What is sovereignty? You cannot eat sovereignty. This treaty will cement close relation with USA further. When India was allied with commies, the growth rate was 2-3%. It has climbed to 9% after India embraced US. If we consolidate our ties further, in next fifteen years Indian per capita GDP will hit $10000. We will be just like western countries. Sovereignty does not matter. Look at Japan. US still occupy Okinawa. Their nuclear battle ships are stationed there. But it does not make any difference so far as ordinary Japanese are concerned. It is great to be US client state as UK, Germany, Italy, whole of Western Europe illustrate.
Also, communists do not believe in sovereignty. They believe in international brotherhood of the proletariat.
This deal is not good for india in the long term. India can get nuclear energy without this nuclear deal. We have the technological knowhow and the deposits (thorium and uranium) within India and that can be used for our energy needs without getting into this deal at all. The re is no value addition in getting to this deal because this deal restricts our nuclear testing ability . We dont have to compromise that to get this deal!. If we stand our ground we will get this deal in OUR OWN TERMS!. All the congress government has to do is show some backbone. Btw, this is not a capitalism vs. communist issue or bjp nationalist issue just because they are opposing this deal. Whether whoever opposes or supports this deal the issue here is this deal is not good for India in this format!.
RE:No need for this deal!.
by Batman on Aug 24, 2007 12:48 AM Permalink
If we do not get this deal we ll spend another 10 years in the dark without electricity till we have the technology to generate power by using Thorium. We still do not have the final tech to generate power through these Fast Breeder Reactors. We should take this deal to generate power and speed up the research on fast breeder reactors so that as soon as we have the production capabalities using thorium based technology we can just stop importing uranium. But right now we need Uranium based tech so that we get power and we are nt left behind and go back to the dark ages... and yah this deal is only civilian so no need to worry abt military nuclear instalations. n we are free to test nuclear weapons. the Hyde Act is just a cosmetic effect by the US government to shut the mouths of the Non proliferation hawks in washington who are opposing this deal tooth n nail... The US understand it has no leverage to stop India from testing weapons and it dosnt want to risk billions of dollars of investment by imposing nay sanctions. remember 1998 aftre the tests the imposed sanctions but had to bite the dust and remove sanctions after realizing it was their industries that were suffering.. so be cool and just use this deal to the maximum and do not let the commies Headless Chickens take India back to the dark ages.
RE:No need for this deal!.
by Batman on Aug 24, 2007 12:55 AM Permalink
Only 2 nations in the whole world are opposing this Indo US nuclear deal, China and Pakistan.... China has the Most Favored NAtion status with the US and opposes the same status for India. China has got a similar nuclear deal with the US bt opposes the deal with India... Jyoiti Basu of CPM protested against Indian defence againt chinese invasion of india in 1962 and was jailed by Nehru for anti India activities. Basu went on to become the CM of bengal. Commies never condemn Chinese claim of arunachal Pradesh whn the people themselves want top be part of India.. CPM opposes Indian nuclear progress bt has no problems with Chinas nuclear arming of pakistan whch are targeted towards India and supports iranian nuclear program. The communists oppose ndustrialiazation in India and went on killing 100's of poor farmers in Singur and Nandigram tryin to grab farmers fertile land for setting up industries. Commies are ruling bengal for more than 30 years now and have reduced bengal from being the finest to being the poorest.. Only big industry in commie ruled states bangal and kerala are trade unions and their number one product is strikes and bandh. Commies vociferously opposed introduction of computers by rajiv gandhi, commies cald computers as evil and against national interest. Commies neva condemned chinese invasion of India in 1962. Commies do not recognize aksai chin in kashmir as part of india. And yes the commies got a new name now "Headless Chickens and Spineless Morons".
If you do not develop nuclear energy you will continue to be dependent on fossil fuel which will perpetually keep you vulnerable to the pressures of oil producing countries of middle east. You will not be able to tackle Islamic terrorism and Pakistan will be able to keep you mum in different International fora. If you go ahead with the N-deal then even if US stops supplying you N-fuel when you go for a nuclear test, at least Russia will be able to supply you the N-fuel. Presently even Russia is not able to supply us N-fuel. Killing this deal will only isolate us even further and only Pakistan and China will benefit.
