A few hours before the Left rejected the deal, China had threatened that %u201Ceither the Indo-US nuclear deal or the Manmohan Singh government will fall%u201D. Was there any telepathy?
If any country had made the observation that China did, the Left and its camp followers would have been up in arms. The remark would have been considered interference in India%u2019s domestic affairs. Yet, there was not even a whimper in the Left quarters, much less criticism. They felt important by giving repeated statements about how India%u2019s sovereignty would be circumscribed if the deal went through.
RE:RE:Why Commies r silent on China.........
by vikas sethi on Aug 25, 2007 07:17 PM Permalink
It is from the very respected Indian journalist, writer and MP Kuldeep Nayar's article.
RE:Why Commies r silent on China.........
by vikas sethi on Aug 25, 2007 08:25 PM Permalink
Who am I to enlighten you, Mr Prasad.All I know is that we are tremendously short on power. We have our limitations in hydel power generation, solar & wind energy alone is not solution. We r looking at all options of energy including gas from iran & other countries. N energy is only one of the many options but is an imp & clean option.India is onto a fast industrial growth. New industries need tremendous amount of power. Every MW of coal based power is adding tremendously to the green house gases and global warming. If you add another 25000MW of coal based thermal power plant to the existing capacity, this country will become unlivable with pollution. You hv only heard of acid rains& not witnessed it. The sulphur dioxide & trioxide from power plants will cause acid rains. China has already started facing the problem. The only choice available to India is go for Nuclear power plants in a big way. In France, almost 80% of all the electricity needs are being met through Nuclear power plants. We also have to do it. For that we need the 123 agreement. N energy is clean energy & is the way to proceed in future. The only way to progress is to move forward not backward.We have made progress in N field in last 30 yrs but our progress is limited in the face of international denial of technology. We can get reactors from Russia & France but the fuel to run these reactors is the problem. We have made headway in indegenious Thorium reactors but this is not yet proved or perfected.
RE:RE:Why Commies r silent on China.........
by vikas sethi on Aug 25, 2007 08:55 PM Permalink
India has the right to test under this Ndeal but then after the test, US has the right to impose sanctions. That means our reactors go without fuel. We have to be prepared for that. If we are prepared with our own source of fuel by that time, fine. Go ahead and test. But if we r not it will be a disaster to go for a nuclear test because the billions of dollars invested in the nuclear power plant will idle and the industries we set up that depend on the power from these nuclear power plants will starve. So, before we test, we have to ensure fuel from indigenous sources or friendly countries like Russia & US will help in this as per the Ndeal. If we decide that we do not want American technology now for keeping an option to test (which we may not do in the next ten or twenty years), we will starve from lack of power from today itself. We have to make a choice. V must realise, India cannot remain in isolation in the world if we want to rise. the N Deal does not allow inspections to US but IAEA. This is followed by every country who hs not signed NPT. This is international law & all countries comply these incld. Russia/china.U must realise that the world cannot change laws just to accomodate India. Yet this is precisely what is being done with NDeal.It favors India even when we hv not signed NPT. Remember, every negotiation involves an element of give & take.
RE:Why Commies r silent on China.........
by Lalatendu Deo on Aug 26, 2007 04:37 PM Permalink
Vikas, a long drawn arguement. All along I am also telling the same things.
But the most important part is as to how to resist the US if they think that some thing is against their interest. Then, no agreement would come their way. They have their interpretation for everything and that only stands.
All along we are thinking about the good points of the 123 Deal. But keeping a good goonda in home will not give you protection from rowdies in the street. the Goon may harm you. Some more rethinking are needed.
RE:RE:Why Commies r silent on China.........
by vikas sethi on Aug 25, 2007 08:38 PM Permalink
We will be self reliant only once our Thorium reactors come in force which is some yrs away (we have 30%of thorium reserves).But even this technology would require some (nominal) use of Plutonium for the initial cycle.The idea is to generate this from reproceesed fuel & use it in Thorium reactors. Hence, in Ndeal we insisted on reprocessing rights over the spent nuclear fuel so that we have enough Plutonium to run our Thorium reactors.We have only 0.8% of world Uranium reserves that cannot last long & serve both civilian & defence purpose. What do u propose to do once our Uranium reserves r exhausted??? Sit with folded hands & beg the world for relief & u expect the same countries to come to help u when u r weak & vulnerable. If US stops fuel supply, France & Russia will step in. But without the deal they 2cannot supply fuel to us, as is the case 2day.Even 2day, we r a energy deficient country & industry runs at 50% optimum capacity. Our needs 15-20-30 yrs hence would be mindboggling. If we do not hv Nfuel, we collapse under our own wt. Besides, we depend on OPEC (read muslim)countries for fuel & its negative environmental effects.Why should India put all eggs in 1 basket? India has conducted 2 nuclear tests in last 32 yrs. After 1998 tests we had a unilateral moratorium on testing that continues. We will test only if China/pak test. If either of them test, they too face international sanctions.Will they test is qstion mark. China depends on other nations for Nfuel.
