states(read Iran). its as simple as that... You don't have to be a nuclear scientist to understand this. If this is acceptable, everything is fine. The complete text of the 123 agreement, the Hyde act and the nuclear deal with china is available here. http://www.xrl.us/4jp8
RE:RE:PLEASE GO AHEAD WITH THE NUCLEAR DEAL
by george on Aug 29, 2007 05:18 PM Permalink
Murphy's laws 1. If anything can go wrong, it will. 2. If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. Corollary: If there is a worse time for something to go wrong, it will happen then. 3. If anything just cannot go wrong, it will anyway. 4. If you perceive that there are four possible ways in which something can go wrong, and circumvent these, then a fifth way, unprepared for, will promptly develop. 5. Left to themselves, things tend to go from bad to worse. 6. If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something. 7. Nature always sides with the hidden flaw.
12% is an optimistic estimate and 7% a conservative( sensible?) estimate. No more
RE:PLEASE GO AHEAD WITH THE NUCLEAR DEAL
by sangineersha on Aug 29, 2007 05:23 PM Permalink
As a indian citizen, one should respect the opinion of others. At present it seems to many that USA is trying to control our Energy System and which in turn will allow him to control our economy. So the fundamental question is as Indian Citizen we should allow what is good for us and our generations to come. There is no harm if our intellegentsia from all strata of society sits and come to a common understanding. Let us not rely on these politicians. Sorry to say but our PM is not elected by us but has come through consensus of USA and Sonia. Even before whole of India knew it CNN has declared that likley candidate for PM is Manmohan Singh. So there r lot of hidden agendas. We have to be consious of all this if we r truly Indian citizen
RE:PLEASE GO AHEAD WITH THE NUCLEAR DEAL
by Batman on Aug 30, 2007 12:24 AM Permalink
Indian PM through US consensus. are u in ur senses. this is the most stupid argument ever could be... Get outta ur colonial mindset and take centerstage of the world. we are a great power on the way to superpower status. ur thinking reflects the mindset of the 1950's
Indian democracy is a sham and all bogus and crap. How does the author think that we leave the deal to the voter. Does the author know that 50% of India is illiterate and only 40% of population votes. It is anybody's guess what is the knowledge level of an Indian voter when we keep electing criminals and thugs. Indian democracy is a total failure. It is our chaltha hay attitude which has resulted in this mess. 1 billion people - what a waste of humanity.
RE:Indian Democracy is a sham!
by ihd on Aug 29, 2007 11:41 PM Permalink
indian democracy may be sham- as you say it- the point is to improve it.
if you think the uneducated and illiterate voters cause problem in selecting correct/ appropriate option, then its govt's duty to educate them. how many of you- so called 'literate' voters also know and are aware of different aspects of this deal or any other laws, agreements or constitutional clauses involving weather internal or internal issues of importance. dont brag too much o literate indian. by knowing to read and write in some language does not make you literate, but sure, arrogant. sorry...
RE:Indian Democracy is a sham!
by sangineersha on Aug 29, 2007 05:32 PM Permalink
One should not underestimate the Voters whether educated or uneducated. Even so called educated r white collared criminals and so called uneducated are well behaved and with lot of common sense and intelligence, think about ur granny, or some other elderly in ur family who was not so educated but could still shower lot of wisdom to u. So rethink about waht u have written above.
Mr Sreenivastion is deplomate.if not the political parties are facing electorates who is facing electirate? Is the indian parliament is not a choice of electorates?Probably he is more wellversed american democratic syetem.He must remember that our system is better than american democratic system admitted by american press.There was no objection to any deal provided that soverignity is not affected. That point is not discussed by Mr Serinivasan.Question is why our negotiator fail to do so?Without reffering to this question ,why they are telling this is a best possible deal?Interestingly they are not even mentioning Dr Prasad"s (former chairman of atomic energy) Why??
RE:let the little man decide.
by george on Aug 29, 2007 05:05 PM Permalink
The deal will produce 7% of our energy requirement for the next 40 years, provided India has a foreign policy congruent to US, halt further development of nuclear arsenal, and supports US in isolating new nuclear states(read Iran). its as simple as that... You don't have to be a nuclear scientist to understand this. If this is acceptable, everything is fine. The complete text of the 123 agreement, the Hyde act and the nuclear deal with china is available here. http://www.xrl.us/4jp8