RE:Nuclear Deal
by Batman on Aug 24, 2007 12:42 AM Permalink
If we use coal and oil we ll have to develop new technology to somehow direct all the carbon dioxide into the houses of medha patkar and allcommie traitors and all commie supporters so we dont have global warming... Nw who well develop this technology????
RE:Nuclear Deal
by Shadow on Aug 24, 2007 12:41 AM Permalink
We can develop nuclear energy without US help!. We dont have to compromise on our nuclear testing rights to get this deal!.
RE:Nuclear Deal
by amitabh kumar on Aug 24, 2007 12:54 AM Permalink
Although that is not a bad idea. Probably doing away with this deal may not have serious impact either. If the government starts funding the indigenous program then we can develop thorium based N-power infrastructure. It probably is just a matter of funds. Though if you import N-fuel from US then also you will have to spend. So probably the deal may not be necessary.
RE:Nuclear Deal
by Batman on Aug 24, 2007 12:56 AM Permalink
its nt just a matter of funds its also a matter of time. today indian industry is suffering due to huge power cuts. we cant afford to loose time. if our economy stops where will the money to fund thorium research come from. Take this deal n put thorium research on da fast track
RE:Nuclear Deal
by amitabh kumar on Aug 24, 2007 01:09 AM Permalink
Research on thorium is at quite an advanced stage. In fact as I remember they have already have tasted success. After all the speed with which you can develop uranium based plants will entirely depend upon how fast you can fund those programs. If you spend a fraction of that amount on thorium based plants then you will not need to be dependent upon US or even Russia. I think the answer to India's power problems is Thorium. We have huge reserves of thorium which can last 1000s of years. Besides uranium based programs are always more expensive.
RE:Nuclear Deal
by Batman on Aug 24, 2007 01:17 AM Permalink
where did u get this info. give us proof of this. show us the facts. if we can build thorium reators for production 2 day thn we dont need this deal agreed. bt we dont have the advanced technology yet n cant wait 4ever.. we have been hearing of ur claims of advance stage since the last 10 years now
RE:RE:Nuclear Deal
by Batman on Aug 24, 2007 12:42 AM Permalink
There is no compromise on testing. We are free to test. Read the deal b4 u bark like the commies headless Chicken
Dear Sir , I would like to say humbly please madam donot exploit us further. You have harmed us tremendously by taking populist issues without any benefit to nation or its cityzen. (Narmadaproject, Tehri yojana etc ). Every deal or project has brightside and dark side . You people always have been criticising by taking negative aspect of any issue , hence remained always in lime light in media which is your obscession. We should take pragmatic view , renewable energy is to be exploited there is nodoubt. But to have nuclear energy which does not causes global waming, is also a necessity of the day . Our growth is fast and responsility of one billion people compels us to use all available means of energy to be exploited to maintain the growth and generate employment which is much bigger issue to solve . We are poor country and that too made further poor by our politician who allowed us to wait in que for telephone , gas , rotten cars, scooters,even sugar and kerosine etc. Madam with great difficulty we got rid off those things . Please donot push towards that again let India and Indians grow towards the prosparity. There are few problems with the deal but advantages are much more. What kind of sovereignity you talk , do you have it now ,not at all . we will be only sovereign state when we get economic independence which will be brought by pragmatic policeis and deals like these . These very people shouted with wide mouth when nuclear bombs were detonated and now they
Who the hell are these mf's Medha Patkar, Aruna Roy and Sandeep Pandey ???????? Headless bu*s. Do you even know what "nuclear energy" is???? Medha, Aruna and Sandeep, dont talk sh*t about stuff you have no f**k*n clue about. And who the hell made you the "people's representative". Go get a life bung holes!