RE:RE:Why Commies r silent on China.........
by vikas sethi on Aug 25, 2007 09:03 PM Permalink
If at all we do a nuclear test, N deal says US cannot immediately withdraw fuel but give 1year period (cooling period or a byepass or a way out). Also,US must 1st give reason. If reason is due to Pak/China tests then the US must take that into consideration.(If these two test then sanctions will apply on them also).If still US wants to withdraw then it makes alternative arrangements for India & cannot withdraw till other arrangements r made. Under the compulsions this is a good deal.What else do you want in it??? India needs tech from US and depends on it.US is also very dependent on India for many things. So costs of imposing sanctions on India will severely effect US too. It is not a 1 way street anymore. We actually increase the costs on US to impose sanctions.Like in 1998, they imposed sanctions & then backed off in ayear.China is major threat to US interests. For it, India acts as a countervailing force to China. Why then will it upset its applecart???
The N deal opens up dual use tech for use of ISRO, defence industry and Civilian nuclear section.
ISRO is handicapped due to denial of advanced technology(we made progress but the progress is limited and very slow to say the least.), our indigenious defence projects r stymied bcos we do not get dual use tech.our scientists r well qualified & we r all proud of them. They have done well with limitations.But with latest available tech to back their brains, they will come to world standards.
RE:RE:Why Commies r silent on China.........
by vikas sethi on Aug 25, 2007 09:06 PM Permalink
Now consider if we do not get N fuel. Our industry suffers or moves out of India. Our economic rise is stymied. China continues to rise bcoz it intelligently uses N fuel & other sources as well. There will be huge disparity between India & China much like IndoPak disparity at present. China will then outspend India in defence sector & will also prop up Pak. Is this not a security concern/threat for India??? BJP is aware of this hence it actually initiated the whole deal in its era. but 2day its opposition is a case of sour grapes. There is another perspective. US is tied down in War on Terror which will continue for another 10-15 yrs & ruin or harm its economic superiority. It will be so much dependent on India then, that actually India can dictate to them.They will need India more than we needing them. But 2day, we need the tech to grow.My contention to all those who oppose the deal is very simple and plain. If someone has already invented a circle, why should we waste time, money and effort to reinvent the same. Buy off the technology and then use our brains and money to move forward from there. We will reach up higher,faster and surer. We need to think of our growth and of our self interest.A ship is always safe at the shores or in the dockyard but that is not what it is built for. Let us show more confidence and belief in our own country and in its abilities.
RE:RE:Why Commies r silent on China.........
by vikas sethi on Aug 25, 2007 09:14 PM Permalink
In view of the above facts also it is imperative to compare Indian NDeal to the Chinese Ndeal with US. Read the comparison at
http://www.indianexpress.com/story/212219.html
To an impartial individual, it becomes apparent that we have a better deal. Should we complain or support the govt of India??? It is time we Indians move ahead from petty politics and party affiliations and think of India first and foremost.
RE:Why Commies r silent on China.........
by KPrasad on Aug 25, 2007 07:51 PM Permalink
Dont u see a contradiction in the views of Mr Nayyar? While he himself is opposed to the proposition of nuclear power, he castigates all others who are opposing the nuclear programme or the 123 deal ascribing motives. Does he want everybody to think in his line only and oppose the deal? I personally am not a great admirer of the CPM. But in this issue I think their point of argument is valid. They oppose the deal that, according to them, compromises our national sovereignity and independent nuclear programme. They oppose investing heavily in nuclear power at the cost of investments in other sources such as hydel and renewable. If at all the rulers think nuclear power is indispensable, indegenous development and research can be encouraged. Where do you pick holes in this argument? It seems to me a genuine argument. Kindly enlighten me.
RE:Why Commies r silent on China.........
by vikas sethi on Aug 25, 2007 07:36 PM Permalink
Knowledge grows by sharing. You are most welcome, Mr. Prasad.
RE:India NDeal better than Chinese Ndeal...........
by Raj on Aug 25, 2007 09:27 PM Permalink
rest of India cannot be fooled like the Bengalis/Keralites combine. All of them are well aware of the immense energy needs .There game is up....