RE:What the....?
by alhad sathe on Aug 24, 2007 12:38 AM Permalink
This Medha Patkar is probably same one who is against Narmada dam. She and Arundhati Roy are Commies of highest order and against anything good happening in India. They will harp how capitalism is bad and how rich suck blood from poor. But actually Commies are draculas of today. They have slaughtered millions under regime of Lenin, Stalin and Mao and they will do so in India, if they come to power. Aruna Roy may be alias name for Arundhati Roy, because she is coward Commie. I don't know who is Sandeep Panday? But who cares.
Okay, i am finished reading the article, it was a quick scan on their rhetoric... I wonder, if it was an original article paid by rediff, or from independent sourced media.. Anyway, Had a good laugh on these joker brigade of pro Pakistanis, and Pro chinese... And what? Who nominated them for representives of People movement? Here is one freaking lefty movement sign? Sickle and the hammer! Hello If BJP didn't care about USA, and the rest of world, and tested the nuclear explosion, and that was in 1998, when India was much weaker, Do you think it will be any different next time around.. Plus, Why should lefties be heard now, when they were against Nuclear tests in 1998? Bankrupt left... In their 3 yrs of UPA alliance, Congress is perhaps in a position for first time to checkmate the Left, and give them heavy blow... Yes, Congress depend on left, but congress was almost a dead party, before they were returned to power in 2004.. Left has been corned, as they have replaced the barking dogs slogan with barking communists.. Congress party has an edge to rein supreme, and is certainily in checkmate position...
RE:Okay
by Batman on Aug 24, 2007 12:34 AM Permalink
Realizing that the Indians were weak, as well as busy over neighborhood disputes with Pakistan and Bangladesh, the Chinese were the first to make a move in the Indian Ocean. Ten years ago they established a listening post off the coast of Myanmar, to monitor Indian naval communications and the sea-lanes in the Bay of Bengal leading to Singapore. Out of nowhere, China decided five years ago to build the Pakistani port of Gawadr to help Pakistan acquire a new naval facility opposite the Straits of Hormuz. It was a masterstroke that has tied Pakistan to the Chinese sphere of influence for a long time. Also, China has clinched a deal to establish a submarine dock facility in the Maldives in the Arabian Sea, so close to India's western coast. India has good reason to be upset with these developments.
Those who think we will become subservient to USA forget 4 facts:
1. When Afghans and Iraqis are not subjugated despite occupation, how can Indians be subjugated because of this deal.
2. Deal can be cancelled anytime.
3. We can buy reactors from France and Japan.
4. Would you rather be subjugated by China who still has our land and uses Pak and Bangladesh in their proxy war. You are worried about USA: first correct problems in your own backyard or else there will not be any India left for the US to do a nuke deal with or for us Indians to live in.
aunty medha, arundhati et al...welcome on board; in the last few weeks, I have been wondering, where were U guys at... finally surfaced... are you scintisiss when U say india has vast wind,sloar energies? if so in last 60 years, what were our idotic scientis doing? launching diwali firecracker rocktets to space?70% of india faces acute power shortages, and U want us to suffer when our idiots do the research...based on what U said, it is not nuclear power alone that is causing pollution- automobiles, air planes, computers we use, news papers we need, food materials we produce all contribute...so shd we ban them also and live the life of our ancestors in 100bc? U brainless morons, stop preaching as if U achieved something...empty vessels make noise, people like vivekananda, mother theresa had better impact of people...but they never craved for stupid attention like U...
RE:welcome
by avinash kadam on Aug 24, 2007 01:03 AM Permalink
Yes ! I fully agree to Mr. patriot and Mr Prem Chandra There are theoretical solutions and pragmatic solutions to the problem People who dont know the knowhow abouts the energy issue will say theoretically it is possible to draw enrgy from this and that source. Who told these jokers that they represent peoples ? are they not same as politicians ? We dont need these people also. We need to have our national interest ion priority. We have not received any thing due to our non aligned movement leadership. If we want to be global players and want to exctract some share for our fellow countrymens then we to obey "Chanakya niti" and play active part in global politics. What we have got being Non Aligned Country Still we are the most sufferer in terms of Terrorism. Be brave and come out of that mind set now.
What's up with the above columnists... Did their lefty media didn't leave them some space to bark, that they had to come and pollute rediff.... Regardless of the merit of their article, and what they had to this time around, i am still non-forgiving about these anti-Indian, pro pakistanis, pro Chineses, and as Modi described them "5 stars activists from Delhi" joker brigade... Funny thing is that these people are pro chinese, and pro pakistanis, but still accept their Checks in Green dollars? No Anti-Americanism there? hehehehe O well, i am gonna go, and read the article now, as i like to be informed about every single force in indian politics..
RE:The joker brigade
by rana mitra on Aug 24, 2007 12:30 AM Permalink
No body is anti Indian. But no body wants to be stooge either! Don't forget scientists from IISC bangalore are not idiots nor anti Indian! They helped India in making a nuclear power.Why we will import Uranium (when we dont have sufficient U reserve!). Why don't we try to utilise our own Thorium reserve. The answer is in that case there will be no deal, no cut money, no under table money transfer.
RE:RE:The joker brigade
by Batman on Aug 24, 2007 12:31 AM Permalink
If we do not get this deal we ll spend another 10 years in the dark without electricity till we have the technology to generate power by using Thorium. We still do not have the final tech to generate power through these Fast Breeder Reactors. We should take this deal to generate power and speed up the research on fast breeder reactors so that as soon as we have the production capabalities using thorium based technology we can just stop importing uranium. But right now we need Uranium based tech so that we get power and we are nt left behind and go back to the dark ages... and yah this deal is only civilian so no need to worry abt military nuclear instalations. n we are free to test nuclear weapons. the Hyde Act is just a cosmetic effect by the US government to shut the mouths of the Non proliferation hawks in washington who are opposing this deal tooth n nail... The US understand it has no leverage to stop India from testing weapons and it dosnt want to risk billions of dollars of investment by imposing nay sanctions. remember 1998 aftre the tests the imposed sanctions but had to bite the dust and remove sanctions after realizing it was their industries that were suffering.. so be cool and just use this deal to the maximum and do not let the commies Headless Chickens take India back to the dark ages.
RE:RE:RE:The joker brigade
by rana mitra on Aug 24, 2007 12:36 AM Permalink
US sells F16 to Pakistan also the same F16 to India. They are not saint don't argue like US congressmen!
RE:RE:RE:RE:The joker brigade
by Batman on Aug 24, 2007 12:40 AM Permalink
they didnt even put a gun on our head to buy this nuclear deal. we are buyin it coz we need it
RE:RE:RE:The joker brigade
by rana mitra on Aug 24, 2007 12:52 AM Permalink
You got the point and so is the objection!! Us is not going to sell this free of cost. US nuclear lobby is going to make millions out of it! Why don't we develop our own technology tp reprocess Thorium?? To develop that technology we need will and intention or it will another failed project like light combat aircraft(We are more interested to buy it from US, Russia or france).Simply importing technology that to energy technology will not solve our problem. We need to develop own technology. Don't forget our scientists have build atom bomb (unlike Pakistan) without any ouside support. We should have faith on them. help
RE:The joker brigade
by Batman on Aug 24, 2007 01:00 AM Permalink
y will the US supply for free. If u come to me for a JOB and if i tell u i ll give u job in ma company bt i won pay u will u take uop the Job. or u ll go back n put ur own factory coz am nt payin u money for the job. u came for the job coz u r nt rich so no question of u puttin up a new factory. so u just sit home n die. u got no choice
RE:RE:The joker brigade
by rana mitra on Aug 24, 2007 12:42 AM Permalink
Because once you spend million dollar in developing the nuclear power plants with Uranium reprocessing technology( not thorium !!) you will have to buy it from NSG countries. You have no option left out. It would have been much prudent to develop thorium processing plants with indigenous technology as we have huge reserve of Thorium!! This was the arguement raised by scientists from IISC Bangalore and from Bhaba Atomic research Institute!!! They are not fool after all
RE:The joker brigade
by Batman on Aug 24, 2007 12:47 AM Permalink
Yes u r right we have no option left but to buy uranium frm NSg. its nt bcoz we are fools n we have too much money to spend bt bcoz we just dont have uranium resources. tarapur reactor has just 2 more years of fuel left. Abt thorium we still dont have the tech to star producing power using thorium on a large scale. we shuld take this deal so our immediate requirements are served and speed up thorium research so that as soon as we have thorium technology we just stop using uranium technology... Bt for our scientists to work they too need electricity they wont be able to work under the lamps and our economy needs power whch will provide money for research as well...
RE:RE:The joker brigade
by rana mitra on Aug 24, 2007 12:43 AM Permalink
Because once you spend million dollar in developing the nuclear power plants with Uranium reprocessing technology( not thorium !!) you will have to buy it from NSG countries. You have no option left out. It would have been much prudent to develop thorium processing plants with indigenous technology as we have huge reserve of Thorium!! This was the arguement raised by scientists from IISC Bangalore and from Bhaba Atomic research Institute!!! They are not fool after all
RE:The joker brigade
by Batman on Aug 24, 2007 12:54 AM Permalink
rana y do u bark like commies without knwin facts. y do u have this fear psychosis whn it come to the US. r u nt confident that we can be so powerful that nobody can dictate terms to us. yyyyyyyyyyyy
RE:The joker brigade
by Batman on Aug 24, 2007 12:51 AM Permalink
We are free to develop thorium technology.. who is stopin us. did u read ne clause in the 123 agreement whch prohibits thorium research
RE:RE:The joker brigade
by Batman on Aug 24, 2007 01:02 AM Permalink
we ll have both and will gradually phase out uranium reactors once we use it to the fullest. bt if we don use uranium nw our economy will suffer and then there won be ne money for thorium reserch
RE:RE:The joker brigade
by rana mitra on Aug 24, 2007 01:00 AM Permalink
If we develop thorium reprocessing technology what will happen to nuclear plants, running on Uranium processing technology???After all thorium processing units are totally different from the former. You have to close them after spending billion dollar in buikding it!!. In that hypothetical situation there is no point in running nuclear power plants with Uranium reprocessing technology along with thorium processing plants as we ourselve has plenty of Thorium reserve and will not have to import Uranium from US and Australia!!! This will never happen and we will continue to import Uranium as this will suite political and financial interests of so called politicians
RE:The joker brigade
by mr on Aug 24, 2007 12:47 AM Permalink
If US tells no software agreement w/ India. All Indians go back to India. What do you do for getting Gas?
RE:The joker brigade
by deepak on Aug 24, 2007 12:25 AM Permalink
I do not lick anyone's "Po American Po" (whatever that mean)... I am just watching the political game unrivaling in Indian Politics.. And hey if medha parka is against the deal, this by dafaul puts me on the opposition end... Certainly would not wanna be in a company of 5 stars activists from Delhi... Peace now?
There is not just congress, and the left, There is BJP...
RE:The joker brigade
by Batman on Aug 24, 2007 12:30 AM Permalink
Only 2 nations in the whole world are opposing this Indo US nuclear deal, China and Pakistan.... China has the Most Favored NAtion status with the US and opposes the same status for India. China has got a similar nuclear deal with the US bt opposes the deal with India... Jyoiti Basu of CPM protested against Indian defence againt chinese invasion of india in 1962 and was jailed by Nehru for anti India activities. Basu went on to become the CM of bengal. Commies never condemn Chinese claim of arunachal Pradesh whn the people themselves want top be part of India.. CPM opposes Indian nuclear progress bt has no problems with Chinas nuclear arming of pakistan whch are targeted towards India and supports iranian nuclear program. The communists oppose ndustrialiazation in India and went on killing 100's of poor farmers in Singur and Nandigram tryin to grab farmers fertile land for setting up industries. Commies are ruling bengal for more than 30 years now and have reduced bengal from being the finest to being the poorest.. Only big industry in commie ruled states bangal and kerala are trade unions and their number one product is strikes and bandh. Commies vociferously opposed introduction of computers by rajiv gandhi, commies cald computers as evil and against national interest. Commies neva condemned chinese invasion of India in 1962. Commies do not recognize aksai chin in kashmir as part of india. And yes the commies got a new name now "Headless Chickens and Spineless Morons".
RE:RE:The joker brigade
by Batman on Aug 24, 2007 12:23 AM Permalink
U have always been and will always remaina gulam. For u India is still not independent. Why do u have this fear Psychosis in you mind. Why do u always thnk of progress and development as slavery and givin up sovereignity. Thats bcoz u have this permanent inferiority comples in you. You beleive india will and shuld always remain a third world country. u r a coward and fear the whites and beleive the whites are superior and you cannot stand upto them. Bt we the new young resurgent and confident will prove u cowards wrong. All u have said in your post is wrong. U havent even read the 123 agreement. We are buyin nuclear tech fromm the US so we can generate power for our economic growth. The US cannot dictate terms to us. But rodents like u commies will neva understand that and will always be underdeveloped and cowards... shame on u to still thnk of India becoming a slave nation. Even after 60 years u dont have the guts to face the world as a great power. We dont need people like u. Go to chian to ur masters commies rodents.
RE:RE:RE:The joker brigade
by deepak on Aug 24, 2007 12:32 AM Permalink
Batman
What r u burping.. I have only commented on the columnists in above article... Stop burping, and listen... When BJP was not afraid of test nuclear explosion, and in fact, at time, when India was much weaker, what will stop it in future... USA is a hurdle for India.. Without USA, we cannot even go to Russia, and Ask for nuclear fuel.. Understand the complextity of Nuclear world establishment.. We are certainily negotiating with USA, and by now, enough people have come on record to send conflicting messages as to what the actual deal is... The vogue language is used.
RE:RE:RE:The joker brigade
by rana mitra on Aug 24, 2007 12:34 AM Permalink
yes nuclear scientists who are opposing it are Gulam. And bush blessed politicians are free citizens!!! Come on don't talk chlidish. Its a debate and America dis that in Congress. But we being the largest democracy avoiding the parliament!
RE:RE:RE:RE:The joker brigade
by Batman on Aug 24, 2007 12:38 AM Permalink
i thnk you belong to this traitor group called commies.
Its an open secret that the Communist Party Of India has an Alliance with the Communists frm China. The Commies in India get direct orders frm the chinese embassy in delhi whch has been proved by the intelligence bureau and RAW. The current opposition is a direct responce of the opposition of the chinese to this deal. It has been well documneted that the commies in India owe their loyalty to their chinese masters. The IB has credible evidence of the orders issued by the chinese to the Lefts in India to not to let this deal pass by at any cost.
RE:The joker brigade
by Vishnu Sharma on Aug 24, 2007 12:52 AM Permalink
For a THORIUM REACTOR> India has a so-called "three-stage nuclear program". In the first stage, plutonium is created in its pressurized heavy water reactors (PHWRs) and extracted by reprocessing. In the second stage, fast breeder reactors (FBRs) use this plutonium in 70-percent MOX-fuel to breed uranium-233 in a thorium blanket around the core. In the final stage, the FBR's use thorium-232 and produce uranium-233 for other reactors.
The first stage has been realized with India's 10 nuclear power plants. The second stage is only realized by a small experimental fast breeder reactor (13 MW), at Kalpakkam. This reactor has a history with a lot of problems (as has been the case with the 10 nuclear reactors). This reactor is on top of a list of DANGEROUS reactors in the country, according to a safety assessment of India's Atomic Energy Regulatory Board. The reactor has a lack of safety measures and cooling systems.
We could have another Chernobyl is SOUTH INDIA and we DO NOT WANT THAT.
Which is why we need to go for the deal TO UPGRADE OUR SAFETY MEASURES AND MAKE IT ON PAR WITH WORLD STANDARDS which is the same as standards they have in the USA.
This deal gives us the freedom to walk out of it with one years notice. In fact once we perfect the art of thorium processing the USA will themselves come to us and we can export the technology to USA to $$$ Also once this is done, we will export thorium to USA.
